[bb10adopter111]

Never said smart watches would replace smartphones, I believe we are still faraway from that sort of scenario. The reason I believe they could outsell smartphones however is due to the number of areas a smartwatch can be introduced vs phones, again due to the fact that a smartwatch is now the closest thing in tracking a person’s whereabouts and well-being amongst other things, this opens it up to more possibilities than we can even think of at this point in time.

I do believe it’s a great idea, of course for everything good in technology there’s the bad, and one can only hope companies take the correct measures for this, much in the same way as in smartphones. There are still people out there who actually believe their digital footprint is minimal because of the smartphone they use.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "outsell." For smart watches to sell more units than smartphones, there would have to be a population of people buying smart watches who were not buying smart phones, no?

In mathematical terms:

A= people with smart phones
B= people with smart watch

B cannot be greater than A unless there are more members of B who are not members of A than there are members of A who are not members of B

or, more technically,

If B > A, then (A minus the intersection of A and B) > (B minus the intersection of A and B.

Perhaps I am just misunderstanding you?

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[Chuck Finley69]

No, they chose to spend their money in the wrong places, which is called bad investments. They always had billions in cash on hand and never used it to market where they wanted to go, because they likely didn't know themselves. They wanted phones to stay dumb and dependant upon their own infrastructure and didn't position their products in the market the way they could have. To make it worse, They wasted millions trying to get Alycia Keys and other celebs to be spokespeople, but didn't have a message about their products. They, like you, blamed it on the products, the market, and everything else, except on their own failures which was lack of marketing and their own arrogance. Case in point, the only reason people buy ****ty my pillows stuffed with foam rubber fill that was invented in the 40's, is because marketing is powerful. Imagine if blackberry had tried it.

When did BlackBerry have billions to use cash on hand? Specifically what quarter of what year would you had marketed your BB10 in a different manner?

[mulderlr]

Every single one. Why make a product if you don't have a marketing budget? Stuff doesn't sell itself!

When did BlackBerry have billions to use cash on hand? Specifically what quarter of what year would you had marketed your BB10 in a different manner?

[Chuck Finley69]

Every single one. Why make a product if you don't have a marketing budget? Stuff doesn't sell itself!

That’s been the point since BB purchased QNX in 2010 or so. There wasn’t any BB10 at time. It’s BBOS months revenue was declining on a per device basis and was only increasing overall from third world regions. As soon as the Android/iOS hardware with 3G data picked up in 2012-2013 that started declining as well. From 2010-2013, BlackBerry spent all of it’s cash reserves on BB10 development and BBOS development support. It had employees literally getting paid on a delayed and developer unsupported BB10 project. It didn’t have the economic resources to develop BB10 properly to begin with once Apple, Google and Microsoft began throwing all their free cash flow around from diversified operations to develop Android/iOS or Windows Mobile app ecosystems. It’s what put Symbian, Palm and webOS into the proverbial dirt nap. Even if BB10 had come out earlier, there’s no revenue stream to fight the big three and even Microsoft didn't maintain the fight. It’s always had the money but support for the duopoly meant still no development support or hardware and software OS results that justified the billions upon billions that Microsoft had and has on hand plus the billions it continue to generate. If all BB10 needed was cash to succeed, Microsoft could have purchased BlackBerry like it did Nokia for a fraction of the Nokia price. Literally BB could have been purchased with Bill Gates loose change in his sofa cushions. Microsoft did consider a purchase until it reviewed the books. It was only after these actions with no purchase offers that Watsa agreed to loan BB $1 Billion if BB hired and installed John Chen as CEO and the board allowed Chen to implement the current strategy including exiting mobile hardware as soon as fiscally possible.

[Chuck Finley69]

Every single one. Why make a product if you don't have a marketing budget? Stuff doesn't sell itself!

