01-17-14 08:21 PM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Will the app gap be closed? Or will people just moan and complain about them not being native apps?

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    Last time you made a thread, you proclaimed that 10.2.1 should have been enough for most people.

    I see that you thought about why that wasn't true, and now made a new thread.
    I like that there is a certain evolution in your train of thought, but there is still a way to go apparently.

    Where one should probably agree with you, is that a direct Google Play access would definitely help to get apps onto the devices.
    What you apparently fail to realise, is that not having native apps is still a very legitimate complaint though.

    When I buy an iPhone, an Android or a WP, I will get native apps, and native apps only.
    The only exception is BB10.
    And I am not seeing why that would be moaning...
    But at least you understood that 10.2.1 itself is not enough.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-17-14 12:31 PM
  2. mornhavon's Avatar
    Can we go back to the drawing board with this Andoid lag debate? Let's keep it civil and logical. Here are my thoughts:

    Skinned variations of Android are still considered to be "Android", and will certainly be considered "Android devices" by the general public. If the Andoid version is drastically forked to the extent that Google doesn't allow Play Services to be installed on it, that's an entirely different debate.

    90%+ of people running Android are running it with some form of OEM skin on top of it, usually slowing things down. While it's a completely valid point to say that stock Android isn't like that, most people are, fairly, judging Android based on the majority of devices on the market.

    Many Android manufacturers, like Samsung (which doesn't make up 95% of Android, it's less than 40% of worldwide Android sales, but it's definitely the largest player at the moment) add sloppy code, poor skins and pointless software features for the purpose of marketing and brand differentiation. Not all manufacturer modifications are bad (just most), the camera software from most OEMs take better pictures than stock Android for instance, though that will hopefully change with the upcoming camera API. If there is lag on a modern mid-high end Android device, it's almost always the OEM add-ons (bloat) that is to blame.

    When individuals take phones that are lagging and install a stable, recent version of stock Android designed for that phone, the lag almost always disappears. Stock Android can run smoothly on almost anything, even the Nexus S (over 3 years old) with a single 1 Ghz CPU and 512 MB RAM runs stock Android quite smoothly.

    "Lag" is not only subjective, but varies from one OEM device to the next. My friend's Galaxy S3, running all of Samsung's bloat for nearly 2 years now, is still running smoothly. I've heard that the Galaxy S4, aside from the terrible multi-window feature and buggy gallery app, runs quite smoothly after Samsung fixed most of the software lag with an update.

    There is hope for Android lag, which is a very real issue for OEM devices. Nexus devices are becoming more common, Motorola is leading the charge for a near-stock Android experience (with additions that are actually useful), and OEMs are starting to streamline their additions, even Samsung's next interface is supposed to specifically address lag.

    If you've used a modern Android device and noticed lag, and if you want to see what "pure" Android is, try a Nexus 4/5/7 or Moto X. It will show you what Android is actually capable of when it's not getting knee-capped by OEMs.
    Unbiased Tech, ikalinin and bbhuh like this.
    01-17-14 12:35 PM
  3. ikalinin's Avatar
    Can we go back to the drawing board with this Andoid lag debate? Let's keep it civil and logical. Here are my thoughts:

    Skinned variations of Android are still considered to be "Android", and will certainly be considered "Android devices" by the general public. If the Andoid version is drastically forked to the extent that Google doesn't allow Play Services to be installed on it, that's an entirely different debate.
    great statement right there.

    90%+ of people running Android are running it with some form of OEM skin on top of it, usually slowing things down. While it's a completely valid point to say that stock Android isn't like that, most people are, fairly, judging Android based on the majority of devices on the market.
    correct. "most" people want those features or some type of skin UI on it.


