[KNEBB]

In reference to the BlackBerry Consumer : I've noticed that the older BlackBerry devices have found a new market. BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition, although it wasn't sold through a carrier, still has a strong following. And I would venture to say, still would sell at a reasonable price.

In comparison; have the newer BlackBerry device launched in the past two years, done as well? Being marketed more aggressively and distributed through more channels, would you say they have maintained their market value?

How are the sales on the KeyOne, being that it seems to be distributed sporadically throughout the world.
Posted via CB10

[coffee-turtle]

" marketed more aggressively " I have never seen this with any current BlackBerry phone. If there's a commercial on tv for a smartphone, it's going to be one of two options that you can easily guess.

I don't have the hard stats on the KeyOne, but based on all of the chatter here on CB, it seems to be doing the best out of all the recent BlackBerry devices.

[donnation]

The Passport has a minute following and can be bought for next to nothing ($187 on Amazon). I don't think the newer devices did well at all. BlackBerry has discontinued the DTEK series phones and the Priv is still out there, but its not a good option or ever sold much.

The KEYone may have some small sales numbers, but I don't think its anything to write home about, but that might be all TCL was going for was some niche buyers.

[thurask]

If the Silver Passport constitutes a strong following then the KEYone has the unwavering support of half the galaxy.

[neoberry99]

Lol

[spantch101]

Lol

My thoughts exactly


Posted with my good ol reliable classic

[KNEBB]

When I mention terms like " aggressive marketing ", and " a strong following ", these were used in respect to BlackBerry Consumers. And used in comparison between the newer and the older BlackBerry devices.

And it goes to the question ; if you change the products that you sell (assuming it's viewed as being a quality product, which the reviews many times have indicated ) and there's an anticipation of their release (as it was with the Passport and the KeyOne. As well as the Dtek series ). Can it be said that; maybe it's not as much the products being sold, as it is the way in which you're selling them?
As much as it's been stated that BlackBerry Devices don't sell, it's not that the devices are bad. And it's not that they haven't evolved .They have changed the Operating Systems, they've changed Form-factors, they've changed manufacturers.
But the one thing that remains relatively unchanged is the way in which they go about the business of; Pricing, Marketing and Distributing the product to would be buyers.
In the most recent case of the KeyOne; there was anticipation from the industry and interest by the consumer. But after the initial buzz and momentum, there remains the questions of Distribution (whens it coming out and where can I go to get one?), Pricing ($570 for a Mid-range device?), Marketing (why should I buy it just for a PKB ?). And the roll outs of a device that could be said to be crucial to the brand; has honestly been poor.


Posted via CB10

[fairmarketvalue]

"I don't have the hard stats on the KeyOne, but based on all of the chatter here on CB, it seems to be doing the best out of all the recent BlackBerry devices.

Many hundreds sold!! Based on all of the chatter on CB, all sold to Crackberrians! LOL.

[cgk]

"

I don't have the hard stats on the KeyOne, but based on all of the chatter here on CB, it seems to be doing the best out of all the recent BlackBerry devices.

This has been claimed for every bomb of the last five years.

[coffee-turtle]

This has been claimed for every bomb of the last five years.

????

[coffee-turtle]

Many hundreds sold!! Based on all of the chatter on CB, all sold to Crackberrians! LOL.

Yeah, since CrackBerry is pretty much the tech support of all the BlackBerry's of the world, that would make sense.
:-D

[Troy Tiscareno]

But after the initial buzz and momentum, there remains the questions of Distribution (whens it coming out and where can I go to get one?), Pricing ($570 for a Mid-range device?), Marketing (why should I buy it just for a PKB ?). And the roll outs of a device that could be said to be crucial to the brand; has honestly been poor.

The last time BB was in a position to afford any real marketing was the first half of 2013 - and that year brought them close to bankruptcy, which was only avoided by Fairfax loaning them $1.25B. The costs of marketing a consumer electronics product are very high, and you must be able to sell millions of devices to cover those costs. BB is selling thousands of devices, not millions, and it's clear that both BB and potential investors/money lenders believe that more marketing would not sell significantly more phones.

Part of that is because of BB's negative brand image, which BB spent 8 years destroying with poor decision after poor decision and lousy execution at every step, and part of it is that BB isn't in a position to compete on price - they MUST price their devices high because they NEED to make more margin on the devices to pay for their increased R&D costs.

