[JeepBB]

People actually believe the runtime in bb10 is faster than native Android phones. Where did that rumor even originate?

Given there are posters here who have "Better Android Than Android" in their sigs, a claim that BB10's Android runtime is faster than 70% of genuine Android devices is par for the course.

Incidentally, did you realise that 97.4% of statistics are made-up on the spot to prove a point?

[Ankit RS]

Have an issue, go to the Apple Store and get a free battery or whatever. They have great support. Blackberry doesn't. Their support channels trump the benefit of a removable battery.

You can crank your iPhone and have a new one in minutes (like a friend of mine this week) without dealing with Asurion or some other insurance company. That's a Competitive advantage.

Also, Apple has great services with which BlackBerry cannot compete.

Android has expandable and actionable notifications.

Blackberry has no Flickr app. No apps from Google or Microsoft. Almost none from Adobe (PS Touch/Express, GroupPix, Revel). There are a ton of apps missing. They don't have most apps most consumers use. Stop it.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

While there's no arguing that Apple's service is better than what BlackBerry offers, it doesn't make iPhones better. The fact that you need to go the apple store for something as silly as a dead battery issue isn't really good thing; that they offer you a refurbished device is a good thing, but again that's because the iPhone doesn't have a removable battery, which in case of BlackBerry would be a simple case of putting another battery in less than a minute, rather than going all the way to a store. I think it is in no way better to waste your time travelling to a store when the problem can be solved in under 10 seconds by simply replacing the battery. So, as far a battery issues are concerned, no the channels do not, and cannot, trump the advantages of having a removable battery.

Also, you only get a new (or refurbished) replacement if your iPhone is within the warranty period. That applies to almost any phone. Although, this warranty period is longer for iPhones. So, it is not an iPhone exclusive advantage.

As far as great services go, fetch an answer that could even compete with Blackberry's messenger service, or the in-built BlackBerry Link service that allows you to directly access your pc/mac over cellular network without the need of a third party app, or the BlackBerry Internet Services for BBOS. Zilch for Apple.

Actionable notifications are in fact better on bb10, now, than any other platform. Reply to a bbm without even leaving your current app or dragging down the notification centre on Android or iPhone. I think you can't.

Apps are Blackberry's pain point, and certainly no match to what Apple offers in terms of fancy apps. Although, there are all the Primary apps that are needed. There's no Flickr, yes. But that doesn't stop me from doing the more common, and much needed on a day-to-day basis tasks like sharing via Bluetooth. Or NFC.

Ohwait. So much so for image sharing, and you can't even share a picture without a third party app or a data plan on an iPhone? That is so cool, right? Right. I guess that's what most consumers want. Because, "it's cool no?"
However, the lack of needed apps is a legit concern. But rest of the stuff is simply blind hatred or bashing. My choice of device may not always be suitable for you, but at least make valid points to support the argument.


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[Graz]

Z30 has a removable battery? Isn't this topic about the Z30?

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[iN8ter]

While there's no arguing that Apple's service is better than what BlackBerry offers, it doesn't make iPhones better. The fact that you need to go the apple store for something as silly as a dead battery issue isn't really good thing; that they offer you a refurbished device is a good thing, but again that's because the iPhone doesn't have a removable battery, which in case of BlackBerry would be a simple case of putting another battery in less than a minute, rather than going all the way to a store. I think it is in no way better to waste your time travelling to a store when the problem can be solved in under 10 seconds by simply replacing the battery. So, as far a battery issues are concerned, no the channels do not, and cannot, trump the advantages of having a removable battery.

I'm sorry, but what does a removeable battery have to do with it. Is the Z30's battery embedded or not? Apple's service is simply better, and it is, in fact, a selling point. People like products that they know have 1st party stores (Apple Store, Microsoft Store) down the street/downtown where they can get 1st class support for said product.

Also, you only get a new (or refurbished) replacement if your iPhone is within the warranty period. That applies to almost any phone. Although, this warranty period is longer for iPhones. So, it is not an iPhone exclusive advantage

You can get Apple Care and by the time it expires you're getting a new phone anyways, since you'll be off contract (not counting if you use a Jump plan or something similar, in which case you can upgrade twice a year if you just trade the device in which means you'll literally never be out of warranty - ever..

