01-12-12 11:13 PM
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  1. christenmartin's Avatar
    Look at the amount of money spent on marketing by Apple versus RIM. The bulk of that money goes to media companies. You think positive news can't be bought? Apple expects a good return on the money they give to media companies.
    That is exactly right. Apple spends millions upon millions for advertising with media. They're not going to bit the hand that feeds them. I was watching ces coverage on spike and they were having a discussion on best cell phone, iphone or "everything else". They didn't even mention any other names. That is what Apple does well, advertise. It seems to me though that they have peaked and are just trying to get the must out of the original Iphone design. A good product but I don't think the best anymore.
    jamesbondOO7 likes this.
    01-11-12 09:17 AM
  2. VerryBestr's Avatar
    I don't think this is a conspiracy, I think it's just plain old-fashioned piling on. ... I think even RIM's CES announcement is not going to be taken seriously yet until they actually ship the product and bring their sales numbers up. ... If RIM gets a new face, and turn things around, the same mindless technorati will be piling on their success and filling pageviews repeating that same "Blackberry is back!" story again and again. That's just unfortunately how it works, now RIM needs to take advantage of that.
    I think that is exactly right. That is the way the press works, and there is furious competition in the online press for page views. The RIM story line ("how the mighty have fallen") attracts viewers.

    There may also be satisfaction in some quarters that RIM is getting its comeuppance. It's amazing how many times I've seen "arrogance" associated in the past with RIM, its officers, its employees, its recruiters, its image ...

    There are some other aspects of this story.

    RIM has traditionally worked through its "partners": operators (esp in the US) and other resellers. I think these partners have mainly handled the advertising, not RIM. The terrific ad campaign which changed RIM's image in India was, I believe (although I may be wrong here), mainly run and financed by RIM's distributor in India.

    In any case, RIM has very little history in trying to manage its image, especially in the US. It essentially surrendered management of its image to its partners. I even get the impression that RIM is not quite sure about what kind of image it wants to project.

    RIM could use a "truth squad" and some sophistication in dealing with the US tech press.

    Also, RIM doesn't seem to know how to benefit from its fan base -- there certainly are RIM fans, and they could be better organized and "deployed" to help RIM with the tech press and its image.
    01-11-12 09:23 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    @rr, Sure I would always like a little more, I'm currently very satisfied with my BlackBerry products, Why is it that I have to feel assulted watching the evening news?
    Well, you could sort of not take it personally.

    RIM used to be a successful company (maybe they will be again), and like most successful companies, they picked up quite a dedicated fan base over the years. And just a quick count of the locations of members of this forum shows that this fan base is particularly strong in RIM's home country (for obvious and understandable patriotic reasons).

    But I hope you would agree that fans of a company are not really any less biased than bloggers. Fans of Apple are the same way, Google, Microsoft, Porsche, Manchester United, and RIM. I see a lot of similarities in being, let's say, "easily impressed" by accomplishments and dismissive of advantages that competitors have made for themselves. Fans also tend to forget about mistakes easily, like when RIM came out a year ago and boldly dismissed Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, and Google as "amateurs".

    So then when things aren't going well, we all turn to the old conspiracy canard. "Why does ESPN want my team to lose? It's all their fault and their biased! We should all boycott Disney!"

    Again, the Playbook was announced one year ago at CES, and BBX even before that. To be fair, they haven't really come along very far since then. 2011 was a lost year, and they really, really, really could use a new face and a reboot of their brand to make it back in 2013. You don't have to be biased against RIM to notice this.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-11-12 at 09:42 AM.
    01-11-12 09:34 AM
  4. Economist101's Avatar
    Its been understood for a long time now the the mainstreem media has had it out for RIM, for a long time. How it is that it gets to go on for so long unchecked is beyond me.
    Todays article in Bloomberg RIM seen as to late with email to compete with apple is just another example of the medias attemt to debrand RIM. Forever repeating the old drum beat of their precieved negatives. Never talking of the new software services from RIM and what they can do.
    So when they have the ear of the world, but they back their home team with an invisable campain I call the "perseption attack", against RIM, what can be done.
    If the mainstreem media does this everyday, why just get mad at techcrunch?
    I take it no spellcheck on the PlayBook yet, but the absence of an apostrophe key is surprising.