BB's "thing" has always been security, but security is one of the most complex and (when it comes to software) expensive areas in software development - and those costs have to be paid for, and what pays for them is gross profit margin on phone sales. The fewer phones you sell, the more margin you need to make per phone to cover your costs. At some point, you cross a line on a graph where you can't cover costs AND you are too expensive for most of your customers to want to buy your product - and at that point, you withdraw from the market or bankrupt your company. BB was at that point with BB10 since its launch (they lost many billions of dollars on BB10 phone sales), and reached that point with Android phones with the Priv - which is why BB doesn't make phones anymore, and just licenses the brand and some software. But security still costs a lot to develop and maintain, and TCL has to pay for that, so they too have to keep handset prices high to make enough margin to pay for it.

Another problem for BB is that iOS and Android's own security has greatly improved over the last 5 years, increasingly narrowing the gap between them and BB - which makes BB's value-add worth less and less by comparison, and does less and less to sell phones. But the costs don't go down as sales volume goes down - the costs are the same whether it's 1 phone or 10M phones - and the fewer phones you sell, the fewer phones you have to spread that cost over. It's a very tough place to be for a company...

[KNEBB]

The cost of Marketing can be affected by how it's done :
And the cheapest, most effective form of marketing is Word of Mouth: and if BlackBerry's edge in the industry is Security, than "Security" should be worked into the lexicon of every conversation in public and private.
There has been so many opportunities in the Current News Cycle where BlackBerry could have taken advantage and emphasised their philosophy and history with securing mobile devices and the BlackBerry Mobile devices advantage. You have had Presidents,Chancellors, Presidential Candidates and Government Officials clinging to their BlackBerries.That's actual "word of mouth advertising" that should be the emphasis by every BlackBerry spokesperson in every private and public forum. And it's free!!!
The competition has made up ground partly because BlackBerry has been assisting them in doing so; either directly (by developing software for other OS 's) or indirectly by not emphasizing their advantage and controlling the narrative. Example: Here an article saying that the current US President uses an unsecured Android Device to Tweet. Wow,true or not, that's a heck of a Marketable Point, especially since his predecessors have used BlackBerries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...tweets/520869/
This is the reason why competition has been attempting to close the gap, because they have to. And that's an opportunity where BlackBerry is not screaming there advantage. Possibly because it's a conflict of interest, when it comes to doing business with those other platforms. Part of Marketing is changing Perception: BlackBerry being smaller means being less attractive to Hackers looking to score big, in respect to larger, less secure platforms.

In regards to Cost and Market Exposure: I wonder what the increase in BlackBerry Device Sales Volumes are during a Sale or after a Price Reduction. I know it's hard to find some Passports, the Priv sold more after the price drop. And I bet if the Dtek60 comes down more, it would be even more attractive. My point is; even BlackBerry's,older models have increased sales at a better price point. And maybe a better initial price point, would equal Increase Initial Sales Volume, and offset the reduction in price.
And part of the "Negative Brand Image" can be equated to the cost associated with BlackBerry Devices(especially in comparison with the emergence of the new Mid-ranged, high spec'd phones). Not mentioning the inability to meet existing demands at launch of the KeyOne. Which could be possibly related to the lack of initial sales of previously launched BlackBerry devices. Which would be in line with you saying "poor decision after poor decision and lousy execution at every step".
But the competition hasn't just closed the gap on BlackBerry; Apple has been marketing IPHONE and IOS like it's a camera and camera software that happens to be attached to a phone, for years. Emphasizing that aspect of their products. But now many manufacturers have caught up to and some have passed by IOS photo quality. And now IOS is also feeling the pinch.
R&D is a cost of doing business; but BlackBerry has reduced or offset many of their costs by restructuring and entering into new business partnerships and agreements. But to truly offset R&D, you have to sell units.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

I always thought changing their name from RIM to BlackBerry was a big mistake. Even if "BlackBerry" was a known name. By then it was tarnished.

[donnation]

I always thought changing their name from RIM to BlackBerry was a big mistake. Even if "BlackBerry" was a known name. By then it was tarnished.

Ah, the not too long ago disaster that was Thorsten Heins. Good times here when he was running the ship.

[cgk]

I always thought changing their name from RIM to BlackBerry was a big mistake. Even if "BlackBerry" was a known name. By then it was tarnished.

It also meant that we no longer get headlines like '6,000 RIM Jobs at risk'.

