1. SteakArmstrong's Avatar
    This is a question regarding all the media hype about iOS and Android using consumer cell phones to relay location information in the news. I don't hear or see anything about rumours of RIM doing the same, I would have guessed that if two (2) fairly large companies like Apple and Google are doing it then they can't be alone... Right? Is this something that RIM is above morally or there some missing piece of hardware that makes this less doing on a BB? Or am I waay off here and RIM has just since learned its lesson? Any comments questions or concerns that could further address this?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 03:27 PM
  2. T
    I believe it's because RIM has integrity that has, for the most part, been held in check by business users' expectations of security. I don't like that it has given in to some countries' demands when it comes to spying on users' communications.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 04:17 PM
  3. Callumlord's Avatar
    I believe it's because RIM has integrity that has, for the most part, been held in check by business users' expectations of security. I don't like that it has given in to some countries' demands when it comes to spying on users' communications.
    Yes I agree but also GPS that is integrated and it was built for business use and not personal but 60-70% use it personally.
    04-26-11 05:50 PM
  4. T
    Hmmm yes. My own gps is a feature from my carrier, Sprint.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 06:02 PM
  5. SteakArmstrong's Avatar
    So really RIM has the capability to do so using the GPS that most modern BB have built into them; RIM just also happens to be reputable enough to not have "shady practices"?
    04-26-11 09:23 PM
  6. syb0rg's Avatar
    Actually Google's is an "opt in service"

    All location sharing on Android is opt-in by the user. We provide users with notice and control over the collection, sharing and use of location in order to provide a better mobile experience on Android devices. Any location data that is sent back to Google location servers is anonymized and is not tied or traceable to a specific user.
    From Google's Blog Site

    And this is from RIM's TOS

    n addition to other personal information described in this Agreement, when You use Your Handheld Product or enable data services or location-based functionality, Handheld Product location information (including, without limitation, GPS information, carrier ID, tower ID and signal strength of visible WiFi or cell towers) may be communicated to RIM Group of Companies. RIM Group of Companies may use such information to provide You with locationbased services, including, without limitation, services facilitating the sharing of Your Handheld Product location information with other persons, including without limitation, Third Party Services used with Your BlackBerry Solution. You should give due consideration before agreeing to have Your personal information disclosed to other persons. We may also use such information to create data in which Your personal information has been aggregated or made anonymous, and may use it to provide location-sensitive advertising.
    So Blackberry's hands aren't spotless either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 10:09 PM
  7. SteakArmstrong's Avatar
    Ha ha ha... well would you look at that!! I wonder why it is then that nobody is riding RIM for their "spying"...
    04-26-11 10:37 PM
  8. T
    Ha ha ha... well would you look at that!! I wonder why it is then that nobody is riding RIM for their "spying"...
    Perhaps RIM isn't spying and merely reserves the right to spy? Has RIM been "busted" yet, other than on that one "jared" company everyone complains about?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 10:41 PM
  9. syb0rg's Avatar
    Perhaps RIM isn't spying and merely reserves the right to spy? Has RIM been "busted" yet, other than on that one "jared" company everyone complains about?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Every smartphone company withholds that right. Not just the big three.
    04-26-11 10:52 PM
  10. syb0rg's Avatar
    Ha ha ha... well would you look at that!! I wonder why it is then that nobody is riding RIM for their "spying"...
    They aren't busting on WinMo, Palm, Nokia, either. Just Apple and Android. Nice try. But all the companies do it. Apple is the only one that doesnt give people an option. Even if the GPS is off it still tracks.

    But i dont have to worry about it my Phone has an app to erase and block all geo logging.
    Last edited by syb0rg; 04-26-11 at 11:26 PM.
    04-26-11 10:55 PM
  11. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    They aren't busting on WinMo, Palm, Nokia, either. Just Apple and Android. Nice try. But all the companies do it. Apple is the only one that doesnt give people an option. Even if the GPS is off it still tracks.

    But i dont have to worry about it my Phone has an app to erase and block all geo logging.
    Windows Mobile (esp Sense devices, and the HD2 is the only device worth buying) gives a huge screen asking you to enable it before it does it.

    Windows Phone 7 does as well, and there is a switch to turn it off. Also, every application that requires location data cannot be installed unless you accept that permission.

    It's borderline impossible to transmit this informaiton without knowingly doing so.

    The issue with iOS is that is keeps a huge log (for months, up to a year I read) of where you're been on your phone. This can be used to incriminate people, among other things... Plus, it's just plain bad if your phone is stolen and someone gets that file...

    The issue with Andorid is that some have found it transmits information to Google several times an hour even when you turn off Location information.

    Also, smartphones are largely useless without Location services. There are way too many apps that depend on them...

