01-12-12 11:13 PM
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  1. app_Developer's Avatar
    Funny, I thought RIM had 75 million subscribers already. Or are we talking USA only?
    Samsung sold 35 million smartphones is just the past quarter alone. So they clearly shot way past RIM, even outside of the US. The "we're only losing in USA" excuse fell apart months ago.

    (RIM is projecting 12 million units for the current quarter, 14 for last quarter. Those are sell-in numbers. The gap gets wider and wider each passing quarter.)
    decypher44 likes this.
    01-11-12 01:48 PM
  2. brucep1's Avatar
    Funny, I thought RIM had 75 million subscribers already. Or are we talking USA only?

    I personally don't think RIM needs to be 1st. For the better part of it, they aren't because of bad choises they made. Which leads us BACK TO THE TOPIC of the way the media is treating them.
    I keep getting confused by your posts. You keep saying how RIM made bad choices , but then complain that the media is too harsh on them. You know those points are related right?
    01-11-12 02:13 PM
  3. palmless's Avatar
    The PC platform race resulted in one platform winning (Windows) and one honorable mention (Mac). Everyone else got left in the ditch (Amiga, OS/2, Be, etc.) or fell into a narrow niche (team Linux)

    So far the mobile race has one clear leader (team Android), one in a respectable second place (iOS). The leader after the first lap (RIM) is quickly falling back into a race for third. And only now are they finally starting to understand why they lost the lead so abruptly.

    But until they start closing the gap on the leaders (35 million smartphones from Samsung this quarter, and probably 30 million iPhones and 10+ million iPads), no one outside of their fanbase is going to take RIM seriously yet.

    Yet!
    Two points to add:

    1. Do not count Amiga out. Go to Amiga forums, those folks still think the media is giving Amiga a bad rap and that no competing platform has even caught up with Amiga yet. It's haunting, really, some of the familiar phrases.

    2. Team Android combined, all makers, is earnng about 1/4 of the gross profit that single member team iOS is making from mobile devices. So we need a little clarity about the scorekeeping... is a win millions of cheap BOGO Android phones that will never run the current OS and most of which will never generate aftermarket revenue in order to eek out a unit win, or is it money, they stuff you deposit in the bank.
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-11-12 02:20 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    2. Team Android combined, all makers, is earnng about 1/4 of the gross profit that single member team iOS is making from mobile devices. So we need a little clarity about the scorekeeping... is a win millions of cheap BOGO Android phones that will never run the current OS and most of which will never generate aftermarket revenue in order to eek out a unit win, or is it money, they stuff you deposit in the bank.
    Fair enough, yes. We do contract development for banks, media companies, governments. For those types of projects, Android is slowly becoming priority 1a, with iOS being 1b. Just because of sheer numbers, and the IT guys who think of themselves as "too cool" for iOS.

    But we also do game work, and paid app work, and for those iOS is clearly still #1. Their customers actually buy stuff.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-11-12 at 02:27 PM.
    01-11-12 02:25 PM
  5. Branta's Avatar
    Fair enough, yes. We do contract development for banks, media companies, governments. For those types of projects, Android is slowly becoming priority 1a, with iOS being 1b. Just because of sheer numbers, and the IT guys who think of themselves as "too cool" for iOS.

    But we also do game work, and paid app work, and for those iOS is clearly still #1. Their customers actually buy stuff.
    So... what you're saying is that Android is proving to be an uneconomic fizzle for third party developers? That's about the impression I got too, with the majority of open market users never using apps or only interested in "freeware" or "cracked payware".

    They get the quality for which they paid
    diegonei likes this.
    01-11-12 02:37 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    So... what you're saying is that Android is proving to be an uneconomic fizzle for third party developers? That's about the impression I got too, with the majority of open market users never using apps or only interested in "freeware" or "cracked payware".
    No, no, not at all. For ad-supported models it works very well. And certainly for value-add apps that augment an existing service the Android market works great.

    (Other than I hate Java, and that's why I'm procrastinating right now instead of approving all this ugly Java code )

    But, no, economically it works fine. It's just very different from Apple's store.

    If you have an app that you expect to sell standalone, then, yes, Apple's store is still quite a bit better for that. Their customers all have cards on file, no matter what country, no carrier billing nonsense, and for whatever reason they hit that buy button much more readily. Much less friction.
    01-11-12 02:53 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    See, the vibe I got from the admittedly limited number of developers I know personally is that BB users NEVER buy software... IOWs, free or bust.

    I know I have spent more since switching, but that may because there are more apps.
    01-11-12 03:01 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    See, the vibe I got from the admittedly limited number of developers I know personally is that BB users NEVER buy software... IOWs, free or bust.

