10-09-13 05:55 AM
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  1. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    What's making me weary here is all the bashing, period. I get that BB10 doesn't meet everyone's needs (not even legacy BB users). I get that the "ecosystem" has holes compared to the other established ones. That does NOT mean that it's a poor choice for all users.

    BB10 is decent and competitive for a fairly broad swath of users. Why the insistence that it has to immediately be 100% competitive with ecosystems that are funded by much bigger companies with much deeper pockets? If that is the standard we're going by, how will any new competitor ever be able to enter the marketplace?
    Blackberry squandered their position by focusing on niche instead of mainstream. This has nothing to do with newbies.

    If the newbies want to compete, then they need to bring their A Game or partner with the right entities. Being late has disadvantages, and rightfully so.

    Even the poorest choices are good for some users, so the ALL semantics does not matter to me. In this market its about establishing broad appeal, not limiting yourself to super small niches.

    BlackBerry's userbase didn't help them either, and were wildly unreliable for them in the transition to BB10.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Unbiased Tech and JeepBB like this.
    10-07-13 03:53 PM
  2. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry abandon all but a niche market. I'm saying that given their size, and resources, that if they can find a way to tread water with a niche market FOR NOW, why is that such an unreasonable notion?

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    10-07-13 04:02 PM
  3. OzarkaTexile's Avatar
    Latest sales figures show at least modest growth, though negative press may be enough to bring that to a halt, too.
    The latest sales figures show declining sales for both BB7 and BB10. Negative press has nothing to do with BBRY "growth". They've been operating at a loss for over a year and the BB10 launch accelerated that trend.
    JeepBB and Unbiased Tech like this.
    10-07-13 04:13 PM
  4. Rickroller's Avatar
    I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry abandon all but a niche market. I'm saying that given their size, and resources, that if they can find a way to tread water with a niche market FOR NOW, why is that such an unreasonable notion?

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    I guess that's up to BBRY to decide whether that is a viable option for them or not. If they figure they can stay in the hardware and software game only selling potentially 10-20 million smartphones a year (without steadily declining) then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. However..those consumers who choose to buy BB will need to come to grips with the facts that no amount of feet stomping, boycotting, and general temper tantrums will make developers want to develop for a small "niche" user base.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 now Free
    kbz1960 and Unbiased Tech like this.
    10-07-13 04:18 PM
  5. wincyUt's Avatar
    People these days are being very unrealistic when they expect "flawless" major software updates.
    10-07-13 04:26 PM
  6. ppeters914's Avatar
    . Advertising products...... doesn't seem to be a focus right now.
    IMO, part of the reason BBRY is in this mess is because advertising & marketing was never a thought, much less a focus.

    It's as if owning a BlackBerry makes one better than others
    You mean it's not????!!!!!
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-07-13 07:19 PM
  7. litig8or98's Avatar
    Reading some posts today and laughing at the fact that so many people are slating BlackBerry it gives Mr great pleasure to bring attention to these unhappy Apple customers : )
    ...
    Have a good read and hope these raise a few smiles : )

    Posted With Z10 Via CB10
    Sorry...what's that now?

    It baffles me why so many angry apple fans/owners won't give the BB10 platform a try?
    But the reason why I mainly posted this is to shoe that Apple even since all the 6 years experience with their iOS are still making errors yet the BB10 platform is an awesome platform and only 8 months old. In all fairness there has been little in the way of bugs and already a new Z30 launch with what appears to be an excellent update with 10.2. So with this in mind it makes me laugh when I see people slating BlackBerry yet 'golden boy' apple is making some serious screw ups.

    Posted With Z10 Via CB10
    Shoe??? I don't understand.

    If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd wonder if you were a Samsung shill, paid to make auto-correct errors, and then have "Z10" in your signature.

    We all make errors...I've likely made more than my share. But if the point is to pump up the brand, make sure the message is clear, particularly if typing from the device in question.
    10-07-13 07:49 PM
  8. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry abandon all but a niche market. I'm saying that given their size, and resources, that if they can find a way to tread water with a niche market FOR NOW, why is that such an unreasonable notion?

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    For them, maybe not.

    For consumers, yes, it's unreasonable.
    10-07-13 08:27 PM
  9. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    Sloppy UI

    break a leg with how brutal iOS7 is
    10-07-13 09:00 PM
  10. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Sloppy UI

    break a leg with how brutal iOS7 is
    Everyone's got an opinion.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...i-ugly-761777/

    It's the internet. I can find someone that's critical of just about anything. In this case, I didn't even have to leave this site.
    10-07-13 09:45 PM
  11. Blacklatino's Avatar
    IMO, part of the reason BBRY is in this mess is because advertising & marketing was never a thought, much less a focus.


    You mean it's not????!!!!!
    No argument here.
    10-07-13 09:53 PM
  12. Skandalous1's Avatar
    I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry abandon all but a niche market. I'm saying that given their size, and resources, that if they can find a way to tread water with a niche market FOR NOW, why is that such an unreasonable notion?
    Because once a company starts reporting smartphone losses, there is no niche market in which to tread.

