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06-03-16 10:03 AM
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  1. EinBB's Avatar
    Even if I"m a person working in finance, before doing a 180 turn into studying finance I used to study psychology, and as a result I remained with a lot of the quirks some people could call pretty judgmental.

    To not write an extensive post most people wouldn't read, I'll just write about why the Priv didn't do better in sales as it was supposed to be, and I'm not saying that I might be right, but it's another perspective from an angle no one thought to see the situation before (not as far as I know at least).

    So, without further ado,

    Priv sales were subpar because the current market of smartphone buyers isn't able to accept a phone such as the Priv.

    Oh yes, and I'm here to tell you why.

    1.When we remember the past PKB Android phones, we remember the early days of Android, where seemingly every manufacturer had at least one phone with PKB. What made the difference was the aimed customer base: Blackberry back then was still selling to corporate a lot of PKB phones, while on Android they struggled because people didn't particularly want a PKB phone, and a landscape PKB phone was the salt in the wound. Going back 2-3 years ago when for Android screens started getting bigger and bigger, the same question was put: will the customer base start learning to use their phones 2-handed? Well, for larger screens it did, for landscape PKBs it did not. Only Blackberry could pull off the portrait PKB "gimmick" (I say it in quotation marks because it isn't for us BB users, but in the current Android all-touch market it appears like one) because it has a history in nailing it on the spot regarding keyboards. So, as number 1, it is PKB in 2015-2016 running Android appears too much as a gimmick to the overall smartphone market.

    2.There is well-established fanaticism in a lot of sectors in the smartphone market, and I doubt there is anyone here unfamiliar with things such as iPhone fanboys: we've all seen them at least once shilling actively why their phone is better than the rest, and over time that began to happen with Androids phones as well, particularly Samsung. Blackberry jumped into the Android space without any such fanboys. If we are to take a holistic view of who bought the Priv, we can see the following sort of people: Blackberry nostalgics (yes, people who went from BB10 to Android as part of this sector too) and people who wanted a different take on the Android experience. Priv succeeded in getting these two groups' attention, but these groups aren't particularly big. So, as number 2, Blackberry jumped pretty much blind into the Android space, unsure who will buy the Priv.

    3.The psychological general profiles of the great majority of the smartphone buyers are incompatible with a phone such as the Priv. Yes, now this is the point I wanted to write the most about, because this sticks out as the most obvious.
    When you hear Blackberry, what comes into your mind? Blackberry being a signifier, by itself it's nothing more than a sound coming out of your mouth. The signifiED is where all the magic happens, aka the hidden meanings of the word, aka all the things pasted to the signifier. So what does that come up with? Corporate culture, Wall St, PKBs, the red LED notification light, top-tier security, BBM, not to mention the iconic sounds (in case anyone who reads this doesn't know, do a Google search of them). You can see a trend here, these are the signified of a serious company, constructing serious phones for serious people who intend on using it for serious work (inb4 someone says office work isn't serious).
    Here is where we connect this aspect with the reason why Priv underperformed: Blackberry built a phone for a very small and polar opposite spectrum of the smartphone buyer market. The great majority of people buy smartphones as status symbols, because of sheep mentality, due to looks or performance; 95% of the market has been summarised in these words. Status symbol, sheep mentality and looks are the reason why Apple owns a good chunk of the smartphone market by itself with only one phone brand, the iPhone. A Priv is neither a status symbol phone, nor one susceptible to sheep mentality, nor particularly performing. Looks remain subjective because there is no one size fits all approach to what makes a phone pretty or not. So, the Priv is a phone aimed at a very small sector of the buyer's market.

    In closing, I'd like to say that I'm sorry if this judgement sounds very shallow and general, but this is how market research is done. As well, the reason I didn't touch at all over specs or technical issues, the reason is because that is going too much in-depth and by no means capable to partially explain, at least in this post, why Priv didn't do well overall. I think we can all agree that you can build the absolute best-looking, overperforming phone out there, but if no one buys it, it was all for nothing, hence why specs weren't something to address in this post.
    TCB on Z10, rt2567, aha and 1 others like this.
    05-28-16 05:41 AM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    You left out 'priced too high'.
    TgeekB, Munx, PantherBlitz and 8 others like this.
    05-28-16 07:15 AM
  3. donnation's Avatar
    Yeah I'd disagree with pretty much everything you wrote.

    It was priced too high.

    I has nothing better to offer over similarly priced Android phones.

    It has a lot of issues.

    Blackberry did basically zero marketing and the general consumer doesn't know it exists.

