07-18-08 09:36 AM
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  1. Arninetyes's Avatar
    Patrick,

    A question. But first -

    I've always wondered about the wisdom of pulling a battery from an operating electronic device - not just the Blackberry. People claim it does no harm. You say it does, and I'm inclined to believe you. I surely don't pull the battery on my laptop unless there is absolutely no choice (naturally, my Windows laptop HAS made that necessary a couple of times).

    Everyone talks about battery pulls being "necessary" on the Blackberry.

    But, doesn't the key combo for " soft reset" (alt+right shift+delete) accomplish the same thing without the jolt to the electronics? Or, does the battery pull do something more - besides the obvious ability to reset a completely locked device?

    Thanks for your help.
    07-17-08 07:54 AM
  2. JazzeeJEF's Avatar
    Thanks for the info....Now if I can only remember to this on a regular basis.
    07-17-08 07:57 AM
  3. patrick.waugh's Avatar
    Patrick,

    A question. But first -

    I've always wondered about the wisdom of pulling a battery from an operating electronic device - not just the Blackberry. People claim it does no harm. You say it does, and I'm inclined to believe you.
    Most people don't know what a PN junction layer is, and how sensitive it is to transient voltages either. =)

    And, it is only once in a while that you'll trash memory with a pull resulting in a need to reinstall the OS - rare, but it's happened.


    I surely don't pull the battery on my laptop unless there is absolutely no choice (naturally, my Windows laptop HAS made that necessary a couple of times).
    Too funny!


    Everyone talks about battery pulls being "necessary" on the Blackberry.

    But, doesn't the key combo for " soft reset" (alt+right shift+delete) accomplish the same thing without the jolt to the electronics? Or, does the battery pull do something more - besides the obvious ability to reset a completely locked device?
    The battery pull does one thing more - removes ALL power. However, if your device implements the Shift-ALT-DEL function, then this should never be necessary.

    Pressing that key combination actually pulls a voltage on one of the pins of the microprocessor to ground, which forces it to reset completely, meaning load the OS from scratch from the flash memory.

    I'll try to write all this up on my site soon.
    07-17-08 08:07 AM
  4. JazzeeJEF's Avatar
    OMG I just did this and it made my memory go up tremendously.

    I havent had this much file free in so long. NO matter what I deleted off my blackberry. Now I can go back to adding themes again.

    Thanks!!!!!
    07-17-08 08:11 AM
  5. Arninetyes's Avatar
    Patrick,

    Thanks so much. I'll be looking for your writeup.
    07-17-08 08:15 AM
  6. jerry12's Avatar
    Event log said a warning but I still deleted it does it do any harm? I picked up 1 mb.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-17-08 08:19 AM
  7. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    OMG I just did this and it made my memory go up tremendously.

    I havent had this much file free in so long. NO matter what I deleted off my blackberry. Now I can go back to adding themes again.

    Thanks!!!!!
    At least I do have some members that love me!! Thanks Jazzee!!
    07-17-08 08:21 AM
  8. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Of course everybody is respectful and polite. Just look at his avatar Pic!! Ain't nobody in their right mind gonna come into Creed's house and misbehave!
    Thanks Adam, and by the same token, you're CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!
    07-17-08 08:28 AM
  9. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Pete,



    A battery pull does not invoke anything, it simple removes power and clears memory just like when you turn off the power on your PC.

    Actually, there is so much mis-information in this thread that I'll probably write an article on my blog and put something in the Berrysoft wiki on this as I get time later this month.

    What you need to know as a user is that what is reported as "File Free" is NOT the actual amount of memory available to your blackberry software. It is only that amount of memory which is currently free (not requiring garbage collection).

    Things basically work like this... a program needs to create an object, so it asks the JVM (java virutal machine aka the OS) for some memory. The JVM allocates the needed memory from "the heap", and reduces the amount of "file free" reported. Sometime later, in a well behaved program, the object is destroyed and the memory is thus put on the curb waiting for the garbage collector to recover it. If available memory gets low, OR your device becomes idle, OR you manually invoke it (OS 4.5), the GC (garbage collector) gathers all the memory and returns it to the free store heap, thus increasing the "file free" reported.

    Keep in mind that the JVM automatically looks after memory for you, and there is no need for you to do the sorts of things mentioned in this post. Why? Because, if you get low in memory, the JVM automatically will start to delete unnecessary things like your log, old emails, etc. In other words, there is no point whatsoever to manually clear your log, or pull your battery.