You also have to factor in whether other devices are still covered by Manufacturer warranty, even if you have insurance. Insurance does not cover everything. Nothing does. But Apple Care is superior to normal insurance. That is why it exists, to give a better alternative.

As far as great services go, fetch an answer that could even compete with Blackberry's messenger service, or the in-built BlackBerry Link service that allows you to directly access your pc/mac over cellular network without the need of a third party app, or the BlackBerry Internet Services for BBOS. Zilch for Apple.

Doesn't seem to be working too hot on iOS and Android devices. iMessage + FaceTime works even better between Apple devices, and Hangouts works as well if not better between iOS and Android devices. No offense, but BBM hasn't been a selling point for years now. It isn't even a factor, anymore. Messaging services are commodity.

However, look at it in a different way... Take, for example, photo sharing in BBM. It has nothing similar to what you get in Hangouts where the images are automatically added to a Private Google Photo Album where you can View, Like, Comment on them outside of the messaging app. That's innovating and taking things a step further, and it would not have been as easily done/possible without Google's services like Google Photos, which sits on top of Google Drive. Apple utilizes iCloud on the back-end for media sharing in iMessage, which is why it doesn't have BBM's ******** 6MB attachment limit and you don't have to "Request" a high resolution photo...

Apple has iCloud integrated in all their platforms, so the need for Link is largely Nil.

Samsung has Link for their devices. Trust me, that is not a selling point to a consumer. Install more bloatware on your PC to access stuff you can simply put on SkyDrive/Drive/Shovel to iCloud and get via the (1st party) apps on your phone? Thanks, but no thanks. Also requires you to have your PC on at all times, which can damage your PC - I have had Notebook PC display inverters go out from keeping them running like a desktop machine like that. They are not designed to be used that way.

Actionable notifications are in fact better on bb10, now, than any other platform. Reply to a bbm without even leaving your current app or dragging down the notification centre on Android or iPhone. I think you can't.

I didn't say it was the same. I said these things exist on Android. Facebook Chat Heads and Tango Fast Chat are two clear example of this being done (and looking a lot better than on BB10). The APIs to do this is in the Android platform. It is just that no developers have seen a need to implement this. Developers like Microsoft have even removed features simply to streamline the platform, features that hardly anyone used in the OS. Having a better user experience is sometimes better than throwing countless features at the user. We all know where the feature fetish users have gone...

Apps are Blackberry's pain point, and certainly no match to what Apple offers in terms of fancy apps. Although, there are all the Primary apps that are needed. There's no Flickr, yes. But that doesn't stop me from doing the more common, and much needed on a day-to-day basis tasks like sharing via Bluetooth. Or NFC.

You're spinning it.

There is no Flickr. There is no SkyDrive. There is no OneNote. There is no Coach's Eye/UberSense/Dartfish Express. There is no Photoshop Touch, Photoshop Express, GroupPix, or Revel. There is no Camera Awesome. There is no GroupMe. There are no Google Apps (period). There is no Microsoft RD Client (1st party). No Instagram. No Netflix. No Snapchat.

I can go on and on. What is your definition of a "Primary App?" Or, did you mean "Primary App (((In My Opinion)))..."???

Apple has AirDrop, so I'm not sure why you're talking about BT and NFC sharing. AirDrop is superior, as is Wi-Fi Direct compared to NFC and *especially* NFC, which is quite clunky from a usability perspective (especially if both people have their phones in an Otterbox, ever tried that?! Lol).

Also, I have never shared anything over BT except one time when I tried to do a video and quit the transfer when I realized it would take 2 hours to do (same video transferred in < 2 minutes over WiFi Direct, BTW). I have never shared anything over NFC except when I tried S Beam and even then the transfer is over WiFi Direct, not NFC. NFC is only used for pairing (which I could have done just as quickly with WiFi Direct since I had to walk across the room to tap the phones together). I also had to remove the case off my phone for the NFC to connect properly, because it is very sensitive to obstructions between the devices. Neither of those qualify as "important" day to day tasks, when you can simply send an email, iMessage, Hangouts Message, MMS Message or whatever and attach the same data without the inconvenience of Pairing and Distance requirements when using those protocols. Get real.

