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09-08-19 01:26 AM
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  1. mrsimon's Avatar
    There are two points here, and I'm surprised these haven't been discussed in more depth

    Firstly, I'm surprised that Blackberry went with a Chinese company given the anti-Chinese sentiment and lack of trust that Chinese brands might cause: read "Hauwei". Would this be a deal-breaker reason that NA companies didn't want to buy them? We know it was for the US government. This seems important as we're talking about a phone for business people. I've kind of put it to the back of my mind due to being blinded by the BB logo and my desire to have a 'psuedo blackberry'. But thinking about it, I'd prefer a non-Chinese origin PKB or VKB phone. Don't get all offended on me!

    Looking on the internet, Wikipedia lists a bewildering number of phone brands I've never heard of. The majority are Chinese!

    So, let's say we're looking for a new NA-UK-EU friendly brand that is brave enough to take on a 'Blackberry' licence or even just launch a PKB phone on it's own, who would you choose?

    I'll start ok? I started thinking about it on another thread.

    I've wondered if Nokia has thought about a PKB, with or without a blackberry collaboration, especially as Nokia isn't a "toxic brand" AFAIK, and makes a feature phone range (e.g. the Banana phone !!) as well as it's Android "slab range" . It's also Finnish (good, right?), it has a heritage and I for one, would be happy to buy a Nokia PKB.

    What about you guys and gals?
    09-01-19 02:41 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Why do you imagine that there will be more licensees? BB couldn't make these phones profitably, and no surprise, 3 licensees couldn't make them profitably either with all the same costs and pressures PLUS the license fees. What would make some other company decide they could do what no one else could do, with a far smaller market than even 2.5 years ago?

    If TCL is done (and that seems very likely at this point), then BB-branded smartphones are done too.
    John Albert likes this.
    09-01-19 04:36 PM
  3. mrsimon's Avatar
    Troy, that's what I'm saying, another brand that isn't Blackberry. At the same time, this thread is just theoretical to kick around ideas. Nokia PKB. Will it sell less than their banana phone?
    09-01-19 05:05 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Troy, that's what I'm saying, another brand that isn't Blackberry. At the same time, this thread is just theoretical to kick around ideas. Nokia PKB. Will it sell less than their banana phone?
    Why do you think it's BlackBerry's choice to make? It's my understanding that TCL was the only taker last time around (except within India and Indonesian).
    09-01-19 05:11 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Nokia does not need the BlackBerry brand, the BlackBerry OS or even the BlackBerry PKB design. Foxconn can make cheap and good as well.

    Yes, Mrsimon is quite correct. There was a zero chance that Enterprise would ever embrace a Chinese PKB. No demand for a PKB and no demand for the BlackBerry OS. I think there was a falling out between BlackBerry and TCL long before today. You will recall John Chen saying that an OEM should redo the 9900 . That was pure BS. No way that Enterprise or regulated business would buy a 9900 . Then again, John Chen never understood mobile phones. Then there was Chen's put down of TCL's folding phone and 5G aspirations. How dare TCL think that their own brand was more prestigious than BlackBerry.



    A lot of folks here think that corporations always think and behave rationally. I think that both TCL and BlackBerry are controlled by individuals who have extremely large ego's and neither will ever admit that their past decisions are anything less than perfect. I suspect that both Chen and Dongsheng blame each other for the failure of the TCL - BlackBerry partnership. Chen might say that TCL products lack quality and Dongsheng probably feels that Chen oversold the value of the BlackBerry OS as a differentiator in the US market.
    09-01-19 05:37 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Nokia does not need the BlackBerry brand, the BlackBerry OS or even the BlackBerry PKB design. Foxconn can make cheap and good as well.

    Yes, Mrsimon is quite correct. There was a zero chance that Enterprise would ever embrace a Chinese PKB. No demand for a PKB and no demand for the BlackBerry OS. I think there was a falling out between BlackBerry and TCL long before today. You will recall John Chen saying that an OEM should redo the 9900 . That was pure BS. No way that Enterprise or regulated business would buy a 9900 . Then again, John Chen never understood mobile phones. Then there was Chen's put down of TCL's folding phone and 5G aspirations. How dare TCL think that their own brand was more prestigious than BlackBerry.