    Many Android manufacturers, like Samsung (which doesn't make up 95% of Android, it's less than 40% of worldwide Android sales, but it's definitely the largest player at the moment) add sloppy code, poor skins and pointless software features for the purpose of marketing and brand differentiation. Not all manufacturer modifications are bad (just most), the camera software from most OEMs take better pictures than stock Android for instance, though that will hopefully change with the upcoming camera API. If there is lag on a modern mid-high end Android device, it's almost always the OEM add-ons (bloat) that is to blame.
    here is where i got my 95%. just wanted to cite my source:
    Samsung owns Android, captures 95% of global Android smartphone profits | VentureBeat | Business | by John Koetsier


    When individuals take phones that are lagging and install a stable, recent version of stock Android designed for that phone, the lag almost always disappears. Stock Android can run smoothly on almost anything, even the Nexus S (over 3 years old) with a single 1 Ghz CPU and 512 MB RAM runs stock Android quite smoothly.

    "Lag" is not only subjective, but varies from one OEM device to the next. My friend's Galaxy S3, running all of Samsung's bloat for nearly 2 years now, is still running smoothly. I've heard that the Galaxy S4, aside from the terrible multi-window feature and buggy gallery app, runs quite smoothly after Samsung fixed most of the software lag with an update.

    There is hope for Android lag, which is a very real issue for OEM devices. Nexus devices are becoming more common, Motorola is leading the charge for a near-stock Android experience (with additions that are actually useful), and OEMs are starting to streamline their additions, even Samsung's next interface is supposed to specifically address lag.

    If you've used a modern Android device and noticed lag, and if you want to see what "pure" Android is, try a Nexus 4/5/7 or Moto X. It will show you what Android is actually capable of when it's not getting knee-capped by OEMs.
    that may be true, but i cannot speak for experiences that i haven't experienced. the avg Android(based) device that's within my reach, is a samsung note, galaxy S3-4, etc.. so i've played with those. thats how my opinions and resolutions where mentioned in my previous comments.
    01-17-14 12:49 PM
  4. bbnsth's Avatar
    oh my goodness....
    these are still ANDROID devices. if samsung loads more stuff to their phone that makes them lag, its still the OS that lags.
    android BASED phones still lag because of the OS. software runs on top of the OS.

    to put into PC perspective: we're not debating DOS vs WINDOWS, we are debating Adobe on Windows vs Windows w/out adobe.
    there is no ignorance.

    and BB sells -1, -2, -3 etc.. they are variants. the OS doesn't lag because its a BETTER OS! Verizon still loads its bloatware on its BB variant, Sprint on theirs, ATT on theirs, etc.. but they are still BB devices.. THAT is the debate. Android phones tend to lag, just google android lag. we can dig deeper and say android-based phones tend to lag. which is fine.. it doesnt make it any less or more of an android. android is the OS which lets you run other things on top of it.
    that is a horrible example with the pc installing adobe, and it demonstrate your lack of knowledge in this area that you want to argue about. when you install adobe in your pc, is adobe always running? does it run in the background if its not opened? touchwiz is always active until you take it off in samsung phone, just like some of their bloatware. if adobe was to be ran once window start and u can't turn it off is it another story.

    think of it like this, if you install candy crush in any android, does it lag your phone when its not on? just like adobe won't lag your pc when its on. it will only lag when your pc does not have enough ram or speed to support it.

    btw, even touchwiz does not lag on s4. please post a video of your sister or whoever you know with s4 and please show us how laggy it gets. since you keep talking about it always lag. i would love to see it. if it lag so bad u think people would buy android phone? u think everyone won't hate it? you think u just discovered something that no one knows about? and everyone is ignorance to the fact?
    Unbiased Tech and bbhuh like this.
    01-17-14 12:57 PM
  5. aha's Avatar
    It will be enough for me.... 10.2.1 and Z30 is already enough for me, but Google Play Service will make it even more enough...

