04-06-12 09:36 PM
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  1. guerllamo7's Avatar
    First of all, I have no shares of RIM and I don't have anything to do with the company. I'm just a BlackBerry user that loves the Bold 9930 and Playbook and I'm just tired of being told lies about my devices. BTW, regardless of what follows below, I'm not advocating purchasing shares of RIM (I really don't think this is the right place to make those decisions) but I am advocating continuing to enjoy their devices.

    RIM share were up after Mr. T. spoke on the conference call so needless to say CNBC got some turkey yesterday to say RIM is going bankrupt. Today the stock was up a bit and Jim dropped to the ground and said he could not find a place to draw how low RIM was going. When the Playbook was struggling last year they got some guy with assets under management of 12 million (total, yeah, he was such a titan and expert source!) as a reliable source to say that RIM was going to get out of the tablet market.

    First of all, these type of comments are having the desired impact. I have a friend that left BlackBerry and said he loved my Bold but was afraid the company would go out of business so it matters.

    How right is Jim Cramer?
    This is the former Goldman Sachs guy that said to buy Palm when Goldman was issuing new shares of Palm at 14-16 bucks. Even after they only sold 80k phones on the first week he got behind them.

    The argument goes that RIM is Nokia (at leat they have given up on the Palm comparison since it is too riduculous, even for CNBC). There are several reasons why this does not apply AT ALL.

    RIM is still growing worldwide, the fact that they are still holding on in the U.S. despite the relentless media attacks is a testament to how great they are. CNBC is hurting them but not enough to stop them.

    RIM collects about five bucks on service revenue per device, not from the consumer but from the carriers. Why, because they provide services the carriers need and the carriers are bursting at the seems for signal badwith. They are leasing tower from other companies because they can't get enough bandwith so the argument that they will discontinue paying RIM is about as right as Jim's call on Palm.

    RIM is NOT giving up on the Playbook. They are 100% committed to it because it is the prep/launch pad for their next generation phones. Besides, BB10 is not just a device but a platform and the way the Playbook and the BlackBerry phones work together is enviable. Who else has Bridge and remote? So, another lie.

    They say RIM is going to lose carrier support and that is another lie. Why? because the carriers have seen how much Apple has come to dominate and dictate to them what they must sell their devices for, what to put in them, etc. Just look at Sprint. The stock got cut in half because the made a stupid deal with Apple that actually is hurting them. Carriers will want more than two platforms and carrier CEO's have stated they want RIM because of loyal fans that will always want BlackBerries (such as myself) but also because they don't want to be enslaved to one or two ecosystems or devices.

    So as Jim likes to say, here is the bottom line:
    F U Jim Crammer! This time next year, RIM shares will be about twice as much as they are today and that would still leave them cheap. RIM is closer to Apple in 2003 that it is to Palm or Nokia. Everyone said Apple was dead and Steve Jobs came back, a new CEO/returning CEO, and look at it now. Mr. T. should do something similar in his own way.

    Some Reasons why RIM Rocks:
    1. Best security. That is why Mi6 and other agencies will always use them.
    2. Best keyboards in the universe. Droid is improving but not there yet. Apple doesnt have any.
    3. People say RIM is not innovating. Maybe, if you define innovation as media but look at all they have rolled out in the last 12 months then take a look at the 4S and iPad3. Who is really innovating faster? BB Traffice with organic voice navigation, BB Music (awesome), BB Bridge, BB Travel, BB Protect. Also in enterprise BlackBerry Mobile Fusion, BlackBerry balance, etc. I'm with RIM.
    4. BES/BESX. Although bring your own device is taking hold in corporate america CIO's are still picking RIM first. RIM may not dominate but will always be strong in enterprise.
    5. RIM has an out for older devices, what they don't sell in the U.S. can be sent and sold to countries that can't get enough of them.