    In fact, pulling your battery is actually harmful to the electronics, and you should ONLY do so if you have to (like the device is locked up).

    I personally have NEVER pulled the battery on my personal 8820 - EVER!

    Although we are really busy finalizing version 2 of the crackberry launcher, and our first release as well as launching all of our sites, you'll want to stay tuned to our blog, site, and eventually our wiki.

    Things are really crazy right now for us as we setup the backend CRM, Project management, support desk, etc. in preparation for product launches, but I'm going to try to make time to post some cool content on the blog.
    This guy calls my family's thoughts as well as mine MIS-INFORMATION!!! For your information guy, we have a bunch of smart people on this site and for you to call anything they had to say MIS-INFORMATION, you're TOTALLY OUT OF LINE!!! All of us here explain different scenarios to each other but we have never called anyone MIS-INFORMED!!! I think you need to make an apology to all of us for your mockery!!
    07-17-08 08:57 AM
  10. Kronk's Avatar
    This guy calls my family's thoughts as well as mine MIS-INFORMATION!!! For your information guy, we have a bunch of smart people on this site and for you to call anything they had to say MIS-INFORMATION, you're TOTALLY OUT OF LINE!!! All of us here explain different scenarios to each other but we have never called anyone MIS-INFORMED!!! I think you need to make an apology to all of us for your mockery!!
    I think you need to switch to decaff. Saying someone is misinformed is hardly an insult. Calling someone stupid, idiotic, or dumb is an insult that deserves and apology. As a programmer, Patrick has knowledge on the subject that most of us don't have. So unless you and your family are programmers that can provide information that conflicts with his, his words are worth heeding.

    By the way, most of the "smart people on this site" agree with him.
    07-17-08 09:09 AM
  11. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    I think you need to switch to decaff. Saying someone is misinformed is hardly an insult. Calling someone stupid, idiotic, or dumb is an insult that deserves and apology. As a programmer, Patrick has knowledge on the subject that most of us don't have. So unless you and your family are programmers that can provide information that conflicts with his, his words are worth heeding.

    By the way, most of the "smart people on this site" agree with him.
    If that's the case, explain to me why everyone's memory jumped sky high from doing that process than it would from a simple battery pull??????????? Better yet, if you don't know, ask Patrick to explain it!! All I know is a lot of my family in the BB community is happy and they did not do it from a SIMPLE battery pull!! Thing's that make you go hmmmm!!!
    07-17-08 09:20 AM
  12. bmcclure937's Avatar
    I think you need to switch to decaff. Saying someone is misinformed is hardly an insult. Calling someone stupid, idiotic, or dumb is an insult that deserves and apology. As a programmer, Patrick has knowledge on the subject that most of us don't have. So unless you and your family are programmers that can provide information that conflicts with his, his words are worth heeding.

    By the way, most of the "smart people on this site" agree with him.
    Exactly Very well put, I could not have said it any better Kronk!

    If that's the case, explain to me why everyone's memory jumped sky high from doing that process than it would from a simple battery pull??????????? Better yet, if you don't know, ask Patrick to explain it!! All I know is a lot of my family in the BB community is happy and they did not do it from a SIMPLE battery pull!! Thing's that make you go hmmmm!!!
    Because the testing you have done is flawed. It does not take into consideration other things and the general understanding of BlackBerry memory and memory cleaning is tainted. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything of the sort!! Tell me, you deleted this log and then pulled the battery to recover all of this memory... so how do you know if the event log clearing recovered all of it? You don't, because the battery pull caused to OS to be loaded fresh from memory... and the memory is freed up since nothing has been allocated to it yet! I am fairly certain the event log was not a whopping 6Mb in size, other factors have to come into play

    And, the event log should be automatically cleaned by your Berry anyhow if you are in need of memory. You should not manually have to clean it... and the event log would be cleared to free up memory before any messages or call logs!!
    07-17-08 09:27 AM
  13. Kronk's Avatar
    Actually, when I first read this thread I tried it as well. Checked Status to view memory, cleared the log, checked Status again, no change, pulled battery, checked Status a third time, and my memory was exactly where it would normally be after doing a pull. I gained absolutley nothing by doing this.

