[dorbit]

I'd just like to clarify a few things.

It may well be, as you infer, that few could have done much better than our Thors .....

I never inferred any such thing. I think a proper CEO search could have yielded much better candidates.

So, in a time of pessimism (the only optimism was within CB circles and they were clearly raging about the "negativity" outside CB), with the stock falling off a cliff, with commentators and even a few of the most astute CB'ers discussing how bleak the outcome was, you think Thor, who has been deep inside the company the entire time, knows the products, knows the competition, knows the internal struggles, believes that HE can turn it around. This despite the fact that you say it was almost certain he could not.

You certainly paint Thor as very delusional and/or narcissistic. Your scenario makes him far more incompetent than others are portraying him.

He believed that staggered launch would be the way to go. He believed that skimpy marketing was the way to go. He believed that stretching out the product line corresponding to financial quarters was the way to go. He believed that BB10 was indeed setting records and meeting all expectations - as he sat and saw the numbers come in each and every day.......sure.....

You know, he could have walked away (maybe only with a few million). He could have made a radical course change. He didn't, because he knew exactly what was happening and had long before accepted his role - he isn't as inbred-donkey stupid as you portray him.

PS. Ray, Mc65c02 and others are correct, your moral reasoning is not sound. The fact that you think many others might not resist the lure of cash (and you may well be right) does not morally justify the behavior.....and others have turned down such positions, believe it or not.

Firstly, when Thor took over, there was a lot more optimism than exists today. BBX or BB10 was just around the corner and a number of insiders, industry personnel & pundits thought the new OS with QNX at its heart had potential to vault Blackberry back into a more competitive position. I'm not suggesting to you that everything was rosy, but the prospects looked a lot better than they do today.

Secondly, I don't think that Thor was delusional or narcissistic, but he certainly over estimated his ability and likely under estimated the challenges. My reference to delusional was aimed at Mc65c02 for suggesting that Thor should have turned down the job under the circumstances that it was offered to him.

Lastly, I never portrayed Thor as a stupid inbred-donkey. I said that he was way out of his league. Big difference.

[M65c02]

I'd just like to clarify a few things. I never inferred any such thing. I think a proper CEO search could have yielded much better candidates.
Firstly, when Thor took over, there was a lot more optimism than exists today. BBX or BB10 was just around the corner and a number of insiders, industry personnel & pundits thought the new OS with QNX at its heart had potential to vault Blackberry back into a more competitive position. I'm not suggesting to you that everything was rosy, but the prospects looked a lot better than they do today.

Secondly, I don't think that Thor was delusional or narcissistic, but he certainly over estimated his ability and likely under estimated the challenges. My reference to delusional was aimed at Mc65c02 for suggesting that Thor should have turned down the job under the circumstances that it was offered to him.

Lastly, ... I said that he was way out of his league.

Yes, per your quote: ... "when Thors took over there was a lot more enthusiasm." This is one of those classic understatements that we see in one post of most every CB thread. I think that what you are saying in this first paragraph is that Thors had a great opportunity and, as supported by industry experts, BB was poised to regain some of its lots status in the smart phone market. Well, so far, you're supporting Ridchardat's and M65c02's (my) thesis.

My apologies for my error in inference: But I thought that one of your main points was that Thor had done a good job, all things considered. Therefore, I'm losing your thought process here. It appears, now, that we "all" agree that Thor had the opportunity to turn BB around. Okay, as you state, clarification is important.

In your second paragraph, however, you emphasize that the worm (i.e., synonym for delusional, narcissistic, and bad judge of his abilities), Thor, should not be judged poorly simply for having had an inability to take a company that was otherwise with good reason optimistic about resurgence and instead kill it. But you insist: "I don't think that Thor was delusional or narcissistic but he certainly over estimated his ability and likely under estimated the challenges." This, my CB friend, overlaps with the definition of all those adjectives you insist are not descriptive of our leader. You provide the icing--i.e., further support--to the cake when adding: "he was way out of his league."

