01-13-12 05:40 PM
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  1. Bballbenb's Avatar
    I think everyone needs to stay positive and realize that this still wont be RIMs year to the best of my knowledge. Yes I agree that BB OS 10 looks awesome, and the new Playbook features REALLY make me want to go get one, but I dont see RIM making a huge comeback..yet. Heres why:

    1) As far as phones go, RIM has said nothing new will come out untill BB OS 10, so its going to be tough to keep and convert people to Blackberry this year. I certainly think the Bold, Torch, and Curve are fine phones, but lets be honest in this day and age, Android and iPhone are the hot commodities. Now when a new BB OS 10 phone comes out with amazing new features, apps to match competitors, and the security of a Blackberry phone, THEN I think RIM will start making its comeback, but again thats almost a year away from what we have heard.

    2) As far as the Playbook goes, I love it and really want to get one. I am a avid reader on Crackberry so I have seen and heard about the new updates and the Playbook itself. But for the vast majority of this country, they only want what they see and hear from television and friends. I cant remember the last time i saw the Playbook advertised on TV and as far as friends go, most people right now have iPads. I think RIM really needs to advertise the heck out of the Playbook right now. So what if it came out a while ago, refocusing the advertisements to include all of these great features is the only way to get it out on the market. Unfortunately from what I can tell, the average person wants a tablet to be able to watch movies, play games/apps, and read books. the PB is lacking compared to the iPad in all these areas and it needs to be addressed and I think is. Having Cut the Rope and Plants vs Zombies is a great start. Again i think the Playbook is a great product but unless they get the word out there more about it, I see it just having average or below average sells especially with the iPad 3 coming soon.

    The last thing I want to say is I think RIM needs to somehow advertise and target the business world more than what they do. Lets face it, Apple and Google products are fun and have the most apps. Any RIM product can not compete in that area to save thereselves, but they can in business, security, etc. I love my blackberry for its sophistication, which I think lacks in the other brands. A Blackberry is meant for the business man/woman and they need to start getting back to that and advertising it that way to companies!!!

    Sorry for ranting and not flaming at all! I love my Tour and want a playbook and want to see the company grow I just dont want people flaming on here soon when no new things are announced. I truley believe this wont be the year of RIM, but 2013 can definately be.
    SK122387 and doxa sub750T like this.
    01-12-12 07:57 PM
  2. kirk89's Avatar
    Great. thanks for your sharing this with us
    01-12-12 08:04 PM
  3. adiafzal's Avatar
    Just when RIM is about to get some love...
    01-12-12 08:10 PM
  4. Bballbenb's Avatar
    Maybe I am wrong (and i hope so!) This is just what I have been seeing/reading. If anyone disagrees please let me know and maybe il change my mindset.
    Just my .02 cents is all!
    01-12-12 08:18 PM
  5. adiafzal's Avatar
    You know what, just forget it.
    As you have rightly said, it's your .02 cents after all.
    You are entitled to your own opinion.
    My mistake - for coming here to read your post.
    I apologize.
    Now if you'll excuse me. I will quietly leave.
    I hope the door will hit me on my face on the way out.
    01-12-12 08:32 PM
  6. JWWDUKE's Avatar
    To the op, you say in the first sentence that this won't be RIM's year. Well, most certainly it won't be their best year but it will be much better than 2011. Playbook os2, even more apps/games coming onboard, and then later in the year they'll be selling QNX phones!!!! Last year we had the playbook launch(mostly harsh criticism from just about everyone), and the launch of OS7 phones(again, not alot of positivity from "the critics", but was def a step in the right direction).
    So as you can see, you are clearly wrong and way off. haha. I don't believe RIM will ever be numero uno again, but I truly believe this will continue to be a 3 horse race.

    As for your "blackberries are meant for businessmen/women comment, I just can't wrap my head around that personally, because I've been rockin Blackberries since 2008(and I'm not a businessman). I'm just a regular techie kinda guy and I probably won't switch platforms unless RIM goes bellyup. Although I def agree that RIM's niche is in the business world, they started down the consumer path with the storm and now the playbook and the upcoming BBX phones. In my opinion they have to satisfy both needs to stay alive, that's what differentiates them from everyone else.
    kbz1960 and menaknow like this.
    01-12-12 08:53 PM
  7. tmelon's Avatar
    This point has sort of been beat to a pulp...

