02-29-12 01:21 AM
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  1. Jeovex's Avatar
    So I love BB and I don't see myself switching but my faith in BlackBerry seems to be fading...

    *** Please note, the following is not me losing faith in MY BlackBerry but rather me losing faith in BlackBerry's future, their popular portrayal and their hurdles. I still love my BB ***


    Please do not get offended and be respectful and read the whole post before you reply.


    I am not talking about the PlayBook, it is a solid platform and simply needs more apps and different models under a unified OS.
    I'm talking about BlackBerry Smartphones.

    Let me give you a back story:

    Last summer before school I was looking to replace my laptop for class as I was just wasting time on it in class.
    So I turned to Tablets. After many weeks of researching I decided that the PlayBook would be the best for me.
    Its size and all the perks like HDMI, flash support (and just an AMAZING browser), coming Android Player, great HD cameras, great speakers and intuitive UI and OS made it all the more convincing.

    These things, combines with the fact that I needed to renew my contract or change platforms for my phone made me choose the
    PlayBook.

    It is the PlayBook that solidified my choice for a BlackBerry Smartphone and not the other way around as I think a BB handset would not get me to buy a PB ( BBOS < QNX get what I mean?)
    And this is with a Torch 9810 running BB7 the most stable and advanced of the BB handset versions.

    Hardware
    I still love my PB and always will.
    At first I was in love with my BB, but now my faith in them is being shaken and tested.
    This happens as I get constantly bugged about having a BB while countless people I know are switching to Iphone or Android (only 1 of my friends has windows phone lol). That was a minor reason, the true reason is when I go to future shop after work waiting for my ride, I try out all the gadgets there like the Samsung Note, the iPad, and the plethora of android tablets, (never the iPhone, to me it is simply overhyped device and If I was l going full touch I would choose Android (for now, even though it is vastly fragmented and the phones life cycles are super short and updates are not a certainty depending on which device you get.)

    Its not so much that BlackBerries have bad hardware or that they make small improvements, its that others (mostly Android) have SUPERB hardware and make larger and faster improvements
    ( I know they have many manufactures and a "free" OS but it just dwarfs BB so badly when you go to the store and see 5 models for BB and 40 for android....
    Now not to be rude or arrogant but the BB hardware might be ok and acceptable in developing nations but in North America, people tend to go all out with Gadgets and want the very top notch stuff.
    Not having a forward facing camera is also rediculous.

    Physical keyboard
    Also as I use a tablet (and the 9810) more and more find a physical keyboard more and more obsolete, well not completely but for the most part yes, the only reason I use a keyboard on my BB is for HEAVY texting and BlackBerry Bridge Remote.
    I also find that the keyboard is loosing more and more ground in the crowds, more and more people are choosing full touch screen and it is keeping developers behind: smaller screens and only a few touch devices gives them less incentive to develop for BB.
    Essentially, the (current)BBs' keyboards are a GREAT remote for your PB but people generaly want more options on their phone than a remote so they would ditch the keyboard.
    However I am sure that there will be keyboard Models for BlackBerry10.

    BBM
    I have first hand observed the dieing of BBM, this goes hand in hand with the loss of the love for physical keyboard.
    For a long time, BBM was the choice of the masses for the keyboard for texting but they stood out for BBM rather than a simple text phone because it was instant messaging and file sharing (sending pics and such)made for an affordable phone bill. Now prices are down for texting phone plans and BBM is loosing its selling point in North America, that and BBM not being multi platform just makes texting simpler.
    It also has to do with girls... I know this is going to sound completely unfounded but hear me out.
    Now I find the iphone to be a mostly female phone and many are making the switch. This then makes guys who are looking to date to switch to iPhone for iMessage ( I've witnessed this) or they are dating and the next upgrade the boyfriend gets iPhone to be able to talk together like on BBM but on iMessage.
    In developing markets thought (at least for now until texting plans are cheaper) BBM is a great selling point and is BB's best feature.

    You can tell BlackBerry is doing well on developing nations but it is in North America that I am worried for them. If a huge fan like me can have doubts, how is the rest of the continent feeling, especially considering all the people who are conformist who just follow the the crowds to get the iPhone and androids.

