11-06-17 08:37 PM
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  1. AmritD's Avatar
    Nokia(HMD Global) has really managed to make a comeback selling over a million units of their Android devices. They didn't have the economies of scale of a Samsung or Apple. No carrier relationships.
    Just had a brand name which people were really nostalgic about! People are equally if not more nostalgic about their BlackBerrys! Damn Nokia didn't even have a standout or USP feature like a PKB or the security legacy of BlackBerry!
    Where is BlackBerry Mobile going wrong that Nokia managed to get right?
    Not a rant, just want to know the reasons.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    11-04-17 09:58 PM
  2. madh263362's Avatar
    Right time , right price, right marketing
    11-04-17 10:03 PM
  3. SuperDarkr's Avatar
    Nokia(HMD Global) has really managed to make a comeback selling over a million units of their Android devices. They didn't have the economies of scale of a Samsung or Apple. No carrier relationships.
    Just had a brand name which people were really nostalgic about! People are equally if not more nostalgic about their BlackBerrys! Damn Nokia didn't even have a standout or USP feature like a PKB or the security legacy of BlackBerry!
    Where is BlackBerry Mobile going wrong that Nokia managed to get right?
    Not a rant, just want to know the reasons.

    Posted via CB10
    Nokia had economics of scale always had they have manufacturing facilities in Vietnam and many parts of Asia.
    Nokia could produce millions of phones unlike blackberry who never got upto that scale
    Nokia is more diversified then blackberry
    They have tvs , monitors and network technologies stuff even cameras that blackberry never touched
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

    Blackberry dreams it could be big as Nokia or motorola or any other mobile company

    Even Lenovo does a great job as a new entrant with the new moto z phones

    Blackberry mobile aka tcl would have to add more devices to fund projects if you mean blackberry ltd
    They are out of the business
    11-04-17 10:24 PM
  4. AmritD's Avatar
    Nokia had economics of scale always had they have manufacturing facilities in Vietnam and many parts of Asia.
    Nokia could produce millions of phones unlike blackberry who never got upto that scale
    Nokia is more diversified then blackberry
    They have tvs , monitors and network technologies stuff even cameras that blackberry never touched
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

    Blackberry dreams it could be big as Nokia or motorola or any other mobile company

    Even Lenovo does a great job as a new entrant with the new moto z phones

    Blackberry mobile aka tcl would have to add more devices to fund projects if you mean blackberry ltd
    They are out of the business
    I believe you are talking about THE nokia.
    The Nokia phones are produced under a license bought by HMD global. A start up consisting of mostly former Nokia employees.

    Posted via CB10
    Sir Face notFone likes this.
    11-04-17 10:49 PM
  5. Invictus0's Avatar
    I think it helps that Nokia/HMD have a huge consumer facing presence while BlackBerry/BBMobile has primarily targeted enterprise. Nokia devices are also available at all pricepoints and tiers (flagship to budget) whereas BlackBerry devices are targeting midtier and that too across three separate licensees and strategies.

    The Nokia phones are produced under a license bought by HMD global. A start up consisting of mostly former Nokia employees.
    It's amazing how much of the former Nokia devices team HMD have reunited, from the executive level down to their factory employees. I wouldn't doubt that's played a part in their success so far.
    11-04-17 11:25 PM
  6. AmritD's Avatar
    I think it helps that Nokia/HMD have a huge consumer facing presence while BlackBerry/BBMobile has primarily targeted enterprise. Nokia devices are also available at all pricepoints and tiers (flagship to budget) whereas BlackBerry devices are targeting midtier and that too across three separate licensees and strategies.



    It's amazing how much of the former Nokia devices team HMD have reunited, from the executive level down to their factory employees. I wouldn't doubt that's played a part in their success so far.
    But that's the flaw in the plan? Targeting only Enterprises? Sure an enterprise focus is what will set them apart. But having targeting just the enterprise. Not so sure. Didn't work for BB10. Let's see how it goes for BBMOBILE. I hope I am proved wrong but eventually with BYOD, the enterprises are essentially buying what the consumers want IMO.

    Posted via CB10
    11-04-17 11:50 PM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    This whole targeting enterprise argument is no longer valid. It's only used to excuse poor sales by people in here. Enterprise and consumer have become the same thing today. They use all sorts of devices along with Samsung and Apple. It's a weak argument to justify lack of marketing in my opinion. They don't market so it's because "their target is enterprise" . Okay if that's the case, how has it gone? did they sell boat loads to so called enterprise customers?
    11-05-17 12:12 AM
  8. Invictus0's Avatar
    But that's the flaw in the plan? Targeting only Enterprises? Sure an enterprise focus is what will set them apart. But having targeting just the enterprise. Not so sure. Didn't work for BB10. Let's see how it goes for BBMOBILE. I hope I am proved wrong but eventually with BYOD, the enterprises are essentially buying what the consumers want IMO.

    Posted via CB10
    I think they should definitely try a consumer push with affordable BB Android devices, BlackBerry devices were popular among regular consumers in many markets so they have brand recognition and now they don't have to worry about apps, accessories, etc.

