[Phil DeLong]

The biggest issue with the price is that it doesn't appear in-line with what a RIM handset is worth these days. (to the general buyer)

I don't feel the pricing is outrageous for a new higher end smartphone, but I do think it's a little steep especially for OS7 which is at EOL from day one.

Bingo. I don't think it's too expensive for a smartphone, I think it's too expensive for a BlackBerry.

[berklon]

The market will decide if the price is too high or not. If the sales are poor, they'll have no choice but to drop the price - which I suspect will be the case.

[_StephenBB81]

A few differences between RIM and the Android device manufacturers is the currency the company's work in.

RIM's uses US dollars, which in the past was good in the last year the US dollar has been crap! Which really hurts RIM's purchasing power. RAW materials have gone up dramatically, and RIM is getting heat for margin erosion from investors as much as market share erosion.

Everyone seems to forget inflation, which is 2-3% a year compounded more so by the weak US dollar, I would not be surprised to see the iPhone 5 launch in this price bracket, and "big name" phones also launch in the same price Bracket as Android Manufacturers actually get a Name for their Brands and start selling the Brand more than the cost.

I am Happy with the Off contract price because it is still Less than the BlackBerry Tour was at launch, and with the Dollar being where it is, that makes me even Happier.
The on Contract prices suck all around, the fact we have to put up so much and sign up for so long is ridiculous, IF they tied the cost into the monthly Bill for 3 years, and required you to buy out the remainder of the phone if you wish to upgrade early that would be more acceptable, similar to how things are done in the UK.
But Canadians we NEED to stand up to the Carriers, we never will because that isn't the Canadian way, but 3 year contracts are robbery seeing as the life of a smart phone is about 24-28 months unless taken care of extremely well, and repair costs exceed new the costs of a new device quickly

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[KingKuba]

A few differences between RIM and the Android device manufacturers is the currency the company's work in.

RIM's uses US dollars, which in the past was good in the last year the US dollar has been crap! Which really hurts RIM's purchasing power. RAW materials have gone up dramatically, and RIM is getting heat for margin erosion from investors as much as market share erosion.

Everyone seems to forget inflation, which is 2-3% a year compounded more so by the weak US dollar, I would not be surprised to see the iPhone 5 launch in this price bracket, and "big name" phones also launch in the same price Bracket as Android Manufacturers actually get a Name for their Brands and start selling the Brand more than the cost.

I am Happy with the Off contract price because it is still Less than the BlackBerry Tour was at launch, and with the Dollar being where it is, that makes me even Happier.
The on Contract prices suck all around, the fact we have to put up so much and sign up for so long is ridiculous, IF they tied the cost into the monthly Bill for 3 years, and required you to buy out the remainder of the phone if you wish to upgrade early that would be more acceptable, similar to how things are done in the UK.
But Canadians we NEED to stand up to the Carriers, we never will because that isn't the Canadian way, but 3 year contracts are robbery seeing as the life of a smart phone is about 24-28 months unless taken care of extremely well, and repair costs exceed new the costs of a new device quickly

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Sounds like a lot of excuses, no inflation won't change anything, neither will the exchange rate. Iphone 5 will be the same price as Iphone 4 most likely.

Even the Galaxy s2 is only $169 or less in Canada so no top end androids won't be going for much more.

[_StephenBB81]

Sounds like a lot of excuses, no inflation won't change anything, neither will the exchange rate. Iphone 5 will be the same price as Iphone 4 most likely.

Even the Galaxy s2 is only $169 or less in Canada so no top end androids won't be going for much more.

Lets wait and see when the iPhone 5 drops as to it's price, I will happily say I was wrong, but I greatly suspect it will be higher on contract than $199,

and Android devices still don't have Brand recognition in the public yet to sell as a Brand and demand a premium, BlackBerry, and iPhone are BRANDS, you ask half the non tech based consumers who have Android phones, and they say I have Android, that is what they were sold, that is what they are looking for when buying apps, Android, they don't have the Brand recognition to say it is a Samsung Galaxy S2, or HTC what ever, once the Android manufacturers create a BRAND they will see pricing go up, right now the competition between the manufacturers drives pricing and margins down. Samsung is on it's way to being a BRAND and not just a host for an OS.

[anon(749368)]

what are you smoking? a 3D android phone w/ 2 yr contract is $199 on Sprint and they want me to pay $300 for a new Bold? what does it do to warrant that price? Just because RIM finally caught up with technology, they feel we should pay premium price? Look around and see what is the price for a premium Android, WP7, Iphone and price your phone accordingly if you want to compete. Don't get me wrong, I'm a BB fanboy but $300 for a phone? IT'S CRAZY!!!!!!!

[SRR500]

I will have no problem going back to the Curve series if that's what the money (both their price and my funds available) tells me I should do.

The new Curve is still an upgrade to the 9650 I have now. It's a smaller upgrade but also a less costly one. I feel it it would be worthwhile it if the price is $100 or less.