Arrogance = having an ability of self importance, merit, or abilities, (Marked by feeling of self importance or superiority towards another. [Note: You might refer to the relatively recent press Q/A session wherin Thors was quoted as blaming the consumers for being [idiots].]
Delusional = False or unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities
Nacissism = Ego-centrism and smugness

Maybe do a rethink on this one for a few moments and tell me how much these definitions differ from the adjectives for personality traits of our BB leader: arrogance, narcissism, and even delusional. Other than na�ve, what other adjectives, off the top of your head, would better describe him (and, granted, there are a few more).
Actually, in the end, you support the contention of most of these Thors naysayers better than we do by saying that Thors took over a company in a much better position than (at least) I would say. But your insistence on an attempt to sway back to this come clean after the fact and/or we all forgive your error routine is now even tougher to accept given your point that Thors took over an even better company than I might have insisted . You were given six, or more, quotes since M65c02 (many more before) that insist the Thors should be held wholly responsible. I still see nothing to have weakened any of these opinions.

Yes, clarification is usually a good thing.

[Skandalous1]

Dunking Heins: The Irrational Exhuberance of The World's Most Optimistic CEO

Fifty Shades of "Nay": Denying the Future, Mike Lazaridus-Style

"Nine People Can't Make a Baby" and Other CEO Comments Which Demonstrate Your Business May Be Skidding Off The Rails

Blackberry: Jammed

Eating Blackberry: Tim Cook Larry Page and Sergey Brin on Crushing All Rivals

I Supported Blackberry and I Bought Shares: Memoirs of a Homeless Man

[xanadome]

I dont think he meant worse as in having $1 billion worth of unsold inventory in a warehouse somewhere...if he did mean that then maybe he should have slowed down production to avoid the write down or else he looks even more incompetent.

Exactly.
It requires special skill and bravery to run up $1B worth of inventory in a matter of how many month? 6 months or so?
And we are not even talking about the products of higher unit price. It's a measly cell phone, people!
In order to build up this much inventory of a few hundred dollars cell phone in such a short time, there must have been no control or monitoring of production rate, and someone simply must have gambled with a bull mentality. But is it really because of a "steep learning curve"? Sorry, "consumers" are not that stupid.
It's just amazing!
Sorry guys, I am tired of spewing negativities, and even feeling bad about it, but there is no other way of describing the utter ineptness of the BBRY management.

[Carruthers]

Heinz-sight isn't always 20-20.

Posted from my incredible Z10

[jh07]

Gorgeous BlackBerry Bolds, and OS 7.1 which is to this day still plenty good enough for tens of millions of people around the world. (Myself included)

Also in my opinion has more useful apps then 10. I really can't believe that a lot of the major banking apps aren't available on this super platform. I miss the Device Analyzer? On 7.1, might be wrong with the name, but the app that would show that an app was still running.

Posted via CB10

[xBURK]

Interesting.

Can you tell me what you think about this answer from Thor, from todays Globe And Mail article. Do you think this is an accurate answer? Do you think it was the steep learning curve on the Z10 that was the main contributor to low sales, as he states?

Q: How do you feel about the way things have turned out with the BlackBerry 10 launch?

A: We launched a new platform that delivers a new and different user experience, an experience that was engineered for people who value extreme productivity, but the downside is that there is a steeper learning curve when it comes to adopting any new technology that is disruptive, and I believe that contributed to the slower sales.

Well, he did say it contributed. That tells me he realized there were other factors. The press and reviewers made a big deal about the learning curve topic . For me, I learned my way around the Z10 in one hour. Why didn't the marketing crew market appropriately after seeing this as an issue? BB10 was supposed to be an operating system to keep you moving. (it is for me) They did not take this aspect and run with it. People researching BB10 only see that it's hard to learn. It's no wonder they stayed away. So many people to blame for this. I guess you have to start with the obvious. Thor and Frank.

Posted via CB10

[mset]

Well, he did say it contributed. That tells me he realized there were other factors.

Maybe the quote is edited. I'd like to know what he thinks those other things are, so that we could compare what he says he thinks with what we now know.

For me, I learned my way around the Z10 in one hour. Why didn't the marketing crew market appropriately after seeing this as an issue? BB10 was supposed to be an operating system to keep you moving. (it is for me) They did not take this aspect and run with it. People researching BB10 only see that it's hard to learn. It's no wonder they stayed away.

I actually don't believe for a second that it's 'hard to learn', and I always wondered if that complaint really had traction. Were a significant number of returns actually due to people finding the Z10 too confusing? If so, my already battered faith in modern human adults just took another kidney shot.

[mas_quemex]

"BlackBerry - The Underdog"