01-15-11 09:31 PM
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  1. Thuoudo's Avatar
    My "record player" didn't fail. I have a Linn Sondek... got it just before the sound quality of CD players improved, which occurred when the 2nd and 3rd gen units hit the market. I prolly should have saved my $2k+ and applied it to some newer technology! (then again, being a self-indulgent audiophile, I also sprung for a Nakamichi Dragon) Yes, I'm spoiled. Both the Dragon and the LD still work well but of course they don't see much action nowadays.
    Linn tables are very nice...

    That's the "fun" part about tech...we know everything will go down in price, sooner than later...yet, you want the newest and best...but you don't want to pay a premium for it
    4g isn't the big deal. The big deal is are they really going to release something new before they roll out a 4g device? The 4g isn't the relevant part, the new device is.
    My initial reaction is something like...is it just to keep up with everyone else? In other words, RIM keeping up appearances...that they are watching the market?

    Thinking further, what role does the PlayBook, well, play? Trickle-down tech or flagship-only tech?

    I'd be interested in seeing a study or something showing the percentage (or number) of people who upgrade their phone every two years vs those who don't...besides technoistas. Actually...a really interesting stat would be the percentage of people who care what phone they use vs those who don't
    01-06-11 04:50 PM
  2. 1812dave's Avatar
    Linn tables are very nice...

    That's the "fun" part about tech...we know everything will go down in price, sooner than later...yet, you want the newest and best...but you don't want to pay a premium for it

    My initial reaction is something like...is it just to keep up with everyone else? In other words, RIM keeping up appearances...that they are watching the market?

    Thinking further, what role does the PlayBook, well, play? Trickle-down tech or flagship-only tech?

    I'd be interested in seeing a study or something showing the percentage (or number) of people who upgrade their phone every two years vs those who don't...besides technoistas. Actually...a really interesting stat would be the percentage of people who care what phone they use vs those who don't


    I'm not big on being an early adopter: version one generally sucks--witness the first iPhone and touch--no speaker or vol controls on the touch; the OS was half baked for both. the wrinkles are mostly fixed by version "two"

    If the first version of something seems not to be lacking in some obvious way, I will buy it. For example, I bought one of the first Honda Gold Wings. No regrets there! They had two immediate issues with it, which were fixed in the first two weeks--clutch grabbing and a drive-line issue. Both were fixed admirably.

    I'm still waiting on the price for the PB, as well as how it performs IN PERSON. I remain hopeful and interested, but I haven't bought an engagement ring for the thing.
    01-06-11 07:59 PM
  3. theruined's Avatar
    ...but I haven't bought an engagement ring for the thing.
    But you are considering marriage? ooo ooo I hear wedding bells!!!
    01-06-11 08:05 PM
  4. 1812dave's Avatar
    But you are considering marriage? ooo ooo I hear wedding bells!!!
    been happily married since 2002! I'm never married to my electronics as there's always something new and better around the corner. that's why RIM better step it up QUICKLY, or it's Android, come this spring.
    01-06-11 08:14 PM
  5. corymcnutt's Avatar
    been happily married since 2002! I'm never married to my electronics as there's always something new and better around the corner. that's why RIM better step it up QUICKLY, or it's Android, come this spring.
    From the CES happenings, both products and comments, it looks like we BOTH may be sporting new Android devices this Spring/Summer - a new BB might have to wait until 2012!
    01-06-11 09:03 PM
  6. justice-strike's Avatar
    I've gotten a 3g phone a good 3 years ago, when 3g was quite new. Havn't used it but thought it would come in handy one day... Well, let me tell you, i might have umts on that phone... but it's the slowest form avaiable.

    Now i don't regret buying the phone (as it's still the best choice at the moment). But the 3g on that phone is useless. It's slow and it drains batteries (1 hour internet ==> battery dead).

    I'm guessing that it will be the same with 4g. It might be 4g technology, but it will be a fraction of the speed. And seriously, who needs more than 7mbit on a mobile phone now or in the next 2 years? I think even if it had the power to download with 100mbit, the phone you will buy now, will not be able to cope with that speed anyway.