For me August is a bad month to upgrade my phone. It costs a small fortune to send the kids back to school.

I will wait untill afer everything settles down a little. Probably.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[01itr]

Have some carriers actually come out with pricing details on their websites? If not, everything here is simply speculation.

[West Coast Flavor]

I somewhat disagree with the brand arguement. That can be said for low level androids. Not the high end ones. If you don't know what an EVO is you're obviously a cave man. At one time you couldn't BUY this phone. Same can be said for the galaxy. Heck.. its written on the back of the phone!!!!!!! Same thing with the Nexus. I'd say these companies have made individual superstars in the smartphone world. Ask the average blackberry user what PHONE they have.. most likely they will just say I have a blackberry. They don't k ow bold 9700.. 9650.. curve 3g etc. So I don't really see your point.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

I somewhat disagree with the brand arguement. That can be said for low level androids. Not the high end ones. If you don't know what an EVO is you're obviously a cave man. At one time you couldn't BUY this phone. Same can be said for the galaxy. Heck.. its written on the back of the phone!!!!!!! Same thing with the Nexus. I'd say these companies have made individual superstars in the smartphone world. Ask the average blackberry user what PHONE they have.. most likely they will just say I have a blackberry. They don't k ow bold 9700.. 9650.. curve 3g etc. So I don't really see your point.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The Market talks about BlackBerry, iPhone, Android, that is what people NOT in the know hear. the techies know their Phone device and model, but as you pointed out, Few people know what Kind of BlackBerry they have, they just know it is a BlackBerry and BlackBerry was the brand they wanted. same with the iPhone, people don't say. "I have an iPhone 3G" or "4" they say "I have an iPhone", people with Android based devices still call them Androids, OR because of Verizon advertising simply "I have a Droid" when you clearly can see they have an Atrix or a Galaxy, I really think Samsung is on the Brink of making the Galaxy a Brand name, the EVO? ya not gonna happen but Samsung is being smart they've carried the Galaxy name to tablets, to smartphones and they have made a beautiful one. Brand recognition matters. we don't like to believe it, but it does and BlackBerry is STILL a recognized brand and those who don't follow tech, know it historically has been a top of the line product,
Plus it doesn't have any form factor competition.
The Slab touch screen device market is full of competition.

[lssanjose]

The Market talks about BlackBerry, iPhone, Android, that is what people NOT in the know hear. the techies know their Phone device and model, but as you pointed out, Few people know what Kind of BlackBerry they have, they just know it is a BlackBerry and BlackBerry was the brand they wanted. same with the iPhone, people don't say. "I have an iPhone 3G" or "4" they say "I have an iPhone", people with Android based devices still call them Androids, OR because of Verizon advertising simply "I have a Droid" when you clearly can see they have an Atrix or a Galaxy, I really think Samsung is on the Brink of making the Galaxy a Brand name, the EVO? ya not gonna happen but Samsung is being smart they've carried the Galaxy name to tablets, to smartphones and they have made a beautiful one. Brand recognition matters. we don't like to believe it, but it does and BlackBerry is STILL a recognized brand and those who don't follow tech, know it historically has been a top of the line product,
Plus it doesn't have any form factor competition.
The Slab touch screen device market is full of competition.

If HTC did something similar, it wouldn't have the brand recognition problems you mentioned. Then again only recently did HTC get their name out there

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[West Coast Flavor]

I agree.. but then I don't agree. Blackberry is no doubt a staple in the technology world. I was recently on a flight and the attendant said power off your "blackberries" we all were on them.. myself included. Great example of a BRAND. HTC "quietly brilliant" No they do not have BRAND power.. but you can go in any ghetto in America and they will know about the EVO. Same thing with iPhone. Nobody knows the company.. but they know the phone. So in a sense its the same thing. Just different levels. I don't think HTC will ever have the brand power of blackberry or Apple.. but I think they deserve props for making EVO a house hold name. Sort of like the Lebron BRAND under Nike.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[pattste]

The price to user is determined by the reseller (the network), not the manufacturer. In most markets the law does not allow RIM to influence the end-user price, nor does it allow collusion between different resellers to fix a common price.

Obviously the resellers have the final say, but if RIM had made the suggested price and the cost to the carriers $100 less, don't you think they would be selling for less?

[_StephenBB81]

Obviously the resellers have the final say, but if RIM had made the suggested price and the cost to the carriers $100 less, don't you think they would be selling for less?

in my experience with distribution channels.

NOPE!! I can discount to my dealers and they don't pass on the savings to the end users, they have set price points and they just keep the extra margins themselves.


we need the Carriers to drop the contracts from 3 years to 2 years!!!

[dv220s]

in my experience with distribution channels.

NOPE!! I can discount to my dealers and they don't pass on the savings to the end users, they have set price points and they just keep the extra margins themselves.


we need the Carriers to drop the contracts from 3 years to 2 years!!!