    Here is the good news:
    All this smear campaign will end by the end of this year. The media dirtbags like CNBC will not be able to kill RIM before the BB10 devices become available and it is clear to me, judging by the Playbook UI and complete awesomess as well as Mr. T's comments that he gets it about content and desirability, not just functionality and practicality that they will rock. At this point RIM will be very well positioned on innovation.
    Also, it is easy for the top dog to fall from its pedestal just from the law of numbers. At some point a device that everyone has can't be cool but common so there is an oppening for RIM.
    I have gotten 21 people (11 this year) to get Playbooks and after listening to Jim (the jackass) Crammer I'm going to make it at least 100. I started a friendly constest ( http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ontest-708204/ ) to see how many playbooks we could help our friends get and twelve people jumped onboard. We have moved over sixty. Several more have not signed up for the contest but left comments on how many of their friends got Playbooks and love them. Even if you don't jump in the contest, show your friends and help them get an awesome tablet and save 300 bucks. Don't let these jerks scare you. RIM is awesome and you don't need to wait for BB10 to see that. Just look at the Bold 9930 and the Playbook.

    CrackBerry Nation is going to prove you wrong again Jim Crammer! You bet I'm going to mark my calendar for one year from now and I'm going to love proving you wrong Goldman boy.

    100% BlackBerry.
    Last edited by guerllamo7; 04-04-12 at 10:25 AM.
    04-04-12 10:09 AM
  2. Chrisy's Avatar
    That guy gives me a headache. He'll be kissing RIM's associated when they're back on top.

    PlayBook auto corrected a word that would have been filtered anyway.
    Mecca EL and kbz1960 like this.
    04-04-12 10:21 AM
  3. s7khan's Avatar
    Some Reasons why RIM Rocks:
    1. Best security. That is why Mi6 and other agencies will always use them.
    2. Best keyboards in the universe. Droid is improving but not there yet. Apple doesnt have any.
    3. People say RIM is not innovating. Maybe, if you define innovation as media but look at all they have rolled out in the last 12 months then take a look at the 4S and iPad3. Who is really innovating faster? BB Traffice with organic voice navigation, BB Music (awesome), BB Bridge, BB Travel, BB Protect. Also in enterprise BlackBerry Mobile Fusion, BlackBerry balance, etc. I'm with RIM.
    4. BES/BESX. Although bring your own device is taking hold in corporate america CIO's are still picking RIM first. RIM may not dominate but will always be strong in enterprise.
    5. RIM has an out for older devices, what they don't sell in the U.S. can be sent and sold to countries that can't get enough of them.
    I don't get your 5th point, can you clarify?

    As for your third: BB Traffic - take a look at Windows Phone Navigation and Android's Navigation, BB Traffic is no comparison yet. I hope it will be in the new BB10, but calling it innovation right now is a stretch.

    BB Music - I've heard very few people calling it awesome. 7Digital, iTunes, Amazon store, imho are much better for music.

    BB Travel - Definitely cool, didn't help when it didn't tell me my flight was rescheduled 4 hrs later (about a week in advance), and I was at the airport twiddling my thumbs. I think I'll just use third party apps for travel purposes from now on.

    BB Protect - Much better then the iPhone equivalent, I don't think Android and Windows Phone has something similar. So I think you're right on this one

    I guess my point being is that what you're calling innovation, I see it more as playing catch up or just isn't good enough.
    04-04-12 10:24 AM
  4. torches's Avatar
    First of all, I have no shares of RIM and I don't have anything to do with the company. I'm just a BlackBerry user that loves the Bold 9930 and Playbook and I'm just tired of being told lies about my devices. BTW, regardless of what follows below, I'm not advocating purchasing shares of RIM (I really don't think this is the right place to make those decisions) but I am advocating continuing to enjoy their devices.

    RIM share were up after Mr. T. spoke on the conference call so needless to say CNBC got some turkey yesterday to say RIM is going bankrupt. Today the stock was up a bit and Jim dropped to the ground and said he could not find a place to draw how low RIM was going. When the Playbook was struggling last year they got some guy with assets under management of 12 million (total, yeah, he was such a titan and expert source!) as a reliable source to say that RIM was going to get out of the tablet market.

    First of all, these type of comments are having the desired impact. I have a friend that left BlackBerry and said he loved my Bold but was afraid the company would go out of business so it matters.

    How right is Jim Cramer?
    This is the former Goldman Sachs guy that said to buy Palm when Goldman was issuing new shares of Palm at 14-16 bucks. Even after they only sold 80k phones on the first week he got behind them.

