I'm sad for RIM... the hate, the credibility, the confidence, the paranoia

The Q2 earnings reaction was so harsh... down 20% or so. Analysts simply hate RIM despite the fact that they continue to make lots of money (albeit, not as much as they used to).

I think there have been a lot of empty promises from Jim and Mike, like the native email, and Android player coming in summer for the Playbook (even Angry Birds was announced to come in the summer and never did). They only shipped 700,000 units since release – it’s not surprising since it’s an incomplete product! It's almost as if they shipped a car with spare tires on (bridge) instead of the real regular straight tires (full PIM). the SDK isn't even out yet either!?? like c'mon...

It's definitely not summer in Canada now. What's going on with RIM's software team? Does the team not clock the extra hours to just get it done?

The announcement that Tablet v2.0 will come AFTER devcon is encouraging, but they need to get it out and get re-reviewed, and released Black Friday at the LATEST. Maybe we will find LTE on it as well, which would be a boost as well.

There's this guy Andy Grove from Intel, he wrote a book called Only the Paranoid Survive. Is RIM even paranoid at all? They certainly don't sound it. But Analysts have drank the Haterade, and certainly investors have as well by evidenced by the massive short selling of the stock. It’s as if there is no sense of urgency at RIM. Perhaps they just need to lower shareholder/analyst expectations and just focus on blowing them out of the water if they want to continue selling all their Curves.

iPhone and Android are just double teaming RIM so hard right now, it's kind of depressing. The Dev's don't seem to care about RIM at all either, there's still no "app for that" yet. Iphone 5 lurking around the corner too, with iMessenger which looks to be a legit competitor to BBM, it’s a scary thought.

I know RIM has moved to make their products on par with the competition with Browser, and UI slickness/smoothness, but they are still way behind in the breadth of apps and being able to provide “an app for that” (which I don't particularly care for) – but consumers don’t even care that they will likely use 15 or less apps in the lifetime of their phone and are seduced by the 400,000 out there. And dev’s don’t even seem to care that RIM has 70M subscribers worldwide either – why? It's an important metric that potential customers now consider when making a smartphone purchase. The Android emulator could save them, but so far, it doesn't look like it can come soon enough.

RIM is also slowly losing its competitive advantages that they’ve had for so long: Security, BBM, battery life too...

For people who are even thinking about upgrading to a smartphone, BB’s aren’t even on their consideration set anymore! This is so depressing.


OK enough crying for me...I can only hope this is temporary, but it's been 4 years since iPhone, and RIM is only starting to catch up (kind of)... and then Android came out of nowhere.... what happened?!

Good thing I don't own stock. Not sure now's a good time to get in either, because I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. it's too big of a bet that QNX will be the saviour.

Again this should be a wake up call for RIM. Even though they are in the process of launching new devices they need to keep up with the other platforms with speed,applications,browser etc to keep the market happy.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by bj22hm

And dev�s don�t even seem to care that RIM has 70M subscribers worldwide either � why? It's an important metric that potential customers now consider when making a smartphone purchase. The Android emulator could save them, but so far, it doesn't look like it can come soon enough.

Those 70M subscribers are on a fragmented and soon to be obsolete platform. I large subset of those subscribers are on corporate accounts and may not be able to install or use the apps developers do write.

I'd really hate to be a software developer at RIM right now. I've worked at software companies where the shareholders call the shots. Shareholders, by nature, don't know anything; they only know what's gaining/losing them money and they want results YESTERDAY. So I'm guessing Mike and Jim are probably screaming at the poor souls tasked with getting Playbook OS 2.0 and QNX phones out the door to get it done ASAP. The longer we sit here dissatisfied with an unpolished product, the sooner we'll see Mike and Jim sweat. Shareholders are calling for their heads, but maybe it's my loyalty to RIM products that's keeping me patient through all of this, but I do believe that the RIMpire will definitely strike back... But not until after DevCon. And hopefully those devs killing themselves to get us our much needed Playbook update/upgrade will go back to normal lives. I can wait. It's the start of the videogame season and I'll be getting much more worked up from some 12 year old kid saying how much he enjoys my mother after I destroy him in Gears of War 3, Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3.. than I am about not having Angry Birds and native email support that I don't need on my Playbook. And I figured out how to rip my blu-rays to my Playbook yesterday so that's going to keep me busy for a while. Have patience, addicts. Our time is coming.

Originally Posted by ADGrant

Those 70M subscribers are on a fragmented and soon to be obsolete platform. I large subset of those subscribers are on corporate accounts and may not be able to install or use the apps developers do write.

that's a good response. You're right. it's hard to develop an app when there are 5 different screen types/resolutions, with different performance levels as well. like old BB's (pre OS5), and newer BB's, they're all over the place.

This is part of the thing that screws me up. Somehow, strategically, they didn't think to make a unified platform across older and newer devices. Now it's just a complete disaster.