    True, 2012 will not be the year of the BlackBerry due to BB10 most likely being early 2013. When BB10 is ready they can start pumping up their marketing and really make it big.
    01-12-12 08:55 PM
  8. Bballbenb's Avatar
    I agree with you JWWDUKE that this year will be better than last year. In your mind, do you see RIM not releasing anything from now untiill BBX phones? I think they might have something up there sleeve that will suprise us all. Thats just too long of a timespan to not have anything unless they somehow release BBX earlier (which would be awesome). We will see!!
    01-12-12 09:11 PM
  9. JWWDUKE's Avatar
    I agree with you JWWDUKE that this year will be better than last year. In your mind, do you see RIM not releasing anything from now untiill BBX phones? I think they might have something up there sleeve that will suprise us all. Thats just too long of a timespan to not have anything unless they somehow release BBX earlier (which would be awesome). We will see!!
    nope, i see nothing new in between. We'll have OS2 in feb( the 17th is the rumour) and BBX, sorry BB10 phones, in Nov-Dec. And i wish they'd name it BBQ(because I love BBQ's,haha. I don't see what they might release in between.
    01-12-12 09:22 PM
  10. kraski's Avatar
    I agree with you JWWDUKE that this year will be better than last year. In your mind, do you see RIM not releasing anything from now untiill BBX phones? I think they might have something up there sleeve that will suprise us all. Thats just too long of a timespan to not have anything unless they somehow release BBX earlier (which would be awesome). We will see!!
    Here's a thought. Your #1 is that nothing's getting released till late 2012. When in fact nothing's been announced. Big difference. The two may be the same, but maybe not. If you were Tim Tebow, would you give Tom Brady your game strategy before Saturday night's game? Neither do competing companies.

    As for advertising, yes there should be some aimed toward businesses. But the main area RIM has lost market share in the US is with consumers. And the consumers are buying iPhones and Android gadgets that they're pushing to use as both personal and work phones. By being vocal, they're pushing companies into allowing other phones to access the company network. So, RIM needs more consumer advertising. Much more.

    RIM did a great job with New Years Eve advertising. Then? Nothing. When I think about it, much of the market RIM needed to reach were likely out at a party or fireworks or whatever, not seeing RIM's ads. When people are home after that, nothing. The playoff games and the Super Bowl get huge audiences from every market segment that RIM might want. I haven't seen a single ad for a Blackberry on any of the games. Just sayin'
    01-13-12 01:21 AM
  11. dynot's Avatar
    Nice to see a good, thought-provoking thread like this one...getting tired of those other dumb "haters gonna hate" and other threads asking for a pyscological explanation for haters that serve no purpose.

    As for the OP's comments, I agree that without any new devices coming out till the end of the year (and I'm assuming RIM will be on-time) they will lose a lot of ground. However, they can mitigate that by staying in the public eye using such strategies as leaking images of new BB10 devices or screen-caps of the OS running on a device. They could also go viral with leaked videos of devices in development even if they're not the final version. Just do something to stay on the front pages and keep the public interested and intrigued by these new devices until they're ready to release one. But to do nothing except release software updates or white versions of current devices will just make them slip further into irrelevance. Like it or not, the die-hard BB community in these forums and out there in the public is just too small to sustain RIM if they remain stagnant.

    One thing I do disagree with the OP is that it is not just for business-people. I use a BB because my employer requires it but I would like to have those "consumer" features. I'm not really a game-player but being able to pass some time at an airport with a brain-teaser would be nice to do. If RIM stays only business-oriented then they'll lose more market share as other consumer-oriented platforms try to penetrate the business market.
    Last edited by dynot; 01-13-12 at 07:25 AM.
    01-13-12 07:23 AM
  12. augidog's Avatar
    i'm only a casual user of a lot of data (tethered now, but stand-alone while on the road) and will likely never use most of what my Torch has to offer. still, what it DOES offer me is astounding...the solidity of the device, in appearance, performance, and future capabilities...and that equates to confidence in my purchase. as a bb newby and pc hardware fanatic, i find something new almost daily that makes me chuckle.

    after getting my 9810, i began to notice that AT&T is really pimping this one to the business customer, yet highlighting the multi-tasking and multimedia strengths that civilians love...so that's my on-topic feedback for the OP...BB may not be being aggressive enough, in your opinion, but i guess they kinda are, through carrier-specific promotion.
    Last edited by augidog; 01-13-12 at 08:00 AM.
    01-13-12 07:36 AM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    As for the advertising of the playbook there has been no reason to until the 2.0 update is here. What would they advertise? In Feb you'll love this if you can wait?
    01-13-12 07:50 AM
  14. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I think there are some excellent points here from the OP rooted in reality rather than emotion. I don't think anyone expects the current crop of hardware to propel RIM back to the top. The realistic expectation of the BB7 phones is simply to stop the bleeding and slow down market share loss until the BB10 phones come out, and even then, BB10 should only make RIM competitive again rather than a has-been. I also don't think anyone expects the PlayBook to ever displace iPad as the number one tablet; but I do expect that OS2.0 should put it in a more positive light and make it a more relevant competitor. These are reasonable expectations that RIM can achieve, and they seem to be taking the right steps toward achieving them. That's why there's a bit more feeling-good-ed-ness around here this week (but just a bit).
    01-13-12 10:58 AM
  15. tack's Avatar
    I like the concept of a BB10, but I cannot say it looks great because I have not seen it. Has anyone?