    The argument goes that RIM is Nokia (at leat they have given up on the Palm comparison since it is too riduculous, even for CNBC). There are several reasons why this does not apply AT ALL.

    RIM is still growing worldwide, the fact that they are still holding on in the U.S. despite the relentless media attacks is a testament to how great they are. CNBC is hurting them but not enough to stop them.

    RIM collects about five bucks on service revenue per device, not from the consumer but from the carriers. Why, because they provide services the carriers need and the carriers are bursting at the seems for signal badwith. They are leasing tower from other companies because they can't get enough bandwith so the argument that they will discontinue paying RIM is about as right as Jim's call on Palm.

    RIM is NOT giving up on the Playbook. They are 100% committed to it because it is the prep/launch pad for their next generation phones. Besides, BB10 is not just a device but a platform and the way the Playbook and the BlackBerry phones work together is enviable. Who else has Bridge and remote? So, another lie.

    They say RIM is going to lose carrier support and that is another lie. Why? because the carriers have seen how much Apple has come to dominate and dictate to them what they must sell their devices for, what to put in them, etc. Just look at Sprint. The stock got cut in half because the made a stupid deal with Apple that actually is hurting them. Carriers will want more than two platforms and carrier CEO's have stated they want RIM because of loyal fans that will always want BlackBerries (such as myself) but also because they don't want to be enslaved to one or two ecosystems or devices.

    So as Jim likes to say, here is the bottom line:
    F U Jim Crammer! This time next year, RIM shares will be about twice as much as they are today and that would still leave them cheap. RIM is closer to Apple in 2003 that it is to Palm or Nokia. Everyone said Apple was dead and Steve Jobs came back, a new CEO/returning CEO, and look at it now. Mr. T. should do something similar in his own way.

    Some Reasons why RIM Rocks:
    1. Best security. That is why Mi6 and other agencies will always use them.
    2. Best keyboards in the universe. Droid is improving but not there yet. Apple doesnt have any.
    3. People say RIM is not innovating. Maybe, if you define innovation as media but look at all they have rolled out in the last 12 months then take a look at the 4S and iPad3. Who is really innovating faster? BB Traffice with organic voice navigation, BB Music (awesome), BB Bridge, BB Travel, BB Protect. Also in enterprise BlackBerry Mobile Fusion, BlackBerry balance, etc. I'm with RIM.
    4. BES/BESX. Although bring your own device is taking hold in corporate america CIO's are still picking RIM first. RIM may not dominate but will always be strong in enterprise.
    5. RIM has an out for older devices, what they don't sell in the U.S. can be sent and sold to countries that can't get enough of them.

    Here is the good news:
    All this smear campaign will end by the end of this year. The media dirtbags like CNBC will not be able to kill RIM before the BB10 devices become available and it is clear to me, judging by the Playbook UI and complete awesomess as well as Mr. T's comments that he gets it about content and desirability, not just functionality and practicality that they will rock. At this point RIM will be very well positioned on innovation.
    Also, it is easy for the top dog to fall from its pedestal just from the law of numbers. At some point a device that everyone has can't be cool but common so there is an oppening for RIM.
    I have gotten 21 people (11 this year) to get Playbooks and after listening to Jim (the jackass) Crammer I'm going to make it at least 100. I started a friendly constest ( http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ontest-708204/ ) to see how many playbooks we could help our friends get and twelve people jumped onboard. We have moved over sixty. Several more have not signed up for the contest but left comments on how many of their friends got Playbooks and love them. Even if you don't jump in the contest, show your friends and help them get an awesome tablet and save 300 bucks. Don't let these jerks scare you. RIM is awesome and you don't need to wait for BB10 to see that. Just look at the Bold 9930 and the Playbook.

    CrackBerry Nation is going to prove you wrong again Jim Crammer! You bet I'm going to mark my calendar for one year from now and I'm going to love proving you wrong Goldman boy.

    100% BlackBerry.
    I don't reside in the US, so I don't know much about Mr. Cramer apart from occasional viewings of his show and from reading business sites.