That’s been the point since BB purchased QNX in 2010 or so. There wasn’t any BB10 at time. It’s BBOS months revenue was declining on a per device basis and was only increasing overall from third world regions. As soon as the Android/iOS hardware with 3G data picked up in 2012-2013 that started declining as well. From 2010-2013, BlackBerry spent all of it’s cash reserves on BB10 development and BBOS development support. It had employees literally getting paid on a delayed and developer unsupported BB10 project. It didn’t have the economic resources to develop BB10 properly to begin with once Apple, Google and Microsoft began throwing all their free cash flow around from diversified operations to develop Android/iOS or Windows Mobile app ecosystems. It’s what put Symbian, Palm and webOS into the proverbial dirt nap. Even if BB10 had come out earlier, there’s no revenue stream to fight the big three and even Microsoft didn't maintain the fight. It’s always had the money but support for the duopoly meant still no development support or hardware and software OS results that justified the billions upon billions that Microsoft had and has on hand plus the billions it continue to generate. If all BB10 needed was cash to succeed, Microsoft could have purchased BlackBerry like it did Nokia for a fraction of the Nokia price. Literally BB could have been purchased with Bill Gates loose change in his sofa cushions. Microsoft did consider a purchase until it reviewed the books. It was only after these actions with no purchase offers that Watsa agreed to loan BB $1 Billion if BB hired and installed John Chen as CEO and the board allowed Chen to implement the current strategy including exiting mobile hardware as soon as fiscally possible.

[anon(10622733)]

No k3 mention in sight so I got a KX3.
Attachment 446566

Any drift with the VFO?

[falbo]

Any drift with the VFO?

None noticed yet. The K1 did suffer slightly until it warmed up. ;-) 73

[The_Passporter]

Not as convenient or versatile as a smart watch though. Recently the fall detection on the Apple Watch saved the lives of hikers who fell down a cliff after getting lost. The watch detected the fall and activated the emergency alert that alerts authorities. This is huge for places such as old age homes and the elderly, as well as anyone who is active....heck, you get into a car accident and your watch senses the great amount of G-forces exerted on your body and within seconds it can alert the authorities of your exact location and of your condition in real-time, helping them better prepare to treat you when they get to the scene.

I mean life saving is not at all marginal, but that’s just my opinion.

The possibilities are endless with wearables, particularly smart watches.

I can’t think of another device that can be as helpful in such a wide variety of situations than a smart watch, even your phone can’t help you in some situations as it is not tethered to you.

I'm just going to say......... that's pretty cool.
Yes money means more then lives sad to say so they won't be buying Apple watches at the hospitals lol. Hopefully this technology gets incorporated into many other platforms.

Hammered out on my Precious Passport

[The_Passporter]

That’s been the point since BB purchased QNX in 2010 or so. There wasn’t any BB10 at time. It’s BBOS months revenue was declining on a per device basis and was only increasing overall from third world regions. As soon as the Android/iOS hardware with 3G data picked up in 2012-2013 that started declining as well. From 2010-2013, BlackBerry spent all of it’s cash reserves on BB10 development and BBOS development support. It had employees literally getting paid on a delayed and developer unsupported BB10 project. It didn’t have the economic resources to develop BB10 properly to begin with once Apple, Google and Microsoft began throwing all their free cash flow around from diversified operations to develop Android/iOS or Windows Mobile app ecosystems. It’s what put Symbian, Palm and webOS into the proverbial dirt nap. Even if BB10 had come out earlier, there’s no revenue stream to fight the big three and even Microsoft didn't maintain the fight. It’s always had the money but support for the duopoly meant still no development support or hardware and software OS results that justified the billions upon billions that Microsoft had and has on hand plus the billions it continue to generate. If all BB10 needed was cash to succeed, Microsoft could have purchased BlackBerry like it did Nokia for a fraction of the Nokia price. Literally BB could have been purchased with Bill Gates loose change in his sofa cushions. Microsoft did consider a purchase until it reviewed the books. It was only after these actions with no purchase offers that Watsa agreed to loan BB $1 Billion if BB hired and installed John Chen as CEO and the board allowed Chen to implement the current strategy including exiting mobile hardware as soon as fiscally possible.

Wowa! Chucky that's a lot of text!! Did you just buy yourself a brand spanking new Passport or are you the captain tonight?

Hammered out on my Precious Passport

[mulderlr]

What part of "BlackBerry. Sucks. At. Marketing" are you unable to understand?

