01-03-12 11:42 AM
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  1. avt123's Avatar
    Then I stand corrected, I was unaware the Nexus line did OTA OS updates, and did not require you to back up on a PC, I always thought they only issued OTA patches and you had to go get them they were not pushed
    Yea they were all OTA just like every Android device. The entire OS gets downloaded to the device, and then the device installs and reboots and you are good to go.

    I haven't owned an Android device since my Droid X, but I do not remember there being any backup software for the PC as well. At least not stock. If you root and download a custom recovery, you can backup and restore right from the phone. The info is stored on the SD card.
    01-02-12 02:37 PM
  2. reeneebob's Avatar
    Samsung offers Kies as well - their version on the BBDM for their android devices. That way you can cloud and computer backup your device.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
    01-02-12 02:42 PM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Yea they were all OTA just like every Android device. The entire OS gets downloaded to the device, and then the device installs and reboots and you are good to go.

    I haven't owned an Android device since my Droid X, but I do not remember there being any backup software for the PC as well. At least not stock. If you root and download a custom recovery, you can backup and restore right from the phone. The info is stored on the SD card.
    Well I must say I'm glad I haven't gone and spouted off the PlayBook being first often then. Now for the life of me I don't understand why people don't always have upto date OS's on their Androids... I read about people saying "get this update" I they must be talking mods if OS updates are pushed to every android
    01-02-12 02:44 PM
  4. avt123's Avatar
    Well I must say I'm glad I haven't gone and spouted off the PlayBook being first often then. Now for the life of me I don't understand why people don't always have upto date OS's on their Androids... I read about people saying "get this update" I they must be talking mods if OS updates are pushed to every android
    They probably don't have up to date OS's because the manufacturers take forever to push the updates. Like right now there are still devices that don't have or are still receiving GingerBread updates. ICS is out now. They are a full version behind months and months after the release.

    This is where the skins come into play. It takes longer for the manufacturers to update the device because they need to update their skins as well.

    Rooted users can usually expect updates pretty quick. The dev community works wonders for those who want the latest and greatest and don't want to rely on the carrier/manufacturer for an updates. Otherwise, get a Nexus device and have Google push it directly to you. It happens much quicker than manufacturers/carriers.

    This is why there are so many fragmentation complaints. ICS aims to resolve that but IMO the custom skins need to go. They should be optional downloads and should be able to be turned on/off if the users wants.
    01-02-12 02:50 PM
  5. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    They probably don't have up to date OS's because the manufacturers take forever to push the updates. Like right now there are still devices that don't have or are still receiving GingerBread updates. ICS is out now. They are a full version behind months and months after the release.

    This is where the skins come into play. It takes longer for the manufacturers to update the device because they need to update their skins as well.

    Rooted users can usually expect updates pretty quick. The dev community works wonders for those who want the latest and greatest and don't want to rely on the carrier/manufacturer for an updates. Otherwise, get a Nexus device and have Google push it directly to you. It happens much quicker than manufacturers/carriers.

    This is why there are so many fragmentation complaints. ICS aims to resolve that but IMO the custom skins need to go. They should be optional downloads and should be able to be turned on/off if the users wants.

    I agree, Custom Skins should be handled like OS themes in BBOS4 & 5, have a default theme active, but other themes available, the manufacturers can have their "skin" active at install, but the core OS is still the same and gets updated, users would be warned if their skin is not compatible with the OS update before going, would be the best way to handle it, and truly how I hope RIM handled Themes with QNX Devices, I really hope they don't kill off themes, I am disappointed I don't have any on my OS7 device.
    01-02-12 02:57 PM
  6. avt123's Avatar
    I agree, Custom Skins should be handled like OS themes in BBOS4 & 5, have a default theme active, but other themes available, the manufacturers can have their "skin" active at install, but the core OS is still the same and gets updated, users would be warned if their skin is not compatible with the OS update before going, would be the best way to handle it, and truly how I hope RIM handled Themes with QNX Devices, I really hope they don't kill off themes, I am disappointed I don't have any on my OS7 device.
    Exactly. Some people really love the skins. Myself, I prefer new features, quick patches and everything else that comes faster without them. Most of the skins are memory hogs anyways.