Good incentive for devs not to write anything for BB's. plus a lot of BB's are underpowered to do much more than text messaging/emails. even my 9700 is starting to lag by just doing email and messengering/texting.

You are "sad" for a corporation?? Really? That seriously makes no sense.

Originally Posted by SwitchBeach

You are "sad" for a corporation?? Really? That seriously makes no sense.

Hey, as an old Commodore Amiga fan, I know where he's coming from.

Regarding the apps, all of this is really RIMs own fault, and the question is whether there is enough time to fix it.

Like all the devices being so different. They should have thought about unifying the APIs years ago. Android devices are just as widely specced as Blackberries, yet its not a big problem for that platform because Google took steps to prevent it.

Or relations with developers in general. For years RIM ignored them, put out second rate tools, and as a result, apps for Blackberries were vastly overpriced and inferior. (They still seem expensive compared to other platforms, but I have to say that it seems a little better these days, than when I used to have a BB.)

Look at what Microsoft did in contrast. They worked on their relations with devs for years, and made first rate tools available for their new platform, when they were getting ready to launch WP7.
AND on top of that, they funded development of popular apps for WP7 even before the first phones were out. And in just a year, WP7 has surpassed Blackberry App World in just a year, both in quantity as well as in quality. And thats on a platform that has something like 10% of Blackberry users.

And now comes QNX thats likely to make the situation even worse. Not only will the Platform get even further fragmented, you also have the App player that'll siphon off developers to Android.

RIM should have tools out for the devs NOW if they want anything developed for Q2 next year, but they haven't even gotten the Playbook NDK out yet.

It's like one arm of the company doesn't have a clue about what the other one does, and it'll be the end of RIM if they don't pull themselves together. Market share is most likely already in the single digits, and that's pretty darn close to how small RIM can be, to continue as a viable platform.

Originally Posted by bj22hm

that's a good response. You're right. it's hard to develop an app when there are 5 different screen types/resolutions, with different performance levels as well. like old BB's (pre OS5), and newer BB's, they're all over the place.

This is part of the thing that screws me up. Somehow, strategically, they didn't think to make a unified platform across older and newer devices. Now it's just a complete disaster.

Good incentive for devs not to write anything for BB's. plus a lot of BB's are underpowered to do much more than text messaging/emails. even my 9700 is starting to lag by just doing email and messengering/texting.

RIM has diluted themselves over across too many phones. This is an issue brought up sometime ago and I was bummed to see them bring out all these new phones with different specs.

I can see why Devs do not like working with the BB lineup. To many and too much hassle.

Tim

Maybe the co-CEOs are in denial as well, as much as some BB fans here are. Couple of months ago I read of posts like cwong15's who said OS7 brought industry-leading features which Android or Apple lacked etc. and how great it is blahblah...

Fast forward to post-9900 launch, we're not seeing a phenomenal take-up rate of the OS7 devices, and developers are not scrambling to write apps for BBs. Within a couple of months of rolling out the absolutely latest top-end BB phones, we already hear from the horses' mouths that QNX phones are coming in early 2012. Yet QNX has been on the Playbook for some time already and the shipping numbers are dismal, despite some people claiming that they are selling like hotcakes in places like Australia. QNX may be a robust OS, but without the apps and top support from RIM it's not going to make a dent in the market.

As long as RIM doesn't think that they're in trouble, we're going to see disappointment again very soon.

Don't worry, RIM is fine.

They have 3 billion in cash, oh wait...

It's hilarious to me that this tidbit was used by countless blind fanboys to justify a resilient company. Just crazy.

Their saving grace is QNX, but their guidance and estimates of the playbook shipped volume was so off, there is nothing left here.

RIM isn't out of business, blackberries are still being sold, carriers aren't discontinuing them either, BIS/BES/BESx isn't discontinued and works still. RIM is doing fine despite all this crappola.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by trsbbs

RIM has diluted themselves over across too many phones. This is an issue brought up sometime ago and I was bummed to see them bring out all these new phones with different specs.

I can see why Devs do not like working with the BB lineup. To many and too much hassle.

Tim

RIM needs to fix this or find a way to make this more focused if that makes any sense. At the same time it's like a double-edged sword. All the different models allow RIM to sell in other countries and be successful which is giving them a good chunk of revenue all at the lower end. But with all these models, it's hard to develop for so many phones with different specs. Going forward, RIM needs to find a way to trim down their lineup. I say have three models: a full touch phone to go against Android/iOS (let's face it, no keyboard phone is going to compete no matter how good the specs), the Bold to satisfy the core consumers and a Curve - no more flips, no more Pearls. If they do this, I think RIM's lineup can be more focused. As of right now, there's way too many models and it's overwhelming sometimes.

Rim will be fine. They make solid devices. I know that, you know that. Who cares about a trillion fart apps. Most of iphone and android apps are rubbish and pointless. I use like 7 apps. Which are on all 3 platforms.

