[ichat]

Probably for the security and keyboard?

Question is, are consumers moving towards phones with virtual keyboards?

And, does the average consumer need or even care about 007, Mission Impossible, Man From U.N.C.L.E. type security on their smartphones???

Or, do they want the newest/coolest?


War Is All We Know

Depends on the customer. I personally care about security on my phone and believe it or not, I used to be iPhone guy before. I just personally trust blackberry because the highest rank of people in this world use a BlackBerry. That is, mostly. I just can't let android or iphone stalk me. They have been caught but the companies never, ever will stop stalking their users.

[SaintThomasAquinas]

I would have to go back and Google the News Articles but the way I remember it was during Obama's Presidential Campaign his Campaign Tech people chose the Blackberry Platform. Obama liked his Blackberry and was already familiar with it so he wanted to continue to use it rather than migrate to the Sectera device made by General Dynamics I believe. So a cencession was made that for all official Government Communications he would carry and use the Sectera device as mandated, but he was free to keep his Blackberry and use that for all Communications of a personal nature.

[ichat]

I would have to go back and Google the News Articles but the way I remember it was during Obama's Presidential Campaign his Campaign Tech people chose the Blackberry Platform. Obama liked his Blackberry and was already familiar with it so he wanted to continue to use it rather than migrate to the Sectera device made by General Dynamics I believe. So a cencession was made that for all official Government Communications he would carry and use the Sectera device as mandated, but he was free to keep his Blackberry and use that for all Communications of a personal nature.

So if BB wasn't exacty secure, he would be carrying that sectera edge? I personally find that phone terrible. Anyone know which BB is he rocking right now?

[tack]

Every government person I know, including military, carries a BB. Security, security, security. Even if he wanted to change, I don't think he would be allow due to that one issue.

[SaintThomasAquinas]

If the President wishes to communicate with Cabinet members and staffers, he needs to carry a device that is uniformly used behind government firewalls. The only device that is currently used uniformly behind government firewalls through BES is the BB.

He personally uses Apple products....I don't know this personally, of course, but he has mentioned it in interviews.

He had a BB as a personal choice before he was elected. He uses a BB now because it is the only platform with which he can communicate throughout the government.

I am *NOT* speaking right now of the future of other platforms coming behind firewalls. I am also *NOT* speaking of sandboxed projects using other platforms. I am speaking of the simple fact that to communicate across the government one must be on BES behind government firewalls, and currently that means BB.

So initially it was a personal choice. Now it's a necessity.

He might be using a Sectera Edge for ultra secure communications that even BB cannot handle. Who knows. He may later use an iPhone for personal use when he leaves office. Who knows. Currently the federal government uses BBerries on BES.

This is the best explanation so far.

I work in Government IT for that twelve years and while I am not an e-mail administrator but rather a Unix/Linux/Storage admin I work with and support other groups such as the Network and e-mail groups in our Enterprise. We have in my Organization close to 2,000 Blackberry Handhels and many BES servers to support them. Our Exhange e-mail user count is somewhere around 250,000. I can say that the original statement that in order to communicate across the Government you have to be on BES behind a Firewall is incorrect. The "Government" is comprised of hundreds of different entities such as State Dept., IRS, Homeland Security, FAA, HUD, etc. and each has its own domain and own infrastructure and own e-mail servers. There is no Universal singular Government e-mail network. So the way it works is you have a firewalled segment of your Network referred to as "The DMZ" you put devices that need to communicate with the Internet such as web, e-mail, and BES servers in the DMZ. You create Firewall rules which explicitly allow certain communications in and out of the DMZ to a specific server on a given network port. The only way someone can e-mail from the State Dept. say to someone at the IRS or Whitehouse would be to send the e-mail traffic out to the Internet and route it to their domain and e-mail servers. There are many [again perhaps thousands or hundreds of vendors] products both hardware and software based that could handle encrypting e-mails between the author and recipient. Here we use a hardware device made by McAfee called IronMail which handles email security.