    Other problems
    Many cool features of the BlackBerry platform are no longer a selling point because they now are integrated in other devices, as well, other platforms have features which deter people away from BB.
    Some concerns are:
    -Ubuntu for Android
    -The use of a stylus would be perfect for the PlayBook but it needs to be integrated while the Samsung Note series has taken full advantage of this.
    -The whole synching of the iOS devices with Macs is a great selling point.
    -The tablet wars are clearly being dominated by larger 9 and 10 inch tablets and RIM needs to hurry the heck up to get their larger tablet out. While the 7inch form factor is great for many things, the options should be there.
    -Windows is entering the game at a much faster pace than we would like to admit and it is also entering the corporate market which is RIM's stronghold.
    -Retail stores are also vastly downplaying the PlayBook and sometimes the BB phones.
    -There is a lack of consumer content which is being corrected but it needs to be well executed.

    Final concerns
    So I know many of the concerns will be addressed by the BlackBerry10 operating system and the new hardware but I'm just wondering will it be enough?

    With BB loosing its keyboard in favour of touch screens(though there will still be) what will be its selling point when everyone else is at touch screen and some android phones already have keyboards?

    Another point that makes me angry is that alot of those who defected to other platforms have had bad experiences with the earlier OSs and the lower end Curves.... so they now have a stain in their memory about their BB experience.

    Any ways, these were the concerns of a BlackBerry fan who just wants to see it do well.

    I'm wondering what others think, please reply respectfully and again, NO FLAMING.
    Last edited by Jeovex; 02-28-12 at 07:53 PM.
    02-28-12 02:12 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I do not even know where to begin addressing this thread.

    However, I'll start here.

    It also has to do with girls... I know this is going to sound completely unfounded but hear me out.
    Now I find the iphone to be a mostly female phone and many are making the switch. This then makes guys who are looking to date to switch to iPhone for iMessage ( I've witnessed this) or they are dating and the next upgrade the boyfriend gets iPhone to be able to talk together like on BBM but on iMessage.
    Sorry, but I know more men than women who have iPhones.

    Some concerns are:
    -Ubuntu for Android
    Sorry, but although I am a Linux user, I am well aware of the fact that most consumers do not use Linux and many probably never even heard of it.

    Even most Android users probably have little interest in Ubuntu.
    02-28-12 02:22 PM
  3. Jeovex's Avatar
    I do not even know where to begin addressing this thread.

    However, I'll start here.

    Sorry, but I know more men than women who have iPhones.

    Sorry, but although I am a Linux user, I am well aware of the fact that most consumers do not use Linux and many probably never even heard of it.

    Even most Android users probably have little interest in Ubuntu.

    I'm speaking of what I've observed and the ubuntu thing is just cool ,ow saying its going to make a dramatic shift.
    02-28-12 02:29 PM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'm speaking of what I've observed and the ubuntu thing is just cool ,ow saying its going to make a dramatic shift.
    Linux has been around for over 20 years now. It has not gotten more than 2% of the desktop market share. Yes, it is very popular as a server OS, as well as on embedded devices.

    I love Linux, but I have my doubts with regard to how popular it will become on tablets and smartphones.
    02-28-12 02:33 PM
  5. Silverfern's Avatar
    i have thought about the hardware problem before, but it has been brought to my attention that, for the stuff we use, we really dont need powerful hardware like those they have in new android coming out everymonth. do we really need a crazy quad-core CPU for what we do? i hope not, i'll say a dual core be nice, and thats what we will get for BB London. those people who need super duper hardware are either show offs or have no life and glue their face to their phone 10 hours a day playing games.
    02-28-12 03:16 PM
  6. BoldPreza's Avatar
    I think it will be. Honestly, people are waiting for those BB10 phones now, because of how RIM handled the BB7 launch. If they hadn't botched it by saying yea we have these now but wait till you see what we have in 10 months(now over a year), the BB7 phones would have seen greater acceptance.

    Oh and for the love of god, they need to market more than the Bold. 9860 deserves some love too!
    02-28-12 03:29 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Come on... geez, people! OP raises a lot of significant points; I don't agree with all of them, but there are some fair observations:

    -Yes, RIM probably SHOULD have the choice of a 10" tab. I've known some (like, my mother, for instance) who ruled it out strictly on size.