    As always, your argument would be a lot more compelling if RIM weren't dealing with sales declines, poorly received products and poor strategic decisions. But feel free to continue to ignore those facts, and instead just blame the media, who apparently found a way to get RIM to release the Storm and the PlayBook in a condition which fell below RIM's typically high standard in a massive conspiracy to "debrand" the company, a conspiracy they've all somehow managed to execute without leaving any actual evidence of it beyond RIM's cratering stock price.
    avt123 likes this.
    01-11-12 09:38 AM
  5. Economist101's Avatar
    Someone said something that made sense to me a few days ago. It may not be true and relevant to this topic. But it does have to do with debranding RIM. The 9930 sold for 199.99 originally. It is now, or recently went up to 229.99. Could Verizon be trying to prevent people from buying blackberry devices and moving to android and iphone instead? Does it make sense or is the original guy who said this and myself looking way too far into the details?
    Why stop there? What about that $2 fee Verizon wanted to charge for one-time payments? Maybe they have research that says BlackBerry users tend to favor those payments, but iPhone users don't.

    As for your question, here's an logical explanation. Apple's carrier agreement fixes a localized price ceiling, as well as Apple's subsidy. As a result, carriers can't up the price over the set amounts, nor can they lower the subsidy, so the price remains fixed. RIM, on the other hand, lacks this degree of leverage, which is why Verizon's logo is plastered on every RIM device (and Android as well) and why the pricing appears less fixed.
    01-11-12 09:50 AM
  6. Dapper37's Avatar
    Just because some are clever at explaining everything through their perception, doesn't change the fact. Reporting on old aspects of RIM and never reporting on the new services the company is delivering for their customers is biased.
    kbz1960 and recompile like this.
    01-11-12 10:24 AM
  7. dandbj13's Avatar
    Just because some are clever at explaining everything through their perception, doesn't change the fact. Reporting on old aspects of RIM and never reporting on the new services the company is delivering for their customers is biased.
    Which new services would you have the media focus on? Which one of RIM's initiatives compare well with other initiatives on the market or featured at CES?
    01-11-12 10:30 AM
  8. diegonei's Avatar
    You all hate to hear this, but it's the truth. RIM has made a lot of HUGE mistakes over the past few years. HUGE. The "media" doesn't have it out for RIM. They are reporting what's really going on, and you just don't like the news. Heck, if an actual BB owner, who happens to love his/her BB, posts something here critical of RIM (eg. Me), you call them a "troll".
    Not quite so. Did RIM drop the ball when they refuse to ackowledge touchscreens and apps? Yes. Should they have changed to a new OS by then? Yes. (List could go on for a while). We're not blond sheep, oblivious to the bad ideas and missed opportunities.

    Point here is: They are trying to turn the ship around. And they are showing that it can not only be done, but in a way they will be able to compete head-to-head.

    Let me be the one to bring Palm into scene. Did Palm get half the bashing when it was going down? In fact, everyone was kimda hoping it would somehow fimd a way out of that mess.

    Why is it RIM has to get the chair? Why does the media have to push the idea that RIM will fail till it is true?
    01-11-12 11:28 AM
  9. palmless's Avatar
    The PlayBook native email we've seen is pretty neat and innovative. I guess it shows when it comes to communication, RIM is hard to meet and has yet to be beat.
    Well, in sort of a sad "My unreleased but demo'd product currently installed on .1% of my teeny, tiny base does what your product does on the version installed on 80% of it's huge base".

    From that standpoint, PB email FTW, I guess.

    Has RIMM really been reduced to that? "We RULEZ messaging, just look at this demo of what we're going to ship soon... NATIVE EMAIL! Still some Playbooks left folks, how about February 1 we do $249 for any size and we'll use 12v cords instead of packing peanuts just to move 'em out of inventory"

    People clap along to that? For how long?
    01-11-12 11:50 AM
  10. brucep1's Avatar
    Not quite so. Did RIM drop the ball when they refuse to ackowledge touchscreens and apps? Yes. Should they have changed to a new OS by then? Yes. (List could go on for a while).

    Why is it RIM has to get the chair? Why does the media have to push the idea that RIM will fail till it is true?
    Answered your own question in your own post, just needed some deleting.
    01-11-12 11:54 AM
  11. dandbj13's Avatar
    Let me be the one to bring Palm into scene. Did Palm get half the bashing when it was going down? In fact, everyone was kimda hoping it would somehow fimd a way out of that mess.
    I couldn't agree more on this point. The media was definitely cheerleading for Palm with no good reason other than bias that I could tell. Every single move Palm made for the past two years was worse than the last. Still, all that sympathetic media did not change Palm's fortunes one iota.