That’s been the point since BB purchased QNX in 2010 or so. There wasn’t any BB10 at time. It’s BBOS months revenue was declining on a per device basis and was only increasing overall from third world regions. As soon as the Android/iOS hardware with 3G data picked up in 2012-2013 that started declining as well. From 2010-2013, BlackBerry spent all of it’s cash reserves on BB10 development and BBOS development support. It had employees literally getting paid on a delayed and developer unsupported BB10 project. It didn’t have the economic resources to develop BB10 properly to begin with once Apple, Google and Microsoft began throwing all their free cash flow around from diversified operations to develop Android/iOS or Windows Mobile app ecosystems. It’s what put Symbian, Palm and webOS into the proverbial dirt nap. Even if BB10 had come out earlier, there’s no revenue stream to fight the big three and even Microsoft didn't maintain the fight. It’s always had the money but support for the duopoly meant still no development support or hardware and software OS results that justified the billions upon billions that Microsoft had and has on hand plus the billions it continue to generate. If all BB10 needed was cash to succeed, Microsoft could have purchased BlackBerry like it did Nokia for a fraction of the Nokia price. Literally BB could have been purchased with Bill Gates loose change in his sofa cushions. Microsoft did consider a purchase until it reviewed the books. It was only after these actions with no purchase offers that Watsa agreed to loan BB $1 Billion if BB hired and installed John Chen as CEO and the board allowed Chen to implement the current strategy including exiting mobile hardware as soon as fiscally possible.

[bb10adopter111]

What part of "BlackBerry. Sucks. At. Marketing" are you unable to understand?

If by marketing you mean the real meaning of that word, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_mix, then I agree:

"The set of marketing tools that the firm uses to pursue its marketing objectives in the target market,"namely,

Product
Price
Place
Promotion

In BlackBerry's case the chief problem, since 2008, has been PRODUCT, followed by PLACE and PRICE.

They had the wrong products, so carriers and retailers wouldn't give them shelf space (Place), and they couldn't price them low enough to make them more attractive because they didn't have the volume to cover their overhead.

But I think you think marketing just means advertising which is one part of the marketing communications function in PROMOTION. That's been the least of BlackBerry's problens!

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[mulderlr]

It's primarily promotion. You can promote a ketchup popsicle and sell them to women in white gloves if you try hard enough. BlackBerry (RIM) never really promoted their products and when they tried it was a one off like a Superbowl ad for the Z10! Like really? That's where you start? Paying 10 of millions for a Superbowl Ad knowing full well you might not get the sales volume to cover the cost? How about radio, print, tv, email and everything else besides Superbowl and celeb endorsements until you have earned those with the marketshare to back it up? I don't buy this nonsense that they didn't have the budget to advertise, because it was never about that. They thought they could rely on brand recognition alone and that would carry them on the next wave because they were the king of smartphones and they deserved the title. How absolutely perverse and frustrating as a BlackBerry fan. The problem continued through their foray into Android because nobody outside the BlackBerry faithful ever knew they were still in business let alone making pkb phones and that, my friend, is a promotional/marketing decision.

If by marketing you mean the real meaning of that word, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_mix, then I agree:

"The set of marketing tools that the firm uses to pursue its marketing objectives in the target market,"namely,

Product
Price
Place
Promotion

In BlackBerry's case the chief problem, since 2008, has been PRODUCT, followed by PLACE and PRICE.

They had the wrong products, so carriers and retailers wouldn't give them shelf space (Place), and they couldn't price them low enough to make them more attractive because they didn't have the volume to cover their overhead.

But I think you think marketing just means advertising which is one part of the marketing communications function in PROMOTION. That's been the least of BlackBerry's problens!

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[Chuck Finley69]

What part of "BlackBerry. Sucks. At. Marketing" are you unable to understand?