    Trying to find some deep meaning on why it didn't sell is silly. The answers are on the surface and are not complicated.
    RoseBud68, TgeekB, bakron1 and 9 others like this.
    05-28-16 08:21 AM
  4. hplovecraft's Avatar
    You are mainly describing the environment in which BlackBerry had to release it's phone. Except for maybe the pkb aspect that is not connected to Priv, but to the general market.

    Everybody knows for example that the iPhone has a vastly bigger buyers spectrum to start with (you call them 'sheep'). I assume also BlackBerry knew that ;-)


    Posted via CB10
    05-28-16 08:25 AM
  5. Andrew-NYC's Avatar
    And you misspelled "judgment."
    05-28-16 08:46 AM
  6. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    So you see nothing wrong with a secretive soft-launch into only one price tier?
    05-28-16 09:08 AM
  7. donnation's Avatar
    And the Priv is susceptible to sheep mentality as evidence by the people that claimed Android as the worst OS known to mankind who then purchased one because it said Blackberry on it.
    05-28-16 09:12 AM
  8. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Calling it the Priv was the worst decision in the history of business marketing within modern civilization. Can't think of a worse example of tunnel vision marketing.

    Also, the price should have been lower which has been repeated here many times.

    Via me Q5

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-16 09:52 AM
  9. donnation's Avatar
    3.The psychological general profiles of the great majority of the smartphone buyers are incompatible with a phone such as the Priv. Yes, now this is the point I wanted to write the most about, because this sticks out as the most obvious.
    When you hear Blackberry, what comes into your mind? Blackberry being a signifier, by itself it's nothing more than a sound coming out of your mouth. The signifiED is where all the magic happens, aka the hidden meanings of the word, aka all the things pasted to the signifier. So what does that come up with? Corporate culture, Wall St, PKBs, the red LED notification light, top-tier security, BBM, not to mention the iconic sounds (in case anyone who reads this doesn't know, do a Google search of them). You can see a trend here, these are the signified of a serious company, constructing serious phones for serious people who intend on using it for serious work (inb4 someone says office work isn't serious).
    These things might mean this to people in here, but not the general public. To the general public Blackberry means outdated, irrelevant, or out of business. Not to mention it means the Storm, the Playbook, and old BBOS phones that they wouldn't think of using now. I bet if I polled 10 people on the street and asked them what Blackberry means to them not one single person would mention any of the things that you listed as your identifiers. 10 years ago yes, but not now.
    05-28-16 10:21 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    Priv represents a long running (since the Q's initial release, at least), fundamental misunderstanding of "BB PKB Experience". It's far more than JUST typing. Fully half of the value BB PKB provides is in shortcuts & speed-dials. What good are pkb shortcuts & speed-dials while the pkb itself is hiding in shame behind a screen?

    I, myself, might have had far greater interest in Priv if the screen slid down behind an always available pkb. Compact screen for 90+% of my use, converting to larger format while slid out for the few times per week I might want more screen estate. Win/win, IMO. A real, unashamed, BLACKBERRY pkb experience, IMO. "Screen centric" folks just don't get it. Lol.
    05-28-16 03:00 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The things that contributed to the Priv not selling:

    • High price vs the competition with similar hardware specs
    • The extremely negative brand image that BB has built for itself over the last several years (and continues to foster)
    • The idiotic name BB chose for the product ("Priv"). Someone needs to be slapped across the face for that.
    • The keyboard - the vast majority of users have no need for a PKB
    • Poor carrier relations due to years of BB releasing products that mainstream customers didn't want (causing carriers not to stock phones, display phones, or recommend phones from BB)
    • Did I mention that the phone was overpriced, because BB still seems to believe that they can command a premium even though their brand image is in the toilet?


    All other issues are extremely minor by comparison.
    05-28-16 03:07 PM
  12. aha's Avatar
    Nice analysis OP. As you stated in the post, you are not trying to do a comprehensive analysis on all the elements leading to underperfoming Priv sale, but a perspective not fully discussed... I like the angle you look at this, thanks for posting.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    05-28-16 03:26 PM
  13. bakron1's Avatar
    I also agree the device was priced way to high and the market is for all touch devices at the moment. Even though I know folks who say they miss their PKB device, they wouldn't run out and buy one if it where available.