    -Yes, handset hardware is a little behind the curve (pun not intended), and while I don't subscribe to the "RIM is soooo far behind" bandwagon I do agree that the lack of a front-facing camera is a glaring omission, especially in the Torch/Bold units

    I'll read what respectful critics have to say all day long...
    02-28-12 03:34 PM
  8. louzer's Avatar
    I have been using my Bold 9650 for over 2 years now. It definitely lags at times, but still does what I initially intended. At the same time, I could have gotten an HTC Hero or an iPhone 3. Part of the problem RIM has with selling BB7 phones is how long people seem to keep and enjoy their BlackBerry devices.
    02-28-12 03:54 PM
  9. Spencerdl's Avatar
    Valid points and I respect the OP's opinion, but a lot of people just don't need that type of hardware in a phone. Just because a phone can't walk the dog does not make it obsolete. I have a life, even though the PlayBook Is trying to take that away, "behind the curve".....who's curve. Smartphones were design to assist you in life...not be what life's all about.
    soogriff and PondHockey like this.
    02-28-12 04:05 PM
  10. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Thread cleaned. Let's be respecttful people.

    OP, while I can appreciate the concerns, I think you're off on some facts.

    1. The phone you have exceeds the specs of any droid with a keypad.
    2. You just started using a BlackBerry, so how you can speak from experience about BBM is beyond me. I see threads all the time about people having their contact list dwindle to nothing. From my perspective it's way overblown.
    3. Developing nations such as Canada and the UK? Yes, they're losing ground in US, but their numbers are still growing.
    4. iphones are for women? I think Laura handled that one well. LoL
    5. True that many folks had bad experiences with older BlackBerries. No doubt a good deal of them through their place of employment, with no support.

    Keep your faith. The OS7 phones are great, and BB10 should turn peoples heads.

    Are you running 7.1.0.258 on that 9810?


    Edit - About the keypad. You happen to have the worst RIM offers, in my opinion, and phones with keys are not going away. Look at Android. They keep coming out with new ones.
    BearSnout and grover5 like this.
    02-28-12 04:07 PM
  11. _MissV_'s Avatar
    To each, their own. I would love for my BB to have a front facing camera as well, but I love love love having a keyboard and won't trade it for anything.
    02-28-12 05:55 PM
  12. playbookster's Avatar
    BlackBerry is in transition right now.. You can either hang on to your BB and upgrade to BB10 or you can switch to something else, no need to write us a story about it.
    Chrisy likes this.
    02-28-12 05:58 PM
  13. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    BlackBerry is in transition right now.. You can either hang on to your BB and upgrade to BB10 or you can switch to something else, no need to write us a story about it.
    He chose to engage in a conversation about it. Nothing wrong with that.
    02-28-12 06:02 PM
  14. blue_k's Avatar
    I love Linux, but I have my doubts with regard to how popular it will become on tablets and smartphones.
    Very, Android IS Linux.
    02-28-12 06:02 PM
  15. Chrisy's Avatar
    I like BlackBerry. I'm going to keep using it.

    The End.

    02-28-12 06:12 PM
  16. Jeovex's Avatar
    I like BlackBerry. I'm going to keep using it.

    The End.

    As will I, but I'm just trying to see if some are in the same situation as I.
    02-28-12 06:15 PM
  17. Chrisy's Avatar
    I was when I had a Tour.

    I switched to the Android Thunderbolt.

    I'm back with BlackBerry.

    The End.
    belfastdispatcher likes this.
    02-28-12 06:19 PM
  18. dbmalloy's Avatar
    This is all very odd to me.... If you only had a phone I could understand part of the logic... But the member does not he also has a Playbook... What is weird to me is how a lot of people seem to think one device should do everything... No phone does .....not even the Iphone.... or the beloved Android...does it all..... Just check out some of the user forums for that ecosystem... May find a lot of similarities to this one.....

    For me why I keep with RIM is when the Playbook came out what they did with the smartphone bridging to the Playbook was genius in my opinion... Keeeping with the fact no one device can do everyting the merging to the Smartphone and Tablet offset many of the feature either lacking or out of date on both made it a stronger platform....