    Hopefully these issues are resolved in the future.
    01-02-12 03:02 PM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    BIS is not attractive to carriers in the US though. It costs them $60 per year per user, plus a support staff for the BIS accounts and why they have dedicated blackberry support departments for Blackberry devices. Google and Apple control the infrastructure so carriers only have to support the end device and make sure data can reach the apple and google servers. If it was good for them they would push Blackberry devices, not Droids and iPhones.

    It would be simple for RIM to change the infrasture with the BB10 rollout, instead of getting a carrier.blackberry.net e-mail you get a us.blackbery.net or something similar account and talk to a RIM owned/controlled BIS. Only support this on BB10 and up devices, and Playbooks. In fact it would be easier for RIM to support because all phones from the US would be setup to work with one BIS domain instead of having to have an OS release for every carrier provisioned to separate BIS per carrier. All the data goes through the NOCs anyway, it would just be RIM in total control and letting carriers run the BIS.
    The problem I see arising in the US is that as the number of BIS subscribers drops, the carriers will stop eating the cost of the BIS fee.

    Once they charge customers an extra $5/month for a BIS plan, the customers will drop BIS and Blackberry. Why pay more for a BIS plan than for a smartphone data plan for iOS, Android, or WindowsPhone7?

    Creating the us.blackberry.net BIS server would create an entirely new set of problems for RIM globally, where BIS servers get hosted, and management for them, How do none BES businesses manage OS7 and OS10 devices when they are fundamentally different? where do the management fees go? as RIM would still need to charge someone management fees for BIS, they can't run it at a loss, they are not a big enough company to do something like that.
    If RIM fails to support BIS, US carriers will eventually charge customers more for it, and then those customers will leave Blackberry.
    01-02-12 03:07 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'm saying RIM Needs to compete on the front end with Apple and Google, They need to have an available ecosystem that will have consumers WANTING BlackBerrys if Consumers want BlackBerry's the Carriers will carry BlackBerry's and Will pay the $5/month, as they just pass the cost off to the consumers anyway, just as other countries do.
    The question is whether or not US consumers would be willing to pay an extra $5/month for BIS, when they can get similar enough services on other platforms without the additional fee.
    01-02-12 03:10 PM
  9. jamesbondOO7's Avatar
    Many friends I know have lost all their data with a I-OS upgrade and/or an I-phone upgrade, even after backing everything up in i-tunes.
    Yes, that was quite interesting. I had so many requests to give contact details of common friends to people who had just gone through an iOS upgrade.....
    01-02-12 03:12 PM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    The question is whether or not US consumers would be willing to pay an extra $5/month for BIS, when they can get similar enough services on other platforms without the additional fee.
    They have been doing it thus far,
    And if the plan is built for the Blackberry with BIS they would see a similar price plan as non bis users for same usage as a BlackBerry user flex plan could start at 50MB/month. Where a iPhone or Android user Flexplan would need to start at the 100-200MB/month, currently this process of buying data to your needs is foriegn to US users, but that will change as you are already starting to see, AND in the case of Carriers looking to pull BIS out as it's own plan ad on RIM retains the power to reduce BIS costs to the carriers to be transfered to a reduced cost to the end user.
    01-02-12 03:33 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    They have been doing it thus far,
    And if the plan is built for the Blackberry with BIS they would see a similar price plan as non bis users for same usage as a BlackBerry user flex plan could start at 50MB/month. Where a iPhone or Android user Flexplan would need to start at the 100-200MB/month, currently this process of buying data to your needs is foriegn to US users, but that will change as you are already starting to see, AND in the case of Carriers looking to pull BIS out as it's own plan ad on RIM retains the power to reduce BIS costs to the carriers to be transfered to a reduced cost to the end user.
    Something like that could work. What would probably fail would be 2 GB/month for $30 for data (iOS, Android, WindowsPhone7), but $30/month plus an additional $5/month for 2 GB BIS.
    01-02-12 03:41 PM
  12. Xterra2's Avatar
    Good post agreed
    Bb updates suck (n)
    01-02-12 03:48 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Something like that could work. What would probably fail would be 2 GB/month for $30 for data (iOS, Android, WindowsPhone7), but $30/month plus an additional $5/month for 2 GB BIS.
    In the event the Carriers are pulling BIS fees out of the usage contract prices, RIM's best solution would be to advertise the data savings, as the majority of users would not need 2GB of data, ( even majority of the other 3 don't) but RIM could focus on that.
    01-02-12 03:49 PM
  14. boldkeyboardholic's Avatar
    its easy apple can do that as they are in the better position as the carrier, rim never was and they do what the carrier demands like no wifi hotspot ot tethering etc. and ios/apple is also not perfect with all tbis restriction, almost censorship.
    01-02-12 07:15 PM
  15. CDM76's Avatar
    After the awesome thread about the US prez having a BB, I decided to see if I could pull out another one of those threads. I love great discussions! Anyway, this time, I decided to focus my attention to Blackberry Software Updates vs. iOS Updates. Its not a comparison but I'm trying to ask everyone here why there is one big difference.

