03-07-10 09:13 AM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Its clear people have a poor working knowledge of the iphone before trying to rip it.

    iPhone HAS push email. How many times can it be said? It pushes exchange, gmail, yahoo, and others WITH full email support- folders, calendar/contact sync, etc. Can BIS users say that WITHOUT needing to pay RIM and extra $15/month and access to a BES server? You may pay the same $30/month but getting a lot less for that $30 than what iphone, Android, and others offer right out of the box.

    2nd lets add up the extra $15 a month for BES to equal the functionailty vs MobileMe. RIM is STILL more expensive over a year and that doesnt even include a hosted BES account at another $10/month if you dont have access to a BES server. So youre talking $55/month for data to have a BB with the same email function that others offer out of the box.

    BESX requires you to run a server, its desktop software for a server. So it doesnt help the individual user and is moot.
    Hey, not trying to be cheeky it anything but is this true. Is Gmail/yahoo on iphone instantly pushed as on blackberry? It takes betwin 7-15 seconds for emails to arive on my blackberry.
    Forghet exchange as that is not free either but what about if you have your own hosted email. Mine is with 1and1.co.uk and set trough pop3 it was taking as long as 15 minutes to get to my blackberry but set trough imap they arive in exactly 7 seconds.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-04-10 05:57 AM
  2. iPhoneLoyalist's Avatar
    Hey, not trying to be cheeky it anything but is this true. Is Gmail/yahoo on iphone instantly pushed as on blackberry? It takes betwin 7-15 seconds for emails to arive on my blackberry.
    Forghet exchange as that is not free either but what about if you have your own hosted email. Mine is with 1and1.co.uk and set trough pop3 it was taking as long as 15 minutes to get to my blackberry but set trough imap they arive in exactly 7 seconds.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    yes that is correct gmail/yahoo are instantly pushed to the iPhone and arrive instantly, im not going to qoute stats as to how fast it gets to the inbox, but i have sent emails to myself to check if it was really pushing and it would come within 5 to 10 seconds for me. probably around the sametime your used to not claiming its fast then blackberry but its the same, you won't notice any difference at all to how fast your gmail, and yahoo are getting to you phone from a blackberry.
    03-04-10 06:05 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Cool, so they are catching up. Now if they would alow multitasking as well the competition would get fierce. I can't see myself changin to an iphone ever but it's nice to have all the facts. Myself, will be going back to qwerty keypad as soon as I can upgrade from my storm 2. Not too happy with the touch screen typing, sometimes I fly on it, othe times I'm slow as **** and keep making mistakes. Worst part is trying to type on an unsupported language, Romanian in my case.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-04-10 06:28 AM
  4. Masahiro's Avatar
    yes that is correct gmail/yahoo are instantly pushed to the iPhone and arrive instantly, im not going to qoute stats as to how fast it gets to the inbox, but i have sent emails to myself to check if it was really pushing and it would come within 5 to 10 seconds for me. probably around the sametime your used to not claiming its fast then blackberry but its the same, you won't notice any difference at all to how fast your gmail, and yahoo are getting to you phone from a blackberry.
    It's not the same "push" as much as it is a "pull" after a long poll (about 15 minute intervals) to maintain a connection to the mail server. The e-mail may be nearly instant, but because of the polling, it's not as battery efficient as fetching (it says so right on the Gmail site). With RIM's setup, e-mail is pushed by the NOC, and so the BlackBerry can just idle and wait for an e-mail without using battery life on polling (which can become significant when polling multiple servers). The downside, of course, is when the NOC goes down. That's the tradeoff.

    Of course, there's MobileMe, but quite frankly I don't feel like paying anymore than I already do for just my phone.
    03-04-10 04:27 PM
  5. stuaw11's Avatar
    It's not the same "push" as much as it is a "pull" after a long poll (about 15 minute intervals) to maintain a connection to the mail server. The e-mail may be nearly instant, but because of the polling, it's not as battery efficient as fetching (it says so right on the Gmail site). With RIM's setup, e-mail is pushed by the NOC, and so the BlackBerry can just idle and wait for an e-mail without using battery life on polling (which can become significant when polling multiple servers). The downside, of course, is when the NOC goes down. That's the tradeoff.