    What RIM failed to do was maket the products properly.... In April I had a state of the art tablet with free 3G BBM Native email.... SMS Text ( sms textbridge ) Calendar all courtesy of my phone... Cool apps courtesy of the PLaybook ... a bit sparse yes... but how many apps can you put on a 16 gig tablet.....Who cares if it was not native to the Playbook... It worked as if it was native to the Playbook..... One night the power went off we had no wifi and the line to the utility was constantly busy..... ISo fired up the playbook used my 3G connection to contact the ultlity and found out the problem and time they expected power to come on... Whether it was one device or two connected did not matter ..... it acted as one...

    I have not even set up my Native email on the Playbook since the update...... I do not want the constraints of WIFI... I continue to use the Bridge and appreciate the features it gave my Playbook... If I handed the tablet to someone listed what it could do.....I defy them to even think it was not native.....

    Has RIM dug a big hole... You bet yah... problem in Technology is is does not take long to dig said hole but it sure as can take a ling time to get out.....

    Even if RIM does not become the player the once were they can still provide a great product and service... If you go prior to 2007 and have a look where Apple was at and read the press they had you might just feel some dejavu......
    02-28-12 06:42 PM
  19. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Very, Android IS Linux.
    Not really. Android is based on Linux, but it is actually a fork, not the pure Linux kernel.

    As related by Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols on ZDNet, Torvalds joined a panel with Kroah-Hartman, who famously excised Android code from the Linux kernel in early 2010, due to Google's lack of upstream maintenance support. Tensions rose that year, despite attempts at reconciliation, but now, judging from ZDNet, both Torvalds and Kroah-Hartman have become pretty mellow fellows about the rift.

    "There's still a lot of merger to be done," Torvalds told the panel audience, according to ZDNet. However, "Eventually Android and Linux would come back to a common kernel, but it will probably not be for four to five years," added the Linux creator.
    http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3...91.html?kc=rss

    http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/andro...-problems.html
    Last edited by lak611; 02-28-12 at 07:02 PM.
    02-28-12 06:44 PM
  20. xandermac's Avatar
    From my own personal experience I did see my BBM list dwindle. From about 10 personal contacts to 1. Everyone went to android/iPhone. I moved to the iPhone for service/support reasons, my girlfriend followed suit and dropped her blackberry so we could use iMessage (not to mention her friends that already had iPhones). So there is at least 1 example of what the OP speaks of.

    FYI, most of my friends are women and the majority use the iPhone, all white without fail.

    I'm sure in time the novelty will wear off and hopefully RIM will have some competitive devices on the market backed with a decent ecosystem and tolerable support. Time will tell.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    02-28-12 06:45 PM
  21. soogriff's Avatar
    Um, as far as people switching to iphone so they can imessage each other, wow. Totally don't see that imessage would be that important to change platforms for your boyfriend/girlfriend. Now I do know couples that eventually get on the same carrier to put everything on one bill. But my husband has an iphone and i have a bb. He's on ATT, I'm on Verizon. We both have unlimited text messaging. not gonna switch to iphone to imessage. nope.

    As far as other people giving me crap for owning a BB, well, all that doesn't affect my love for BB. It's my phone. Whether or not they like it is irrelevant. Peer pressure has never really worked on me. Call me hard headed.


    I LOVE the BB keyboards. I bought a Playbook a few days ago and I HATE the touchscreen keyboard. I can't type worth a flip on it. If anything, it solidifies the fact that I need a physical keyboard. For people that text or email a lot, they're going to continue to buy phones with full qwerty keyboards.

    Since I just got a PB, I think I'll be happy staying with BB for years to come. As far as making the PB a larger tablet and the PB being beat out by 10" tablets. Well, I have the first gen ipad. That thing is a beast. huge. It's left the house once, when I went on a trip to saint louis. It's just a pain to tot around. You need a purse or if you're a guy, some kind of "man bag" if you don't want to just hold it in your hand all day. The 7" PB is nice. I can play on it while lying in bed and it doesn't feel like i'm working out.
    Chrisy and Spencerdl like this.
    02-28-12 06:47 PM
  22. ubizmo's Avatar
    It seems to me that a lot of your concerns about having a BB are based on other people's perceptions and expectations. We're all like that at times, but it's easy to get caught up in the fear of looking foolish. Sure, there are plenty of people who want every new feature that they hear about, but at some point you have to step back and take a deep breath. Do you want a front-facing camera because you expect to make significant use of it? Or is it because you're afraid that someone will point out that it doesn't have one?

    What's more important, whether the physical keyboard is losing popularity or whether you actually like to have one?