    Let me explain further:

    When you hook up to iTunes using an iOS device, you can update regardless of your carrier. It updates and you don't have bloatware.

    Now, when you hook up a Blackberry device to BBDM (Desktop Manager), it sometimes won't let you update to the latest and greatest because your carrier hasn't "approved" it.

    Why is that so? If I had a choice I would find iOS updates safer in security because its directly from Apple to you.

    Why does Blackberry have to make this system?

    Blackberry OS Makers (RIM) >> Carriers >> Blackberry Desktop Software >> Users >> Installation on BB Devices

    Whereas, iOS goes like this:

    Apple iOS Makers >> iTunes >> Users >> Installation

    To sum that up, its just straight forward. iOS doesnt have app links to crap around with because they don't give it to carrier. We all know iOS isn't as safe as BB OS but I find the way of updating your phone via Apple way better...

    What do you guys think?
    Exactly what I asked last week in another thread ....

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...pdates-682549/


    .
    Last edited by CDM76; 01-02-12 at 10:36 PM.
    01-02-12 10:26 PM
  16. karaya1's Avatar
    Something like that could work. What would probably fail would be 2 GB/month for $30 for data (iOS, Android, WindowsPhone7), but $30/month plus an additional $5/month for 2 GB BIS.
    Your still missing the point of data compression savings to the carrier.
    A BB user uses less than a 1/4th the data of a comparable IOS or Android user, the carrier saves money by having less stress on the infrastructure and use of bandwidth, even if they pay RIM say, $5 a month of the $30 they collected for the data fee.
    It's a bargain for them.

    There is a reason on O2.cz i pay like 400 KC(20 bucks) for unlimited data, NO throttling (called FUP) but no other devices get near that deal. The carrier knows who is sucking the bandwidth. It's not BB users.
    01-03-12 02:02 AM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Your still missing the point of data compression savings to the carrier.
    A BB user uses less than a 1/4th the data of a comparable IOS or Android user, the carrier saves money by having less stress on the infrastructure and use of bandwidth, even if they pay RIM say, $5 a month of the $30 they collected for the data fee.
    It's a bargain for them.

    There is a reason on O2.cz i pay like 400 KC(20 bucks) for unlimited data, NO throttling (called FUP) but no other devices get near that deal. The carrier knows who is sucking the bandwidth. It's not BB users.
    That might be the case in the Czech Republic. However, in the US, the major carriers are building out LTE networks, which handle data much more efficiently than HSPA+ and CDMA.
    01-03-12 11:42 AM
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