We’ll really never know since it’s been demonstrated repeatedly here the company had no money to market the product because it spent practically all of it before it the product was even completed. I’ve demonstrated repeatedly there’s no cash flow after BB10 crashed and burned in the first 90 days when nobody wanted it. For the first 12-18 months after introduction, BB10 really sucked not its marketing. The 10.2.1 update helped but the game changer was 10.3.2 update. By December 2013, BlackBerry should have been 80% in the ditch. Chen and Watsa barely kept in on the road. At that point there wasn’t really anything to market. Carriers already told BB to quit the Z line. The Z30 was only carried by VZW in USA, does that sound familiar? There was zero to market at time. AT&T pulled its support at last minute.

If at some point you could backup anything you say with actual facts, we could move this along. I know I have the easier time because all my facts are public record. BB10 sucking as the commercial epic failure it was, I’d be happy to concede it was poor marketing or advertising, but again you’d need to have some way to factually prove BB could have done anything beyond what it did. Right now, the only thing you’re claiming is that BB didn’t use it’s stash of leprechaun gold and unicorn dust.

[bb10adopter111]

It's primarily promotion. You can promote a ketchup popsicle and sell them to women in white gloves if you try hard enough. BlackBerry (RIM) never really promoted their products and when they tried it was a one off like a Superbowl ad for the Z10! Like really? That's where you start? Paying 10 of millions for a Superbowl Ad knowing full well you might not get the sales volume to cover the cost? How about radio, print, tv, email and everything else besides Superbowl and celeb endorsements until you have earned those with the marketshare to back it up? I don't buy this nonsense that they didn't have the budget to advertise, because it was never about that. They thought they could rely on brand recognition alone and that would carry them on the next wave because they were the king of smartphones and they deserved the title. How absolutely perverse and frustrating as a BlackBerry fan. The problem continued through their foray into Android because nobody outside the BlackBerry faithful ever knew they were still in business let alone making pkb phones and that, my friend, is a promotional/marketing decision.

You can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

No amount of advertising would have made people who wanted mainstream apps purchase a phone without them. The only possible strategy would have been to discounts the phones so much that they were effectively free, and that's against the law. (Dumping)

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[mulderlr]

It's a catch 22. They needed market share for apps and they needed apps for market share.

Dumping isn't against the law because that is how Microsoft Internet explorer killed Netscape. It's all in how it's executed.

They needed market share and to catch up you need to flood the market with devices and advertise the heck out of them in a way that conveys their value proposition. BlackBerry didn't even try with bb10, and if they weren't going to try, they should have gone from bbos to Android right away, but without good marketing, they would be in the same position today if not worse, because They. Don't. Advertise!

You can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

No amount of advertising would have made people who wanted mainstream apps purchase a phone without them. The only possible strategy would have been to discounts the phones so much that they were effectively free, and that's against the law. (Dumping)

From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.

[the_boon]

You don’t seem to understand the fact that it’s not just about people wanting them, there are so many areas a smart watch covers that they could outstrip smartphones in sales over the next few years, simply due to new important functions being added to them from ECG, Fall Detection, Child Safety, Emergency alerts etc... With it being a product that tethers to you, it’s a whole new level of personalization that I doubt anyone can currently comprehend. This is a device that is literally on you longer than your smartphone is in your hand, do you get that at least?

Stop limiting yourself to what you think people want. Most people didn’t want a smartphone before 2007, most people didn’t want 3G, video on their phone or GPS in the year 2000.


What is also incredible is how quickly the Smart Watch tech is progressing with more efficient chips, Display technologies that allow AOD with minimal power draw, more sensors that will give way to even more advancements in all industries from fitness, medical, financial etc.... The likes of Apple, Samsung, Garmin, Fitbit etc... are just getting started.

I'm down for a smartwatch on four conditions:

1. It has to last 3 days on a charge with light use

2. I have to be able able to connect one of those portable compact Bluetooth keyboards in case I wanna type sms/whatsapp messages without needing my phone. I heard this could be possible.

3. I want a full airplane mode which would allow me to disable every single connectivity to minimize the extra cellular radiation (well assuming it's an LTE capable watch).

4. It has to work beautifully with a KEY2

If you can find me a few smartwatches that tick the above boxes, I'll consider them.

[Gene Fells]

Wowa! Chucky that's a lot of text!! Did you just buy yourself a brand spanking new Passport or are you the captain tonight?

