02-27-11 07:13 PM
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  1. stasber's Avatar
    Just having a rant at BlackBerry's self-deluded optimism really.

    A mixture of and and and

    I never really saw BB as a mobile phone option over the years as it mainly touted itself as a business machine and then trying out handsets in shops just showed me yet another obscure operating system I couldn't quite fathom out so never gave it a second look.

    But last year I became self-employed and made the 'mistake' of trying out a 9700 Bold in a shop and found it quite addictive as the OS was just pretty much perfect - it 'did what it says on the tin' as the saying goes, and it's crisp & clean with some very good ideas. So I'm a firm convert and it's the first phone I can admit to being smitten by. Love it to bits though don't like OS6 so downgraded back to OS5.

    Whilst the BB concept has some great ideas & execution, why does it so underperform in other basic ways! Some basics have been around for years in most other mobiles and others shouldn't need 3rd party apps to fix!

    Cop on BB... remember you're supposed to be top of your game and HELP business users especially (I am one now) and not HINDER them. You have had YEARS of practice.

    (I'm a Mac user by the way)

    - Tethered sync only, no bluetooth? How many years behind are you again?

    - Address Book sync - only way to sync is by selecting groups of contacts but what's the point if this is lost on the BB, as I have to create new groups (categories) anyway and remember to update each manually to keep them in sync.

    - Creating and populating new categories on the BB is very tedious. For example I can't create/open the category and simply mark the contacts I wish to add. Have to go into each contact one by one, edit, apply category, save then move on. 8 categories, over 500 contacts, it took forever. And then make sure that my computer's address book mirrors the same just to be sure.

    - Calendar entries can't be duplicated, need to recreate an entry from scratch using the same information, just with a new date (example, client books in again for a week's time - same details, new time, minor change to the note).

    - No bookmark sync - have a desktop manager, handset has a browser, but yet can't sync selected bookmarks. Go figure. Ask Nokia or SonyEricsson for tips.

    - Can't add email or phone numbers to existing contacts, only create new. (And the 3rd party app I use won't extract an address/number only use the sender info.) This is basic ffs! "Hahaha good ol' copy & paste..." sorry, doesn't cut it for me, this should be a given for business users.

    - New contact numbers default to Work field. That's arrogant. Most of mine are Mobile numbers so I should at least be able to choose the default field.

    - Sending contacts or inserting various contact details into texts or emails. Nuff said I think. "Hahaha good ol' copy & paste..." Nope.

    - Can't use an email address from a cached list of previous addresses, only from the address book/contacts list. That's also tedious.

    - Can't filter email sent to a list and not to me directly. I've Gmail split to go into 2 separate mailboxes on the BB via BIS, one personal and one business. Unfortunately some business mail ends up in the personal mailbox as the filter isn't clever enough to realise that my business address (the one filtered on) is part of a list as it only allows filtering on a hard "to" or a hard "cc" address. As if business don't send or receive mailing lists.

    - Can't edit basic txt file (even with DocsToGo). Have to use heavyweight Word - a cross-platform problem if Word isn't installed or otherwise supported on the recipient's machine or device. Txt files are as small & simple as they come. And there's no way of transferring or using the built-in NotePad ( which I use extensively) for the same purposes other than copy & paste into an email or text. (Yes I've tried syncing with my Mail app on the Mac, that's not what I'm talking about).

    Anyways rant over. Flame, grill, roast or barbecue me, whichever takes your fancy. Had to get it off my chest. Thanks. Answers on a postcard.
    02-26-11 09:57 AM
  2. syb0rg's Avatar
    You have very valid points in my book. Nothing wrong with the request you made.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-26-11 10:25 AM
  3. MrObvious's Avatar
    If you sync your contacts with Google you can edit it a lot easier. Also you can sync contacts over the air too.
    02-26-11 01:38 PM
  4. stasber's Avatar
    My Gmail contact list isn't the same as my Mac Address Book and I prefer to sync with the Mac as it's the way I work.

    How can I sync contacts over the air without resorting to 3rd party apps? iSync doesn't support the Bold (unless you're referring to the Missing Sync at $40 and generally poor opinions which I won't risk).

    Also, the point of the post/rant was pointing a finger at how far BB (RIM) falls short. Both of your suggestions require "other people's" solutions to a BB lack of forethought.
    02-26-11 01:57 PM
  5. MrObvious's Avatar
    My Gmail contact list isn't the same as my Mac Address Book and I prefer to sync with the Mac as it's the way I work.