Blackberry is a solid name.
Blackberry is a solid brand.
Blackberry has a solid future.
Rim will be fine.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Thank goodness that RIM is not a Japanese company. The employee suicide rate would be sooooo high right now... :D

Originally Posted by gymwarner

Rim will be fine. They make solid devices. I know that, you know that. Who cares about a trillion fart apps. Most of iphone and android apps are rubbish and pointless. I use like 7 apps. Which are on all 3 platforms.

Blackberry is a solid name.
Blackberry is a solid brand.
Blackberry has a solid future.
Rim will be fine.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You don't represent all the consumers in the world. Most people who buy smartphones want apps. They don't have any of that with the BlackBerry. Just because you don't care about applications the other 10 people in the phone store want applications and they will either get an android or an iphone.

As for solid future where do you see this? RIM sold less units than they anticipated to sell this quarter. They lowered their forecasts for the end of the year. If you think that represents a solid future what represents a disappointing future?

I love the Blackberry but theres a lot of problems that are not being fixed. Failure to fix these problems are the reason why people are abandoning the BlackBerry.

Originally Posted by gymwarner

Who cares about a trillion fart apps.

Funny. It's 2011 and people are stilling throwing around this ridiculous statement.

People want apps. RIM at first said they aren't needed when you have the "full web". Well guess what? That is BS and consumers have proven they want apps. Why do you think the Android player is going to be standard on QNX?

Originally Posted by xBlackBerry

I love the Blackberry but theres a lot of problems that are not being fixed. Failure to fix these problems are the reason why people are abandoning the BlackBerry.

Agreed. It's do or die time for RIM.

It will be interesting to see if RIM will listen to the advice/criticism/feedback(depends on who's giving it) and make sure that the 1st QNX device(s) that hit the marketplace are ready for primetime next year(?). :cool:

Originally Posted by waccotobacco

Don't worry, RIM is fine.

They have 3 billion in cash, oh wait...

It's hilarious to me that this tidbit was used by countless blind fanboys to justify a resilient company. Just crazy.

Funny, I can remember fanboys of another company making the same argument. When was it, back around '97? The company on the skids at the time was Apple, and we all know how that turned out, huh? The difference between Apple in '97 and RIM now? Apple was actually losing money.

Originally Posted by gymwarner

Rim will be fine. They make solid devices. I know that, you know that. Who cares about a trillion fart apps. Most of iphone and android apps are rubbish and pointless. I use like 7 apps. Which are on all 3 platforms.

Blackberry is a solid name.
Blackberry is a solid brand.
Blackberry has a solid future.
Rim will be fine.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Your argument is completely invalidated by the moves RIM has made. Everything they have been doing is to catch-up in the apps game, which leads me to believe that they finally are convinced that apps DO matter.

Originally Posted by murnende

Funny, I can remember fanboys of another company making the same argument. When was it, back around '97? The company on the skids at the time was Apple, and we all know how that turned out, huh? The difference between Apple in '97 and RIM now? Apple was actually losing money.

In 1997, Apple wasn't making ipods, ipads, and iphones. Their sole business model was desktops.

What the heck is RIM doing to change their business model? The Playbook? That thing is a flop.

Don't let the fact that RIM is a Canadian company cloud your reasoning.

I believe we will all wake up one morning in the very near furture to the fact that RIM has been acquired. Question is by whom?

There's an observation doing the rounds on various blogs.

Apple attacks Google in court, and RIM in the press.

Everyone has an axe to grind. When you read negative stuff chances are someone somewhere is benefiting from the negativity.

BGR for example has Steve Wozniak as an "advisor" to its corporate parent. Chances are he's also a share holder.

So can you believe anything you read in BGR. Sure. Just make sure to use a healthy dose of scepticism. It's interesting that while BGR has the occasional positive thing to say about RIM, the overwhelming weight of comment is negative. Even when RIM releases decent products. Criticism is easy.

Do apps matter? Not really. Sure apps are great. But is there really that much you can do on an iPhone that you can't do on a BlackBerry other than a few games? Most other apps are really just glorified web pages anyway.

And does the iPhone really compare with BlackBerry when it comes to phone and messaging apps? Not in my experience.

So each device has positives and negatives. The trick is in the marketing. Sadly for RIM Apple are among the worlds best marketers.

Originally Posted by murnende

Funny, I can remember fanboys of another company making the same argument. When was it, back around '97? The company on the skids at the time was Apple, and we all know how that turned out, huh? The difference between Apple in '97 and RIM now? Apple was actually losing money.

Unfortunately, as posted by someone else in another forum, for every one company that does this, hundreds go bankrupt. A complete company turn around isn't as easy as pointing out that another company did that 15 years ago. It takes drastic changes, in leadership management and product line, to accomplish. I haven't seen either from RIM thus far.