    Posted via CB10 with Z30 on 10.2.1.1925+1926 radio
    01-17-14 01:00 PM
  6. ikalinin's Avatar
    that is a horrible example with the pc installing adobe, and it demonstrate your lack of knowledge in this area that you want to argue about. when you install adobe in your pc, is adobe always running? does it run in the background if its not opened? touchwiz is always active until you take it off in samsung phone, just like some of their bloatware. if adobe was to be ran once window start and u can't turn it off is it another story.

    think of it like this, if you install candy crush in any android, does it lag your phone when its not on? just like adobe won't lag your pc when its on. it will only lag when your pc does not have enough ram or speed to support it.

    btw, even touchwiz does not lag on s4. please post a video of your sister or whoever you know with s4 and please show us how laggy it gets. since you keep talking about it always lag. i would love to see it. if it lag so bad u think people would buy android phone? u think everyone won't hate it? you think u just discovered something that no one knows about? and everyone is ignorance to the fact?

    i understand, i was simply trying to say that software runs on top of the OS. it doesnt have to be adobe, i was just using it at the moment.
    and its not just touchwiz. in the past, other "skins" and softwares made androids lag. i mean, the articles on android lag are endless.

    yes, its a generalization. but we're speaking generally since this is a BlackBerry forum. generally speaking, most androids that i ran into in the store (verizon) since thats my carrier, the Android devices have a lag from pane to pane, and overall slow feeling.

    i dont have my sis video, but i searched youtube s4 touchwiz lag. got this
    01-17-14 01:08 PM
  7. mornhavon's Avatar
    "most" people want those features or some type of skin UI on it.
    We'll agree to disagree. I believe that most people benefited from additional features or a skinned UI a few years ago (Gingerbread era and prior to it), but now a lot of the non-stock features/UI (with some exclusions like the camera app) are more for setting the OEM apart from the rest than anything to do with the consumer's experience.

    here is where i got my 95%. just wanted to cite my source
    2013 was a very good year for Samsung's mobile profits. Although they sell less than 40% of the Android devices, they take the lion's share of Android device profits. This seems to be slowly changing, but it's not easy to take on a giant that has deep pockets for marketing and produces nearly all of their own components. Other OEMs are depending on this situation improving down the road, which it's likely to do. If device profits were all that were considered for smartphone market share, unfortunately Apple & Samsung would own 98% of that chart, and BlackBerry wouldn't even be close to being on it.

    that may be true, but i cannot speak for experiences that i haven't experienced. the avg Android(based) device that's within my reach, is a samsung note, galaxy S3-4, etc.. so i've played with those. thats how my opinions and resolutions where mentioned in my previous comments.
    I understand and appreciate you sharing your experiences, that's the only way that things will improve, and I think that OEMs are finally getting the message. Just understand that when some people make broad-brush statements about "Android" in general, and think that lag is an inherant flaw of Android, they're often disappointed with the shell, not the core. We just need more OEMs to pay attention to the shell.

    the articles on android lag are endless.
    To be fair, there are also many complaints of BB10 lag. Absolutely, there are far more complaints about Android, which makes sense since there are literally 300x more Android devices on the planet than there are BB10 devices, and "Android" dates back many years and runs on infinite hardware & software variations, whereas BB10 isn't even a year old and runs on 4 sets of BlackBerry-selected hardware where BlackBerry has nearly complete control of the software. Please don't just accept it as fact that all Android devices lag, there are some very good implementations of Android out there.
    01-17-14 01:35 PM
  8. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Not unless BlackBerry has a solid 3rd position will developers bother making their apps native. As long as the app runs smoothly and doesn't crash I don't really care if it's native to be honest.

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    I think it depends. Although iOS has a global market share of 12.9%, innovative developers bring their apps to iOS first, followed by Android months later. Or, just as now as I think about it, maybe innovative apps that don't launch on iOS but Android first, don't get any publicity at all?