    How can I sync contacts over the air without resorting to 3rd party apps? iSync doesn't support the Bold (unless you're referring to the Missing Sync at $40 and generally poor opinions which I won't risk).

    Also, the point of the post/rant was pointing a finger at how far BB (RIM) falls short. Both of your suggestions require "other people's" solutions to a BB lack of forethought.
    Ah I see. Point taken. But if you sync your Mac w\ Google and your phone you'd be surprised how much easier life would be.
    02-26-11 02:07 PM
  6. stasber's Avatar
    Yeah I did consider Google Sync and even downloaded it and *nearly* synced but stopped when I realised that I had to sync contacts and couldn't exclude them. It would have thrown my contact list way off par.

    My main address book has some 500 organised and detailed contacts whereas my Gmail contacts list way over a thousand, many are just bit-parts and thin on the ground and it's these I'm not interested in so much. I imported my address book to Gmail once which created enough work to reconcile them all. A lot of hassle.

    As it is I update my Google calendars and sync in iCal then use the DM to sync the phone.


    Tell me though - is there any correlation between groups in Google contacts and categories on the BB, i.e. are they preserved? If I did start syncing "3-way" then I wouldn't want 3 sets of groups/categories to maintain manually. I make new clients and business networking all the time, so the groups need to be kept current.
    02-26-11 02:22 PM
  7. moiselles's Avatar
    Can't add email or phone numbers to existing contacts, only create new. (And the 3rd party app I use won't extract an address/number only use the sender info.) This is basic ffs! "Hahaha good ol' copy & paste..." sorry, doesn't cut it for me, this should be a given for business users.

    I can add other phone numbers and email addresses to my existing contacts. That seems like a basic function. I'm on OS6.

    Creating and populating new categories on the BB is very tedious. For example I can't create/open the category and simply mark the contacts I wish to add. Have to go into each contact one by one, edit, apply category, save then move on. 8 categories, over 500 contacts, it took forever. And then make sure that my computer's address book mirrors the same just to be sure.

    I created a group and was able to add contacts right from the group category. Didn't have to go into each contact and edit them. Maybe this is a funtion new to OS6?
    02-26-11 02:29 PM
  8. stasber's Avatar
    I tried OS6 when it was released for my device and hated it, actually - not as slick as 5, too much fussing about imo. But if adding numbers and emails (including extracting them from messages) to existing contacts is possible then wahey BB, one brownie point for you. How many years and iterations was that? Yes a basic function.

    Groups and Categories seem to have different uses. Groups add a new record to the address book, presumably for group mailings, and you can view the contacts in them by name or by address. But you can't call or email them directly from that list (you can view or edit a contact). A new record is also added to my Mac's address book, a blank entry - not what I want. Categories can be filtered on and dialed or emailed directly from the list.

    Even with adding contacts to a Group, it would be very simple to mark from a list those you want to add, rather than add one, back to list and add another, back to list and add another... This is all pretty basic stuff. A time waster.

    Just tried Google Sync again and this time for some reason it tells me my device isn't supported. ** hum.
    02-26-11 03:30 PM
  9. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I can add other phone numbers and email addresses to my existing contacts. That seems like a basic function. I'm on OS6.
    If you have a number in your phone log that's not associated with a contact, select the number and bring up the menu. Does it give you an option to add to an existing contact or just to Add a New Contact? I think that's where the complaint lies. In earlier versions, to add to an existing contact you have to copy the number and then open the existing contact and paste it in.
    02-26-11 04:34 PM
  10. moiselles's Avatar
    If you have a number in your phone log that's not associated with a contact, select the number and bring up the menu. Does it give you an option to add to an existing contact or just to Add a New Contact? I think that's where the complaint lies. In earlier versions, to add to an existing contact you have to copy the number and then open the existing contact and paste it in.
    You are correct. Doing it that way only gives me the option to add to a New Contact. But, I don't really care if I have to C&P the phone # or email address to an existing contact, it's just not something that bothers me to the point where I wouldn't want to own a BB.
    02-26-11 04:39 PM
  11. howarmat's Avatar
    I hate having to copy paste to existig contact. I was very happy to see android made this simple and as it should be. Click the number and add to existing contact and i can make it work, home, cell etc all at the same time. RIM still hasnt figured this small thing out.
    02-26-11 05:09 PM
  12. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    It doesn't impact me often enough to get to the hate level, but it would be nice.
    02-26-11 07:03 PM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I hate to say it, but you really have two options here. Either start using Outlook as your contact manager on the Mac or switch over to an iPhone. The way the sync works with the native Mac programs, iTunes and the iPhone would get all your stuff on the two platforms much more in sync. BB likes to sync with Outlook better. You'd be able to sync your contacts (without messing with distribution lists), calendar, notes (memo pad on the BB), etc. much easier. Take your pick... Plus it would solve your little problems like the add number to existing contact, bookmark sync, etc. if you were to go iPhone. Mac and BB just don't play well for the time being, sorry.
    jeffh likes this.
    02-27-11 12:26 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just having a rant at BlackBerry's self-deluded optimism really.