Hammered out on my Precious Passport

Whatever device he is using, it would appear it is incapable of inserting paragraph breaks

[anon(10622733)]

Whatever device he is using, it would appear it is incapable of inserting paragraph breaks

He's using a DEV Alpha Key3 in leprechaun gold with unicorn sprinkles. Having trouble reaching the Captain however when using Wi-Fi calling.

[Chuck Finley69]

Wowa! Chucky that's a lot of text!! Did you just buy yourself a brand spanking new Passport or are you the captain tonight?

Hammered out on my Precious Passport

Whatever device he is using, it would appear it is incapable of inserting paragraph breaks

He's using a DEV Alpha Key3 in leprechaun gold with unicorn sprinkles. Having trouble reaching the Captain however when using Wi-Fi calling.

I’m testing DEV Alpha Key4 device running Android 10 from Optiemus BB licensee on regular basis with help from the Captain so what can I say...other than software updates have already stopped ...

[Tsepz_GP]

I'm down for a smartwatch on four conditions:

1. It has to last 3 days on a charge with light use

2. I have to be able able to connect one of those portable compact Bluetooth keyboards in case I wanna type sms/whatsapp messages without needing my phone. I heard this could be possible.

3. I want a full airplane mode which would allow me to disable every single connectivity to minimize the extra cellular radiation (well assuming it's an LTE capable watch).

4. It has to work beautifully with a KEY2

If you can find me a few smartwatches that tick the above boxes, I'll consider them.

Huawei Watch GT2, Samsung Galaxy Watch Active 2, Garmin Forerunner 945 etc etc etc.... All will get you what you want. I'd suggest checking out some YouTube videos.

Not at all trying to convince you to get one, but I am making an argument for what is a huge growth point in Mobile, I find mine super convenient I didn't know how good these things could be until I got that very basic Huawei Band 2 Pro for free and then realised that they are very useful and thus went and purchased a more full fledged watch.

Here are some good ones:

[idssteve]

Wowa! Chucky that's a lot of text!! Did you just buy yourself a brand spanking new Passport or are you the captain tonight?

Hammered out on my Precious Passport

It's a "thought to thumb" cranial connection. Much like "thought to tongue". A too unappreciated capability hidden in our own hand! My tongue sometimes moves while thumb types! Yep, call me strange. Lol. He risks hankering for a Bold, if not careful!

[johnsliderbb]

Training for the Tour de France indeed is kind of the only reason where a smartwatch does bring the marginal gains. Me as a former long distance t&f runner training 5 times a week wouldnt really gain from it, my level still being too low.

Looking at my co-workers who have such a watch i notice:

1) indeed, they keep looking at it even when having a conversation with you. Now that isnt any different from people reacting on their bbm blue led blinking in the past, just looking at another piece of electronics.

2) to almost all of them i have said.
- pancakes extra buttered and sugared is not a proper breakfast
- Coke or Iron dew isn’t something what you should drink from 9 am on throughout the day
-What you shovel onto your plate every meal quality wise is rubbish and quantity wise probably best be reduced by a factor 2 or 3

Applying 2 would bring much more than the watch in 99 out of 100 cases.

Applying 2, actual understanding how your body reacts on food probably also would prevented being in a situation that your survival depends on some piece of plastic to warn you when something goes wrong. Can only hope it still has charge the moment something happens.

Using a satnav makes me at least lazy. Going to somewhere never been before in the past meant studying maps. It also meant second time around you would know how to drive. Just following the arrow on the satnav makes second time around i still dont know as i am not challenged to know anymore.


Here the watch come in again. Just following the watch isnt helping you to understand impact training has on your body, no challenge anymore. So unless you are Chris Froome who already knows, normal people would be better of without.

Some basic understanding on impact on body of food and excersizing is missing. Convenience food isnt cured by convenient monitoring tools.

Didnt mention surveillance capatalism yet that will screw you once so many people have signed up for an insurance with a watch that normal insurances in what ever multi-insurance-poly will cease to exist.

Just my observations on co-workers on this one.

[Tsepz_GP]

Training for the Tour de France indeed is kind of the only reason where a smartwatch does bring the marginal gains. Me as a former long distance t&f runner training 5 times a week wouldnt really gain from it, my level still being too low.