    Of course, there's MobileMe, but quite frankly I don't feel like paying anymore than I already do for just my phone.
    Thats not true, Gmail went to Exchange protocol recently which makes it idle and alerts the phone that theres a message, same as Yahoo, same as mobileMe, or your own school/work exchange account.

    Google turns on Exchange for iPhone and Windows Mobile users

    Theyre all Exchange and work the same as you describe the BB system to be just without the NOC. Theres no interval polling with personal Exchange, MobileMe, Gmail, or Yahoo. There is an XML file that the server will alert on specific folders(inbox,etc) will push a notifier to the device to then pull the data. It might not be EXACTLY the same as how BB push works but its certainly not polling like POP3 or IMAP
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-04-10 at 06:37 PM.
    03-04-10 06:31 PM
  6. iPhoneLoyalist's Avatar
    Thats not true, Gmail went to Exchange protocol recently which makes it idle and alerts the phone that theres a message, same as Yahoo, same as mobileMe, or your own school/work exchange account.

    Google turns on Exchange for iPhone and Windows Mobile users

    Theyre all Exchange and work the same as you describe the BB system to be just without the NOC. Theres no interval polling with personal Exchange, MobileMe, Gmail, or Yahoo.
    i second this post, its not polling anything, its a microsoft exchange set-up its being pushed to the iPhone, the same as mobile me
    03-04-10 06:34 PM
  7. stuaw11's Avatar
    I mean Im not going to sit here and be a fanboy and say the iphone is perfect, no phone is.

    But the incredible amount of FUD being spread is astounding. At least do a Google search first before people talk trash that simply isnt even true.
    03-04-10 07:21 PM
  8. rgray331975's Avatar
    the better a phone is the less sales you will have....FACT
    03-04-10 07:40 PM
  9. stuaw11's Avatar
    Thats like saying the more people who jump off a bridge the better an idea it is.

    Theres little correlation to "good" and sales. Just because people flock to something doesnt automatically make it good.

    Lots of items out there sell a ton but are poor. Look at the Storm for a quick example, sold millions of units but was considered the flop out of BBs for its issues.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-04-10 at 07:53 PM.
    03-04-10 07:49 PM
  10. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    iPhone hands down beats that 1999 OS on BBs. I have to admit I do like the 9700 but I had a Storm 2 and it was a POS. The OS on iPhone runs circles around the BB anyday of the week!!! No comparison. RIM needs to get a good browser and upgrade their OS. Seriously, their browser is a POS!!!
    I'll take RIM's secure 1999 OS over Apple's "updated" one whose security can be cracked like an egg in minutes. You may not value your data, but we do...
    03-04-10 07:51 PM
  11. stuaw11's Avatar
    and VERY few people NEED that type of DOD security in real life- the average consumer sure doesnt.

    Unfounded paranoia is not a legitimate argument.
    03-04-10 07:54 PM
  12. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    and VERY few people NEED that type of DOD security in real life- the average consumer sure doesnt.

    Unfounded paranoia is not a legitimate argument.
    I'm not talking about DOD security, just password protecting your email, contacts and data. You can pop the pword protection on an iPhone with the jailbreaking software, giving the finder or thief of your phone access to ALL your email. It's pretty simple after that to get password reminders sent from your bank acct etc.

    We've got emails with business docs attached. We need to take whatever steps are prudent to protect it. Apple just pretends to be secure and wants you to open up your Exchange server to them...

    Apple betrays the iPhone's business hopes | Mobilize - InfoWorld
    03-04-10 08:11 PM
  13. stuaw11's Avatar
    If you do not change your email and bank passwords accessed on a phone after you lose it then you DESERVE to lose that info. .

    And last time I checked the 3GS on the newer OS doesnt have any of these issues. You cant sit here and argue a model almost 2 years old and 3 or 4 Os updates ago is this or that, most people will be replacing them if they havent soon. And anyone worried about that issue can easily get a 3GS or update their OS. I dont think many corporations are going out and buying iphone 2Gs for their employees... probably the newest model anyways.