    They have adapted the all touch device technology and are not looking back. Blackberry should update the z30 with a better screen and processor and price it to sell. Just my two cents worth.
    Jrox74 likes this.
    05-28-16 03:29 PM
  14. aha's Avatar
    A high end full touch flagship with a finger print scanner.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    05-28-16 04:04 PM
  15. redbirdsfan's Avatar
    There are much better devices out there compared to the priv. Lg,htc, and Samsung all make superior android devices.
    05-28-16 04:16 PM
  16. eshropshire's Avatar
    Even if I"m a person working in finance, before doing a 180 turn into studying finance I used to study psychology, and as a result I remained with a lot of the quirks some people could call pretty judgmental.

    To not write an extensive post most people wouldn't read, I'll just write about why the Priv didn't do better in sales as it was supposed to be, and I'm not saying that I might be right, but it's another perspective from an angle no one thought to see the situation before (not as far as I know at least).

    So, without further ado,

    Priv sales were subpar because the current market of smartphone buyers isn't able to accept a phone such as the Priv.

    Oh yes, and I'm here to tell you why.

    1.When we remember the past PKB Android phones, we remember the early days of Android, where seemingly every manufacturer had at least one phone with PKB. What made the difference was the aimed customer base: Blackberry back then was still selling to corporate a lot of PKB phones, while on Android they struggled because people didn't particularly want a PKB phone, and a landscape PKB phone was the salt in the wound. Going back 2-3 years ago when for Android screens started getting bigger and bigger, the same question was put: will the customer base start learning to use their phones 2-handed? Well, for larger screens it did, for landscape PKBs it did not. Only Blackberry could pull off the portrait PKB "gimmick" (I say it in quotation marks because it isn't for us BB users, but in the current Android all-touch market it appears like one) because it has a history in nailing it on the spot regarding keyboards. So, as number 1, it is PKB in 2015-2016 running Android appears too much as a gimmick to the overall smartphone market.

    2.There is well-established fanaticism in a lot of sectors in the smartphone market, and I doubt there is anyone here unfamiliar with things such as iPhone fanboys: we've all seen them at least once shilling actively why their phone is better than the rest, and over time that began to happen with Androids phones as well, particularly Samsung. Blackberry jumped into the Android space without any such fanboys. If we are to take a holistic view of who bought the Priv, we can see the following sort of people: Blackberry nostalgics (yes, people who went from BB10 to Android as part of this sector too) and people who wanted a different take on the Android experience. Priv succeeded in getting these two groups' attention, but these groups aren't particularly big. So, as number 2, Blackberry jumped pretty much blind into the Android space, unsure who will buy the Priv.

    3.The psychological general profiles of the great majority of the smartphone buyers are incompatible with a phone such as the Priv. Yes, now this is the point I wanted to write the most about, because this sticks out as the most obvious.
    When you hear Blackberry, what comes into your mind? Blackberry being a signifier, by itself it's nothing more than a sound coming out of your mouth. The signifiED is where all the magic happens, aka the hidden meanings of the word, aka all the things pasted to the signifier. So what does that come up with? Corporate culture, Wall St, PKBs, the red LED notification light, top-tier security, BBM, not to mention the iconic sounds (in case anyone who reads this doesn't know, do a Google search of them). You can see a trend here, these are the signified of a serious company, constructing serious phones for serious people who intend on using it for serious work (inb4 someone says office work isn't serious).
    Here is where we connect this aspect with the reason why Priv underperformed: Blackberry built a phone for a very small and polar opposite spectrum of the smartphone buyer market. The great majority of people buy smartphones as status symbols, because of sheep mentality, due to looks or performance; 95% of the market has been summarised in these words. Status symbol, sheep mentality and looks are the reason why Apple owns a good chunk of the smartphone market by itself with only one phone brand, the iPhone. A Priv is neither a status symbol phone, nor one susceptible to sheep mentality, nor particularly performing. Looks remain subjective because there is no one size fits all approach to what makes a phone pretty or not. So, the Priv is a phone aimed at a very small sector of the buyer's market.

    In closing, I'd like to say that I'm sorry if this judgement sounds very shallow and general, but this is how market research is done. As well, the reason I didn't touch at all over specs or technical issues, the reason is because that is going too much in-depth and by no means capable to partially explain, at least in this post, why Priv didn't do well overall. I think we can all agree that you can build the absolute best-looking, overperforming phone out there, but if no one buys it, it was all for nothing, hence why specs weren't something to address in this post.
    Blackberry is not doing well in the smartphone market for the same reason Microsoft is dead in the smartphone market. They entered way too late with an offering that had problems. The vast majority of people had already made a choice and don't seem interested in changing.