    Not unreasonable so much as untenable.
    10-07-13 09:58 PM
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    The latest sales figures show declining sales for both BB7 and BB10. Negative press has nothing to do with BBRY "growth". They've been operating at a loss for over a year and the BB10 launch accelerated that trend.
    Estimates suggest BB10 sales of 700k in Q1, 1.2 mil in Q2, and maybe 1.7 mil in Q3. I won't try to argue that these are quantities that can sustain the company, but it's at least a modest progression.

    And bad press absolutely has an impact on sales. I've spoken to several people who wish the company well, but they're too worried about BB's survival to actually commit to a BB10 phone.
    10-08-13 02:00 AM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Because once a company starts reporting smartphone losses, there is no niche market in which to tread.

    Not unreasonable so much as untenable.
    Oh, sure, burst my bubble...

    I follow the industry, I know the history, and the odds. I think there's still cause for hope here; it's a good enough platform that if BB can get it into the hands to find enough users it will find more than a niche market.

    They need to price competitively and promote extensively, and they may actually have a chance. Otherwise, sure, they might as well close up shop and save their cash.
    10-08-13 02:09 AM
  15. birdman_38's Avatar
    Estimates suggest BB10 sales of 700k in Q1, 1.2 mil in Q2, and maybe 1.7 mil in Q3. I won't try to argue that these are quantities that can sustain the company, but it's at least a modest progression.
    One model to choose from in Q1, two models in Q2, three models in Q3. Of course it's going to progress somewhat.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-08-13 02:36 AM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    One model to choose from in Q1, two models in Q2, three models in Q3. Of course it's going to progress somewhat.
    I did the very basic math in another thread:

    The thing that I find sad, is that this means that they have sold an average of 566k units per model this quarter.
    That's just abysmal...

    If the trend of increasing sales continues exactly like that, then we would see 2.175 Million devices sold next quarter.
    This would correspond to an average of 543k per model, the Z30 now included.
    This number is extremely close to the the average of sales per device from the other quarter.

    The conclusion that seems logic, is that the increase of sales is heavily linked to the number of models they have available.
    That makes one think...

    Because BlackBerry said that they'd abondon the plans to make 6 devices per year, for one where they make 4.
    If their growth is heavily influenced by their models available, as I suspect, it would mean that it's actually the wrong decision to not make more than 4 different models.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-08-13 at 04:28 AM.
    10-08-13 04:05 AM
  17. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    What's making me weary here is all the bashing, period. I get that BB10 doesn't meet everyone's needs (not even legacy BB users). I get that the "ecosystem" has holes compared to the other established ones. That does NOT mean that it's a poor choice for all users.

    BB10 is decent and competitive for a fairly broad swath of users. Why the insistence that it has to immediately be 100% competitive with ecosystems that are funded by much bigger companies with much deeper pockets? If that is the standard we're going by, how will any new competitor ever be able to enter the marketplace?
    Yes, BB10 is nice.
    My Z10 is pretty nice.
    The app situation is everything else, but nice.

    I live in Switzerland, which means that apps like Netflix or Hulu are worthless for me.
    What I need are business apps and local apps.
    With Android and iOS having a 4-5 year head start, this automotically means that not only the big named apps are there, no, it actually means that smaller and local apps are also there.

    When your platform launches 5 years too late, there is a LOT of work to do, so that you can catch up to the big boys.
    For me, the bigger hindrance to use my Z10 as the best tool avalaible, is the lack of local and popular apps.
    This is actually very logical and the smaller the market, the lesser localised apps I will have with BB10.

    But this makes it even harder for BB10 to sell.
    In North America, they lack IG, Netflix, Candy Crush etc...
    Which are deal breakers for a lot of people.
    But in the rest of the world, they lack even more.
    In some countries, as in, the one with the most cellphone subscribers worldwide, BB10 is inexistant and therefore local apps mostly are that, as well.

    I don't know about the other guys, but I never expected BlackBerry to be able to fully compete in a very short amount of time, but I expected them to handle the app situation in a far better way.
    The S4BB app spam, roughly representing 1/3 of all available apps for BB10, is just embarrassing for BlackBerry.
    Now there are Android ports and other useless apps in BBW as well, so the number of really good and useful apps is even far smaller, especially when you need apps for a local market that isn't a main target for BlackBerry.

    As a whole, I am not sure if BlackBerry really understood how incredibly hard it will be, to compete with Android and iOS.
    Their rather lunatic pricing strategy, that still continues with the Z30 (and got its epitome with the Q5), their inability to provide basic apps the consumer expects and their inability to attract "local devs" from smaller countries, are all signs of arrogance and/or incompetence.

    Posted via CB10
    Darlaten and JeepBB like this.
    10-08-13 04:27 AM
  18. birdman_38's Avatar
    When your platform launches 5 years too late, there is a LOT of work to do, so that you can catch up to the big boys.
    I've never heard that said before. Makes a lot of sense.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-08-13 08:02 AM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I've never heard that said before. Makes a lot of sense.
    I know, this was the most obvious part
    But there are some users who forget that BlackBerry's task was/is a gargantuan one.