    But from what I DO know is Mr. Cramer seems to be an investor with a relatively short-term view, perhaps 1-2 years at most. In fact, at times he seems more like a trader than investor. If that's the case, or he has made it clear that's his given time horizon for his RIM call, then he's probably right; RIM is going to be in the rough patches for the next 9-12 months.
    Also, bear in mind, it's always easier to defend a popular decision gone wrong than it is for an unpopular one, especially for someone of Cramer's stature.

    My opinion is, IF you're going to investing in RIM, be prepared for the incoming rough times and avoid obsessively following mainstream financial media screaming at you left & right to dump RIM. It doesn't help keeping your discipline and financial emotions in check.

    The standard investment disclaimer applies: The information provided on or within this website or in documents available herein is for assistance only and is not intended to be and must not be taken alone as the basis for an investment decision...etc etc)
    Mecca EL likes this.
    04-04-12 10:25 AM
  5. guerllamo7's Avatar
    s7khan,

    On the fifth point: RIM is truly a global company and the world is at various stages of technological development. RIM has in the past taken devices that were nearing their end of life cycles in the U.S. and moved them over to other countries where the technology is at a different point.
    s7khan and torches like this.
    04-04-12 10:29 AM
  6. pkcable's Avatar
    I liked Kramer better when he was on Seinfeld!
    04-04-12 10:32 AM
  7. hootyhoo's Avatar
    I liked Kramer better when he was on Seinfeld!
    That's exactly who I keep picturing!
    04-04-12 10:42 AM
  8. jefftam68's Avatar
    S7khan said:
    "BB Music - I've heard very few people calling it awesome. 7Digital, iTunes, Amazon store, imho are much better for music. "

    I don't know, I think having access to a few million songs for $5 a month is apples and oranges to paying for each and every song, even if you don't listen to them more than once or twice. BBM music is a remarkable service
    quik4life, Mecca EL and s7khan like this.
    04-04-12 10:58 AM
  9. pkcable's Avatar
    04-04-12 11:02 AM
  10. houshinto#IM's Avatar
    I have no idea why Kramer still even has a show. He's a deceitful loudmouth ignoramus who was partly responsible for the false reporting/investing tips that led up to the 2008 mortgage crisis.

    Even Jon Stewart brought him to task, a comedy show, how bloody obvious can it be?

    I'm surprised he's not off the air and locked behind bars ongoing a criminal investigation of Wall Street. Oh yeah.....that never happened too.

    Goes to show that as long as your "Marketing" is loud and flashy enough stupid people will eat it up.

    Anyways, He's just towing the line against RIM since it's "safe" for buffoons like him. Let's not give it another thought.
    Chrisy likes this.
    04-04-12 11:13 AM
  11. tchocky77's Avatar
    TL;DR.

    Suffice it to say that whether or not BalckBerry can survive the next twenty-four months is very much an open question. That's why Thorsten is looking for someone to buy the company. It's probably the only way BlackBerry can carry on. The situation is dire. Selling curves in India and Indonesia at cost and losing cash on every playbook sold is not a plan for long-term success.
    addicted44 likes this.
    04-04-12 11:17 AM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    Cramer's not the only one on cnbc that dumps on RIM every chance he gets. All the anchors take part in it.

    Lol. We get it. Rim has issues.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
    04-04-12 11:34 AM
  13. s7khan's Avatar
    S7khan said:
    "BB Music - I've heard very few people calling it awesome. 7Digital, iTunes, Amazon store, imho are much better for music. "

    I don't know, I think having access to a few million songs for $5 a month is apples and oranges to paying for each and every song, even if you don't listen to them more than once or twice. BBM music is a remarkable service
    I bring the point up because the business model has existed before and failed with Napster.
    04-04-12 12:00 PM
  14. mssca's Avatar
    My question to OP is who the f-03@k is Jim Cramer?

    So, he has a PhD in marketing or mobile engineering?

    Is he an employee of a company or he owns a company like the RIM founders?

    This guy must be so important because you guys are so pi-ss-ed about his actions.