    Patrick has explained it. Here and other threads. I still don't get 100% of what he's saying, but I have gained a greater understanding of how it works. In fact, even he stated that yes, some memory is allocated to the log, which as I understand it is your main argument here. I'm not sure how him agreeing with you is an insult. I'm pretty sure the "misinformation" comment was directed at several posters here, and not towards you and your family.
    07-17-08 09:28 AM
  14. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Actually, when I first read this thread I tried it as well. Checked Status to view memory, cleared the log, checked Status again, no change, pulled battery, checked Status a third time, and my memory was exactly where it would normally be after doing a pull. I gained absolutley nothing by doing this.

    Patrick has explained it. Here and other threads. I still don't get 100% of what he's saying, but I have gained a greater understanding of how it works. In fact, even he stated that yes, some memory is allocated to the log, which as I understand it is your main argument here. I'm not sure how him agreeing with you is an insult. I'm pretty sure the "misinformation" comment was directed at several posters here, and not towards you and your family.
    mcclure and kronk, there is another unsolved mystery here is what I'm trying to get you both or anyone else to realize. True Kronk, you and McClure did not get major changes in your Berries because the both of you kept them up as well. What about the people that didn't know what we knew and possibly had their Berry for close to a year and may not even have done that?? Mcclure, you said yourself that had you thinking about what if!! Did you not?? All I'm doing guys is giving another avenue of approach about where the memory is going and nothing more. I've had people post on this site about 6 megs being recovered and it was not being done by just a batt pull. I found this out through people doing an IM to me!! Yes myself and as well as you guys WILL NOT get what the other people received when they did this because we do other things!! As I've said before, I don't think that I'm off base with this!! By the way Kronk, I do drink decaff!! Sweet tea that is, no coffee.
    07-17-08 09:50 AM
  15. BostLabs's Avatar
    I have a Pearl; how can I do this? I really need to free up memory!
    Hold down the lower left key. It looks like a couple of arrows on my pearl. While holding that key type lglg. That will bring up the log. I usually do this from the home screen.

    The Java VM doesn't release used memory very well when you close an app. A lot of OS have this issue to some extent. Especially if the application isn't written in such a way to try to release memory on objects it creates.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by BostLabs; 07-17-08 at 09:55 AM.
    07-17-08 09:51 AM
  16. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Hold down the lower left key. It looks like a couple of arrows on my pearl. While holding that key type lglg. That will bring up the log. I usually do this from the home screen.

    The Java VM doesn't release used memory very well when you close an app. A lot of OS have this issue to some extent. Especially if the application isn't written in such a way to try to release memory on objects it creates.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Make sure it's the ALT key, and not the one that says cap when you hold it down.
    07-17-08 10:09 AM
  17. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    Sorry, just realized that you can do that from your home screen. Point taken!!
    07-17-08 10:13 AM
  18. BostLabs's Avatar
    The cap key is on the lower right on my pearl next to the return key. In text mode, like in the message, the alt key switches to number or upper placed characters like the comma and question mark.

    No worries! I'm just trying to help like a lot of the others.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-17-08 10:22 AM
  19. Kronk's Avatar
    True Kronk, you and McClure did not get major changes in your Berries because the both of you kept them up as well.
    Honestly, I had never even looked in that log before this, much less cleaned it. But that's beside the point. The point was that you called him out for something that isn't even an insult. I'm comfortable with the fact that he knows more about it than I, or most of us, do. I learn what I can to try to help others, but one of the most important things I've learned is that when someone comes along that knows more about something than I do, I need to shut up and listen.
    07-17-08 10:24 AM
  20. inkwell's Avatar
    OMG I just did this and it made my memory go up tremendously.

    I havent had this much file free in so long. NO matter what I deleted off my blackberry. Now I can go back to adding themes again.

    Thanks!!!!!
    Have you been closing your apps, not just hitting end? And have you visited Stoners' thread?

    This guy calls my family's thoughts as well as mine MIS-INFORMATION!!! For your information guy, we have a bunch of smart people on this site and for you to call anything they had to say MIS-INFORMATION, you're TOTALLY OUT OF LINE!!! All of us here explain different scenarios to each other but we have never called anyone MIS-INFORMED!!! I think you need to make an apology to all of us for your mockery!!
    Like everyone said, and just to add one more thing, he didn't call you out about being misinformed, he said the thread had a lot of misinformation. I think it's unfair of you to call him out like that when he is simply educating us on what he knows.

    I think you need to switch to decaff. Saying someone is misinformed is hardly an insult. Calling someone stupid, idiotic, or dumb is an insult that deserves and apology. As a programmer, Patrick has knowledge on the subject that most of us don't have. So unless you and your family are programmers that can provide information that conflicts with his, his words are worth heeding.