Ohwait. So much so for image sharing, and you can't even share a picture without a third party app or a data plan on an iPhone? That's is so cool, right? Right. I guess that's what most consumers want. Because, "it's cool no?"

Incorrect. Shared Photo Streams - and you don't need an iOS device to access them. It also does Video. iCloud, IIRC, is a 1st party service on iOS. Photo Streams can be Created and Managed from OSX PCs, iOS Devices, and Windows PCs. They can be access from all those + Apple TV. This is an example of a company utilizing their services infrastructure to provide value to the user. Apple calls it "iCloud Photo Sharing" (despite the fact that it does Video as well): https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=LjOPyFFO

P.S. You can also share documents via iCloud, and yes they are accessible from non-Apple devices.

Another example is how Google Utilized Google Drive as a basis for things like Google Photos, while extending that further and using Google Photos as a platform for photo sharing within the Hangouts experience... Blackberry can't do that, cause their services infrastructure is not set up to facilitate that, while competitors like Microsoft (i.e. Share via SkyDrive in Outlook.com, for example), Apple, and Google are well set up for innovating in those ways.

However, lack of needed apps is a legit concern. But rest of the stuff is simply blind hatred or bashing. My choice of device may not always be suitable for you, but at least make valid points to support the argument.


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I've made valid points. You're just complaining because you don't like it. How is that blind hatred? Half of what you wrote, you clearly don't know much about. You're not even aware that you can share Photos on iOS (or Android, or Windows Phone) utilizing 1st party services with no need for a 3rd party app.

BBM is a third party app on any platform other than Blackberry, as will be BBM Channels. And given BB's marketshare and consumers general preference for integrated services I think it's a bit of a stretch to use it as a selling point or even claim it's on par with competing 1st party offerings that offer better device integration, greater feature sets, and superior quality running on platforms with an order of a magnitude more marketshare than BB10, which doesn't even register in the charts.

[Ankit RS]

Z30 has a removable battery? Isn't this topic about the Z30?

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The topic is. The quoted post wasn't. My reply was in answer to that post comparing BB, Apple, and Android. Even otherwise, a Nexus 4/5 doesn't have a removable battery either. But that still doesn't make an iPhone better than Nexus (IMO).

[Graz]

The topic is. The quoted post wasn't. My reply was in answer to that post comparing BB, Apple, and Android. Even otherwise, a Nexus 4/5 doesn't have a removable battery either. But that still doesn't make an iPhone better than Nexus (IMO).

Fair enough.

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[cartoon2007]

And they will still have a home button and the same old worn out OS.
And I'm sure they will still sell millions, but if someone was seriously looking at BlackBerry over iPhone, the screen size wouldn't be the deciding factor.

+1

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[iN8ter]

The topic is. The quoted post wasn't. My reply was in answer to that post comparing BB, Apple, and Android. Even otherwise, a Nexus 4/5 doesn't have a removable battery either. But that still doesn't make an iPhone better than Nexus (IMO).

My post had nothing to do with a battery, NFC, or Bluetooth. It was about Apple's superior service (which you agreed with, while you drew up countless excuses and made veiled personal attacks) and their superior service portfolio (with which BB is not competitive). You also seem utterly clueless on how those services are integrated into the iPhone and other iOS devices (and even Windows PCs).

A ton of Android phones didn't have removeable batteries. The only people who care about that, is you and people like you. It's no different than the OEM-Fans arguing on Android Central when the One X/One released with an embedded battery and no SD Card and the S3/S4 launched with them.

I didn't care about it, but they were too emotionally invested to let it go and realize that the majority of purchasers don't even think about that stuff.

I wonder how long it will take BB to get their services in order, so their users can stop using BT Sharing, NFC, and a Removeable battery as an excuse for their poorer user experience even with others who use the same smartphone platform.