    I am confused... LOL
    Last edited by mss-ca; 04-04-12 at 12:27 PM.
    04-04-12 12:23 PM
  15. southlander's Avatar
    S7khan said:
    "BB Music - I've heard very few people calling it awesome. 7Digital, iTunes, Amazon store, imho are much better for music. "

    I don't know, I think having access to a few million songs for $5 a month is apples and oranges to paying for each and every song, even if you don't listen to them more than once or twice. BBM music is a remarkable service

    Bbm music fits rim's core customer well. Someone who wants cloud based music but does not have time to mess with something like spotify or rdio.

    50 tunes a month is plenty for most. And the selection is good.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
    s7khan likes this.
    04-04-12 12:25 PM
  16. hootyhoo's Avatar
    My question to OP is who the f-03@k is Jim Cramer? So, he has a PhD in marketing or mobile engineering? Is he an employee of a company or is he own a company like RIM founders? This guys must be so important because you guys are so pi-ss-ed about his actions.
    Pk has already explained who he is.
    04-04-12 12:27 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    My question to OP is who the f-03@k is Jim Cramer?

    So, he has a PhD in marketing or mobile engineering?

    Is he an employee of a company or he owns a company like the RIM founders?

    This guy must be so important because you guys are so pi-ss-ed about his actions.

    I am confused... LOL
    News Headlines

    News Headlines

    Mad Money Main
    04-04-12 12:30 PM
  18. jthep's Avatar
    I regularly watch Jim Cramer's show and actually enjoy it. But what I noticed is he tends to recommend stocks after they have had a run up. In other words, picking a stock that has already gone up, doesn't really often help the viewer make money. He absolutely luvs Apple, as does every analyst you can name.

    The other day he was agreeing with what an analyst said on MSNBC about Apple being the first trillion dollar company and that within 2 years it would be trading at $1000+ a share.

    Now I am not a stock analyst, I do not have the Harvard education Cramer has, or the lucrative success he had in managing a hedge fund, but I do know that historically it is dangerous to invest in a company that soooo many are high on. Its like the old poker saying, "If you look around the room and can't find the sucker, its probably you". Well thats the way I feel about Apple.

    Steve Jobs is dead, they have not had a new product launch since what, the iPad? All Apple appears to be doing now is improving on old gadgets and for some unknown reasons, they continue to sell these old products with little improvement or innovation at a higher rate than anyone else? My question is for Apple, can it grow anymore? Their products are not cheap, so that eliminates many people in poorer countries from buying their stuff. Also I really think their competitors have caught up, but Americans have yet to take notice. When Americans realize alternative devices that are cheaper, newer, and Apple starts to get played out, then what? I don't know when that will be, but that day will come.

    As for RIM, they still have no debt, they have 77 million active users, shipped 11 million phones last quarter, 500,000 Playbooks, had about 4.5 BILLION in revenue, trade at about 5x forward earnings and have not had a positive catalyst in quite some time.

    I am thinking Apple is still the superior company but overbought and RIM is as oversold a company as I have ever seen. Despite RIM's failures of late, it is still financially sound and has an OS on the horizon to rival anything we have seen in mobile devices that we are already seeing a glimpse of in the Playbook.

    My point is, I don't think RIM is the dead company Cramer makes it out to be. And why can't the mobile world have multiple players? Why can't their be iOS, Android, BB10, WP?
    04-04-12 02:33 PM
  19. undone's Avatar
    Steve Jobs is dead, they have not had a new product launch since what, the iPad? All Apple appears to be doing now is improving on old gadgets and for some unknown reasons, they continue to sell these old products with little improvement or innovation at a higher rate than anyone else? My question is for Apple, can it grow anymore? Their products are not cheap, so that eliminates many people in poorer countries from buying their stuff. Also I really think their competitors have caught up, but Americans have yet to take notice. When Americans realize alternative devices that are cheaper, newer, and Apple starts to get played out, then what? I don't know when that will be, but that day will come.
    They also make less margin on the iPad then the iPhone. And with the increase of cost for the latest iPad even less on it. Hence you are seeing hints and whispers of the iPhone 5 in June. Offering a dividend is also something that will weigh on them, it changes your investor base. Apple is at its peak, sure it can run up, but the resistance will be greater and greater as they go on.