    This whole targeting enterprise argument is no longer valid. It's only used to excuse poor sales by people in here. Enterprise and consumer have become the same thing today. They use all sorts of devices along with Samsung and Apple. It's a weak argument to justify lack of marketing in my opinion. They don't market so it's because "their target is enterprise" . Okay if that's the case, how has it gone? did they sell boat loads to so called enterprise customers?
    Their website is literally full of people dressed in business attire with taglines about productivity and getting work done, doesn't get more enterprise than that. Regular customers can still buy BlackBerry devices but it's obvious their marketing is targeting enterprise and prosumer users.

    BlackBerry® KEYone | United States - Official Website
    11-05-17 12:44 AM
  9. zer0ten's Avatar
    And Nokia is actually offering flagship level devices. BlackBerry really needs to offer something on the higher end of specs.
    11-05-17 01:02 AM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    Damn Nokia didn't even have a standout or USP feature like a PKB or the security legacy of BlackBerry!
    Which means they have more freedom in what phones to build. Outside of regulated enterprise and here security and the PKB are non-starters.
    11-05-17 01:07 AM
  11. AmritD's Avatar
    Which means they have more freedom in what phones to build. Outside of regulated enterprise and here security and the PKB are non-starters.
    I wouldn't quite say that PKB and security are absolute non starters outside of regulated enterprises and here.
    It's a non starter at the price which BlackBerry/BlackBerry mobile charges.
    No/very few consumer can justify the price they are charging for the specs of a $200-250 phone just for the PKB and the security.
    Most consumers would very happily pay a $100-150 premium for the PKB, security and the Brand.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-17 01:22 AM
  12. AmritD's Avatar
    This whole targeting enterprise argument is no longer valid. It's only used to excuse poor sales by people in here. Enterprise and consumer have become the same thing today. They use all sorts of devices along with Samsung and Apple. It's a weak argument to justify lack of marketing in my opinion. They don't market so it's because "their target is enterprise" . Okay if that's the case, how has it gone? did they sell boat loads to so called enterprise customers?
    Exactly! If the whole enterprise niche was actually profitable, BB10 wouldn't have tanked. Damn it tanked even with quite a serious consumer push.
    BlackBerry Mobile needs to push out a competitive phone with an acceptable premium.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-17 01:25 AM
  13. AmritD's Avatar
    I think they should definitely try a consumer push with affordable BB Android devices, BlackBerry devices were popular among regular consumers in many markets so they have brand recognition and now they don't have to worry about apps, accessories, etc.
    Exactly, they should push towards the consumers as well. Not be completely consumer focused, but push slowly and steadily.


    Posted via CB10
    11-05-17 01:27 AM
  14. valer466's Avatar
    If you've lived in India you know why Nokia can and why BlackBerry can't. Nokia was number 1 until they decided not to go Android. Then Samsung took over.

    However BlackBerry was a different story in India and pretty much the same across the world.

    BlackBerry messenger to save international sms costs- not marketed by BlackBerry but adopted by consumer folks who made it famous for about 3 years until 2012 when WhatsApp made a splash without a charge to end user and killed BBM.

    BIS for instant push email on mobile was purely used by business and government & this was also adopted by consumers who thought it's cool and bought bb devices and bis plans.

    Google and apple killed this with their email on mobile even if it wasn't push email.

    So expecting BlackBerry to be a reasonable success in consumer world is never going to happen because they never thought of themselves as a consumer focused brand.

    Nokia will take at least 5 years more to be number 2 in the Indian market because Samsung is a very well established player in India. Starters who depended on cheap Chinese phones have all realised that those phones maybe cheap but don't last long & Android by default is a Samsung device in the Indian market and Globally as well.
    Qorax and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    11-05-17 01:43 AM
  15. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    If you've lived in India you know why Nokia can and why BlackBerry can't. Nokia was number 1 until they decided not to go Android. Then Samsung took over.

    However BlackBerry was a different story in India and pretty much the same across the world.

    BlackBerry messenger to save international sms costs- not marketed by BlackBerry but adopted by consumer folks who made it famous for about 3 years until 2012 when WhatsApp made a splash without a charge to end user and killed BBM.

    BIS for instant push email on mobile was purely used by business and government & this was also adopted by consumers who thought it's cool and bought bb devices and bis plans.

    Google and apple killed this with their email on mobile even if it wasn't push email.

    So expecting BlackBerry to be a reasonable success in consumer world is never going to happen because they never thought of themselves as a consumer focused brand.

    Nokia will take at least 5 years more to be number 2 in the Indian market because Samsung is a very well established player in India. Starters who depended on cheap Chinese phones have all realised that those phones maybe cheap but don't last long & Android by default is a Samsung device in the Indian market and Globally as well.
    Nokia was number 1 until they went to Windows Phone, not Android.

    Only now did they go full on Android.
    11-05-17 02:13 AM
  16. johnsliderbb's Avatar
    Nokia USP to me always was: Doesnt break, good battery.