    I don't know if this will be a great year for RIM or not. I don't know what they have planned beyond PB OS 2.0 and a BB10 device. As far as what BB10 and the device will actually be, does anyone actually know beyond speculation? While I don't want to see them over promise, I would say the my problem with having a positive view on RIM's outlook is most don't know what or when they plan. I am in a wait and see mode. I think people predict the next outcome based on the last few, and that is not a good thing for RIM for most of the market (not the die hard fans).

    Already marketing hard enough? I don't think so. They have so many great features and leading aspects to talk about and I think their ads suck at mentioning them. audidog pointed out AT&T's 9810 marketing. It is almost non-existent beyond those targeting the phone. Go to their website and tell me if you see anything RIM or BB on the first page, anywhere. It is Android + 4G and iPhone all the way in terms of first shown ads. Maybe AT&T's 9810 marketing message is great once you click on the phone, but people have to want the phone first. That is not in RIM's favor thanks to the media right now. BB7 may be great, but they need to make sure people know it is. Most people don't even know it exists. They need to go on the marketing offensive.

    I am not one for negative ads, but in the USA I think RIM needs to point out their advantages clearly to attract people.
    01-13-12 12:07 PM
  16. Economist101's Avatar
    Here's a thought. Your #1 is that nothing's getting released till late 2012. When in fact nothing's been announced. Big difference. The two may be the same, but maybe not. If you were Tim Tebow, would you give Tom Brady your game strategy before Saturday night's game? Neither do competing companies.
    This would be more compelling if RIM hadn't announced the PlayBook 7 months before its release. Either you're going to be open with product strategy (think Microsoft) or closed (Apple), but in either case consistency is critical.
    01-13-12 12:38 PM
  17. kraski's Avatar
    As for the advertising of the playbook there has been no reason to until the 2.0 update is here. What would they advertise? In Feb you'll love this if you can wait?
    But they could use some teasers beforehand. Show some of the new features. Generate some prerelease interest. And keep the Playbook in the public eye. Otherwise, you'll have a lot of folks who know the features of the iPad, the Android tablets and no clue what a Playbook is (exaggerating), much less why 2.0 is important.
    01-13-12 12:39 PM
  18. Rickroller's Avatar
    These are reasonable expectations that RIM can achieve, and they seem to be taking the right steps toward achieving them.
    Well said. While they seem to be taking the right steps, let's just hope that there isn't something in the delivery that might derail the positive steps. When 2.0 finally gets released, as long as there isn't any major bugs or issues, it will probably lessen the amount of criticism currently directed at the PB.

    However, there is going to be a long lull in between February and when BB10 phones finally hit the market, with nothing much in between, whereas from competitors we're going to be seeing the i5, not to mention a slew of Android devices (SGSIII) hitting the streets, and stealing thunder. As long as there are no further delays within RIM, 2012 should be a relatively "calm" year, with less turmoil. If problems continue to pop up, then it could be another rough one.
    01-13-12 12:46 PM
  19. kraski's Avatar
    I like the concept of a BB10, but I cannot say it looks great because I have not seen it. Has anyone?
    Very good point. We have some hints from RIM, and because it's QNX based, some assumptions based on the Playbook.

    I am not one for negative ads, but in the USA I think RIM needs to point out their advantages clearly to attract people.
    Absolutely. And at times when people will see them. Reliance on carrier advertising is not going to get the message out. With the "gotta have the latest and greatest" mentality, carriers are out to sell phones and gain contracts, buyers are going to have a short attention span -- about as long as it takes for another model to show up. Neither is going to be focused on one company or device. RIM needs to show buyers that Blackberries are relevant.
    01-13-12 12:51 PM
  20. Bballbenb's Avatar
    I think everyone is bringing up great points and we can all agree, RIM has a great device RIGHT NOW in BB7 and the Playbook 2.0, but they need to get back to letting the public know about it. From now untill BB10 is released gearing up the advertising on TV and releasing hints, videos, etc about BB10 would be cool too. Involving Twitter and Facebook like this many followers and we will release some info, Google did that with a 3rd party source on the Galaxy Nexus and it made the news.
    01-13-12 12:56 PM
  21. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Well said. While they seem to be taking the right steps, let's just hope that there isn't something in the delivery that might derail the positive steps. When 2.0 finally gets released, as long as there isn't any major bugs or issues, it will probably lessen the amount of criticism currently directed at the PB.
    That alone would be a win of sorts!