    I suspect the media is a bit weary of rooting for the underdog at the moment, especially one that is bent on making the same mistakes. The time for getting a free pass from the media is over. The media stuck their necks out for Palm, only to have them chopped off. Their not about to do it again for RIM.
    01-11-12 11:56 AM
  12. brucep1's Avatar
    Just because some are clever at explaining everything through their perception, doesn't change the fact. Reporting on old aspects of RIM and never reporting on the new services the company is delivering for their customers is biased.
    No media channel is going to act like all is fine and dandy with Blackberry because they demoed a software update.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-11-12 11:58 AM
  13. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    When the big news out of CES 2012 is that RIM's tablet from 2011 now has email, you can expect to take a hit for that. I understand why the 2.0 upgrade seems like a big deal to those invested in the product. But take a look at CES as a whole. The industry is trying to produce notebooks like Apple's, voice interface like Apple's, smart TVs like they think Apple will produce.

    No one is trying to do email on a tablet. How does that get coverage? The industry is not moved by one's efforts to port Android apps. Using one device to type on another device is interesting, I suppose. But you can dictate into an iPhone to type on a Mac. Even that is not news. If you close off your world to just Crackberry, then 2.0 is a big deal and a very nice upgrade. When considered with the rest of the world of tech, it does not fare so well.

    There is no conspiracy. There is just a lot going on in the world of tech of which RIM seems to be unaware.
    Nah, it's easier to believe that there are shadowy people around who meet at night to plot the downfall of Canadian tech companies. I completely agree: for us here, 2.0 is great news. In the grand scheme of things? It is not much. Think about it... what did 2.0 bring to the table that may drag someone over to RIM products (and if you say "bridge" you may be as oblivious to the issues RIM is facing as RIM is).

    We need to understand that the Playbook is all but a footnote in a fast-moving tech environment dominated by Apple. No need to feel ostracized; so is everyone else.

    Let me be the one to bring Palm into scene. Did Palm get half the bashing when it was going down? In fact, everyone was kimda hoping it would somehow fimd a way out of that mess.
    Where you ever a member at Brighthand? Palm took major lumps when RIM passed them by, and more when Apple came on the scene.
    01-11-12 12:01 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    No media channel is going to act like all is fine and dandy with Blackberry because they demoed a software update.
    And this is what it is. For PB owners, it is major; for the rest of the world, it may not be considered innovative at all.

    There is still a disconnect with regards to RIM and consumers.
    01-11-12 12:04 PM
  15. kbz1960's Avatar
    RIM could cure cancer and they would be bashed for too many people living longer.
    01-11-12 12:04 PM
  16. Dapper37's Avatar
    Nah, it's easier to believe that there are shadowy people around who meet at night to plot the downfall of Canadian tech companies. I completely agree: for us here, 2.0 is great news. In the grand scheme of things? It is not much. Think about it... what did 2.0 bring to the table that may drag someone over to RIM products (and if you say "bridge" you may be as oblivious to the issues RIM is facing as RIM is).

    We need to understand that the Playbook is all but a footnote in a fast-moving tech environment dominated by Apple. No need to feel ostracized; so is everyone else.

    Very clever, Back to the point, if RIM is so insignificant, Why does the media even bother coming back to kick the dead horse. The race is far from over, The world is not going to one platform.
    01-11-12 12:30 PM
  17. decypher44's Avatar
    OK true believers... Go to any major tech site right now. I prefer Engadget, you can pick your own. Go through all of the press releases, announcements, opinions, everything. Nearly every new application, accessory or new innovative piece of tech will have the following blurb..."for your iOS or Android phone", or "for your iPad or Android tablet". Nearly every single one. RIM, and their BBs, are being left far behind. Don't take my word for it. Leave the protective bubble of CB and see for yourself.
    01-11-12 12:36 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Very clever, Back to the point, if RIM is so insignificant, Why does the media even bother coming back to kick the dead horse. The race is far from over, The world is not going to one platform.
    Who says RIM is insignificant?

    And I am a bit confused. Are you saying the media should not report about RIM at all?
    01-11-12 12:41 PM
  19. GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
    I'm really getting sick of people making excuses. Marketing, media bias, etc.

    The ultimate responsibility for this whole disaster lies with RIM. Blame whoever else you want, but RIM is the number 1 culprit for this fiasco.

    No excuses, they dropped the ball.
    The voice of reason. Thank you.

    RIM has failed to meet deadlines constantly. The PlayBook was delayed. BBX is delayed. Everything is delayed. I know that the vast majority of people on CB are pleased with their BB devices.