    I know I have spent more since switching, but that may because there are more apps.
    I expect that to change with newer devices. People with older devices typically tried apps, but their devices lacked sufficient memory to run the apps. When I used a 9000, I had to delete apps/shrink the OS if I wanted new apps. The battle with the low memory wasn't worth it.
    01-11-12 03:56 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    See, the vibe I got from the admittedly limited number of developers I know personally is that BB users NEVER buy software... IOWs, free or bust.

    I know I have spent more since switching, but that may because there are more apps.
    That is my partner's theory of self-selection. He believes that BB users are still BB users precisely because they aren't app buyers and don't think of what is in their hand as a personal computer.

    If they were app buyers, then they would have moved on from BB by now given how RIM has so famously drug their feet on this. So therefore, we should focus on Android and iOS users exclusively, because those users have already voted with their feet and money and said "we want apps". That's why they are Apple and Google customers already.

    I get the logic, but I still plan to make an app or two when Cascades is out (probably under my own name), just because I like getting my hands dirty with new technology. It's fun. And if RIM can't get their stuff together, it could be even more fun.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-11-12 at 04:11 PM.
    01-11-12 04:09 PM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Again, I think Blackberry owners don't buy apps due to bad experiences with apps on old devices.

    I bought DocumentsToGo Premium for my 9000 before I was aware of the memory limitations of the device, and how much memory the app used.
    01-11-12 04:15 PM
  11. MBA_STOCKDOGS's Avatar
    The media doesn't like Rimm because of the security. They can't hack their way in to get their next scandalous story.
    Dapper37 likes this.
    01-11-12 11:07 PM
  12. teeuwen's Avatar
    That is my partner's theory of self-selection. He believes that BB users are still BB users precisely because they aren't app buyers and don't think of what is in their hand as a personal computer.

    If they were app buyers, then they would have moved on from BB by now given how RIM has so famously drug their feet on this. So therefore, we should focus on Android and iOS users exclusively, because those users have already voted with their feet and money and said "we want apps". That's why they are Apple and Google customers already.

    I get the logic, but I still plan to make an app or two when Cascades is out (probably under my own name), just because I like getting my hands dirty with new technology. It's fun. And if RIM can't get their stuff together, it could be even more fun.

    are you kidding me? move to ios and android develop an app and try to make a living off of it.

    nearly every iphone / android user i have met to this day has never bought an app for their phone. ad supported apps, demos, free app of the days. the app worlds on these markets has become hugely devalued.

    the corolation between blackberry users not being app buyers is simply false!
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    01-12-12 12:52 AM
  13. Hypnoboy's Avatar
    I think you might find this interesting. When RIM had it's outage this past year, the local news here in L.A. was doing a story about it, and this photo is part of the stock footage they showed.

    http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u.../CrapBerry.jpg

    So apparently, it's 2004. Sweet. Seriously, can you imagine them doing a current story about Apple and showing us an iMac G3 or a Newton? This story happend AFTER the release of the new BB7 phones. You have to look at that and wonder why they would show THIS image as their stock footage.
    recompile likes this.
    01-12-12 02:26 AM
  14. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    I think you might find this interesting. When RIM had it's outage this past year, the local news here in L.A. was doing a story about it, and this photo is part of the stock footage they showed.

    http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u.../CrapBerry.jpg

    So apparently, it's 2004. Sweet. Seriously, can you imagine them doing a current story about Apple and showing us an iMac G3 or a Newton? This story happend AFTER the release of the new BB7 phones. You have to look at that and wonder why they would show THIS image as their stock footage.
    The stock footage the Memphis media used was worse. It was of the really old softball sized BBs. It was the 62xx models.
    01-12-12 08:38 AM
  15. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    are you kidding me? move to ios and android develop an app and try to make a living off of it.

    nearly every iphone / android user i have met to this day has never bought an app for their phone. ad supported apps, demos, free app of the days. the app worlds on these markets has become hugely devalued.

    the corolation between blackberry users not being app buyers is simply false!
    Have you looked at the gross revenue for paid apps on ios? If so you would be singing a different tune. I believe that there are more free apps on android, so that's probably why many of its users don't buy apps. The profit potential is huge for developers that design apps for iOS/android, hence why they flock to those os's first.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    01-12-12 08:39 AM
  16. George__'s Avatar
    The media is bashing based on the mistake(s) of RIM.
    01-12-12 09:10 AM
  17. palmless's Avatar
    nearly every iphone / android user i have met to this day has never bought an app for their phone. ad supported apps, demos, free app of the days. the app worlds on these markets has become hugely devalued.
    Anecdote doesn't hold up well against Google Search.

    iOS users are spending metric tons of money on apps, and Apple is paying developers billions of dollars as their share.

    But that could be just Google's well-known anti-RIMM bias at play.
    01-12-12 10:02 AM
  18. Rickroller's Avatar
    The only people I know who don't buy apps, are mostly teens or kids who are on their parents bills, and / or don't have a CC of their own to pay for things. Any adult I know (even cheapskates), will shell out money for a well made or useful app.
    01-12-12 10:06 AM
  19. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    When the big news out of CES 2012 is that RIM's tablet from 2011 now has email, you can expect to take a hit for that. I understand why the 2.0 upgrade seems like a big deal to those invested in the product. But take a look at CES as a whole. The industry is trying to produce notebooks like Apple's, voice interface like Apple's, smart TVs like they think Apple will produce.