    However, there is going to be a long lull in between February and when BB10 phones finally hit the market, with nothing much in between, whereas from competitors we're going to be seeing the i5, not to mention a slew of Android devices (SGSIII) hitting the streets, and stealing thunder. As long as there are no further delays within RIM, 2012 should be a relatively "calm" year, with less turmoil. If problems continue to pop up, then it could be another rough one.
    Exactly, which comes back to the insistence of perfect execution from here on out. I think we all know that the competition won't be sitting still waiting for BB10 to release; hopefully RIM has a battle plan for a market as it will be 10 months from now as opposed to what it is today. Only time will tell.
    Rickroller likes this.
    01-13-12 01:00 PM
  22. kraski's Avatar
    This would be more compelling if RIM hadn't announced the PlayBook 7 months before its release. Either you're going to be open with product strategy (think Microsoft) or closed (Apple), but in either case consistency is critical.
    Consistency has its benefits and its downsides. The op was discussing the phone side of RIM more than the tablet side. But are you suggesting that RIM ought to announce everything way ahead of time for the sake of consistency? I doubt it.

    Think about what RIM has already publicly done.

    They did decent advertising for a tablet that was lackluster because it didn't meet the expectations generated by 7 months of PR. Now they have an upcoming OS update that most non-owners have no clue will make the Playbook a great tablet. RIM needs to leak highlights, both in PR and advertising. Before people just skip over the Playbook because of negativity toward OS 1.0 and the lack of email, etc. originally.

    My first BB was the 9800. RIM did a decent job of generating some excitement for it. And the fact that it was a new direction from the old OS4/5 stuff. Then they stuck it with an original OS version that was worse than beta, with few apps converted to it.

    RIM redeemed themselves with the 9810. Really nice phone. But RIM let the carriers take the baggage of advertising it. Which left the 9810 looking very like the 9800, but no marketing to explain why Joe Average Consumer should expect anything different from the 9800 experience. That the 9810, despite fewer apps at launch, was a far more usable device.

    Then there's the present "flagship" phone, the 9900. Lots of advertising, but lots of problems. And the saga continues.

    One of the other threads talks about debranding. But RIM is actually doing a great job of branding. They're building an image of RIM and Blackberry. Unfortunately, it's a negative image, based on lack of quality and apps for the things they do market. It takes a multi-step assault to fix it.

    1) Fix the software and hardware issues.
    2) Start marketing what's already here and working. Show Joe Average Consumer that they produce great devices that are fun to use, usable to meet a variety of needs, relevant to today's phone user.
    3) Highlight the benefits of the new tablet OS. We're close enough to February to need to generate some expectations other than disappointment. Show how the new OS takes the Playbook to a new level.
    4) Start marketing all the good things that make Blackberry different and better. BBM, security, great physical keyboards, a good experience combining touchscreen and keyboard (look at the Android dud attempts), etc. Give the public the sense that there's Blackberry, then there's everything else on a lower level. Apple has been stellar at doing just that for the iPhone.
    5) Come several months before releasing BB10 devices, start leaking why they'll take phone use to a new level. And build on that as the release date approaches. But they'd better keep the promises they make or they'll put themselves right back into the negative branding they've been so good at.
    01-13-12 01:48 PM
  23. Economist101's Avatar
    Consistency has its benefits and its downsides. The op was discussing the phone side of RIM more than the tablet side. But are you suggesting that RIM ought to announce everything way ahead of time for the sake of consistency? I doubt it.
    The only thing I'm suggesting is that they be consistent. I think it was a mistake to announce the PlayBook so far ahead of its release, but that's merely my opinion.
    kraski likes this.
    01-13-12 02:05 PM
  24. sleepngbear's Avatar
    The only thing I'm suggesting is that they be consistent. I think it was a mistake to announce the PlayBook so far ahead of its release, but that's merely my opinion.
    Not saying it was right or wrong, but a couple of advantages to announcing early are:
    - Somebody contemplating a tablet purchase and is still early in their decision-making process mayopt to wait for an alternative rather than jump on the only option available at the time (in this case, iPad).
    - Somebody (like me) who may be interested in a tablet but not necessarily an iPad would be very interested to know about up-coming alternatives.

    The disadvantages are, well, by now we pretty well know what they are.
    01-13-12 02:46 PM
  25. kraski's Avatar
    The only thing I'm suggesting is that they be consistent. I think it was a mistake to announce the PlayBook so far ahead of its release, but that's merely my opinion.
    Nope. Not just your opinion. I'm with you on that. It was far too soon to announce it when they did. As a result, they built up anticipation, then didn't deliver. Not good.
    01-13-12 03:46 PM
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