[kbz1960]

It also meant that we no longer get headlines like '6,000 RIM Jobs at risk'.

LMAO

[stlabrat]

re-brand appear to be little help (based on dtek) for BB/TCL. spend tons of money on Alicia Key and F1 plus Superball purple smoke are proven to be smoke. Marketing money more than R&D was proven dog strategy. K1 sells well so far (as much as they can produce and replace the field defect screen lifting one). Sure it hurts TCL bottom line due to screen lifting replacement (silly mistake. the material/process and program manager should take a pay cut). based on the CB board, look like K1 is better product than dtek - Go genunine BB design still counts, including keyboard... missing para might be a short sight... Design still the money maker (differentiate from the others). hardware embedded security still the king... (even the OS is seepage, if not leakage). Logisttic at TCL appear to be lacking that impact the sales... (peeka boo stock units at Best Buy and Amazon... plus the replacement of defective unit. the combination of the two are killing the market...). as for now, you get what you pay for it (TCL possibly not the prime MFG in the production field), possibly the best thing you can get for BB volume at cost (to keep it 549 USD... if up front paid more for prime MFG with good logistic and material/processing/test, it could be a 500 USD handsets at much large volume). IMHO

[anon(10268214)]

Another problem for BB is that iOS and Android's own security has greatly improved over the last 5 years, increasingly narrowing the gap between them and BB - which makes BB's value-add worth less and less by comparison, and does less and less to sell phones.

Unfortunately you can't talk about Android and BlackBerry Android as if they are two different things! Narrowing what gap? It's the same OS. What's good for Android security is good for BlackBerry. It just so happens that BlackBerry's implementation of Android security, by their own volition, is more robust than most (and continues to be, BTW).

[BeautyEh]

I got mostly silence when I attempted these comments years ago, but why couldn't BB have leveraged it's US Military standing as part of a concentrated ad campaign to "re-brand" what BlackBerry was all about?

Americans are patriotic....and it's practically impossible to dislike something these days that *seems* like it "supports our troops". I don't even think there would've been anything disingenuous about it. Maybe it wouldn't have translated into a ton of extra sales, but it really couldn't have hurt, in the long term. And it's a space that neither Apple nor Samsung could compete at that time in.

BlackBerry's BB10 ads were so lame, me too, and the Super Bowl ad...ugh. Compared with Apple's slick advertising. Just a waste.

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

I got mostly silence when I attempted these comments years ago, but why couldn't BB have leveraged it's US Military standing as part of a concentrated ad campaign to "re-brand" what BlackBerry was all about?

BBOS, which the military used, was widely seen to be obsolete by 2010, and the military never adopted BB10, so what could BB have advertised?

[prplhze2000]

There was some buzz about the Keyone when it was first announced but BlackBerry Mobile blew it and failed to take advantage of it. Rollout was delayed several months. Literally a buzzkiller.

Hard to get on Amazon and ignored by all carriers but Sprint.

[cgk]

. It just so happens that BlackBerry's implementation of Android security, by their own volition, is more robust than most (and continues to be, BTW).

That's the claim but seems to be mainly a)smoke and mirrors and b) not something the market cares about.

I got mostly silence when I attempted these comments years ago, but why couldn't BB have leveraged it's US Military standing as part of a concentrated ad campaign to "re-brand" what BlackBerry was all about?

Americans are patriotic....and it's practically impossible to dislike something these days that *seems* like it "supports our troops"..

Posted via CB10

An odd stance for a candidan company 'we support THEIR troops'.

[anon(10268214)]

That's the claim but seems to be mainly a)smoke and mirrors and b) not something the market cares about.

I don't think it's smoke and mirrors at all. However, I do believe what they have done is possible for any Android OEM to accomplish, if they so choose. As you say, a few security enhancements is not a huge market draw. But it is a niche and it could be a profitable one, even at comparatively low volumes.

[Troy Tiscareno]

But it is a niche and it could be a profitable one, even at comparatively low volumes.

Low volume in something as complex as the smartphone business rarely equals profits. In order to turn a profit with low sales volumes, you must charge more per unit, and the fewer you sell, the higher the unit cost must be to cover R&D and support and still turn a profit. But then you run up against the competition who are selling devices at lower prices. How much more are BB's security improvements over, say, a Samsung with Knox? Probably not a whole lot for most companies - and that's the situation BBMo is facing.