    A mixture of and and and

    I never really saw BB as a mobile phone option over the years as it mainly touted itself as a business machine and then trying out handsets in shops just showed me yet another obscure operating system I couldn't quite fathom out so never gave it a second look.

    But last year I became self-employed and made the 'mistake' of trying out a 9700 Bold in a shop and found it quite addictive as the OS was just pretty much perfect - it 'did what it says on the tin' as the saying goes, and it's crisp & clean with some very good ideas. So I'm a firm convert and it's the first phone I can admit to being smitten by. Love it to bits though don't like OS6 so downgraded back to OS5.

    Whilst the BB concept has some great ideas & execution, why does it so underperform in other basic ways! Some basics have been around for years in most other mobiles and others shouldn't need 3rd party apps to fix!

    Cop on BB... remember you're supposed to be top of your game and HELP business users especially (I am one now) and not HINDER them. You have had YEARS of practice.

    (I'm a Mac user by the way)

    - Tethered sync only, no bluetooth? How many years behind are you again?

    - Address Book sync - only way to sync is by selecting groups of contacts but what's the point if this is lost on the BB, as I have to create new groups (categories) anyway and remember to update each manually to keep them in sync.

    - Creating and populating new categories on the BB is very tedious. For example I can't create/open the category and simply mark the contacts I wish to add. Have to go into each contact one by one, edit, apply category, save then move on. 8 categories, over 500 contacts, it took forever. And then make sure that my computer's address book mirrors the same just to be sure.

    - Calendar entries can't be duplicated, need to recreate an entry from scratch using the same information, just with a new date (example, client books in again for a week's time - same details, new time, minor change to the note).

    - No bookmark sync - have a desktop manager, handset has a browser, but yet can't sync selected bookmarks. Go figure. Ask Nokia or SonyEricsson for tips.

    - Can't add email or phone numbers to existing contacts, only create new. (And the 3rd party app I use won't extract an address/number only use the sender info.) This is basic ffs! "Hahaha good ol' copy & paste..." sorry, doesn't cut it for me, this should be a given for business users.

    - New contact numbers default to Work field. That's arrogant. Most of mine are Mobile numbers so I should at least be able to choose the default field.

    - Sending contacts or inserting various contact details into texts or emails. Nuff said I think. "Hahaha good ol' copy & paste..." Nope.

    - Can't use an email address from a cached list of previous addresses, only from the address book/contacts list. That's also tedious.

    - Can't filter email sent to a list and not to me directly. I've Gmail split to go into 2 separate mailboxes on the BB via BIS, one personal and one business. Unfortunately some business mail ends up in the personal mailbox as the filter isn't clever enough to realise that my business address (the one filtered on) is part of a list as it only allows filtering on a hard "to" or a hard "cc" address. As if business don't send or receive mailing lists.

    - Can't edit basic txt file (even with DocsToGo). Have to use heavyweight Word - a cross-platform problem if Word isn't installed or otherwise supported on the recipient's machine or device. Txt files are as small & simple as they come. And there's no way of transferring or using the built-in NotePad ( which I use extensively) for the same purposes other than copy & paste into an email or text. (Yes I've tried syncing with my Mail app on the Mac, that's not what I'm talking about).

