[andy275]

Nowadays, compact smartphones (a display between 4 inches and 5 inches) are rare to find on sale.
And Apple has discontinued the iPhone SE (4 inch display) already, without announcing a successor.
I'm certain that there is a large enough market for compact smartphones, but smartphone manufacturers are just not releasing any good ones. Perhaps BBMo should jump in and release a decent compact smartphone.

As a side note:
I still use a Z10 since it is the perfect size for me. I already tried testing an iPhone 7 and it is just a little too big. The DTEK50 is around the same size as the iPhone 7 and I don't think it's compact enough for me either.

[Bbnivende]

The iPhone 7 is like a 1/4 of a inch taller is all. You are not being rational. The Dtek 50 is basically a 50 buck throw away phone now.

[danfrancisco]

I too would love a compact BB. For me, the Z30 was the optimal size. Lose the bezels for more screen real estate and you have a winner.

Alas, I don't see BBMo dabbling in the compact slab market any time soon. That's why Samsung's S10e seems like a compelling buy for me. Strong camera, compact-ish size (relative to what's out there today), good specs and IP68 rating. Slap the BB suite of tools on there along with that kick a$$ BB vkb and... voila! You have the BlackBerry S10e!

[OTCHRussell]

I liked the size of the Dtek50, or even the Z30. I would buy one with a great battery, good camera, etc. Right now, though, liking the Motion.

BB9000>Q10>Z10>Z30>Classic>Dtek50>Dtek60>Motion

[Invictus0]

The Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is a 2018 flagship that's only slightly taller than the Z10 but still smaller than the Z30.

[danfrancisco]

The Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact is a 2018 flagship that's only slightly taller than the Z10 but still smaller than the Z30.

I bought the Sony Xperia Z3 Compact in 2016 and loaded it up with the BB Suite plus vkb. It was a nice pocket-sized device but I ultimately moved on from it for the following reasons:

- Battery life was poor
- Sony skin of Android is very heavy and for someone who loves stock Android, it was very frustrating to navigate
- Maxed out at Android 6, no Nougat or Oreo
- Camera was surprisingly average, I was expecting more

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I'm certain that there is a large enough market for compact smartphones, but smartphone manufacturers are just not releasing any good ones. Perhaps BBMo should jump in and release a decent compact smartphone.

I'm certain that Android Manufactures are fighting for market share... if they saw "enough" of a market, they would go after it. With the iPhone SE, it's success were probable built more around the price than the small size. Which is why it's been discontinued.

Are there people out there that want a small phone... YES! But not all of them want a $1000 phone, not all want a $500 phone and not all want a $100 phone. And even fewer would want one with the BlackBerry taxes....

Better for BBMo to stick with PKBs...

[stlabrat]

smart phone demand is leveling off in developing country, but there is a major market on the horizon - off the grid cell towers that serve remote areas without wired connections. Such as Telefonica SA Spain with internet ParaTodos program that intend to connect 100 million offline people throughout Latin America. Although it let by two ex-googlers, hopefully, they see the overhead heavy droid OS is not suited for the task, something like BBOS modified would be the best for stripe down hardware (low cost) and software. BBMo may not have the expertise to do so (small, compact, cheap do not translated to "easy"). IMHO. (by the way, many of Latin America still uses BBOS or playbook, even some of those are hand me down type).

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

smart phone demand is leveling off in developing country, but there is a major market on the horizon - off the grid cell towers that serve remote areas without wired connections. Such as Telefonica SA Spain with internet ParaTodos program that intend to connect 100 million offline people throughout Latin America. Although it let by two ex-googlers, hopefully, they see the overhead heavy droid OS is not suited for the task, something like BBOS modified would be the best for stripe down hardware (low cost) and software. BBMo may not have the expertise to do so (small, compact, cheap do not translated to "easy"). IMHO. (by the way, many of Latin America still uses BBOS or playbook, even some of those are hand me down type).