    By the way, most of the "smart people on this site" agree with him.
    agreed

    If that's the case, explain to me why everyone's memory jumped sky high from doing that process than it would from a simple battery pull??????????? Better yet, if you don't know, ask Patrick to explain it!! All I know is a lot of my family in the BB community is happy and they did not do it from a SIMPLE battery pull!! Thing's that make you go hmmmm!!!
    I've done what you said in the begining and after testing it out further, the battery pull did more for me than your actual method. it really seems that just having apps open (without hitting "close") is more of the problem than anything. But I am so glad you started this thread, a lot of things are being "corrected" and solved because of it. Thank you.

    Honestly, I had never even looked in that log before this, much less cleaned it. But that's beside the point. The point was that you called him out for something that isn't even an insult. I'm comfortable with the fact that he knows more about it than I, or most of us, do. I learn what I can to try to help others, but one of the most important things I've learned is that when someone comes along that knows more about something than I do, I need to shut up and listen.
    agreed
    07-17-08 10:43 AM
  21. cousinb's Avatar
    I have to say I'm confused by all the conflicting info on this thread.

    The idea fascinated me, so I followed Apollo's instructions including the battery pull. I went from 21mb free to 24mb free.

    Obviously I had plenty of free memory without doing this, but I was surprised how full my log was and how much memory I recovered since I have only had my phone less than a month and am a relatively light user.

    I am not sure when to repeat the procedure, and am especially unsure about the battery pull part given some of the posts here.
    07-17-08 10:57 AM
  22. bmcclure937's Avatar
    Honestly, I had never even looked in that log before this, much less cleaned it. But that's beside the point. The point was that you called him out for something that isn't even an insult. I'm comfortable with the fact that he knows more about it than I, or most of us, do. I learn what I can to try to help others, but one of the most important things I've learned is that when someone comes along that knows more about something than I do, I need to shut up and listen.
    I grow more and more fond of you after every post!! And we have extremely similar mind-sets!
    07-17-08 10:59 AM
  23. bmcclure937's Avatar
    I have to say I'm confused by all the conflicting info on this thread.

    The idea fascinated me, so I followed Apollo's instructions including the battery pull. I went from 21mb free to 24mb free.

    Obviously I had plenty of free memory without doing this, but I was surprised how full my log was and how much memory I recovered since I have only had my phone less than a month and am a relatively light user.

    I am not sure when to repeat the procedure, and am especially unsure about the battery pull part given some of the posts here.
    The more accurate process to nail down how much memory the log is taking up would be to reset your device, not the memory, clear the log, reset again... and then note the difference after that, if I am understanding correctly. But other seems to think just clearing the log and doing a battery pull tells you the amount of memory recovered from the event log.


    And I agree that this thread has conflicting info Just read what Patrick says, he is the most knowledgeable!
    07-17-08 11:01 AM
  24. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    The cap key is on the lower right on my pearl next to the return key. In text mode, like in the message, the alt key switches to number or upper placed characters like the comma and question mark.

    No worries! I'm just trying to help like a lot of the others.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    We do appreciate that BostLabs!! Thanks for your input!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-17-08 11:01 AM
  25. Apollo_Creed's Avatar
    I have to say I'm confused by all the conflicting info on this thread.

    The idea fascinated me, so I followed Apollo's instructions including the battery pull. I went from 21mb free to 24mb free.

    Obviously I had plenty of free memory without doing this, but I was surprised how full my log was and how much memory I recovered since I have only had my phone less than a month and am a relatively light user.

    I am not sure when to repeat the procedure, and am especially unsure about the battery pull part given some of the posts here.
    Not to say that it's really conflicting Cousin B, but u have a lot of ways to clear things on your Berry and I'm glad that my idea was one of the ones to work for you. I'm not in any competition with anyone here first and foremost. A lot of these guys has good ideas. Some people think that I tried to call Patrick out which wasn't the case. My point being is if everyone can give something on how to do something on your Berry and it works just a little in any kind of way, how can anyone call anyone MIS-INFORMED?? We've had some newbies that has come along and taught us things like using your t button to go back to the top while visiting a web page. Very simple, but I didn't know that. I had learned from that and I did appreciate it. It wasn't about me!! I said my family meaning the CB family that had some input that they felt could help but yet one person say that they're mis-informed and I'm supposed to stand by and let that go!!! Give me a break!!!! Nothing towards you cousin B, I just needed to vent a little. Thanks buddy!! Hit me up anytime!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-17-08 11:20 AM
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