    This actually goes for both sides of the argument, as the rather positive users tend to forget, that one could have handled this late launch far better, especially through the public BB10 beta called PlayBook.

    The negative users always seem to downplay the incredible challenge BlackBerry is actually facing (reaching regional devs, for example).

    If you just wanted to hear it from me, well, here I've said it

    Posted via CB10
    10-08-13 12:15 PM
  20. Zedi Master's Avatar
    I understand your point.

    Mine was to state that my upgrade on both my iPhone and my iPad were absolutely lacking in drama.

    Blackberry is receiving criticism for a string of failures in execution. Delays to get the OS perfect them having random reboots is, no me, more impactful than a 40 minute delay in upgrading.

    Security features vs convenience of access is a personal choice available through selections in Siri and the control centre.

    It leaves me with no drama when compared to the randomly rebooting Z10 and the less than stellar battery life.

    I understand your point. I simply countered with mine.

    Cheers!
    And yet, I have not had any drama with my Z10. That must mean no one did. NOT

    Posted via CB10
    10-08-13 01:59 PM
  21. Undbiter65's Avatar
    Now this is hilarious.

    Apple pushes out an update that targets ALL (or nearly all) their devices sold since Q3 2010. iPhone 4 and up, iPad 2 and up. All at the same time, same day. A small percentage of users have issues and suddenly it's 'karma time' for some people here.

    BlackBerry releases an OS update for just ONE phone (Z10), takes months to trickle down to all paying customers, still retains bugs, spontaneous reboots etc...just one device and still we have issues.

    it took Apple days to issue out a patch for the lockscreen bypass security issues. Many BlackBerry customers had to wait months for the random reboot issue


    Nah, no contest here. There's a reason why Apple still posts the highest customer satisfaction ratings out there...and Blackberry still brings up the rear.
    Yup. Apple customer service is amazing. My respects to them for that. I've owned several Apple devices and whenever I had an issue, they reply to my email the next day with how to fix it. Amazing.

    "If you can't soar with the eagles, then don't fly with the flock!" (BBM#18)
    10-08-13 06:28 PM
  22. raggdoll's Avatar
    This should get dozens of people to switch ecosystems.
    Well, maybe not dozens, but I'm sure a few will
    10-08-13 09:20 PM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Well, maybe not dozens, but I'm sure a few will
    5-7 of the people I know pretty good, were diehard Apple fans, since the OG iPod.

    With iOS7 and the iPhone 5s, all of them decided to switch phone manufacturer, because they:

    A) Think that it looks like the OS has been designed for 7 year old girls.

    B) Don't see any innovation from Apple anymore (64 bit is not something that says "revolutionary" for the average customer).

    C) Want a bigger display, because they have seen the S4 and Note 2 from their co-workers.

    D) See no merit in Johnny Ive's Sloppy UI.
    http://sloppyui.tumblr.com/

    For them, Apple blew it with iOS7 and their new (or old, in case of the 5c) phones.

    But they aren't tempted to go down the BlackBerry route at all.

    Posted via CB10
    10-08-13 09:30 PM
  24. Breezygirl8's Avatar
    5-7 of the people I know pretty good, were diehard Apple fans, since the OG iPod.

    With iOS7 and the iPhone 5s, all of them decided to switch phone manufacturer, because they:

    A) Think that it looks like the OS has been designed for 7 year old girls.

    B) Don't see any innovation from Apple anymore (64 bit is not something that says "revolutionary" for the average customer).

    C) Want a bigger display, because they have seen the S4 and Note 2 from their co-workers.

    D) See no merit in Johnny Ive's Sloppy UI.
    http://sloppyui.tumblr.com/

    For them, Apple blew it with iOS7 and their new (or old, in case of the 5c) phones.

    But they aren't tempted to go down the BlackBerry route at all.

    Posted via CB10
    Yup, our thought on the whole Apple thing. Except my family switched to BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    10-08-13 09:56 PM
  25. xandermac's Avatar
    I'm hearing this more often from acquaintances of mine also. Especially "D"

    5-7 of the people I know pretty good, were diehard Apple fans, since the OG iPod.

    With iOS7 and the iPhone 5s, all of them decided to switch phone manufacturer, because they:

    A) Think that it looks like the OS has been designed for 7 year old girls.
    B) Don't see any innovation from Apple anymore (64 bit is not something that says "revolutionary" for the average customer).
    C) Want a bigger display, because they have seen the S4 and Note 2 from their co-workers.
    D) See no merit in Johnny Ive's Sloppy UI.
    Sloppy UI

    For them, Apple blew it with iOS7 and their new (or old, in case of the 5c) phones.

    But they aren't tempted to go down the BlackBerry route at all.

    Posted via CB10
    10-09-13 05:55 AM
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