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  1. Jason Page's Avatar
    We often find ourselves in a confine, bind or catch 22 when it means maintaining a certain portal of communication that comes with a compromise, namely consenting to data breaching and leaching from our phones.

    Often users rather not read the lengthy usage agreements and if of anything we find ourselves obligated to use these apps without knowledge of alternatives that either we use them in duress or in ignorance and find that our consumption of enormous amount of data with our *unlimited* plans with our carriers is somehow normal.

    What are your thoughts when it comes to consent? Is our consent to this a legitimate consent or one out of ignorance or duress?

    Could BlackBerry offer a gateway *drug* to a sort of freedom from these binds of ignorance and duress?
    Last edited by Jason Page; 02-13-19 at 01:04 PM. Reason: It is Duress not Distress.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-13-19 11:14 AM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    What are your thoughts when it comes to consent? Is our consent to this a legitimate consent or one out of ignorance or distress?
    It's a combination of all of those things. People are responsible for their own actions, if they choose not to read through the stuff, it's on them. If they read through it and disagree with the terms and opt out, it's on them. If people are willfully ignorant, it's on them. Everyone has the option to NOT use the services, it might not be the best option, but it's still an option.

    These days, there's a responsibility on those offering the services to inform and a responsibility on users to inform themselves. Some days it feels as though no one cares about security / privacy until something happens to them, then all of a sudden they care.. for 10 mins.. until the next thing comes along.

    BlackBerry has been pushing the security and privacy messaging for years, and arguably it held them back because people simply didn't care enough. We're only really now starting to edge into more awareness where BlackBerry hardware of old would be appreciated. They offered the gateway drug in a way, and were largely ignored, so they had to move onto the next level, and take their offerings to people who understand security / privacy at the core.
    02-13-19 12:15 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Could BlackBerry offer a gateway *drug* to a sort of freedom from these binds of ignorance and duress?
    I'm not sure about the form you're imagining, but know that to date, every "high security/high privacy" smartphone that has ever hit the market has failed. Why? Because security and privacy means additional up-front costs (turns out it costs a lot of money to develop more secure/more private software), a lot of limitations, and a good amount of additional inconvenience. It turns out that very, very few people are willing to make those trade-offs, and smartphones are incredibly complex devices that are very expensive to design and develop and are only profitable if they're sold in high volumes, or if they're sold at low volumes for very high prices. Neither of those sales models has proven successful so far.

    Consider also that BB Ltd. is out of the smartphone business - out of the consumer business as a whole, in fact - and has been strictly an enterprise software solutions company for the last several years.

    BB Mobile (a division of TCL) is the primary licensee of BB-branded phones, and TCL's goal is to make profits.

    Several times a week for the last 5+ years, people have floated ideas of BB making new devices or making some super privacy/security device, or supposing that a major breach would cause enterprises to come flocking back to BB, but none of those things have happened because they all ignore the business realities.

    The people that want a super-secure, super-private device, and are willing to pay for it and put up with the hassles and limits involved, number in the hundreds or thousands. Until they number in the millions, manufacturers aren't going to be interested. They've seen companies try the same thing and lose hundreds of millions of dollars, and there is little reason to follow them down that same path, when those investors can buy stock in Apple or Google or Amazon or just buy a vacation home and a jet to take them there.
    john_v likes this.
    02-13-19 03:35 PM
  4. Jason Page's Avatar
    I was thinking a software layer by BB to put user back in control how apps access data how and when. An elegant " BBwall "

    Make it free to install on BB phones.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-13-19 05:25 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So, tens of millions of additional development annually on an ongoing basis, but it should be free? Lol.

    That's not exactly in line with business reality, is it?
    john_v likes this.
    02-14-19 03:28 AM
  6. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I'm not sure about the form you're imagining, but know that to date, every "high security/high privacy" smartphone that has ever hit the market has failed. Why? Because security and privacy means additional up-front costs (turns out it costs a lot of money to develop more secure/more private software), a lot of limitations, and a good amount of additional inconvenience. It turns out that very, very few people are willing to make those trade-offs, and smartphones are incredibly complex devices that are very expensive to design and develop and are only profitable if they're sold in high volumes, or if they're sold at low volumes for very high prices. Neither of those sales models has proven successful so far.

    Consider also that BB Ltd. is out of the smartphone business - out of the consumer business as a whole, in fact - and has been strictly an enterprise software solutions company for the last several years.

    BB Mobile (a division of TCL) is the primary licensee of BB-branded phones, and TCL's goal is to make profits.

    Several times a week for the last 5+ years, people have floated ideas of BB making new devices or making some super privacy/security device, or supposing that a major breach would cause enterprises to come flocking back to BB, but none of those things have happened because they all ignore the business realities.