    A lot of folks here think that corporations always think and behave rationally. I think that both TCL and BlackBerry are controlled by individuals who have extremely large ego's and neither will ever admit that their past decisions are anything less than perfect. I suspect that both Chen and Dongsheng blame each other for the failure of the TCL - BlackBerry partnership. Chen might say that TCL products lack quality and Dongsheng probably feels that Chen oversold the value of the BlackBerry OS as a differentiator in the US market.
    I doubt Chen is or was involved in the deal, or that TCL HQ has even heard of BlackBerry.
    Last edited by conite; 09-01-19 at 07:33 PM.
    09-01-19 05:46 PM
  7. RK_BB's Avatar
    I doubt Chen is or was involved in the deal, and or that TCL HQ has even heard of BlackBerry.
    Make sense given the current affairs....
    09-01-19 06:45 PM
  8. dangerousfen's Avatar
    I can't see Nokia getting involved in this shenanigan. it's such a tiny populous that even wants a PKB, why would they even give it consideration?
    09-01-19 08:04 PM
  9. eshropshire's Avatar
    HMD Global pays good money to Nokia to license a great name like Nokia to use for their phones. Why would they want to license a name like BlackBerry?
    John Albert likes this.
    09-01-19 09:15 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    HMD Global pays good money to Nokia to license a great name like Nokia to use for their phones. Why would they want to license a name like BlackBerry?
    Met a woman this weekend who used to work for Blackberry (she mentioned that, when she saw me still carrying a BB10 phone). Even though she was part of the great layoffs after the awesome Blackberry BB10 OS didn't get off the ground fast enough for investors; She waxed poetic about Blackberry and said it was the best company she ever worked for. It was such a good company in her words, employees were well treated.

    ....oh back to the point.......besides BlackBerry is the greater name than Nokia.
    09-01-19 09:34 PM
  11. SeeBeeEss's Avatar
    Sadly, TCL just finished what Jim, Mike, Thorsten and John started. The road to ruin had already been set long before the maker of cheap Chinese electronics took up the BlackBerry mantle.
    RK_BB, the_boon and cribble2k like this.
    09-01-19 09:40 PM
  12. zer0ten's Avatar
    Meh, BlackBerry doesn't deserve to exist in the smartphone realm anymore. They've been treating their customers like crap for the last decade. Lie after lie, delay after delay, lack of updates, lack of communication, terrible customer support, overpriced and poor quality hardware....they did it to themselves.

    They had the market by the balls in 2007-08....they had an astronomical lead and they completely blew it.
    09-01-19 09:48 PM
  13. RK_BB's Avatar
    Meh, BlackBerry doesn't deserve to exist in the smartphone realm anymore. They've been treating their customers like crap for the last decade. Lie after lie, delay after delay, lack of updates, lack of communication, terrible customer support, overpriced and poor quality hardware....they did it to themselves.

    They had the market by the balls in 2007-08....they had an astronomical lead and they completely blew it.
    THIS!
    zer0ten likes this.
    09-01-19 10:04 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Meh, BlackBerry doesn't deserve to exist in the smartphone realm anymore. They've been treating their customers like crap for the last decade. Lie after lie, delay after delay, lack of updates, lack of communication, terrible customer support, overpriced and poor quality hardware....they did it to themselves.

    They had the market by the balls in 2007-08....they had an astronomical lead and they completely blew it.
    1) BB left smartphones end of 2016
    2) BB wasn’t consumer facing company. Originally, BBOS devices and BIS through your carrier and that was your consumer interface
    3) Hardware was always to support BIS and wasn’t overpriced as it was heavily subsidized through carriers so consumers would subscribe to BIS and pay BB monthly revenue through carriers.
    4)Once Android/iOS came along in 2007/2008, it was the beginning of the end for BB and their wasn’t anything to be done. Their business model was vertical integration of software/hardware that was obsolete in the new carrier data model. There wasn’t a plausible available response. It’s why BB10 was always destined to be the epic fail it eventually became.
    pdr733, CNR1 and rthonpm like this.
    09-01-19 10:37 PM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    1) BB left smartphones end of 2016
    2) BB wasn’t consumer facing company. Originally, BBOS devices and BIS through your carrier and that was your consumer interface
    3) Hardware was always to support BIS and wasn’t overpriced as it was heavily subsidized through carriers so consumers would subscribe to BIS and pay BB monthly revenue through carriers.
    4)Once Android/iOS came along in 2007/2008, it was the beginning of the end for BB and their wasn’t anything to be done. Their business model was vertical integration of software/hardware that was obsolete in the new carrier data model. There wasn’t a plausible available response. It’s why BB10 was always destined to be the epic fail it eventually became.

    Hard to see the cliff on the other side of the hill.

    https://www.engadget.com/amp/2008/11...-storm-review/
    09-02-19 01:29 AM
  16. mrsimon's Avatar
    Why do you think it's BlackBerry's choice to make? It's my understanding that TCL was the only taker last time around (except within India and Indonesian).
    Where did I say "Blackberry's choice to make?" My point is that any other brand that is not Blackberry or Chinese may be a better alternative to the TCL-BB partnership. eg. Nokia.
    The tone of recent threads and posts is leaning towards the view that the end is nigh for this partnership.
    Just interested to hear alternatives, if indeed there are any. 😎
    09-02-19 04:14 AM
  17. John Albert's Avatar
    Nokia brand is kicking back and in the first half if 2019, it is among the top 100 brands in the world.
    HMD Global sales numbers for Q2 is up 20% with 5 million smartphones and 16 million feature phones sales numbers.