    Kramer is a great entertainer and as long as you read between the lines you cant go wrong with some fun investment entertainment.
    04-04-12 02:46 PM
  20. jthep's Avatar
    I think what is great about Cramer is he keeps investing entertaining and fun when it can often be nerve racking and depressing.

    Apple still makes big margins on their iPhones though bc the American carriers subsidize the cost to the customer so much by offering it for $200 with a contract. Apple could sell their iPhones to the carriers for $600 and the carriers pick up $400 of it and defer the costs though the 2-3 year contract. Sprint is banking their whole future on this.

    But iPads? I think as they keep trying to push the hardware, their margins will decrease. iPods still sell, but as more and more people adopt smartphones that can play MP3's and batteries in smartphones keep getting better, why buy an iPod? Macs? Still sell, but laptops and desktops as a whole have declined in sales.

    I just don't know how Apple or any company can sustain or grow upon the success they have already had without a new groundbreaking product?

    Also stocks that pay dividends are usually from companies that don't expect to grow at as high a rate anymore. You know, well established blue chip companies that just continue to do what they do really well. Growth companies tend to put profits back into growing the company and push it further rather than pay the share holders cash just to own the stock. Thats not to say I am giving advice not to own dividend paying stocks, I think they are safer bets in the long run that earn more to own than leaving your money in a savings account even if the stock does nothing.

    But Apple is now a dividend stock, so I am think their days of growth are at an end. Now its just maintaining what they have done so well...
    Last edited by jthep; 04-04-12 at 03:18 PM.
    04-04-12 03:06 PM
  21. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Can't understand why the OP is uptight about Jim's comments. Just look at RiMM's stock performance over the past year....


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    04-04-12 04:46 PM
  22. dentynefire's Avatar
    I have no idea why Kramer still even has a show. He's a deceitful loudmouth ignoramus who was partly responsible for the false reporting/investing tips that led up to the 2008 mortgage crisis.

    Even Jon Stewart brought him to task, a comedy show, how bloody obvious can it be?

    I'm surprised he's not off the air and locked behind bars ongoing a criminal investigation of Wall Street. Oh yeah.....that never happened too.

    Goes to show that as long as your "Marketing" is loud and flashy enough stupid people will eat it up.

    Anyways, He's just towing the line against RIM since it's "safe" for buffoons like him. Let's not give it another thought.
    Because A LOT of people are desperate, greedy, ignorant and IDK am I forgetting something else?
    04-04-12 04:47 PM
  23. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I bring the point up because the business model has existed before and failed with Napster.
    It's quite different for a couple of reasons. Napster (I gather you're speaking of the legit one that Rhapsody owns now) was more expensive, for one thing.

    For another, device support on Napster sucked for a fair while (Zunes were good on them by the end, though).

    BBM Music is turning out to be rather cool, in its own weird little way. I like it because it's low cost, and I get the chance to search new stuff out and try it cheap. I also get to build playlists off of everyone I'm connected to. I think there's about 1,500 songs I can connect to currently, and I'm finding new stuff I hadn't heard before.
    s7khan likes this.
    04-04-12 05:35 PM
  24. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Can't understand why the OP is uptight about Jim's comments. Just look at RiMM's stock performance over the past year....


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    Yes, about that... RIM currently carries a market cap of around $6bln. There's something ridiculously wrong with that, considering that they have upwards of $2bln CASH and continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars a month.

    They're WAY below even book value. Do we have any idea what's up with that?
    04-04-12 05:37 PM
  25. dentynefire's Avatar
    Yes, about that... RIM currently carries a market cap of around $6bln. There's something ridiculously wrong with that, considering that they have upwards of $2bln CASH and continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars a month.

    They're WAY below even book value. Do we have any idea what's up with that?
    Apple and Google really. It probably isn't any more complicated than not being able to sell (as many) smartphones in the biggest and richest market there is.

    Below book value hmmmm lots of companies trade below book. I think with RIMM as a stock, people are just less interested and have taken their money elsewhere. If you checkout GOOG and AAPL that money has to come from somewhere right?

    We just need to let RIM develop the best BB10 they can, hopefully all Cascades for the core apps plus some TAT developed ones! Time will tell.
    04-04-12 06:37 PM
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