    The people that want a super-secure, super-private device, and are willing to pay for it and put up with the hassles and limits involved, number in the hundreds or thousands. Until they number in the millions, manufacturers aren't going to be interested. They've seen companies try the same thing and lose hundreds of millions of dollars, and there is little reason to follow them down that same path, when those investors can buy stock in Apple or Google or Amazon or just buy a vacation home and a jet to take them there.
    ...And once upon a time we all lived in grass huts or sod-roofed houses, okay maybe even teepees with no locks on the doors.....because no one was willing to pay for locks, because they weren't concerned about their salted fish/meats being stolen.....well that is until the village got out of hand and became a city. Then they got brick houses and Blackberry hardened doors.
    02-14-19 05:05 AM
  7. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I was thinking a software layer by BB to put user back in control how apps access data how and when. An elegant " BBwall "

    Make it free to install on BB phones.
    BBWall? MAGA? Make Android Great Again?....or for the first time? So of course it wouldn't be free...but maybe the raping and pillaging of your data might be reigned in? amd not letting all those apps hang out in your living room all the time might be a stress reducer? I dunno where would all the AI research using us a guinea pigs, or worse get their test subjects?.....wait a minute trick question....that just means upgrading bb10. Good one.
    02-14-19 05:16 AM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    ...And once upon a time we all lived in grass huts or sod-roofed houses, okay maybe even teepees with no locks on the doors.....because no one was willing to pay for locks, because they weren't concerned about their salted fish/meats being stolen.....well that is until the village got out of hand and became a city. Then they got brick houses and Blackberry hardened doors.
    BB's heyday has come and gone. Millions of people who formerly had BB devices now carry something else, and have no intention of going back. That's why your analogy is flawed - people have had what you are suggesting is a "brick house" with a single, narrow entrance/exit and no windows - and they've moved out of them - by choice - to other accommodations. They value easy access and sunlight over the bricked-in security - not to mention the new houses have all the modern amenities and cost much less.

    You may disagree with their choices, but all that means is that you are an outlier - an exception - but the mainstream user won't be embracing security over convenience and capability any time soon. Don't delude yourself about that.
    john_v likes this.
    02-14-19 03:12 PM
  9. john_v's Avatar
    "Duress"..."rape"..."pillage"....seems a bit over the top for a phone forum. No one is holding a gun to your head, or holding your loved ones hostage, in order to make you use a phone. That's duress.

    Here's what you can do - turn the dumb thing off, pop the sim card out, and go for a walk. Enjoy the birds singing. Smile and interact with those around you. It's not only free, it's "duress free".
    Thud Hardsmack, Bla1ze and conite like this.
    02-15-19 06:22 AM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    "Duress"..."rape"..."pillage"....seems a bit over the top for a phone forum. No one is holding a gun to your head, or holding your loved ones hostage, in order to make you use a phone. That's duress.

    Here's what you can do - turn the dumb thing off, pop the sim card out, and go for a walk. Enjoy the birds singing. Smile and interact with those around you. It's not only free, it's "duress free".
    It's not pillaging your personal life? Sure give it a nicer sounding name...just let me know what innocuous name the industry can conjure up. Do you even know what is being done with that so-called anonymous aggregated data about you? I don't, so I like to err on the side of caution. Yes you need to use the internet and a smartphone....no choice, to interact effectively in the current economy especially if you work in the technological fields, and no control of what is being gleaned about you. I wouldn't want to rent an apartment where the landlord has a spycam on you 24-7 (in fact it is a criminal act). The hallway? For security? Okay maybe there. Hey the data slurping is "virtually" the same thing.
    Can't go for a walk the cameras, rfid detectors are all around (lol)...you must have missed the CBS series person-of-interest....or maybe "smart cities". Who controls the data? What are they using it for? Disclosure? Pfffft.
    02-16-19 02:57 AM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    ...then again...hey sweetheart have a few drinks on me (free apps)....and....oh you feeling a bit woozy?...baby its cold outside. :-)
    02-16-19 05:02 AM
  12. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB's heyday has come and gone. Millions of people who formerly had BB devices now carry something else, and have no intention of going back. That's why your analogy is flawed - people have had what you are suggesting is a "brick house" with a single, narrow entrance/exit and no windows - and they've moved out of them - by choice - to other accommodations. They value easy access and sunlight over the bricked-in security - not to mention the new houses have all the modern amenities and cost much less.

    You may disagree with their choices, but all that means is that you are an outlier - an exception - but the mainstream user won't be embracing security over convenience and capability any time soon. Don't delude yourself about that.
    You mean they moved out of single family dwellings in the sprawled burbs...to gated communities and condos? Hmm....they seem to have even more security then the baby boomer suburban expansion offered.....but not much communal living going on these days....due of course, to the high-risks in doing so, grant it, they pay more to live in communities deemed to be low-risk safe neighborhoods, and most hang curtains or blinds to enhance their privacy when wanted, if they have neighbours about.
    02-16-19 05:21 AM
  13. john_v's Avatar
    It's not pillaging your personal life? Sure give it a nicer sounding name...just let me know what innocuous name the industry can conjure up. Do you even know what is being done with that so-called anonymous aggregated data about you? I don't, so I like to err on the side of caution. Yes you need to use the internet and a smartphone....no choice, to interact effectively in the current economy especially if you work in the technological fields, and no control of what is being gleaned about you. I wouldn't want to rent an apartment where the landlord has a spycam on you 24-7 (in fact it is a criminal act). The hallway? For security? Okay maybe there. Hey the data slurping is "virtually" the same thing.
    Can't go for a walk the cameras, rfid detectors are all around (lol)...you must have missed the CBS series person-of-interest....or maybe "smart cities". Who controls the data? What are they using it for? Disclosure? Pfffft.
    I'm sure survivors of real rape and genocide will be glad to know you equate their experiences with your discomfort with an app.
    02-16-19 09:35 AM

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