    Nokia brand doesn't need BlackBerry in anything.
    If Nokia wants to release a PKB phone, they can easily revive the E-Series, which had very great phones.

    Regardless the hugely controversial reasoning, people here need to understand that BlackBerry brand is very toxic and dead and no company or group of people want to use it anymore at this point.
    The brand is unfortunately a synonym of failure , obsolescence, and outdated minds.

    Please, admit this FACT!
    Yes, it is a pure FACT now!
    Last edited by John Albert; 09-02-19 at 05:19 AM.
    TgeekB, RK_BB, pdr733 and 1 others like this.
    09-02-19 05:05 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Hard to see the cliff on the other side of the hill.

    https://www.engadget.com/amp/2008/11...-storm-review/
    I’ve always said that BB executives knew the cliff was there and went for broke milking BIS revenues as long as possible. The industry was against BB mostly for the BIS greed which BB was just doing it’s job. The executives had the parachutes for their BASE jump when BB10 “failed” as if that wasn’t known from business revenue perspective.
    09-02-19 01:10 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Really they should call the next big Florida storm “BlackBerry”.
    the_boon likes this.
    09-02-19 01:20 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Really they should call the next big Florida storm “BlackBerry”.
    For the Bahamas right now it must feel that way as it’s sitting on top of them and won’t just die and go away.

    Was CAT 5 185mph sustained and 220mph gusts until few hours ago. Sitting over the islands of land weakens some but a CAT 4 @ 150mph sustained and 180mph gusts aren’t much consolation.
    09-02-19 01:57 PM
  21. the_boon's Avatar
    Nokia brand doesn't need BlackBerry in anything.
    If Nokia wants to release a PKB phone, they can easily revive the E-Series, which had very great phones.


    BlackBerry brand is very toxic and dead and no company or group of people want to use it anymore at this point.
    The brand is unfortunately a synonym of failure , obsolescence, and outdated minds.

    Please, admit this FACT!
    Yes, it is a pure FACT now!
    I have recently come to admit it myself.

    However, what I won't accept, is that the PKB itself is as doomed for failure as the BlackBerry brand name.

    An E Series mid-range revival by Nokia at a $329 price point would attract less ridiculing and finger pointing than the KEY2 at $649
    09-02-19 10:38 PM
  22. Rootbrian's Avatar
    STUPID US POLITICS ASIDE (because they couldn't force a country to do anything, etc. They threw a tantrum instead), i'll get any physical keyboard device regardless of manufacturer. Chinese or not.

    It's not like they're going to have physical access to your device if the bootloader is unlocked and you use different firmware, and that's impossible (physical access requires them to steal your device off of you).

    Then again, since blackberry was NEVER a consumer facing company to begin with, that's why there was so much "disappointment" from consumers. What, you expected an enterprise-focused-primary company to please everyone outside of that scope? Nope, not gonna happen.

    They made the sensible decision to get out of the hardware business and i'm glad they did. Spoiled/unsatisfied people cannot ever be satisfied (and i'm not spoiled, and I don't call anyone else spoiled either).

    We can dream.
    We can also move on.

    Typed on my blackberry classic with 10.3.3-latest on freedom mobile HSPA+
    09-03-19 05:13 AM
  23. the_boon's Avatar
    I'll get any physical keyboard device regardless of manufacturer. Chinese or not.
    Count me in on that
    09-03-19 08:16 AM
  24. mrsimon's Avatar
    Count me in on that
    I've accepted it with the BlackBerry brand on it, but I wouldn't buy a Chinese phone with it's own brand on it. I'd prefer to give my business to EU or NA firms or even Japanese.
    IMHO, the Nokia brand with a PKB fits the bill for BlackBerry fans. If they like Unihertz with little mobile experience, a Nokia nails it.
    Right?
    CrackPriv and John Albert like this.
    09-03-19 08:28 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    I've accepted it with the BlackBerry brand on it, but I wouldn't buy a Chinese phone with it's own brand on it. I'd prefer to give my business to EU or NA firms or even Japanese.
    IMHO, the Nokia brand with a PKB fits the bill for BlackBerry fans. If they like Unihertz with little mobile experience, a Nokia nails it.
    Right?
    Who has "accepted" Unihertz? A few thousand kickstarter investors?
    09-03-19 08:29 AM
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