    Now if i where using my phone as a internet connection for my laptop I would have a different opinion. But only slightly as I have a 2 mbit line at home (don't ask me why, it's not by choice) and it's perfectly suitable for browsing. Only get's annoying when downloading a lot.

    So my questions is, will you download a lot?
    Last edited by justice-strike; 01-06-11 at 10:18 PM.
    01-06-11 10:14 PM
  7. 1812dave's Avatar
    I've gotten a 3g phone a good 3 years ago, when 3g was quite new. Havn't used it but thought it would come in handy one day... Well, let me tell you, i might have umts on that phone... but it's the slowest form avaiable.

    Now i don't regret buying the phone (as it's still the best choice at the moment). But the 3g on that phone is useless. It's slow and it drains batteries (1 hour internet ==> battery dead).

    I'm guessing that it will be the same with 4g. It might be 4g technology, but it will be a fraction of the speed. And seriously, who needs more than 7mbit on a mobile phone now or in the next 2 years? I think even if it had the power to download with 100mbit, the phone you will buy now, will not be able to cope with that speed anyway.

    Now if i where using my phone as a internet connection for my laptop I would have a different opinion. But only slightly as I have a 2 mbit line at home (don't ask me why, it's not by choice) and it's perfectly suitable for browsing. Only get's annoying when downloading a lot.

    So my questions is, will you download a lot?
    People have all sorts of different opinions about internet speeds. I'm on generally at 20Mb/sec, with a ping time of around 25. I spend a LOT of time online, both browsing, downloading updates, and gaming. Even that speed leaves me wanting MORE speed. I'd feel total frustration if I had to make do with 2Mb/sec. Faster speeds for mobile devices (presuming the carriers don't impose ridiculously low data limits) will open up the platform to new uses.
    01-07-11 08:59 AM
  8. justice-strike's Avatar
    People have all sorts of different opinions about internet speeds. I'm on generally at 20Mb/sec, with a ping time of around 25. I spend a LOT of time online, both browsing, downloading updates, and gaming. Even that speed leaves me wanting MORE speed. I'd feel total frustration if I had to make do with 2Mb/sec.
    i can understand that. I was totally frustrated when i went from a good connection to a bad connection (and i'm still frustrated from time to time!)

    Faster speeds for mobile devices (presuming the carriers don't impose ridiculously low data limits) will open up the platform to new uses.
    true, but:

    1. carries do impose ridiculous low data limits
    2. new devices with 4g often do not have the capability to use 4g properly.

    Look at the first batch of 3g phones. I'm pretty sure that they lack the ability to make proper use of 3g. I'm going to predict that this will be the same as with 4g. Yes 4g will open up the platform, but most likely that won't be on the first generation 4g devices.
    01-09-11 10:24 PM
  9. BlackStormRising's Avatar
    Well, nice to have a 4G device right now. Now only for want of a network. LTE is just now rolling out. Spot here, spot there. By the time you can use your marvel of 4G technology, you're gonna be looking to upgrade anyway, unless, of course, you live in one of the 'gifted' locations. Meanwhile, your $$ goes out the door. It's kinda like drooling over an egg thinking of smoked turkey.

    Of course the others are rolling out 4G phones now. But they have just as much 3G capability as A BlackBerry . However, will you get to use it in 4G? Stay tuned....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I am still stuck in that hypnotic trance by the way from your beacon....
    01-09-11 10:31 PM
  10. jd914's Avatar
    I would much rather them take the time to perfect a 4G BB than to rush one out just to keep up...kinda how the S1 was a huge FAIL, a rushed 4G BB would be in the same boat...not that 4G matters to me anyway...but I guess it would be nice to have
    You simply can't Compare a Storm 1 to any phone on the market. The Storm 1 was destined to fail even before it's release.
    01-09-11 10:37 PM
  11. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Well, nice to have a 4G device right now. Now only for want of a network. LTE is just now rolling out. Spot here, spot there. By the time you can use your marvel of 4G technology, you're gonna be looking to upgrade anyway, unless, of course, you live in one of the 'gifted' locations. Meanwhile, your $$ goes out the door. It's kinda like drooling over an egg thinking of smoked turkey.