    Again theres a BIG difference between mandated security and a business' choice to have it. VERY few NEED that security by default by federal law. Choosing to do so doesnt mean it NEEDS to be done. Its an illogical conclusion to say otherwise that a personal decision is a must have.

    And this is again narrowing the discussion back into corporate-only hole which is FAR from the total user base of either platform. Nearly HALF of RIMs customers are consumers, and even more are consumer iphone users (about 80%). Corporate use is only one SMALL chunk of the discussion compared to general consumer use that you keep trying to pigeon hole it into to fit your argument. The individual consumer is the majority of users of these devices these days.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-04-10 at 08:37 PM.
    03-04-10 08:18 PM
  14. iPhoneLoyalist's Avatar
    I'm not talking about DOD security, just password protecting your email, contacts and data. You can pop the pword protection on an iPhone with the jailbreaking software, giving the finder or thief of your phone access to ALL your email. It's pretty simple after that to get password reminders sent from your bank acct etc.

    We've got emails with business docs attached. We need to take whatever steps are prudent to protect it. Apple just pretends to be secure and wants you to open up your Exchange server to them...

    Apple betrays the iPhone's business hopes | Mobilize - InfoWorld
    Your also forgetting while Waving security around that we can remote wipe our iPhones via mobile me, which RIM is just adopting themselves for BIS users if its even in place yet. I don't believe you guys honestly know what your talkin about on this site 90% of the time when downing the iPhone.
    03-04-10 11:27 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Your also forgetting while Waving security around that we can remote wipe our iPhones via mobile me, which RIM is just adopting themselves for BIS users if its even in place yet. I don't believe you guys honestly know what your talkin about on this site 90% of the time when downing the iPhone.
    I don't know about BIS, never used it, but Remote Wipe has been available on the BES for years. And you can tell if it happens or not. The Remote Wipe capabilities I've dealt with on Exchange for iPhone doesn't give any confirmation, you just hope. It's not very comforting when you've got an angry attorney staring at you, asking you if its wiped...
    03-04-10 11:56 PM
  16. iPhoneLoyalist's Avatar
    I don't know about BIS, never used it, but Remote Wipe has been available on the BES for years. And you can tell if it happens or not. The Remote Wipe capabilities I've dealt with on Exchange for iPhone doesn't give any confirmation, you just hope. It's not very comforting when you've got an angry attorney staring at you, asking you if its wiped...
    I know BES has it I owned a blackberry until my job finally put iPhones on our exchange network, that's why I only brought up the BIS service. RIM just recently said this capability would be afforded to BIS users but I don't think it has been implemented yet.
    03-05-10 12:02 AM
  17. stuaw11's Avatar
    And again, not EVERYONE with a BB has BES so its a moot niche point to bring up.

    "Some 80 percent of its 4.4 million new subscribers in the third quarter were individual consumers." Referring to Q4 2009, BlackBerry thrives as global customer base widens | TradingMarkets.com

    Now you tell me if BES is the best argument for security needs to make here...

    If only 20% of those new subs were BES, then theyre the VAST minority to consumer/BIS which lacks all of these features. So its nearly a moot point to argue about security and remote wipe and such.

    If you want to argue for a vast minority BES market to BIS/consumer, then the supposed 3GS with 3.1 or above "minority" (which we dont even know if it is) having Exchange encryption would be an equal analogy in terms of each manufacturers total market.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 03-05-10 at 12:20 AM.
    03-05-10 12:14 AM
  18. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    If RIM told you their device was performing an important function and you found out it wasn't, then they told you "Don't worry, it does now, (but only on our newest model)", would you trust them 100% or would you be a little suspicious?
    03-05-10 12:27 AM
  19. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I see no issue at all with the way sales are compared. Regardless how many models one particular device like the Curve has.