So e-mail is not specific to a given platform, OS, or phone just as accessing the Internet is not accessable through only one vendors platform or device. Obama likes or at least we know liked his Blackberry and was familiar with it and made the decision to stick with it not out of necessity but rather personal preference.

[_StephenBB81]

I don't think anybody has said that BlackBerry's are useless but they are lagging behind in what the general consumer wants or sees as cool. Apps!

Many have said
"RIP RIM", "They are dead" "Anyone who thinks they can recover is delusional" "Anyone who believes what the co CEO's say is delusional" "RIM should abandon their OS and go Android / Windows" and so on.

[qbnkelt]

I work in Government IT for that twelve years and while I am not an e-mail administrator but rather a Unix/Linux/Storage admin I work with and support other groups such as the Network and e-mail groups in our Enterprise. We have in my Organization close to 2,000 Blackberry Handhels and many BES servers to support them. Our Exhange e-mail user count is somewhere around 250,000. I can say that the original statement that in order to communicate across the Government you have to be on BES behind a Firewall is incorrect. The "Government" is comprised of hundreds of different entities such as State Dept., IRS, Homeland Security, FAA, HUD, etc. and each has its own domain and own infrastructure and own e-mail servers. There is no Universal singular Government e-mail network. So the way it works is you have a firewalled segment of your Network referred to as "The DMZ" you put devices that need to communicate with the Internet such as web, e-mail, and BES servers in the DMZ. You create Firewall rules which explicitly allow certain communications in and out of the DMZ to a specific server on a given network port. The only way someone can e-mail from the State Dept. say to someone at the IRS or Whitehouse would be to send the e-mail traffic out to the Internet and route it to their domain and e-mail servers. There are many [again perhaps thousands or hundreds of vendors] products both hardware and software based that could handle encrypting e-mails between the author and recipient. Here we use a hardware device made by McAfee called IronMail which handles email security.

So e-mail is not specific to a given platform, OS, or phone just as accessing the Internet is not accessable through only one vendors platform or device. Obama likes or at least we know liked his Blackberry and was familiar with it and made the decision to stick with it not out of necessity but rather personal preference.

I work with the US federal government, manage the wireless contract for my agency, and manage programs and systems behind our firewall. I am familiar with our DMZs (we have more than one specific to each unit's mission.)
I am referring specifically to the use of handheld devices, not to email traffic. Since the original post dealt with the use of Blackberries I shortened my response and should have spoken to the use of handheld devices within those components with whom the President would communicate. In those instances, behind US government firewalls, the wireless handheld that is in use the BB controlled via BES.

[_StephenBB81]

So let me get this straight, your basically saying that if you strip everything away that makes these phones what they are, then Blackberry is better? Kinda like saying if you strip certain things away from my television (remote, internet access, color, etc.), it's no better than a b/w tv. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

SORRY but yes it does behind the government firewall

The Only Android device to be approved by the US DOD was a Dell running Android 2.2, with marketplace stripped out, all web browsing running through a proxy (which will slow it down like RIM products running through the NOC) AND even with that the Android devices are still not permitted to access classified information


as consumers you don't need to make that choice
as a government official you do

[qbnkelt]

While not *entirely* accurate, still a good explaination. And those Sectera devices are just plain terrible, yet they still have their niche.

Explain to me Sith. I greatly value your input.

[ichat]

I work in Government IT for that twelve years and while I am not an e-mail administrator but rather a Unix/Linux/Storage admin I work with and support other groups such as the Network and e-mail groups in our Enterprise. We have in my Organization close to 2,000 Blackberry Handhels and many BES servers to support them. Our Exhange e-mail user count is somewhere around 250,000. I can say that the original statement that in order to communicate across the Government you have to be on BES behind a Firewall is incorrect. The "Government" is comprised of hundreds of different entities such as State Dept., IRS, Homeland Security, FAA, HUD, etc. and each has its own domain and own infrastructure and own e-mail servers. There is no Universal singular Government e-mail network. So the way it works is you have a firewalled segment of your Network referred to as "The DMZ" you put devices that need to communicate with the Internet such as web, e-mail, and BES servers in the DMZ. You create Firewall rules which explicitly allow certain communications in and out of the DMZ to a specific server on a given network port. The only way someone can e-mail from the State Dept. say to someone at the IRS or Whitehouse would be to send the e-mail traffic out to the Internet and route it to their domain and e-mail servers. There are many [again perhaps thousands or hundreds of vendors] products both hardware and software based that could handle encrypting e-mails between the author and recipient. Here we use a hardware device made by McAfee called IronMail which handles email security.