    Of course the others are rolling out 4G phones now. But they have just as much 3G capability as A BlackBerry . However, will you get to use it in 4G? Stay tuned....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That's a bad generalization and it depends on where you live.

    4G will roll out to large metropolitan areas first. If you live and/or work in one then you'll probably want to get one now, not in a year.

    If the 4G you're talking about is HSPA+, then you want one now because you get the "4G" whereever the carrier's 3G network exits.

    Verizon isn't the only carrier that exists, and their 4G speeds are pretty much par for the course with HSPA+ these days. AT&T is also launching LTE this year and their phones should be expected to fall back to HSPA+ or HSDPA on an HSPA+ network (which almost caps out the HSDPA speeds) when LTE isn't available. It's still a good idea to get the handset sooner rather than later.

    Getting an LTE device doesn't mean you won't have internet access when LTE isn't available. If you use an GSM Carrier, you should get your HSPA+ handsets whenever you feel like it because the speeds are great and there is no Premium Data Fee like what Sprint charges for WiMax.

    LTE Coverage (on Verizon) will quickly surpass WiMax, I feel, and HSPA+ (esp on AT&T) coverage has already surpassed it - that was an easy undertaking.

    From what I've read, it almost seems like they will not be Unlimited Data Plans for LTE on Verizon (and definitely not AT&T), so I'll stay with T-Mobile and enjoy my Soft-Capped (not Hard-Capped with Overages) HSPA+ data service/speeds with Free Roaming.
    01-09-11 11:24 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    That's a bad generalization and it depends on where you live.

    4G will roll out to large metropolitan areas first. If you live and/or work in one then you'll probably want to get one now, not in a year.

    If the 4G you're talking about is HSPA+, then you want one now because you get the "4G" whereever the carrier's 3G network exits.

    Verizon isn't the only carrier that exists, and their 4G speeds are pretty much par for the course with HSPA+ these days. AT&T is also launching LTE this year and their phones should be expected to fall back to HSPA+ or HSDPA on an HSPA+ network (which almost caps out the HSDPA speeds) when LTE isn't available. It's still a good idea to get the handset sooner rather than later.

    Getting an LTE device doesn't mean you won't have internet access when LTE isn't available. If you use an GSM Carrier, you should get your HSPA+ handsets whenever you feel like it because the speeds are great and there is no Premium Data Fee like what Sprint charges for WiMax.

    LTE Coverage (on Verizon) will quickly surpass WiMax, I feel, and HSPA+ (esp on AT&T) coverage has already surpassed it - that was an easy undertaking.

    From what I've read, it almost seems like they will not be Unlimited Data Plans for LTE on Verizon (and definitely not AT&T), so I'll stay with T-Mobile and enjoy my Soft-Capped (not Hard-Capped with Overages) HSPA+ data service/speeds with Free Roaming.
    Not that I want to put you off but on the crackberry podcast at the end they coment how lte doesn't work past 14th floor and also how one of them had to turn lte off as it was killing the battery. The later is the biggest fear as most high end Androids don't have good battery life to start with on 3G, never mind 4G/LTE

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 01:37 AM
  13. lssanjose's Avatar
    Uh, the high end Androids have good battery life. Also, it gives users (if rooted) even more means to preserve the precious battery life. Then again, some Android users put the pedal to the metal, and really use their devices. And don't forget, most of these phones are processing more raw data on top of that because things aren't compressed.
    01-10-11 01:48 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Uh, the high end Androids have good battery life. Also, it gives users (if rooted) even more means to preserve the precious battery life. Then again, some Android users put the pedal to the metal, and really use their devices. And don't forget, most of these phones are processing more raw data on top of that because things aren't compressed.
    Well, it's not like blackberry owners don't have a infamous reputation for being glued to theirs all day but battery still lasts a lot longer, a 9700 can easily last two days. My point is 4G/LTE will make it even worse, no matter if that's a blackberry or android or something else.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 01:53 AM
  15. lssanjose's Avatar
    Well, a part of that success can be explained by the fact it's a GSM phone - as CDMA doesn't have the battery life reputation the former has. Secondly, it doesn't run a GPU like the higher end CDMA BlackBerry Storms, and Bolds. Thirdly, having a physical keyboard also helps in this department. Fourthly, GSM users have the option to not use 3G, CDMA users don't.