BIS... didn't do much with web pages or streaming of content like movies and music, as those have already been optimized (compressed). BIS was great back in the days of text data which wasn't normally compressed. So in stead of sending a 25KB file you only sent a 5KB file. We have moved beyond the phase where data is measured in KB.

It's not DROID or iPHONE that are heavy data guzzlers... it the users that have changed what data they want access too. We have moved on to watching 1080P movies on our phones or listening to hours of music while downloading images from family and friends... each image equal to a 100 old email messages. Now in some ways DROID and iPHONE do use a lot of data trying to keep you connected and up to date.... but those features too can be turned off.

Data compression is not magic... it can be done without BBOS or BlackBerry. Those off grid or satellite providers have some tools already to achieve their goals. But the biggest tool is for users to adjust their usage - not change their devices.

[Troy Tiscareno]

There's not going to be anything remotely mainstream (even in South America or Africa) that isn't built on Android. It might just be the bones, like Kai OS, but it will be Android.

Sailfish is a hobby OS that requires that you buy a specific Android phone and then reflash it, and the company is under-capitalized and I suspect that they will lose their remaining funding by next year as investors realize that they are unlikely to ever make any real money.

Even Tizen is essentially dead - low-cost Android One phones killed it as they still have access to the entire app and service ecosystem.

The costs of developing and maintaining alternatives is just too high for the number of devices that will sell (by at least one, if not two orders of magnitude). The only way Android will be replaced is if Google phases it out in favor of a next-gen OS that retains backwards compatibility for a while (aka Fuscia).

[stlabrat]

agree to some extend. the remote place user will require different application and consideration (like the BBOS was designed for students and business). I can't see solar cell charge battery to support daily use of movie watching in HD. Not mention the users have time to do so or not (some still need to go out hunt for food daily and work from sun rise to sun down). market price info for produce, communication and use it as cash equivalent to pay produce and photo taking to validate transaction are the necessaties. the design criteria for that market will be different IMHO. (by the way, BBOS besides compression, also has many hitten features, such as if you send image to A and later want to forward to B, you do not need to upload image twice, like many other OS do).

[bh7171]

Nowadays, compact smartphones (a display between 4 inches and 5 inches) are rare to find on sale.
And Apple has discontinued the iPhone SE (4 inch display) already, without announcing a successor.
I'm certain that there is a large enough market for compact smartphones, but smartphone manufacturers are just not releasing any good ones. Perhaps BBMo should jump in and release a decent compact smartphone.

As a side note:
I still use a Z10 since it is the perfect size for me. I already tried testing an iPhone 7 and it is just a little too big. The DTEK50 is around the same size as the iPhone 7 and I don't think it's compact enough for me either.

Apple recently started production of the SE again. Sony also has a compact high end Android (unless you feel the 845 chip is "old") I would hope BlackBerry refrain from any additional all touch devices and own the PKB market. I have a S9 with BlackBerry HUB and VKB. It's a better all touch than BlackBerry Mobile can ever hope to produce and you can get one on a BOGO or even free on T-Mobile with a trade in. Samsung does not make anything like my BE KeyOne. And having used a 9700, 9900, Passport and Classic I believe my BE is exceptional and ergonomically idea. Almost the exact same size of my S9.

[bh7171]

I too would love a compact BB. For me, the Z30 was the optimal size. Lose the bezels for more screen real estate and you have a winner.

Alas, I don't see BBMo dabbling in the compact slab market any time soon. That's why Samsung's S10e seems like a compelling buy for me. Strong camera, compact-ish size (relative to what's out there today), good specs and IP68 rating. Slap the BB suite of tools on there along with that kick a$$ BB vkb and... voila! You have the BlackBerry S10e!

Yep- I have an S9 set up this way. BlackBerry Mobile needs to walk from slabs. Own the PKB and upgrade them for longer periods than other Android OEM's.

[the_boon]

Yep- I have an S9 set up this way. BlackBerry Mobile needs to walk from slabs. Own the PKB and upgrade them for longer periods than other Android OEM's.