    Posted via CB10
    01-17-14 01:43 PM
  9. bp3dots's Avatar
    oh my goodness....
    these are still ANDROID devices. if samsung loads more stuff to their phone that makes them lag, its still the OS that lags.
    android BASED phones still lag because of the OS. software runs on top of the OS.

    to put into PC perspective: we're not debating DOS vs WINDOWS, we are debating Adobe on Windows vs Windows w/out adobe.
    there is no ignorance.

    and BB sells -1, -2, -3 etc.. they are variants. the OS doesn't lag because its a BETTER OS! Verizon still loads its bloatware on its BB variant, Sprint on theirs, ATT on theirs, etc.. but they are still BB devices.. THAT is the debate. Android phones tend to lag, just google android lag. we can dig deeper and say android-based phones tend to lag. which is fine.. it doesnt make it any less or more of an android. android is the OS which lets you run other things on top of it.
    You seem to understand the difference between software and the actual OS, but your argument still requires the two to be the same thing. If the software is different than the OS, and the software is what causes the lag, then the OS isn't laggy, the software is. If Adobe makes Windows lag when its installed, the problem is Adobe, not Windows.

    There is a diffference between carrier bloatware, and fully integrated software overlays like Touchwiz.

    If you decide to actually educate yourself about the topics on which you would like to debate, you would make a lot more sense. What you're saying now is just a bunch of incorrect statements.

    To use a car example (and drive Tre crazy if he sees):

    A Corvette engine in a Corvette body = Stock Android.
    A Corvette engine in an Silverado 3500 body = Touchwiz skinned Android.

    The drop in performance between the two isn't the engine's fault, it's the fault of the body it's driving that isn't nearly as effecient as the intended one.
    01-17-14 03:01 PM
  10. playbookster's Avatar
    Last time you made a thread, you proclaimed that 10.2.1 should have been enough for most people.

    I see that you thought about why that wasn't true, and now made a new thread.
    I like that there is a certain evolution in your train of thought, but there is still a way to go apparently.

    Where one should probably agree with you, is that a direct Google Play access would definitely help to get apps onto the devices.
    What you apparently fail to realise, is that not having native apps is still a very legitimate complaint though.

    When I buy an iPhone, an Android or a WP, I will get native apps, and native apps only.
    The only exception is BB10.
    And I am not seeing why that would be moaning...
    But at least you understood that 10.2.1 itself is not enough.

    Posted via CB10
    Nope. Doesn't make a difference to me. I got the apps I wanted without gsf. But for the people that complained, would getting gsf be enough?

    C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange
    01-17-14 03:24 PM
  11. BuffaloMadMan's Avatar
    It will never happen officially because it has to go through certification. There is certain criteria that must be met that bb10 will never be able to meet unless it drops their OS for android. On top of that google agreeing to put their brand on an os that runs it through a run time is not the smartest thing to do combined with low market share makes it a no brainer. Let's say for example it happens and a BB user tries to download an app and it crashes or won't install. Whos brand gets tarnished? Who has to deal with the support? Another thing is how would paying for apps be handled? Would BB even want to allow a store where they would make zero money off of it because if it happens no way google would pay BB a percentage for the apps bought. There are tons of questions and risks that at this time wouldnt benefit Google at all. They would probably invest more money trying to make it work on BB than what they would make if they allow it. This isn't just a flip of the switch there you go you have the play store. Too many risks which is pretty obvious although I do understand why a BB user would hope but I just don't see it. Google is about making money and getting people to use the internet its not a charity business

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    01-17-14 08:01 PM
  12. BuffaloMadMan's Avatar
    And everyone talking about android lagging, didn't Kevin just post about how his sister in laws bb10 device lags and is pretty much unusable? And then in the comments there were tons of people saying the same thing. Its crazy that you have to delete a messaging thread just to make it not lag as much.

    Now on a real note let's just know that all software is imperfect and bb 10, android, iOS, and wp8 all can have the occasional hiccup here and there from my experience so let's not throw stones.....

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    bbhuh and Saiga like this.
    01-17-14 08:21 PM
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