    If the iPhone had several different models as well, that doesn't necessarily mean that there would be a lot more iPhone sales. It would merely mean that the total iPhone users would be divvied up between different iPhone models.
    03-05-10 12:32 AM
  20. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    I see no issue at all with the way sales are compared. Regardless how many models one particular device like the Curve has.

    If the iPhone had several different models as well, that doesn't necessarily mean that there would be a lot more iPhone sales. It would merely mean that the total iPhone users would be divvied up between different iPhone models.
    I constantly stay amazed at the number of people that will ignore details in
    order to make "their facts" palatable:

    The handset might've been surpassed in functionality and looks by its Curve 8900 successor, but nothing's got an edge on the BlackBerry Curve 83XX series in smartphone sales. According to NPD, the handset overtook the erstwhile champ iPhone 3G in the category for the first quarter of 2009
    Note: The entire 83xx series is being compared the iPhone 3g. Nothing before
    it, nothing after it.

    One SERIES on several carriers, which at the time included four devices
    (with sales, BOGOs, etc) against ONE device.

    Details matter.
    03-05-10 12:47 AM
  21. kparton's Avatar
    In the uk-iphone is the biggest seller. There has been nothing like it. I am a bb man -but the iphone 3gs is the best thing I have ever used. I hate to admit but it is true. My friends are reps for vfone and they can't get rid of the storm 2. It is embarrassing for rim. Maybe in the US it is different but in the uk ,iphone is the Biggest seller by far. Don't get me wrong I love my bb8900 but the new iphone is extremely good. It was a sad sight to see my phone next to it and get whooped.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Your right about the iPhone being the number one here in the UK, mainly the hysteria cause this, in fact Hysteria went completely stupid when it was released on O2.

    What miffed me off about it more than anything was the 44 p/m they wanted for it, that's ridiculous if you ask me when you can get a Blackberry Bold or Storm for 10 p/m less.

    Any ways, I was a Blackberry user for four years and then all of a sudden we had this smart phone explosion and I wanted to be involved in that, there were loads of new devices to try out and I jumped ship and bought the Iphone...didn't last long before I sold it and bought a Samsung Jet...that didn't last long either...went to a nokia, then sony erricson....

    ...it's been one and a half years and I'm back full circle with a Bold and I'm not leaving blackberry again.

    the iphone, along with A LOT of other Smart phones out there are useless to me and in no way can be compared to the Bold I have now.
    03-05-10 02:58 AM
  22. kparton's Avatar
    I constantly stay amazed at the number of people that will ignore details in
    order to make "their facts" palatable:



    Note: The entire 83xx series is being compared the iPhone 3g. Nothing before
    it, nothing after it.

    One SERIES on several carriers, which at the time included four devices
    (with sales, BOGOs, etc) against ONE device.

    Details matter.
    Doesn't really matter, the iPhone is a novelty item and will be cast away with the likes of the Nintendo Wii, Furbie & Tamagochi very soon.
    03-05-10 03:01 AM
  23. mrmars#CB's Avatar
    Doesn't really matter, the iPhone is a novelty item and will be cast away with the likes of the Nintendo Wii, Furbie & Tamagochi very soon.
    LOL! Not going to happen
    03-05-10 03:06 AM
  24. BatterdStarfish's Avatar
    LOL! Not going to happen
    Totally agree.

    Sometimes i dont know where peoples heads are somedays.

    How can people say iphone will be cast off when the novalty wears off.

    Apples first phone made phone history. Your silly if you dont realise this.

    Nothing will compare to that.

    Simple.
    03-05-10 03:12 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Totally agree.

    Sometimes i dont know where peoples heads are somedays.

    How can people say iphone will be cast off when the novalty wears off.

    Apples first phone made phone history. Your silly if you dont realise this.

    Nothing will compare to that.

    Simple.
    Nothing lasts for ever. Sooner or later it will be consigned to history as well.
    The touch screen revolution is wearing thin as many people are ralising the limitations of it(myself included)
    I thought the touch screen would make everything faster but it's not, I'm missing the qwerty and all the shortcuts.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-05-10 05:08 AM
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