That goes without saying, but it would also be interesting if other OEM's also do something different than slabs, which have been done to death now.

If I could describe in one word the current smartphone market, aside from BBMo and few other exceptions, it would be:

"Yawn"

[skrble]

I bought the Sony Xperia Z3 Compact in 2016 and loaded it up with the BB Suite plus vkb. It was a nice pocket-sized device but I ultimately moved on from it for the following reasons:

- Battery life was poor
- Sony skin of Android is very heavy and for someone who loves stock Android, it was very frustrating to navigate
- Maxed out at Android 6, no Nougat or Oreo
- Camera was surprisingly average, I was expecting more

WOW. Really surprised reading this. I used to have Z1 Compact, which is almost identical.

- could get up to 8 hours of SOT, excellent battery
- Sony UI was almost the lightest among all manufacturers at it's time, both Android 4 and 5. Never ever had any problems with it, always perfectly fluent. Just yesterday remembered it, I really miss it's design, pure Android 8 looks awful IMO
- yep, officially not. Standard one major OS update
- camera has been tragical on every Xperia device post Ericsson's leftover

[idssteve]

My fastest (double thumb) VKB type rate is on giant Dtek60. Faster than my excellent but "smaller" Z30. Which was faster than my smaller Z10. Size matters. Bigger VKB is demonstrably faster VKB. In my case at least. Easy enough to see why "compact" slabs haven't exactly dominated markets, yet. Imo.

That said, one option I can visualize considering for a cheap & easy "compact" slab might be to build one around "off the shelf" K1or2 screen? ?? Justa thought.


PKB, on the other hand (pun intended), is an entirely different animal. Slab thinking just doesn't apply well to PKB realities. My fastest type rate (ever) (single or two thumb) is on my most compact PKB Bold 9650. Next is slightly larger 9900. Then Q10, Classic, PassPort, K2LE, K2, K1. Each increase in size to K1 decreases my PKB type rate. Particularly single thumb. Other attributes of LE improved things from K1 but still no match for Bolds of yore. Lol. Compact is best suited to PKB, imo.

IMO, if you're going to design a typing optimal compact mobile handset, PKB already rules that niche. My compact PKB Bolds still out type rate my giant Dtek60 by double. Under MY thumb, at least. Compact 9900 out types my giant K2LE by a good 35-45%. Depending.

Problem with compact PKB is that screens sharing that limited space are necessarily tiny. Not a problem for folks like me who value compactness over "mobile theatre". Lol. My old eyes much prefer enjoying theatre Cast onto a 51" TV... Lol. So long as that tiny screen is paired with a trackpad for GUI navigation. Tiny screen touch GUI can be maddeningly frustrating withOUT a trackpad. Possibly the single biggest fail of Q10, imo. K1 supports bluetooth mouse pointer surprisingly well... why not trackkpad??

Yet, in effort to cast the widest user base, slider configurations "promise" uncompromised screenestate while affording relative compactness when PKB is retracted. Unfortunately, biggest fail with all existing, Priv style, sliders, imo, is that it must be extended to its largest footprint while typing! Exactly opposite of optimal, imo. Resulting top heavy c.o.g. negatively impacting PKB typing experience. IMO, it also hides the keyboard away, behind the display, making shortcut keys unavailable, while PKB is stowed away. .


A most optimal alternate configuration, tho, would be to stow the retracted PKB in FRONT of the lower portion of display... While typing. Much like the removable PKB available for S8+ ... But fitted on a slider mechanism onto a K sized display... See the S8+ removable concept below...


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SY400_.jpg


By my crude reckoning, just holding 9900 beside my K1, a front PKB slider might just afford opportunity to approximate 9900 exquisite compactness while retracted? (Top of K1 to top of its first row of keys does approximate overall length of 9900) Display might assume landscape 3:2 while pkb is retracted into optimal typing config? ??? As well as preserve full time PKB shortcut availability.

