New BB Users and OS Upgrades

I have been reading these posts at least twice a day for the past several months, although I don't usually post. I am an IT support tech of almost 20 years, and a blackberry user (& support tech) for the past 5. I have learned quite a few cool little tricks from reading posts here. (Thanks for a great forum, Crackberry!)

Now, on to the point of this message (and my pet peeve...)
I am seeing multitudes of posters lately saying something to the effect of "hi, just got my first BB a day/week/month ago and I need help updating my OS." Or... "Noob BB user here, just installed the new OS on my week old BB, and it's hosed. Can someone give me some quick pointers?"

Whatever happened to actually USING the device for awhile and learning how it works?

How many of you non-automotive types would go buy a car today, and a week later post on the "Car & Driver" forums "Hello, just got my first car this week... can someone please drop me a few pointers on upgrading my engine?" The laughter from the mechanics would be heard around the world.

What TRULY is the difference between the two? From a support perspective, there is NONE. Both of them require knowledge and experience in that respective field. I drove my first car in 1982... but when my car needs work, I pay someone with that knowledge to fix it for me. My chosen field of expertise is workstations, servers and operating systems. I started working on PCs when DOS 4.0 was hot (and Windows was non-existent). I would not have DREAMED of "updating the OS" a week after I touched my first PC. Blackberries are just handheld computers, and as such they require a certain level of skill and experience that is not usually inbred into the average human.

I realize that I'm probably going to get some flames for this... but that's what I get for telling you the truth. As a REAL support tech, I'm not about to try "giving a few pointers" to a brand new (non-experienced) BB user who has hosed up their device.

**THAT IS NOT REALISTIC.**

What I WILL suggest is that you use the device as it came out of the box for at least 4-6 months - until you gain an understanding of how it works, what it's functions are, and how it is supposed to operate. At the same time, be doing some research to understand what is required to "update your OS" BEFORE you run a questionable file you downloaded from some hacker site.

I'll get down off my soapbox now.

Jason

maybe a handful of people on this forum will understand why i'll flip out on the occasional member about this issue. more likely not though.

but i agree, although i wouldnt have bothered to spend that much time organizing my thoughts to post it... it's a hopeless cause. people will continue to be ********.

That is exactly why I have an entire paragraph in RED LETTERING at the very beginning of my Upgrade Procedure Tutorial... but it seems many people mindlessly pass over these warnings and end up with an easily fixable '507' error. They then proceed to flip out and create and entirely new thread with some sort of urgent title screaming out for help... :( :rolleyes: *sigh*

I guess we just have to deal with it, because there will always be those people who do not listen and think they know better... until they mess up. And then they just expect help to fall right in their lap. But that is the name of the game around here... so whatevs

[QUOTE=rayohope;726198]

Whatever happened to actually USING the device for awhile and learning how it works?

LMBO Bro I think you spoke for some of us, if not the majority. Due to alot of questions that are asked are things you learn by getting to know your device. But in today's society folks do not read their manuals, so getting them to play and learn their device will be too much. I have had people tell me, why should they do that when they can come to me for the quick anwser and besides its too much time and trouble that they dont have.

Very well said BMC, as you mentioned we get some people who think they know it all and forget to read between the lines.
They are the ones stuff up their BB's and come crying on CB. Please help please help....I hate that.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well, I've been coming here for a while before I actually got my BB. I used my husband's own to learn about the features etc...so by the time I got my own BB, I knew a great deal about what I was doing. Now, I even help my husband out with his - I give him the softwares I think he should have etc.

Welcome to CrackBerry Jason.

DOS 4.0, that was a while ago. :D

I am in total agreement, no user, no matter what their experience level, is advised to jump into the beta test pool without a PFD.

The situation changes once carriers have tested and released the new OS version. The improvements are substantial and worth while.

Originally Posted by rayohope

Whatever happened to actually USING the device for awhile and learning how it works?

WHOOOHOOOO! Yeah! Well said! :D

i'm on the newbie end of this, and i totally agree.

i've had my BB for what...five months now (my first ever). i'm actually terrified to put anything *~crazy~* on my berry, all i've added are twitterberry and opera mini. i wouldn't dare add a beta OS at this point of my BB life. i know damn well i'm too much of a novice. just wish others saw this point and wouldn't come running to you guys when they've screwed up and expect you to bend over backwards trying to help them fix it.