[IJKBB10]

Apple should hold a world record for being the only company to successfully launch the exact same phone product/phone five-six times in a row as a new product.

Iphone 3G = 3Gs, 4, 4s, 5, 5s

Epic win.

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Exactly like how they mention in this video Lmao!!!

[Ankit RS]

I'm sorry, but what does a removeable battery have to do with it. Is the Z30's battery embedded or not? Apple's service is simply better, and it is, in fact, a selling point. People like products that they know have 1st party stores (Apple Store, Microsoft Store) down the street/downtown where they can get 1st class support for said product.


You can get Apple Care and by the time it expires you're getting a new phone anyways, since you'll be off contract (not counting if you use a Jump plan or something similar, in which case you can upgrade twice a year if you just trade the device in which means you'll literally never be out of warranty - ever..

You also have to factor in whether other devices are still covered by Manufacturer warranty, even if you have insurance. Insurance does not cover everything. Nothing does. But Apple Care is superior to normal insurance. That is why it exists, to give a better alternative.


Doesn't seem to be working too hot on iOS and Android devices. iMessage + FaceTime works even better between Apple devices, and Hangouts works as well if not better between iOS and Android devices. No offense, but BBM hasn't been a selling point for years now. It isn't even a factor, anymore. Messaging services are commodity.

Apple has iCloud integrated in all their platforms.

Samsung has Link for their devices. Trust me, that is not a selling point to a consumer. Install more bloatware on your PC to access stuff you can simply put on SkyDrive and get via the app? Thanks, but no thanks.


I didn't say it was the same. I said these things exist on Android. Facebook Chat Heads nad Tango Fast Chat are two clear example of this being done (and looking a lot better than on BB10). The APIs to do this is in the Android platform.


You're spinning it.

There is no Flickr. There is no SkyDrive. There is no OneNote. There is no Coach's Eye/UberSense/Dartfish Express. There is no Photoshop Touch, Photoshop Express, GroupPix, or Revel. There is no Camera Awesome. There is no GroupMe. There are no Google Apps (period). There is no Microsoft RD Client (1st party). No Instagram. No Netflix. No Snapchat.

I can go on and on. What is you rdefinition of a "Primary App?" Or, did you mean "Primary App (((In My Opinion)))..."???


Incorrect. Shared Photo Streams - and you don't need an iOS device to access them. It also does Video. iCloud, IIRC, is a 1st party service on iOS. Photo Streams can be Created and Managed from OSX, iOS Devices, and Windows PCs. This is an example of a company utilizing their services infrastructure to provide value to the user.

Another example is how Google Utilized Google Drive as a basis for things like Google Photos, while extending that further and using Google Photos as a platform for photo sharing within the Hangouts experience... Blackberry can't do that, cause their services infrastructure is not set up to facilitate that, while competitors like Microsoft (i.e. Share via SkyDrive in Outlook.com, for example), Apple, and Google are well set up for innovating in those ways.


I've made valid points. You're just complaining.

1. "You can get Apple Care and by the time it expires you're getting a new phone anyways, since you'll be off contract"
It doesn't work like that around the world. You don't get contract-based phones strategy in every country. So, you will in fact be out of warranty in such places. I live in one such place, so the warranty period replacement is not an exclusive, universal advantage.

2. "Doesn't seem to be working too hot on iOS and Android devices...Messaging services are commodity.
Apple has iCloud integrated in all their platforms.
Samsung has Link for their devices... Install more bloatware on your PC to access stuff you can simply put on SkyDrive and get via the app? Thanks, but no thanks."

You evade the question for a lack of an answer. These are the services every user consumes in his/her daily usage of the phone, and implemented to better on bb. There's no bloatware involved. No equivalent to these on Apple; I've never used Samsung's link, can't comment.


3. "Facebook Chat Heads nad Tango Fast Chat are two clear example of this being done (and looking a lot better than on BB10). The APIs to do this is in the Android platform.
....
There is no Flickr. There is no SkyDrive. There is no OneNote. There is no Coach's Eye/UberSense/Dartfish Express. There is no Photoshop Touch, Photoshop Express, GroupPix, or Revel. There is no Camera Awesome. There is no GroupMe. There are no Google Apps (period). There is no Microsoft RD Client (1st party). No Instagram. No Netflix. No Snapchat."