So e-mail is not specific to a given platform, OS, or phone just as accessing the Internet is not accessable through only one vendors platform or device. Obama likes or at least we know liked his Blackberry and was familiar with it and made the decision to stick with it not out of necessity but rather personal preference.

I see. But isn't the encrypted line or whatever the best between a BB and the server than another device and the server?

[ichat]

Let's get a bit technical here. Can someone explain us the difference in securty protocol between blackberry, android, iOS and what is meant to be the best (in security) sectera edge?

[bostonnerd]

Let's get a bit technical here. Can someone explain us the difference in securty protocol between blackberry, android, iOS and what is meant to be the best (in security) sectera edge?

Copy and paste from various sites. Too busy to write up my own, but this should give you some insight

iPhone and Android use HTTPS to the Exchange server (ie EAS):
Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure (HTTPS) is a combination of Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) with SSL/TLS protocol. It provides encrypted communication and secure identification of a network web server. HTTPS connections are often used for payment transactions on the World Wide Web and for sensitive transactions in corporate information systems.

Blackberry to BES:
The BlackBerry� Enterprise Solution uses a two-key Triple DES encryption algorithm to create message keys and master encryption keys. In each of three iterations of the DES algorithm, the first of two 56-bit keys in outer CBC mode encrypts the data, the second key decrypts the data, and then the first key encrypts the data again. For more information, see Federal Information Processing Standard - FIPS PUB 81 [3].

The BlackBerry Enterprise Solution stores the message keys and master encryption keys as 128-bit long binary strings, with each parity bit in the least significant bit of each of the 8 bytes of key data. The message keys and master encryption keys have overall key lengths of 112 bits and include 16 bits of parity data.

Sectera Edge:
Advanced Security Features
Secure wireless access to the SIPRNET and NIPRNET
DoD PKI enabled Common Access Card (CAC) support
Supports DoD 8100.2 requirements
Type 1 encrypted storage of classified data
Can be used inside closed areas with �SCIF-Friendly� feature

[avt123]

You can't compare a blackberry with an iphone. Ones a workhorse and the other is a multi-media

Well, you just compared them. And the iPhone is a workhorse as well, it depends how you use it. Some people use their iPhones to run their life/business just like others use their BBs to do the same.

What works for you may not work for others and vice versa. The workhorse comment works both ways.

[NJPhilliesPhan]

It seems like the over 40 crowd are the ones that are clinging to their Blackberries.

[bostonnerd]

It seems like the over 40 crowd are the ones that are clinging to their Blackberries.

LoL - well I'm definitely over 40, but "clinging" gives the wrong connotation. I use an iPhone and a BB daily at work. It really boils down to:
* Need the best implementation of Outlook/Exchange that you can put in your pocket....it's a BB on BES.
* Don't need that level of integration at work use an iPhone on EAS.

When I'm on extended travel for business, it's the BB that gets all the use and the iPhone is more or less relegated to an iPod status.

If I'm around the office campus during the day, the iPhone is just good enough for email and calender functions.

[Sith_Apprentice]

So if BB wasn't exacty secure, he would be carrying that sectera edge? I personally find that phone terrible. Anyone know which BB is he rocking right now?

There is a TON of misconception about BlackBerry security and how/why its used. RIM does an excellent job with end to end security and encryption. However, for several reasons as well, BlackBerry is not rated for classified communications. It can handle UP to that level, but nothing crossing that line. That is where the Sectera Edge (and devices like it) come in. They are suite B approved, and while the BlackBerry can be suite B compliant, it has never been approved by NSA (and likely never will). The NOC traffic is routed through a company in a foreign power, not gonna happen. (and that is only one reason). There are many smartphones in this world, and a wide array of "security" on them. You have a continuum that the government sees with the security.