Then that "dream machine" could assume 3:2 (or??) portrait to afford more optimal screenestate while PKB is extended for surfing, etc. ??? While handset dimensions are least important?

Perhaps an exquisite 9900 KB & toolbelt might even be employed into such a slider ?? ???? Lol

Ah well... Fun to dream... Lol.

[anon(10512033)]

It might just be the bones, like Kai OS, but it will be Android.

Enjoying the discussion here. Just a point of clarification: KaiOS is based on Firefox OS, not Android.

In any case, Google has given them a bunch of cash and is committed to getting some basic Google apps on KaiOS because, you know, <sarcasm>it would be a tragedy to have a Google-free OS</sarcasm>.

Edit: as for Sailfish, there's some kind of financial partnership between Sailfish and the Russian government-owned Rostelecom. The Russians are developing Aurora OS from Sailfish (Aurora is a fork that is intentionally Android-runtime-free to insulate it from potential Western interference), so I suspect that they may continue to put money into Sailfish development so that they can continue to use it's core.

https://nokiamob.net/2019/02/09/sail...-os-in-russia/

[bb10adopter111]

One problem is that physical components (e.g., screens) become the tail that wags the dog. With TVs, it became cost prohibitive to produce high quality screens smaller than 42 inches because all the component makers went big and we're demanding a huge premium for smaller screens.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar issues with smartphone components such as screens and batteries that have made smaller form factors less economical.

And, of course, battery size constrains performance.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

One problem is that physical components (e.g., screens) become the tail that wags the dog. With TVs, it became cost prohibitive to produce high quality screens smaller than 42 inches because all the component makers went big and we're demanding a huge premium for smaller screens.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar issues with smartphone components such as screens and batteries that have made smaller form factors less economical.

And, of course, battery size constrains performance.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Agree the old "less should cost less" doesn't work in today's market where volume drives the prices.

Someone said Apple had restarted SE production, but I don't see anything the supports that. Last I saw they were looking at an LCD X/7 version to take the entry level position (X form factor with a 7's internals). The smaller form factor wasn't even being considered anymore. As you said... it probable would cost more to buy those smaller screens (and other components) than a larger one today... and it's the price and not the size that is most crucial for Apple and probable most OEMs.

I get some want it...

[bh7171]

Here you go https://www.macworld.com/article/333...cts-store.html

[Chuck Finley69]

Agree the old "less should cost less" doesn't work in today's market where volume drives the prices.

Someone said Apple had restarted SE production, but I don't see anything the supports that. Last I saw they were looking at an LCD X/7 version to take the entry level position (X form factor with a 7's internals). The smaller form factor wasn't even being considered anymore. As you said... it probable would cost more to buy those smaller screens (and other components) than a larger one today... and it's the price and not the size that is most crucial for Apple and probable most OEMs.

I get some want it...

How would X/7 differ from current entry XR lineup wise?

[conbrio29]

I too wish that BBM made a compact device. A Bold-sized sevice would be ideal but doubt that would ever happen. There's a growing movement of people wanting to minimalize their digital distractions so a smaller device would facilitate that.

Personally, I have gone from a KEY2 to now using as my daily driver: the Unihertz Atom! Doesn't get any smaller than that!

[Troy Tiscareno]

Someone said Apple had restarted SE production, but I don't see anything the supports that.

They didn't restart production - they are just clearing out old inventory so they're back on sale on the website until the inventory is depleted.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

They didn't restart production - they are just clearing out old inventory so they're back on sale on the website until the inventory is depleted.

Old inventory that has to be put on sale to move it... Explains a lot.

[Karan Riar]

I love my black key2 and the screen size,, though I'm hoping for a 5' screen in the key3 but I badly miss my old curve 8520 and the bold 9780. They're perfect in size and one handed use,, the other day I was looking for bold n curve models on amazon and I nearly ordered myself a new 9780 but as I just use one phone at a time with one Sim card,, it'd have been of no use to me since I rely heavily on my key2 as I'm a professional driver.