The app issue like I said is valid. That said, all of what you're complaining about isn't true. Because:
a. I can access SkyDrive on my Z10 via a native app. In fact, I have all my cloud accounts (DropBox, Box, SkyDrive, Google Drive, Sugar Sync etc.) integrated into a single native app.

b. There's no OneNote. Would I like to have it? Yes. Am I hell bent on OneNote? No, I use Evernote to get the job done.

c. Assuming you meant Remote Desktop client, there are native apps.

d. I don't, and can't, have NetFlix. I still watch my fav. series. There are more than one ways to get something done. I am not fixated on one.

For all other apps (lack of 'em) you've mentioned, your point is valid for those who care to use them.

4. "...This is an example of a company utilizing their services infrastructure to provide value to the user."
If you look at the point that was made, this doesn't even make sense. Basic features are missing. That was the point. It's like what people here say "there are no native apps, but we have android ports."; you make the same argument here.

Primary Apps: Get my emails. Get my IMs. Get my cloud data. Social feeds (this is subjective, yes)

If you've chosen to dismiss advantages as redundant, and showcase shortcomings as highlights, that I believe is what constitutes complaining. Not being offensive. That's how it looks.

[iN8ter]

All I see are excuses and trying to downplay issues by saying you personally don't care. Gratz on that.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Ankit RS]

My post had nothing to do with a battery, NFC, or Bluetooth. It was about Apple's superior service (which you agreed with, while you drew up countless excuses and made veiled personal attacks) and their superior service portfolio (with which BB is not competitive). You also seem utterly clueless on how those services are integrated into the iPhone and other iOS devices (and even Windows PCs).

A ton of Android phones didn't have removeable batteries. The only people who care about that, is you and people like you. It's no different than the OEM-Fans arguing on Android Central when the One X/One released with an embedded battery and no SD Card and the S3/S4 launched with them.

I didn't care about it, but they were too emotionally invested to let it go and realize that the majority of purchasers don't even think about that stuff.

I wonder how long it will take BB to get their services in order, so their users can stop using BT Sharing, NFC, and a Removeable battery as an excuse for their poorer user experience even with others who use the same smartphone platform.

Firstly, there were no veiled personal attacks. None intended whatsoever. I did not see reasons for your certain comments, I said it so. Wasn't meant as an attack. Apologies if it looked like that.

Do I care about having a removable battery? Yes. Because I don't want to run to a store a mile away just because I can't replace a battery on my device.

Will I stop using BT or NFC? No. Just because one platform is not capable enough to support 'em doesn't mean others should stop using it. If Apple can't have NFC over that Aluminium body, that's a drawback of their system that can't get it in order. Others won't stop using it because Apple users can't. (Also, JIC, this is not meant to offend you. I don't even know what device you're using.)

Apple users have been the customers who've been buying the same thing over and over again, despite better options being available. Tell me about being emotionally invested. They've used iPhones without BT, NFC, and even without Shared Photo Streams, and conjured myriads of excuses for not using a better option.

Also, from what I understand, a veiled personal attack looks something like, and I quote you: "you and people like you."

Edit: To be fair, if your point was indeed just the services, and not limited to device features, like I said initially: 1) you're right. No one should have any issues accepting that Apple's consumer services are way better than any of the competitors. 2) just those services don't make a phone better.

I buy a 'device'. I don't mind a few work-arounds for a superior device.

[clickitykeys]

Do I care about having a removable battery? Yes. Because I don't want to run to a store a mile away just because I can't replace a battery on my device.

Exactly.

I, too, care about a removable battery. Just stepped out of the airport after two 8.5 hour flights and 5 hour layover. Had no need to look for those crowded charging stations at airports, and no occasion to grumble about airlines not having electric outlets.

I just pop a second battery into my Q10 and am good to go. Oh, and my second battery was free :-).