    However, howarmat has reported a 50-hr time before needing to charge his Incredible.
    01-10-11 02:03 AM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I know how it's explained, end result it's what matters, and it will be even worse on 4G/LTE. Battery life took a big hit going from 2g to 3g, worth it by the way, but if it's same again with 4g no thank you.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 02:18 AM
  17. 67Tucker's Avatar
    Well, a part of that success can be explained by the fact it's a GSM phone - as CDMA doesn't have the battery life reputation the former has. Secondly, it doesn't run a GPU like the higher end CDMA BlackBerry Storms, and Bolds. Thirdly, having a physical keyboard also helps in this department. Fourthly, GSM users have the option to not use 3G, CDMA users don't.

    However, howarmat has reported a 50-hr time before needing to charge his Incredible.
    You can't argue battery life to the faithful because it's all they have left to cling on to.
    alby4ever and JoelTruckerDude like this.
    01-10-11 02:35 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You can't argue battery life to the faithful because it's all they have left to cling on to.
    Yeah yeah, keep telling yourself that.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 03:35 AM
  19. andgee's Avatar
    Are the BRIC nations having 4G networks built are many of the Emerging markets (I ask as I simply don't know)? Putting all your R and D into Markets which are likely to shrink long term (population aging in the west and getting poorer) while the "developing" nations have huge growth (with more younger and becoming richer) may seem flawed possibly?

    I know I was bitten by the update to Digital from analogue back in the 90's, the move to colour screen Where battery life both took massive hits with, Java compatible phones, and then moving to smartphone all in the early noughties when there were few applications and memory was tiny .

    In the UK 3G became available years before the mass market took up the function and apart from downloading a bit quicker many services people thought would take off never did like video phone for example many people had free minutes and phones capable of doing. But people avoided due to the not wanting to use for social reasons(ie not comfortable appearing on screen,not where they say they are etc) or friends/family not able to use the technology.

    I cant count the amount of times I have had a amazing technology on my cutting edge phone which hardly any one else had or more importantly could afford to use!

    Look at MMS function has been there for years! The avg person has never if ever used it appears!


    IM moving over to BB as I have seen on the Wifes phone it does what I need rather than giving me multiple functions which are there for the marketing team but dont really live up to day to day usage.

    I work in the Tech industry for a manufacturer and I have learned from observation dont buy into a complex technology for a year or so unless you want to beta test keep having updates and possibly told thats in the next product release.

    For me I dont want to Beta test at the weekend or when im in the supermarket trying to check a price. I have A Nokia N900 which is like that Im happy to dabble and even use command line and script write. I even expect odd things to happen with the device. But I dont try to use as my first choice phone.

    Like others say unless you live in a certain area (and never move around out of that area) have a large wallet and happy to stay with a certain carrier 4G is unlikely to be available for a good while.

    For example in the city of London an area of the world with pretty good Data Signals. I still often find im jumping from 3.5 G to 3G to 2.5 G to 2G so how often would I get 4G? Often it is cheaper to jump over to wlan which I get free with my Internet provider anyhow in built up locations.
    If I go out in to the Suburbs of London quality of signal varies and if you go outside of the M25 areas will vary greatly.

    Personally I would hold fire on 4G let others pay out the premium costs for the service and put up with the phone battery failing just as they need to make that important call. I have been bitten to many times.