I can see I'm not the only one who feels this way! :rolleyes:

I wasn't even specifically referring to BETA operating systems persay... It was more along the lines of - "if you don't have the experience to do the upgrade work, find someone who does - or keep your hands off!" :cool:

Bigmarv - I see you're from MD... I work in Frederick!

Reed - thanks for the welcome, and yes... DOS 4 WAS a while ago! (I feel so old when I have to decipher txtspeak in some of these posts! Don't the schools teach them how to spell anymore??)

Killthischorus - thanks for restoring my hope that there are still a few out there who "get it". :D

Jason

I read this post with interest and could not agree more. As a new Pearl and blackberry user I am still definitely learning what it can do. Like the OP I have been using computers and providing support since DOS 2x. I still prefer DOS to Windows.

I had my BB Pearl for three days and after reading about all the benefits of OS 4.5 decided to upgrade and promptly hosed my BB. Not to worry, just logged on and searched the forums and found out how to fix it. Worked like a charm and love the new OS.

My point is, these forums provide most of the answers. All the noob has to do is do a little searching and reading

this should be stickied as a PSA, even though it will be promptly ignored.

maybe used as a persistent popup for anyone new members who cant pass a simple registration quiz... have this message pop up on every page loading until they pass the test.

I agree to an extent. Some people are more technologically inclined than others, and want to get the most out of their devices. You can't deny that 4.5 offers a lot over 4.2. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to upgrade and make your $500 phone do all it is capable of.

Now those people who have no idea what they are doing and attempt to upgrade their OS and brick their phone...well that's another story.

I have been doing support for quite some time myself and can't help but agree. That's the nature of the business though. You are there to help others when they screw up something you know how to fix.

As far as the OS upgrades go, this is my second BB. Never even upgraded my Pearl. It did everything I needed it to just fine and I was still finding things buried that I knew nothing about.

Switching to the Curve was an incremental upgrade. Couple of new features but I think that had to do with the carriers more so than the phones themselves. I hear a lot of good things about 4.5 though. I will check it out when Sprint releases the official files.

I have had some small success lately with pointing out that installing a beta OS invalidates the warranty. This is especially foolish during the first 30 days, when one can get a new machine for the asking, as long as he hasn't voided his warranty...

I have also had some success pointing new users to Reed's MOP as an alternative to upgrading their OS. It's an excellent OS and memory tutorial. Once they've mastered the MOP, they've got a better chance with the OS upgrade. Which needs a good acronym... How about "Helpful Operating System Enhancements"? Then the unfortunate ones could honestly say they HOSEd their device...

Noob here myself totally agree with what's being said however if you research the forums here and follow the guide to uprade to a t it is very simple just need to do your homework

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by JeffH

How about "Helpful Operating System Enhancements"? Then the unfortunate ones could honestly say they HOSEd their device...

I am gonna HAVE TO remember this one! :D


Jason

Originally Posted by JeffH

I have had some small success lately with pointing out that installing a beta OS invalidates the warranty. This is especially foolish during the first 30 days, when one can get a new machine for the asking, as long as he hasn't voided his warranty...

I have also had some success pointing new users to Reed's MOP as an alternative to upgrading their OS. It's an excellent OS and memory tutorial. Once they've mastered the MOP, they've got a better chance with the OS upgrade. Which needs a good acronym... How about "Helpful Operating System Enhancements"? Then the unfortunate ones could honestly say they HOSEd their device...

Haha, HOSE'd, I like that one.

rayofhope: I could not agree more. The thing that bothers me
most is there are new users that give equally new users the
advice to "go for it" without explaining what could possibly
go wrong. And they are NEVER the ones involved in assisting
the person they gave that advice to if it does.

A lot of us usually post some kind of warning and directions
to threads that will help. I just seems that a lot of folk skip
those warnings completely and then, sometimes within hours,
are posting a new thread that starts with HEEELLLLLLLPPPPP!!!!

Jeff - Nicely done on HOSEd :)

If the consequences were greater, fewer people might actually get themselves into trouble.

Fill in the blank:

"Ya know, it's only a little _____________ ... How hard can it be?"