At the low end
WP7
Android - native
iOS - native

iOS - Good Mobile installed
Then you have a "line in the sand" if you will where these devices are approved for use within the government because they are deemed "secure enough".
Android - Good Mobile installed
Windows Mobile 6.5 - Good Mobile installed


BlackBerry devices on BES
Then you have the classified line. Nothing classified on any devices below this line
Sectera Edge - and others like it

[Sith_Apprentice]

Copy and paste from various sites. Too busy to write up my own, but this should give you some insight

iPhone and Android use HTTPS to the Exchange server (ie EAS):
Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure (HTTPS) is a combination of Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) with SSL/TLS protocol. It provides encrypted communication and secure identification of a network web server. HTTPS connections are often used for payment transactions on the World Wide Web and for sensitive transactions in corporate information systems.

Blackberry to BES:
The BlackBerry� Enterprise Solution uses a two-key Triple DES encryption algorithm to create message keys and master encryption keys. In each of three iterations of the DES algorithm, the first of two 56-bit keys in outer CBC mode encrypts the data, the second key decrypts the data, and then the first key encrypts the data again. For more information, see Federal Information Processing Standard - FIPS PUB 81 [3].

The BlackBerry Enterprise Solution stores the message keys and master encryption keys as 128-bit long binary strings, with each parity bit in the least significant bit of each of the 8 bytes of key data. The message keys and master encryption keys have overall key lengths of 112 bits and include 16 bits of parity data.

Sectera Edge:
Advanced Security Features
Secure wireless access to the SIPRNET and NIPRNET
DoD PKI enabled Common Access Card (CAC) support
Supports DoD 8100.2 requirements
Type 1 encrypted storage of classified data
Can be used inside closed areas with �SCIF-Friendly� feature

That information on BES is very outdated. While TDES is still supported, everyone in government has gone to AES256. BBs also support DoD PKI CAC and secure access to NIPRNET. (as well as whole disk encryption, DoD approved wipe, etc etc etc.)

[Sith_Apprentice]

It seems like the over 40 crowd are the ones that are clinging to their Blackberries.

LOL. Well I am not even 30 yet.. .dont I feel like the odd man out?

[_StephenBB81]

It seems like the over 40 crowd are the ones that are clinging to their Blackberries.

Yet in the UK it is the teen demographic leading BlackBerry sales

And I certainly am Not over 40, having just left my 20's less than that many days ago

[bostonnerd]

That information on BES is very outdated. While TDES is still supported, everyone in government has gone to AES256. BBs also support DoD PKI CAC and secure access to NIPRNET. (as well as whole disk encryption, DoD approved wipe, etc etc etc.)

Thanks for that. Didn't realize NIPRNET access had been implemented. Although I work for a large High Tech company, our security requirements stringent but are not up to the levels required by DOD and NSA.

[sleepngbear]

I wouldn't assess the success or value of toilet paper based on what that clown uses, never mind a smart phone. Nonetheless, it certainly isn't a bad thing that a Berry is what they let him show off in public.

[Sith_Apprentice]

Thanks for that. Didn't realize NIPRNET access had been implemented. Although I work for a large High Tech company, our security requirements stringent but are not up to the levels required by DOD and NSA.

NIPRNET access has been available through the BlackBerry browser for several years now. Keep in mind the e-mail that the devices get rides the NIPR lol

[13echo4]

My simplest answer. Its free to him and there's enough angry people throwing things at him all day he doesn't need a bird on his phone doing it as well. Lol.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[West Coast Flavor]

Cause he's OLD!!!

Dude is pushing 50 bro.

[llllBULLSEYE]

Maybe I'm going crazy, but I see more teenagers on their Blackberry's then iphone/Android combine. Or is that just a New York thing