Looking at my co-workers who have such a watch i notice:

1) indeed, they keep looking at it even when having a conversation with you. Now that isnt any different from people reacting on their bbm blue led blinking in the past, just looking at another piece of electronics.

2) to almost all of them i have said.
- pancakes extra buttered and sugared is not a proper breakfast
- Coke or Iron dew isn’t something what you should drink from 9 am on throughout the day
-What you shovel onto your plate every meal quality wise is rubbish and quantity wise probably best be reduced by a factor 2 or 3

Applying 2 would bring much more than the watch in 99 out of 100 cases.

Applying 2, actual understanding how your body reacts on food probably also would prevented being in a situation that your survival depends on some piece of plastic to warn you when something goes wrong. Can only hope it still has charge the moment something happens.

Using a satnav makes me at least lazy. Going to somewhere never been before in the past meant studying maps. It also meant second time around you would know how to drive. Just following the arrow on the satnav makes second time around i still dont know as i am not challenged to know anymore.


Here the watch come in again. Just following the watch isnt helping you to understand impact training has on your body, no challenge anymore. So unless you are Chris Froome who already knows, normal people would be better of without.

Some basic understanding on impact on body of food and excersizing is missing. Convenience food isnt cured by convenient monitoring tools.

Didnt mention surveillance capatalism yet that will screw you once so many people have signed up for an insurance with a watch that normal insurances in what ever multi-insurance-poly will cease to exist.

Just my observations on co-workers on this one.

You are absolutely right, all this convenience is terrible, who wants a smartphone or a watch with GPS when they can just have a map and hope it's not outdated?
Who needs 5G when they can just have good ol' dial-up!?
Heck, why do we even need internet!? Encyclopedias were so great that you had the challenge of them being outdated the same day you bought them.
All these fancy computers when Typewriters were just fine, aaaaaand "the man" cannot track those!

Damn all these companies and their technology for "the man" to listen to us and track us!

I have seen the light now and totally understand where you and bb10adopter111 are going with this...

[Chuck Finley69]

You are absolutely right, all this convenience is terrible, who wants a smartphone or a watch with GPS when they can just have a map and hope it's not outdated?
Who needs 5G when they can just have good ol' dial-up!?
Heck, why do we even need internet!? Encyclopedias were so great that you had the challenge of them being outdated the same day you bought them.
All these fancy computers when Typewriters were just fine, aaaaaand "the man" cannot track those!

Damn all these companies and their technology for "the man" to listen to us and track us!

I have seen the light now and totally understand where you and bb10adopter111 are going with this...
[IMG=320x240]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191202/bbc7dd4795467a07c9e146a2635de6a9.jpg[/url]

Is the man tracking me too? LOL - while I understand people disliking less privacy, how would one expect to get customized user experience without unique identifiers. We deal with these situations everyday in our lives. Our neighbors and their cameras, license plate readers, GPS tracking on vehicles by lienholders, carrier location on ISP and not just mobile.

Everyone is free to not participate in society but can’t be upset when society doesn’t play along.

[Chuck Finley69]

You are absolutely right, all this convenience is terrible, who wants a smartphone or a watch with GPS when they can just have a map and hope it's not outdated?
Who needs 5G when they can just have good ol' dial-up!?
Heck, why do we even need internet!? Encyclopedias were so great that you had the challenge of them being outdated the same day you bought them.
All these fancy computers when Typewriters were just fine, aaaaaand "the man" cannot track those!

Damn all these companies and their technology for "the man" to listen to us and track us!

I have seen the light now and totally understand where you and bb10adopter111 are going with this...
[IMG=320x240]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191202/bbc7dd4795467a07c9e146a2635de6a9.jpg[/url]

Is the man tracking me too? LOL - while I understand people disliking less privacy, how would one expect to get customized user experience without unique identifiers. We deal with these situations everyday in our lives. Our neighbors and their cameras, license plate readers, GPS tracking on vehicles by lienholders, carrier location on ISP and not just mobile.

Everyone is free to not participate in society but can’t be upset when society doesn’t play along.