    No one is trying to do email on a tablet. How does that get coverage? The industry is not moved by one's efforts to port Android apps. Using one device to type on another device is interesting, I suppose. But you can dictate into an iPhone to type on a Mac. Even that is not news. If you close off your world to just Crackberry, then 2.0 is a big deal and a very nice upgrade. When considered with the rest of the world of tech, it does not fare so well.

    There is no conspiracy. There is just a lot going on in the world of tech of which RIM seems to be unaware.
    Then play book was the only tablet missing native pim. Even cheapo android knockoffs had that functionality so I'm boggled by your statement that no one is trying to do email on a tablet. Native pim is commodity functionality as is active sync connectivity on smartphones, another area where they fail and why I cannot buy another blackberry at the moment.

    The playbook failing is 100% rims fault. And 2.0 won't save it. It will just make fans who deal with it out of brand loyalty or need feel placated or more justified in their purchase.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    01-12-12 12:09 PM
  20. dandbj13's Avatar
    Then play book was the only tablet missing native pim. Even cheapo android knockoffs had that functionality so I'm boggled by your statement that no one is trying to do email on a tablet. Native pim is commodity functionality as is active sync connectivity on smartphones, another area where they fail and why I cannot buy another blackberry at the moment.

    The playbook failing is 100% rims fault. And 2.0 won't save it. It will just make fans who deal with it out of brand loyalty or need feel placated or more justified in their purchase.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
    I apologize for my lack of clarity. What I meant was that no one is focusing on a feature that has already become a commodity. They have moved on to more interesting things. It would be like a new car maker advertising that they finally have included a stirring wheel.
    01-12-12 12:41 PM
  21. HabsSuck's Avatar
    I'm really getting sick of people making excuses. Marketing, media bias, etc.

    The ultimate responsibility for this whole disaster lies with RIM. Blame whoever else you want, but RIM is the number 1 culprit for this fiasco.

    No excuses, they dropped the ball.
    True enough but when is it time to stop rehashing old news, RIM messed up the Playbook launch, it never should have been released without email, calendar, etc...but now it is almost here and still the negative spin, enough is enough and we're not going taken anymore....................................
    01-12-12 02:58 PM
  22. HabsSuck's Avatar
    When the big news out of CES 2012 is that RIM's tablet from 2011 now has email, you can expect to take a hit for that. I understand why the 2.0 upgrade seems like a big deal to those invested in the product. But take a look at CES as a whole. The industry is trying to produce notebooks like Apple's, voice interface like Apple's, smart TVs like they think Apple will produce.

    No one is trying to do email on a tablet. How does that get coverage? The industry is not moved by one's efforts to port Android apps. Using one device to type on another device is interesting, I suppose. But you can dictate into an iPhone to type on a Mac. Even that is not news. If you close off your world to just Crackberry, then 2.0 is a big deal and a very nice upgrade. When considered with the rest of the world of tech, it does not fare so well.

    There is no conspiracy. There is just a lot going on in the world of tech of which RIM seems to be unaware.
    typical you only see what you want to see, how about all the other new features that were communicated on OS2.0?

    Blackberry balance?
    Using a blackberry as a remote control?
    Unified inbox?

    and the boatload of apps that are coming in a months time
    01-12-12 03:18 PM
  23. HabsSuck's Avatar
    Samsung sold 35 million smartphones is just the past quarter alone. So they clearly shot way past RIM, even outside of the US. The "we're only losing in USA" excuse fell apart months ago.

    (RIM is projecting 12 million units for the current quarter, 14 for last quarter. Those are sell-in numbers. The gap gets wider and wider each passing quarter.)
    so you are implying that only a few hardware vendors can survive?

    I wonder what people will think if the rumours are true that BB10 will be licensed to Sumsung, HTC and LG?
    01-12-12 03:23 PM
  24. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    typical you only see what you want to see, how about all the other new features that were communicated on OS2.0?

    Blackberry balance?
    Using a blackberry as a remote control?
    Unified inbox?

    and the boatload of apps that are coming in a months time
    All fantastic, but can you understand why these may not be considered particularly innovative (particularly to people on other platforms)?
    01-12-12 03:28 PM
  25. Economist101's Avatar
    so you are implying that only a few hardware vendors can survive?

    I wonder what people will think if the rumours are true that BB10 will be licensed to Sumsung, HTC and LG?
    As always, it would depend on how successful the products are. As an example, WP7 is on both Samsung and HTC, and it's not getting any traction at all, while Android continues to sell very well on both.
    01-12-12 03:46 PM
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