    People keep saying BlackBerry just needs to do some marketing. Well MS spent billions and their market share keeps shrinking.
    Last edited by eshropshire; 05-29-16 at 03:33 AM.
    05-28-16 06:45 PM
  17. Jack Chin's Avatar
    You left out 'priced too high'.
    lol

    Economics is a hard science compared to psychology.

    Posted via CB10
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    05-28-16 10:53 PM
  18. fanisk's Avatar
    Good analysis, I will add on top the high price and the lack of advertising .
    05-29-16 12:41 AM
  19. EinBB's Avatar
    lol

    Economics is a hard science compared to psychology.

    Posted via CB10
    I didn't go over economics for the reason that the Priv is in no way the most expensive phone in the smartphone line-up (ignoring novelties like Vertu), and in a market where there are still people dumping money every year for iPhones, people who more often than not do not earn sufficient money, or worse, take a loan to buy it, pricing becomes a moot point, because Apple has proven pricing doesn't matter when you take a holistic view of the market. I don't think I have to remember people here why iPhone is a bad smartphone experience in every other sector than UI or hardware:

    • You still need iTunes to put on music and video files on the phone (aka buggy resource-intensive software with very confusing UI)
    • Still unable to have internal memory operate as mass storage without jailbreaking (which voids your warranty)
    • Metal housing still bends
    • Continuous refusal from Apple to use similar I/O like other smartphones, meaning MicroUSB or at least USB 3.0
    • If rumours turn out to be true about iPhone 7, the removal of the 3.5mm headphone jack is another

    Yet in spite of all this people still buy it, even if it's at the top of the totem pole in terms of pricing (sure, until iPhone SE came out, but most part of sales still come from the normal iPhone), this is why economics wasn't worth going over, keeping to the theme of this post.
    05-29-16 04:24 AM
  20. Loc22's Avatar
    You left out 'priced too high'.
    Yes, I agree with you. I loved to try the Priv but it's MYR 600 more than the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge. I can do a lot with that amount of money.

    Posted via CB10
    05-29-16 05:51 AM
  21. kvndoom's Avatar
    The things that contributed to the Priv not selling:

    • The idiotic name BB chose for the product ("Priv"). Someone needs to be slapped across the face for that.


    All other issues are extremely minor by comparison.


    Put me in line for that!

    Passport SE, "The BlockBerry" - Cricket Wireless
    05-29-16 06:36 AM
  22. aha's Avatar
    this is why economics wasn't worth going over, keeping to the theme of this post.[/B]
    The perceived value of iPhone, by a large percentage, is coming from psychology. When people praise Apple for their marketing campaigns, you can't ignore the fact that they play with human psychology way more than their competitors.

    Again, OP didn't deny there are economics elements in the disappointing Priv sales, he just wants to talk about the psychology elements... which is actually refreshing.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2876
    neoberry99 likes this.
    05-29-16 10:29 AM
  23. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    Plus, it is not gluten-free ...
    donnation and JeepBB like this.
    05-29-16 10:34 AM
  24. FF22's Avatar
    And you misspelled "judgment."
    Who are we to "judg"

    Judgement or Judgment?

    "The OED still prefers judgement, but acknowledges judgment as a variant spelling.

    That venerable pronouncing dictionary by Daniel Jones covers both bases by printing the entry word as judg(e)ment.

    Merriam-Webster prefers judgment and lists judgement as a variant.

    The words abridgement/abridgment and acknowledgement/acknowledgment follow the same British/American dichotomy as judgement/judgment."
    aha, JeepBB, Sigewif and 1 others like this.
    05-29-16 11:06 AM
  25. fschmeck's Avatar
    These things might mean this to people in here, but not the general public. To the general public Blackberry means outdated, irrelevant, or out of business. Not to mention it means the Storm, the Playbook, and old BBOS phones that they wouldn't think of using now.
    ^This.

    My summary of how people grew to ignore BBery is:
    1) their old phone was a BB. They grew to hate it (battery pulls, slow, battery would not hold a charge and they didn't realize it eventually would need changing)
    2) they saw the iPhone at the time and their struggling BB was instantly out of date
    3) every BB since seemed the same to them. BB was in their mind old, and every new phone added nothing to make them think otherwise.
    4) and now they don't even know BB still makes phones.

    I personally think the PKB was a necessity with the Priv, otherwise it would just be another "me too" device. Imagine how many they could have sold at $500 instead of $800...

    Maybe if they get a Classic or similar form factor with a PKB, at a decent price, something can still happen.


    Posted via CB10
    05-29-16 11:40 AM
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