    Anyways rant over. Flame, grill, roast or barbecue me, whichever takes your fancy. Had to get it off my chest. Thanks. Answers on a postcard.
    Lol, you might wanna change the title as none of your complaints have anything to do with a actual communications. I get emails and respond to them the same minute it was sent, that is king of communication. In email it's sent at 12:00, received 12:00, my response sent 12:00

    " Can't use an email address from a cached list of previous addresses, only from the address book/contacts list. That's also tedious"

    When composing email start typing the email address, you don't need to go trough the address book.
    02-27-11 03:07 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I tried OS6 when it was released for my device and hated it, actually - not as slick as 5, too much fussing about imo. But if adding numbers and emails (including extracting them from messages) to existing contacts is possible then wahey BB, one brownie point for you. How many years and iterations was that? Yes a basic function.

    Groups and Categories seem to have different uses. Groups add a new record to the address book, presumably for group mailings, and you can view the contacts in them by name or by address. But you can't call or email them directly from that list (you can view or edit a contact). A new record is also added to my Mac's address book, a blank entry - not what I want. Categories can be filtered on and dialed or emailed directly from the list.

    Even with adding contacts to a Group, it would be very simple to mark from a list those you want to add, rather than add one, back to list and add another, back to list and add another... This is all pretty basic stuff. A time waster.

    Just tried Google Sync again and this time for some reason it tells me my device isn't supported. ** hum.
    You don't need google sync anymore, when you set up your gmail account on your BIS site you can set it to sync your contacts and calendar as well.
    02-27-11 03:10 AM
  16. Ferretling's Avatar
    My email caches addresses just fine. Not all the ones I send to are in my contacts, and I don't use Google's address book. I run OS6. Maybe it's an OS5 thing...
    02-27-11 03:44 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    My email caches addresses just fine. Not all the ones I send to are in my contacts, and I don't use Google's address book. I run OS6. Maybe it's an OS5 thing...
    As far as I can tell OS5 collects them just fine but they're not available in the address book, just when you compose an email.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 05:32 AM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I hate to say it, but you really have two options here. Either start using Outlook as your contact manager on the Mac or switch over to an iPhone. The way the sync works with the native Mac programs, iTunes and the iPhone would get all your stuff on the two platforms much more in sync. BB likes to sync with Outlook better. You'd be able to sync your contacts (without messing with distribution lists), calendar, notes (memo pad on the BB), etc. much easier. Take your pick... Plus it would solve your little problems like the add number to existing contact, bookmark sync, etc. if you were to go iPhone. Mac and BB just don't play well for the time being, sorry.
    I was about to Say basically the same thing

    Most of your problems would be solved if you did 1or2 things, Use Outlook, OR Ditch the Mac.
    Since chances are you enjoy using your Mac, I would greatly suggest getting Office 2011 for Mac, Outlook is still the Industry standard, and makes contact management a breeze.
    02-27-11 08:13 AM
  19. stasber's Avatar
    Well so far everyone's concurring with my original post by jumping in with their suggestions and solutions for BB's shortfall.

    My original post is all about communication; anything that adds time or complexity to do something is only taking away from productivity and I would have thought the design of products for business users is to give them the tools to make the most of their time. The functionality should be right there (and a lot of it is, which is what I love about the BB), like it has been in most other phones for a long time. BB creates 'messing around' time to these basic things.

    Using Outlook won't solve the issues I mentioned with the BB OS. As much as I've been a Mac addict for many years I played with all versions of the iPhone as they came and think that the iPhone 4 has come on leaps and bounds, but at the end of the day I just don't like it at all. On the other hand I'm a fairly recent (6 months) convert to the BB and love it to bits, just very surprised and a bit stunned that they claim to be geared for business users yet omit some basic but highly useful functionality.

    If someone sends me a text with your email address I might email you immediately. Later if I want to email you again, say, forward you some email, I have to find your email address again unless I saved it in the address book. Yes I start typing an address & select when it comes up; the point being that cached addresses per above example aren't available to choose from. If you work like this frequently then it does get on ones mammaries.

    I tend not to use a desktop client as I find Gmail's tag system faster, simpler and more effective than smart folders and/or copying messages into multiple folders. I think it's the way ahead. A new business opportunity requiring travel would get filed in a number of places and moved according to the outcome, whilst remaining in others. The Gmail plugin is pretty cool so it's a thumbs up for that.