    The media isn't biased against RIM. They don't care if RIM fails or if RIM comes back thriving with the release of BBX in November or whenver it is that it's released. When all you seem to do are negative things, what else can they report? Like Bruce said, RIM dropped the ball. They failed to keep up with the competition and now they're suffering for it. There is nothing positive with that.
    01-11-12 12:44 PM
  20. undone's Avatar
    OK true believers... Go to any major tech site right now. I prefer Engadget, you can pick your own. Go through all of the press releases, announcements, opinions, everything. Nearly every new application, accessory or new innovative piece of tech will have the following blurb..."for your iOS or Android phone", or "for your iPad or Android tablet". Nearly every single one. RIM, and their BBs, are being left far behind. Don't take my word for it. Leave the protective bubble of CB and see for yourself.
    Of course, why would you develop a java app only to have to port it in the near future to the qnx html 5 whatever (I am not a dev), way too much work. You just wait and try out the Android port and see if it works. Anyway you can pretty much say the same for any OS vendor that made a massive switch from its underlining OS to something completely different. Vendors tend to stop making stuff for you until the air clears.
    01-11-12 12:54 PM
  21. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Didn't RIM make the "mistake" of hyping and releasing 3 products that were basically unfinished or underpowered when they first came out?

    1st Storm
    9800 with BB6
    Play Book

    I think people tend to remember the history of a comoany's mistakes and when you see so many new things coming out of CES, why should people(who dont onw a Play Book) get all that excited when your biggest news is 2.0 for a tablet that was released in April? And everyone at CES knows that RIM won't have a new phone for another 8+ months, meanwhile others are showing off some amazing new phones now.

    RIM has hurt themselves pretty bad in the last few years by announcing things only to delay them for months, and I think people hear whatever they announce now and think, fool me once, shame on me...

    Until RIM actually releases something exciting and somewhat new, I don't see the press giving it all that much attention in a positive light.

    I think news of new tech, hardware, software, sales numbers, etc... are what get hits to your articles in the news and on tech blogs. While the negative press is unfortunate and unfair(though sometimes true), not releasing a new product for months and showing OS 2.0 months after promised only hurts your image. Especially when Motorola, Google, Apple, Samsun, Nokia, HTC, SONY, etc... are showing off new products now or soon will be.


    War Is All We Know
    01-11-12 12:56 PM
  22. diegonei's Avatar
    Answered your own question in your own post, just needed some deleting.
    So very like you to ignore what does not serve you.
    01-11-12 01:27 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    Very clever, Back to the point, if RIM is so insignificant, Why does the media even bother coming back to kick the dead horse.
    Well, you should be careful what you wish for. I just did a quick check of cnet and techcrunch and gizmo, and between the 3 and their scores of CES stories, is just one front page link to a story on Blackberry.

    What would be worse for RIM than negative stories? No stories at all.

    The race is far from over, The world is not going to one platform.
    I agree. But RIM did put their car into a wall a few laps ago, all the while calling all the drivers on the lead lap "amateurs". Oh, and even more strangely, whilst sitting in the pit getting repairs, they kept insisting they had "leapfrogged" all the other racers. (huh?!)

    The PC platform race resulted in one platform winning (Windows) and one honorable mention (Mac). Everyone else got left in the ditch (Amiga, OS/2, Be, etc.) or fell into a narrow niche (team Linux)

    So far the mobile race has one clear leader (team Android), one in a respectable second place (iOS). The leader after the first lap (RIM) is quickly falling back into a race for third. And only now are they finally starting to understand why they lost the lead so abruptly.

    But until they start closing the gap on the leaders (35 million smartphones from Samsung this quarter, and probably 30 million iPhones and 10+ million iPads), no one outside of their fanbase is going to take RIM seriously yet.

    Yet!
    Laura Knotek and VerryBestr like this.
    01-11-12 01:29 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    No media channel is going to act like all is fine and dandy with Blackberry because they demoed a software update.
    This. ^^

    All of the other companies were showing off brand new products (hardware and software), not a software update for last year's hardware.
    GingerSnapsBack and howarmat like this.
    01-11-12 01:32 PM
  25. diegonei's Avatar
    Funny, I thought RIM had 75 million subscribers already. Or are we talking USA only?

    I personally don't think RIM needs to be 1st. For the better part of it, they aren't because of bad choises they made. Which leads us BACK TO THE TOPIC of the way the media is treating them.

    TechCrunch just made it obvious.

    Now Zack from BGR, gave a pretty fair report on OS2. And of course, the regulars are giving him cr*p for not doing a proper bashing...
    01-11-12 01:37 PM
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