This is what I thought. Carriers don't seem to be out to help their customers when it comes to pricing. Here in the US, our contracts are 2 years with I would believe some very generous networks allowing 1 year. I believe Verizon did it at some point in time.

[kpak73]

I'm still on my 3 year plan with the original Storm (here in Canada) and I got it when it just came out... it is sad... We should be getting these BB for almost free because RIM is a Canadian company.

[kpak73]

If nobody buys the new BBs then they will quickly reduce the price and then the consumers win!!

[OverShadow417]

If they bring the Torch 9810 to AT&T for $199, the current same price as a 16GB iPhone 4, they will sell VERY poorly.

When the iPhone 5 comes out and it sticks to the $199 price, while dropping the iPhone 4 to $99 or even $150, the Torch will be a bust and it'll be Game Over.

[gunderscorewil]

I still dont understand the whole "Brand" thing. To the public the "brand" is Android. Yea, they are made by many different manufacturers with different names but thats no different than WinMo and WP7. And people do kno when they have a high end android device and carriers do sell them for a higher price point. VZW was sellin the Thunderbolt for 249 at first. The Captivate was sold for 199.99 for a LONG time before going down.

As far as "brands" the 8 and 16 GB iPhones do NOT sell for $300....I believe the 32GB iP4 MIGHT have sold for 299.99 at first. But i can only recall it being at 249 at the highest.

The case in point is that these new devices are "allegedly" priced WAY too high. There is no amount of "Brand Recognition" justification that will change that. I was reading that TMo is going to be selling the 9900 for 299,99 AFTER a 50 MIR. That is just unacceptable and insulting. No amount of "new equipment," that isnt really all that highend, will change that.

Alas, the prices WILL have to go down once the market "says so." But thats not to say it will be quick. ATT, for example, was selling 9000s for 199.99 all the way up until they cancelled it (it was still available for upgrade up until at least January).

[laurah2215]

I guess what bothers me is that these devices are still on 3 year contracts. I mean, we know they're going to be obsolete in 18 months (or less). Can't we find a way to make them affordable on a shorter contract? I mean, I know the retail mark-up has GOT to be insane on these. It doesn't cost $600 or $700 to make a BB. I know they're basically a computer, but c'mon! I don't want to pay $600, and I don't want to buy it outright. Isn't there any way to make these things affordable and the contracts shorter (I guess without totally compromising the integrity of the product)? Maybe I'm just a dreamer.lol

[_StephenBB81]

I guess what bothers me is that these devices are still on 3 year contracts. I mean, we know they're going to be obsolete in 18 months (or less). Can't we find a way to make them affordable on a shorter contract? I mean, I know the retail mark-up has GOT to be insane on these. It doesn't cost $600 or $700 to make a BB. I know they're basically a computer, but c'mon! I don't want to pay $600, and I don't want to buy it outright. Isn't there any way to make these things affordable and the contracts shorter (I guess without totally compromising the integrity of the product)? Maybe I'm just a dreamer.lol

http://forums.crackberry.com/other-n...tracts-635441/


as Canadians we need to show a vocal displeasure!
We need to then get our political back benchers looking for a cause involved

really on the Federal side people of Quebec need to get involved! with the NDP so prominent in that province and such young MP's it is the kind of non issue issue that could help one make a name for themselves.

[pattste]

The market will decide if the price is too high or not. If the sales are poor, they'll have no choice but to drop the price - which I suspect will be the case.

You would think so, but it doesn't always happen. For instance, the sales of PlayBooks are supposed to be dismal yet three months after their release the price hasn't moved one bit. I always thought they were priced $100 too high but the market hasn't adjusted.

[pattste]

If they bring the Torch 9810 to AT&T for $199, the current same price as a 16GB iPhone 4, they will sell VERY poorly.

When the iPhone 5 comes out and it sticks to the $199 price, while dropping the iPhone 4 to $99 or even $150, the Torch will be a bust and it'll be Game Over.

I agree that the new BlackBerries are priced too high, but when it comes to the iPhone 5 you are speculating since you have no idea at what price point it will come out. It's not even announced yet. Also, the iPhone 4 is a year old so I doubt that it is a real competitor to the new Berries. I think most people who wanted one have bought one by now.

[stackberry369]

Some of you are willing to pay $5 for starbucks coffee,but complain about bb prices?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[pattste]

Some of you are willing to pay $5 for starbucks coffee,but complain about bb prices?

StarBucks can charge $5 for a coffee because:

1) They are the market leader and perceived as offering the best product / experience
2) People are willing to pay the price, the product is in high-demand.

StarBucks is the iPhone of coffee shops.

Research In Motion cannot afford to charge $550 for a Bold because:

1) The brand is under attack from all sides and the new phones are perceived as catching up to the competition a year after the fact, and barely.

2) People are voting with their dollars and buying iPhone / Android instead.

That's why we're complaining about the price of the new Berries. We're looking at the competition and wondering how they're going to sell. I can afford to buy any phone that I want personally but I want the new BBs to be successful.