    Whether fact or just perception, it makes that I have a positive attitude towards the new HMD Nokia phones without even holding one.

    Guess I'm not the only one with this upfront positive feeling.

    Posted via CB10
    Bbnivende likes this.
    11-05-17 03:01 AM
  17. valer466's Avatar
    Nokia was number 1 until they went to Windows Phone, not Android.

    Only now did they go full on Android.
    Nokia never went Windows. MS bought their devices division and brand name and released Windows phones using the Nokia name.
    11-05-17 08:05 AM
  18. Qorax's Avatar
    Nokia was number 1 until they went to Windows Phone, not Android.

    Only now did they go full on Android.
    Nokia's Windows was a non-starter. They were already dead by then*. They tried to breathe their last gasp with Windows, but failed.

    Their last OS was Meego Harmattan (a splendidly done platform like the BB10) - but was abandoned after launch due to 'abnormal' and ill-conceived decisions by their top brass. A very similar approach as we can see at Blackberry. Which is why, we can assume that the same path is laid forward for Blackberry as well.

    *By not being able to compete with the 'smartness' of Samsung and Apple.
    11-05-17 08:05 AM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    A million devices split up amongst several models does not really sound like an overnight success. Regardless, BlackBerry has never made an all touch phone that has been a success. Nokia had made several phones that were all touch that were respected and admired. Nokia made good phones for both ends of the market whereas BlackBerry is associated with PKB phones only.

    Nokia will be coming out with a bezel less design in the near future.

    So Nokia seems to have hit the road running but perhaps they lack the resources to maintain the pace. BlackBerry Motion seems to be keen on not losing money. Maybe their sturdy big battery approach may be more successful in the long run.

    BlackBerry Motion is depending on BlackBerry for its software whereas Nokia is using more or less a stock version of Android. What the market would prefer from both vendors is the software support that Google gives their Pixel line.
    Qorax likes this.
    11-05-17 08:23 AM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    HMD has much more ambitious plans than TCL. That may or may not work well for HMD. We’ll have to see.

    They have a full line of devices and they are investing heavily in this. It’s also worth pointing out they have a lot of talent that TCL probably does not have.
    Qorax and Sir Face notFone like this.
    11-05-17 08:28 AM
  21. Invictus0's Avatar
    Nokia's Windows was a non-starter. They were already dead by then*. They tried to breathe their last gasp with Windows, but failed.

    Their last OS was Meego Harmattan (a splendidly done platform like the BB10) - but was abandoned after launch due to 'abnormal' and ill-conceived decisions by their top brass. A very similar approach as we can see at Blackberry. Which is why, we can assume that the same path is laid forward for Blackberry as well.

    *By not being able to compete with the 'smartness' of Samsung and Apple.
    Nokia was still a huge company with a lot of reach in 2011 (they were the second or third largest phone maker in the world at that point). The Windows Phone deal was doomed to fail IMO because compared to Symbian, Windows Phone was incredibly locked down and missing core features that Symbian users expected. It also didn't help that their Windows Phone 7 devices were essentially EOL'ed a few weeks after launch.

    There were other shortcomings with Windows Phone but compared to Android (which also had problems) they couldn't use apps or user mods to make up for it. A few Symbian and Meego users and developers ended up on BB10 when it launched, I wouldn't be surprised if most moved over to Android.
    Qorax likes this.
    11-05-17 10:22 AM
  22. nogutsnoglory's Avatar
    And Nokia is actually offering flagship level devices. BlackBerry really needs to offer something on the higher end of specs.
    When they did this with the Priv, so many people complained about how the phone was too expensive. Based on the specs that the phone had it was listed at the proper price, but people complained and wanted the phone to sell at a sub $500 price point, which frankly could never work. The Priv was a high end phone and how did that go for BB?
    11-05-17 12:04 PM
  23. Invictus0's Avatar
    When they did this with the Priv, so many people complained about how the phone was too expensive. Based on the specs that the phone had it was listed at the proper price, but people complained and wanted the phone to sell at a sub $500 price point, which frankly could never work. The Priv was a high end phone and how did that go for BB?
    The Priv had other shortcomings which drove complaints like dated software at launch, build quality issues, and a problematic SOC (which totally wasn't BlackBerry's fault, it was just a bad year for high end Qualcomm chips).

    The only other flagship Android device we've seen from them was the DTEK60 which was priced competitively, had great specs, but launched with limited availability.
    11-05-17 12:32 PM
  24. A Noise Annoys's Avatar
    Nokia (re)launched with a nostalgic device that costs next to nothing and had a similar sales response that Nintendo had when they (re)launched their SES systems. Since then Nokia has launched a series of devices that are low profit/high volume devices; BlackBerry Mobile has launched a range of devices that are higher profit/lower volume devices: the comparison is essentially moot.
    11-05-17 04:01 PM
  25. A Noise Annoys's Avatar
    Nokia never went Windows. MS bought their devices division and brand name and released Windows phones using the Nokia name.
    They went 'Windows' well before Microsoft bought them out.
    Sir Face notFone likes this.
    11-05-17 04:04 PM
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