(A) blackberry upgrade
(B) car engine rebuild
(C) boston marathon
(D) open heart surgery
(E) bomb disarming


The fact is there are people who train for, and can do each of these things. And I know which ones I can and cannot do.

I've heard all the arguments... "well, without people doing this to themselves, we'd be out of a job." Although there might be a tiny element of truth in there somewhere, I'm also a tech who believes in educating my customers. Helping them NOT to get themselves in so deep that it takes us days to get them out. And strangely enough, I have never lacked for customers. ;)

All I'm saying is - if you've "got it", then do it. But if you don't, then just be big enough to admit it and ask someone with experience to help you... preferably BEFORE you've bricked the device, a potentially much bigger mess to clean up.

Jason

Originally Posted by rayohope

I've heard all the arguments... "well, without people doing this to themselves, we'd be out of a job." Although there might be a tiny element of truth in there somewhere, I'm also a tech who believes in educating my customers. Helping them NOT to get themselves in so deep that it takes us days to get them out. And strangely enough, I have never lacked for customers. ;)

it's the old "give a fish, help them fish" argument.

but at the same time, there are enough device issues to keep this forum moving along nicely without people causing their own problems on top of it.

but the issue, i think, is that most here tend to believe they're entitled to their hand being held. most times when you tell someone to do a search, they come back with, "why dont you do it for me?".

the worst is when someone starts off with, "i searched but didnt find anything". i'll even replicate the search and usually the answer to their issue is the first or second result.

but as long as people keep tolerating it, it will keep happening. but if you jump in their sh*t consistently, soon the forum gets a rep for being a resource and not a kindergarten... slowly weeding out the babies and enables newbs to actually search before posting. because either way, newbs posting thread titles like, "omgomgomg heeelllllllpppp meeee!!!" is not only annoying and looks horrible to those outside looking in, it stymies the search engine... someone could provide an invaluable answer to a problem and it only gets harder to archive and be refound if needed due to a crap title.

but worse than all of this is the rampant spread of misinformation. this is by far NOT the only tech related forum i'm a member of, but there are by far a higher ratio of members spreading misinformation than any other i frequent. as an example, someone tried telling someone me that doing a "double soft reset" is the same as doing a battery pull, and is proven to work because it will show the VSS upon reboot unlike a normal soft reset that doesnt show the VSS. very, very wrong. and no matter how much i explained that he was wrong, he failed to believe it, since i assume a more respected member on this forum is spreading this misinformation and had him convinced.


and for the record, the VSS process still occurs, even for a soft reset. only a battery pull will clear all caches, not a soft reset... no matter how many times you do it.

I couldn't agree more with the OP. Getting very tired of the "Noobie looking for OS 4.5" or "HELP I bricked my berry" emails.....

I can completely agree with this. I just got my phone this past summer, and I've learned alot about how to use my BB and would LOVE to upgrade my OS...but the simple thought of accidentally KILLING my BB for a few cool upgrades is what keeps me level headed. Because I'm pretty sure that's what I would do since I don't fully understand how to do a proper upgrade.

just my 2 cents..

Originally Posted by oakie

but worse than all of this is the rampant spread of misinformation. this is by far NOT the only tech related forum i'm a member of, but there are by far a higher ratio of members spreading misinformation than any other i frequent. as an example, someone tried telling someone me that doing a "double soft reset" is the same as doing a battery pull, and is proven to work because it will show the VSS upon reboot unlike a normal soft reset that doesnt show the VSS. very, very wrong. and no matter how much i explained that he was wrong, he failed to believe it, since i assume a more respected member on this forum is spreading this misinformation and had him convinced.


and for the record, the VSS process still occurs, even for a soft reset. only a battery pull will clear all caches, not a soft reset... no matter how many times you do it.

Thats an interesting story , I don't suppose this individual provided you an extensive list of links and quotes showing where this information originated, leaving you nothing to "assume", well before this was ^ posted................http://forums.crackberry.com/f52/mig...-how-do-72753/

Originally Posted by SLVR6

I couldn't agree more with the OP. Getting very tired of the "Noobie looking for OS 4.5" or "HELP I bricked my berry" emails.....

I agree 110%. I understand that people want the latest and greatest, but should definitely take time and get to know and understand the device before attempting something that could render it completely useless without the proper help to rectify the situation. I always advise against it for newer members.