    If you don't think RIM is getting this infromation to improve apps like Blackberry maps, Blackberry Traffic, etc. than you are either dumb or extremely naive.

    Too bad some people think things like Free GPS/Navigation/Traffic/etc. apps and services like FourSquare/Loopt/Facebook Places/etc. are free. You pay for them, just in cash. If you don't like it you can get a feature phone, but if these companies are regulated in a way that they are unable to do so, it will set the smartphone ecosystem back about a decade, Lol!
    Last edited by N8ter; 04-27-11 at 09:32 AM.
    04-27-11 09:29 AM
  12. albee 1's Avatar
    Does the Apple Android Os not allow the feature to disable "Location" like BB's. I can disable my location and still use the gps. It just won't know where I am.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-27-11 10:51 AM
  13. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Did you read the thread?

    The issue with iOS is that is keeps a huge log (for months, up to a year I read) of where you're been on your phone. This can be used to incriminate people, among other things... Plus, it's just plain bad if your phone is stolen and someone gets that file...

    The issue with Andorid is that some have found it transmits information to Google several times an hour even when you turn off Location information.
    1. If you disable it, that log is still on the phone... Anyone who has your phone for a few minutes can potentially get to it.

    2. Even if you turn off Location Services, the Android phones have been found to transmit this information to Google...

    IRT your post, cell phones sitll get "GPS" with the GPS disabled. It does this by using Cell Tower Triangulation, as well as using WiFi Hotspots... It is less accurate, but there is no such thing as useless information, you know...
    04-27-11 12:15 PM
  14. syb0rg's Avatar
    Android does allow to turn off GPS collection. Its one of the few things you must approve or decline prior to even firing up the ROM for the first time. If you decline the service or turn it off after staring the ROM it doesn't log. I know this for a fact and will gladly show you.


    I just down loaded an application to show where you've been tracked. I have one spot on my map... just one. I just turned to on to show that if its off, its off. And even the developer tells you if its off your map will be blank


    [sent via Cyanogen powered Android]

    Last edited by syb0rg; 04-27-11 at 04:39 PM.
    04-27-11 02:04 PM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Windows Mobile (esp Sense devices, and the HD2 is the only device worth buying) gives a huge screen asking you to enable it before it does it.

    Windows Phone 7 does as well, and there is a switch to turn it off. Also, every application that requires location data cannot be installed unless you accept that permission.

    It's borderline impossible to transmit this informaiton without knowingly doing so.

    The issue with iOS is that is keeps a huge log (for months, up to a year I read) of where you're been on your phone. This can be used to incriminate people, among other things... Plus, it's just plain bad if your phone is stolen and someone gets that file...

    The issue with Andorid is that some have found it transmits information to Google several times an hour even when you turn off Location information.

    Also, smartphones are largely useless without Location services. There are way too many apps that depend on them...

    If you don't think RIM is getting this infromation to improve apps like Blackberry maps, Blackberry Traffic, etc. than you are either dumb or extremely naive.

    Too bad some people think things like Free GPS/Navigation/Traffic/etc. apps and services like FourSquare/Loopt/Facebook Places/etc. are free. You pay for them, just in cash. If you don't like it you can get a feature phone, but if these companies are regulated in a way that they are unable to do so, it will set the smartphone ecosystem back about a decade, Lol!
    Blackberry gives you 4 options, 1. GPS data source, 2. Location on/off, 3. Location Data on/off(this the data used for location services) 4. Location aiding on/off (this is the AGPS)

    As you can see you don't have to turn gps off, just turn location data off.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-27-11 04:41 PM
  16. avt123's Avatar
    According to Apple, it isn't even logging the location of the device, just the wifi hotspots (which basically is the location of your device because you have to be near the hotspot to use it) and cell towers that you might not even be close too.

    The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it's maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested. Calculating a phone's location using just GPS satellite data can take up to several minutes. iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data to quickly find GPS satellites, and even triangulate its location using just Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data when GPS is not available (such as indoors or in basements). These calculations are performed live on the iPhone using a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data that is generated by tens of millions of iPhones sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple.
    With that being said, there should still be an option to turn it off. Apple says it's a "bug" that even when you turn off location services it still records, but who knows really.

    Hopefully the update gets pushed out sooner than later. VZW iPhone users are still waiting for iOS4.3. Damn fragmentation!
    04-27-11 04:51 PM
  17. SteakArmstrong's Avatar
    I really don't wanna come off like a consiracy theorist, however, it's a lil sketchy that these companies do this and try to keep it under the radar. I really wouldn't mind for the most part sharing my location; I dont feel that it's any skin off my nose. I would just rather know that A) it is happening and 2) what the information is actually being used for.
    04-27-11 06:11 PM
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