    I'm not arguing that BBs don't have shortcomings. We all have our own Top 10 list of things we'd like to see changed or fixed. But at some point we have to separate what we really want and use in a phone from what we are expected to want and use. If we don't do that, we end up constantly jumping from one device to another, always dissatisfied, always envious of the newest thing out.
    02-28-12 07:01 PM
  23. Jeovex's Avatar
    From my own personal experience I did see my BBM list dwindle. From about 10 personal contacts to 1. Everyone went to android/iPhone. I moved to the iPhone for service/support reasons, my girlfriend followed suit and dropped her blackberry so we could use iMessage (not to mention her friends that already had iPhones). So there is at least 1 example of what the OP speaks of.

    FYI, most of my friends are women and the majority use the iPhone, all white without fail.
    thank you, this is happening so someone else too


    [HL]As far as other people giving me crap for owning a BB, well, all that doesn't affect my love for BB. It's my phone.
    Gets annoying thats all
    02-28-12 07:44 PM
  24. Jeovex's Avatar
    It seems to me that a lot of your concerns about having a BB are based on other people's perceptions and expectations. We're all like that at times, but it's easy to get caught up in the fear of looking foolish. Sure, there are plenty of people who want every new feature that they hear about, but at some point you have to step back and take a deep breath. Do you want a front-facing camera because you expect to make significant use of it? Or is it because you're afraid that someone will point out that it doesn't have one?

    What's more important, whether the physical keyboard is losing popularity or whether you actually like to have one?

    I'm not arguing that BBs don't have shortcomings. We all have our own Top 10 list of things we'd like to see changed or fixed. But at some point we have to separate what we really want and use in a phone from what we are expected to want and use. If we don't do that, we end up constantly jumping from one device to another, always dissatisfied, always envious of the newest thing out.
    My perception of BB will never be changed my others' perception, that's not the kind of person I am, if that were the case, I never would have gotten the PlayBook in the first place and the BB after that.

    I'm just disapointed that with all the advancements going , BB is lagging behind, not that I care what the people I know think of my choice of smartphones. My group of friends all have a different platform and we are cool about that. We each have our own needs met by our different platforms.

    But I do agree with you that we need to step back and know what we want for us rather than what we want for others.

    Sorry just realised I double posted...
    02-28-12 08:11 PM
  25. karaya1's Avatar
    I have been using my Bold 9650 for over 2 years now. It definitely lags at times, but still does what I initially intended. At the same time, I could have gotten an HTC Hero or an iPhone 3. Part of the problem RIM has with selling BB7 phones is how long people seem to keep and enjoy their BlackBerry devices.
    Amen. My friends with iphones/droids are getting new ones and switching around like musical chairs. One friend JUST upgraded to a 9700 from his 8320 after our other friend got the 9900 and had the 9700 lying around.
    My father was using a 8830 until last year when i gave him my old 8900, that he still uses and loves.

    I have an old unlocked 8320 sitting around just for when friends/family come to visit me in Europe that i picked up for $40 on craigslist as a backup phone. It works flawlessly.

    I still use a 9700, it literally works perfectly. I use a shrunken OS 6, and have loads of apps on it. It is responsive and runs well. I reboot once or twice a week to keep it snappy. My only complaint is the browser and the "too large to load" notification.
    I want an OS 7 device, trust me. But i can't justify $400 for a used 9900 or new 9790 yet when my 2009 phone works so well.
    I stream video podcasts from the US daily, listen to bbm music for hours, use it as my alarm clock, my small stereo since the speaker is pretty good (please, bbm music for playbook), Gmaps, whatsapp, bb travel, IDOS train tables, LOTS of email and attachments, be weather, flashlight, FB, twitter, shazam, docs2go, bb bridge(remote works perfect on 9700), bb news, XE currency, bb travel, news, track stocks, endomondo, password storage, camera, blah blah blah. It does all of that without ever having an issue with incredible battery life in a perfect form factor that survives drops like it's a tank. So why would i pay $400 to upgrade right now? If i had a 9780 i'd be even less compelled.

    I will get an OS 7 device at some point, i really want one, but can't justify it yet. Right now a 9790 on the right bands for $$250-300 would probably do it, or a 9900 for the same.


    BB's last.
    soogriff likes this.
    02-28-12 08:27 PM
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