    But for those who wanna stay ahead go for it as if people dont take risk's and invest in new Technologies us laid back types would never get
    01-10-11 06:54 AM
  20. homer1475's Avatar
    Using that logic, how fast do you need anything to be? The speed limit is 55 mph (65 and 70 in some areas, but I digress), why do they build cars that go 2 and three times these speeds? Because that is what people want. You can be perfectly happy with your Chevy Cobalt, but some people want Corvettes.
    90% of the people who own corvettes are stuck up snobs who are compensating for the lack of size on a particular body part.(just my own observation living in a tourist town)

    Same can be said for anyone that needs anything flashy that they feel the need to show off to everyone(IE 4g phone's that don't even work yet(**** where I live we just got 3g on ATT and Verizon doesn't even work half the time 3g or 2g or any service period) just because I can). No matter what you buy now, something better will be out in the next month or so, its how technology is.

    For all those bashing android, what you have to realize is Android doesn't make or test phones, they make an OS. RIM on the other hand makes their phones and their OS's. Your comparing apples to oranges. That's like comparing windows to MAC's(yes I know its done all the time), Apple makes the computer as well as the OS, windows makes the OS, 2 totally different animals.

    Just my .02$
    01-10-11 07:10 AM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yeah, everybody is rushing to the "future proof" dual core 4G phones but they don't realise they'll still have the 10 year old battery technology in them, if not older.
    I wish the manufacturers, including Rim, would spend some cash to bring batteries in line with the technology, consumers might put up with it but business users (not necessarily bes or corporate but small businesses/self employed) can't afford to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 07:14 AM
  22. 1812dave's Avatar
    Yeah, everybody is rushing to the "future proof" dual core 4G phones but they don't realise they'll still have the 10 year old battery technology in them, if not older.
    I wish the manufacturers, including Rim, would spend some cash to bring batteries in line with the technology, consumers might put up with it but business users (not necessarily bes or corporate but small businesses/self employed) can't afford to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Ever hear of carrying a spare battery??? The cost is minimal, when compared to the price of the phone and it's monthly fee. (In the future batteries will last far longer, but for now, because people clamor for large bright screens and fast processors, battery life is very limited. The mfgrs are giving people what SELLS).
    01-10-11 09:51 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ever hear of carrying a spare battery??? The cost is minimal, when compared to the price of the phone and it's monthly fee. (In the future batteries will last far longer, but for now, because people clamor for large bright screens and fast processors, battery life is very limited. The mfgrs are giving people what SELLS).
    Yes, I know, but in reality making sure the spare battery is in the right pocket of the right trouser/jacket is a lot harder, not to mention charging it, you have to wait until the first one is charged before you can charge the other one, and that means, unless you have yet another charger and battery charger box, your phone will be in the charger twice the amount of time it should be.
    I went trough all this with my Storm 2.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-10-11 09:57 AM
  24. 1812dave's Avatar
    Yes, I know, but in reality making sure the spare battery is in the right pocket of the right trouser/jacket is a lot harder, not to mention charging it, you have to wait until the first one is charged before you can charge the other one, and that means, unless you have yet another charger and battery charger box, your phone will be in the charger twice the amount of time it should be.
    I went trough all this with my Storm 2.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I almost bought a second battery/charger for my Storm (because of all the battery-life talk I'd heard about smartphones), but I decided to just see how well it went with one battery. The Storm 1 I had didn't do very well, but our Storm2's get through every day without running "in the red". While not spectacular, it's adequate, so I'm not going to complicate things by having an extra battery. Having said that, if/when I buy a large screen Android this spring, I will have resigned myself to the fact I may absolutely REQUIRE a spare battery, to make it though the day. If the boot time isn't as glacially slow as my Storm2's is, it won't be as onerous to swap the battery out, from time to time.
    01-10-11 10:05 AM
  25. corymcnutt's Avatar
    Yes, I know, but in reality making sure the spare battery is in the right pocket of the right trouser/jacket is a lot harder, not to mention charging it, you have to wait until the first one is charged before you can charge the other one, and that means, unless you have yet another charger and battery charger box, your phone will be in the charger twice the amount of time it should be.
    I went trough all this with my Storm 2.
    Instead of 1100 mAh or 1400 mAh batteries why can't they just make the phones slighter thicker and put in a 1950 mAh size battery?
    01-10-11 10:07 AM
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