[Ankit RS]

Apparently "others" won't start using it because you are, leading one of the champions of NFC to hedge its bets:

Google Wallet Update for Android Removes NFC Requirement



This is an opinion with which those users disagree. You should be mindful of stating opinion as fact; it only weakens your argument if others think you can't tell the difference.

Also, when you're willing to take the time to offer comment after comment belittling entire groups of users, whether their choice is iOS, BB10, Android or Windows Phone, you really shouldn't criticize others for being "emotionally invested." It's both hypocritical and unnecessary.

My point is - as it was in the first comment - to make valid arguments with reasons. Personally, I like Windows phones, recently bought an Android, and love my BlackBerry. There's no belittling anyone, sir. I take time out for comments because I am passionate about any-discussion smartphone.

There's too much contradiction in reasons you choose for your opinion, and ones you discard in others'.

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[clickitykeys]

The only thing you need to grumble about is your travel itinerary.

Haha. I actually like the traveling part. The repeated charging part, not so much.

[BK_NY_RAY]

Lol some people are truly low life's. They choose to be corporate slaves for corporations they don't have anything to do with and for corporations who don't care about them at all.

[Fnen90]

Now I understand when people tell me that I'm years back with my z10...
The thing is about App World, apps, that's why everyone always ask "can u have this and that app"? ........Forget about specs for a second and think of that. it is what it is. 95% doesn't know that there's a Native app for Instagram such as iGrann.

[Ankit RS]

Really. Maybe it was someone else who posted this:



I'll paraphrase this by saying that, according to the above, you think that Apple users just aren't swift enough to realize they're buying the same thing over and over again. That sure seems belittling to me, but feel free to clarify.



Exactly. Your "passion" is what I'd call an "emotional investment."



Really. Which "opinion" of mine included any contradiction? I don't believe I've discarded any opinion. On the contrary, I respect that people are free to have opinions that differ with mine. You should do the same.

Did I say Apple users buy the same stuff over and over again? Yes. And that isn't belittling. It's called stating the truth. You are free to feel belittled by the truth, if you wish to. Emotionally attached, I call it. Also, you might want to refer to a video few comments back that should explain the same point.

And contradiction lies in your reasoning when you discard disadvantages of one platform as either not needed or someone's personal opinion or requirement, and yet choose to bash any other platforms for whatever features they might not have, refusing to believe that your opinion is just that - a personal opinion, and not necessarily a disadvantage. If I want to watch a show online, I watch it. I don't wait for one app to arrive when there are other ways of getting it done, and the platform lets you do it. Getting things done is more important than fixating on one way of doing it. Stop it already.

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[Old_Mil]

I will second the ios 7 is loathesome point made above. No idea how a successful company could take a reasonably well put together os like ios 6 and ruin it.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9330

[Ankit RS]

You need to read more carefully. I never said I felt belittled. I did say that your comments were belittling, which you then foolishly denied only to now acknowledge. Similarly, I never said that the users you described weren't emotionally attached; what is said was that it was hypocritical of you to call other users emotionally attached when you clearly are yourself. You might want to get in the habit of understanding what I actually write, instead of reading my comment, misunderstanding it because you're emotionally attached, then writing a post that confirms the same. Just saying.



Okay you're clearly confused, because I haven't written off any advantage of any platform. I'm not the same person you were arguing with previously, in case you hadn't picked up on that. This is a web forum, not an email exchange.

First of all, for the last point you made, I owe you an apology. Mybad. I somehow confused you for the other guy, and called you contradicting. It was wrong, and I apologize for that.

For the rest of your points:

A. I never said or acknowledged that my statements were belittling; I simply stated the truth that if the fact that iPhone users buy the same stuff over and over again seems belittling to you (or whoever you thought it would belittle), I can't help it. You (or whoever) are free to feel belittled.

B. As far emotionally attached people are concerned, I didn't even introduce the term into the discussion, let alone calling people that. It was the other guy who called people so, and you who supported it. My point was - in reply to your comment where you used the emotionally attached term - by your own (and the other guy's) definition, there cannot be a more emotionally attached group than the iSheeps.





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