    Good point about the Google sync/BIS sync belfastdispatcher. The problem I have with using my Gmail contacts is that I need to go through them and reconcile them with the Address Book on my Mac, which I currently sync with (boring & time consuming). There's so much crap in the Google contacts, both in the My Contacts and the remaining flotsam. Messy and I'll hold my breath one day and dive into it I'm sure. On the calendar front I prefer to mark the entries I make on the move so that I can add them/complete them appropriately when I'm at the machine as some of my calendars are shared with certain individuals (appointments, events, meetings...), they don't all go into one big pot, and I need some way of easily identifying new entries made on the move (i.e. adding them to a default Mobile calendar in iCal, bright red, which, when moved, sync automatically with the delegated Gmail calendars).

    Maybe I have a 3rd option JRSCCivic98 (liking your sig blurb thingy btw) & deRusett but there's no way I'm getting rid of my coveted BB . I used Outlook for many years on Windows (or Windoze for those Mactards who don't know what Windows is ) so am familiar with it through to 2009. If you're suggesting that I'll keep my BB Categories synced both ways with it then that's a brownie point for Outlook though you'd wonder why the DM is set up to require selection of contact groups to sync then just ignore them, requiring a user to set them up on the device & manually keep them in check.

    I played with OS6 for a few days and ran back to OS5. Call me a Luddite but that's where I am at the moment, I much prefer OS5 though it is obviously lacking; even at version 5 and many years of practice. Sounds like one or two of these might be solved in OS6 but, in the words of Yoda, "Behind, you are, hmmmm".

    Ireland tonight is preparing for a new cardboard cutout leader. If you thought politics was dry, cream crackers have nothing on this guy.

    An oldie but always funny - enjoy
    02-27-11 02:49 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    "If someone sends me a text with your email address I might email you immediately. Later if I want to email you again, say, forward you some email, I have to find your email address again unless I saved it in the address book. Yes I start typing an address & select when it comes up; the point being that cached addresses per above example aren't available to choose from. If you work like this frequently then it does get on ones mammaries."

    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing but once you send an email to any email address you will always have it in your phone unless you delete them using the desktop manager.
    Once you compose an email if you type the first letter of that email address it will show it to you as on option. That's a good set up in my view as some email addresses you might not want to save in your address book but they're still available in case you need them.
    What's this obsession with address book sync tho, how many new contacts do you need to ad daily?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 04:58 PM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    "If someone sends me a text with your email address I might email you immediately. Later if I want to email you again, say, forward you some email, I have to find your email address again unless I saved it in the address book. Yes I start typing an address & select when it comes up; the point being that cached addresses per above example aren't available to choose from. If you work like this frequently then it does get on ones mammaries."

    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing but once you send an email to any email address you will always have it in your phone unless you delete them using the desktop manager.
    Once you compose an email if you type the first letter of that email address it will show it to you as on option. That's a good set up in my view as some email addresses you might not want to save in your address book but they're still available in case you need them.
    What's this obsession with address book sync tho, how many new contacts do you need to ad daily?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    i think that is a option you can turn on/off actually. so the user might not have it enabled. I think you can also change it to only work with contacts. have to go back and look at the settings
    02-27-11 05:11 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    i think that is a option you can turn on/off actually. so the user might not have it enabled. I think you can also change it to only work with contacts. have to go back and look at the settings
    You are right, to enable it go to messages folder/menu/options/general options/set "show recent contacts when composing emails" to yes

    I'm not 100% sure but I think that's it.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 05:17 PM
  23. stasber's Avatar
    Seems we're talking about the same thing and that is a good setup and is what I would have expected from a BB - so it looks like the options you describe are now available in 6. Not in 5.

    I don't have an obsession; someone picked up on one of the points and that's what we're now talking about.
    02-27-11 05:20 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Seems we're talking about the same thing and that is a good setup and is what I would have expected from a BB - so it looks like the options you describe are now available in 6. Not in 5.

    I don't have an obsession; someone picked up on one of the points and that's what we're now talking about.
    Nope, running OS5 not OS6, this has been available for a loooong time with blackberry, I'll double check but I'm pretty sure my 7230 can do this as well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-11 05:26 PM
  25. stasber's Avatar
    Lucky you, this does my head in! Don't have it on my one and have checked the Options menu in the email app several times, including being creative with different wording possibilities but don't see anything like it. I'm on .351.
    02-27-11 05:35 PM
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