[sleepngbear]

Not really. It only further proves what I've been trying to tell him. He simply doesn't realize what an actual Android phone is.

Maybe someday he will try one out for himself.

So if it's laggy its not an actual Android phone? That's the message I'm getting here. Is the Galaxy Nexus not an actual Android phone? How is Joe Consumer supposed to know the difference? All those market share analyses don't seem to make a distinction. No such fragmentation on BB10 devices --. If anything that seems like another good argument for Android apps on BB10 to me.

[ikalinin]

There is no personal experience or opinion about it. You simply haven't experienced a Android phone yet. You can keep mentioning how laggy the Samsung Galaxy S4 is as much as you'd like, but that isn't an Android phone.
Hopefully I've explained things well enough and you understand what I'm trying to tell you.

wow. i really dont want to keep this conversation going.. but i just have to say that Android would NOT be android without Samsung.
so you can go into specifics as much as you want, but the fact is, that Android is 95% Samsung! and Android is only as good as its #1 seller.. and quite frankly, with no #2.

if Samsung makes it lag, then the OS needs MORE work. but its STILL AN ANDROID that LAGS...
unless you're implying that if BlackBerry starts to install Google Play on their phones, and the BB10 phones start to LAG, you will say NO, the Z30 is a BB10 BASED phone.. its not a TRUE BlackBerry... C'mon man!!!

i'm done with this. you can flip flop your words all you want. Android is an OPERATING SYSTEM. not a phone.

[ikalinin]

So if it's laggy its not an actual Android phone? That's the message I'm getting here. Is the Galaxy Nexus not an actual Android phone? How is Joe Consumer supposed to know the difference? All those market share analyses don't seem to make a distinction. No such fragmentation on BB10 devices --. If anything that seems like another good argument for Android apps on BB10 to me.

thank you! i'm glad i'm not alone here.

[Saiga]

So if it's laggy its not an actual Android phone? That's the message I'm getting here. Is the Galaxy Nexus not an actual Android phone?

Samsung or Google?

Let's see, the Google Galaxy Nexus included free mobile hotspot built-in, Google Wallet, and had zero carrier bloatware apps.

The Samsung Galaxy Nexus had the free mobile hot spot feature removed and replaced with Verizon's service that costs a monthly subscription fee to use. Verizon also decided that they would remove Google Wallet and pre install two of their own applications instead.

Of course, the Google Galaxy Nexus got frequent updates while the Samsung Galaxy Nexus was stuck for six months on a horrible version of ICS that was plagued with tons of issues.

You tell me, which phone ran Android? Do you think the Android OS includes My Verizon and Verizon's tethering service?

What's funny is I always hated Android until I used a real Android phone without any manufacture or carrier modifications. The modifications were what was ruining Android for me. The link to my really old post shows that. I was very frustrated with Android because of modifications. Just like when someone says Android lags just because of TouchWiz.

I was wrong for thinking the way I used to think about Android without ever actually trying it.

[Saiga]

wow. i really dont want to keep this conversation going.. but i just have to say that Android would NOT be android without Samsung.
so you can go into specifics as much as you want, but the fact is, that Android is 95% Samsung! and Android is only as good as its #1 seller.. and quite frankly, with no #2.

if Samsung makes it lag, then the OS needs MORE work. but its STILL AN ANDROID that LAGS...
unless you're implying that if BlackBerry starts to install Google Play on their phones, and the BB10 phones start to LAG, you will say NO, the Z30 is a BB10 BASED phone.. its not a TRUE BlackBerry... C'mon man!!!

i'm done with this. you can flip flop your words all you want. Android is an OPERATING SYSTEM. not a phone.

Android doesn't include a eyeball scroller though. Lol

Deep down, you know that I'm right. I'm not even the first person here who has tried to explain this to you. You can continue to think whatever you'd like though.

Think about this for a moment. What if a manufacture like Samsung was interested in licensing BlackBerry 10. And what if Samsung took the base BB10 OS and loaded it up with new features and tons of modifications that caused lagged?

That is exactly what Samsung and other OEMs do to Android.

[Unbiased Tech]

Sorry, I'm as anti-Android as anybody, but I don't get this. If you don't want Google apps or services on your phone, you don't have to install them. But your BB10 phone won't be anything less than it currently is either way. Why would you want to get rid of your phone because it can do more stuff that you don't need or want, but it still does everything it always did if you're already happy with what it always did?

I don't believe you get what I'm saying. If BB INTEGRATES Google Play and Google Services, then what does that do to the device? It makes it a Google byproduct, as I mentioned before one of the reasons I didn't like Android was because of all of those services. Also with this runtime that BB is pushing very hard the ratio of BB to Android apps will probably become lopsided in the Android direction. This is just the beginning and I want no parts of a Google product.

[ikalinin]

Android doesn't include a eyeball scroller though. Lol

Deep down, you know that I'm right. I'm not even the first person here who has tried to explain this to you. You can continue to think whatever you'd like though.

Think about this for a moment. What if a manufacture like Samsung was interested in licensing BlackBerry 10. And what if Samsung took the base BB10 OS and loaded it up with new features and tons of modifications that caused lagged?

That is exactly what Samsung and other OEMs do to Android.

again, just because BB10 has an android runtime, it doesnt make it a BB10 based phone. its still a BB

just because Lenovo put swipe features, huge webcam capabilities, and more features into a PC running WIN8, guess what.. its still a WINDOWS PC.

ok ok.. i wish android based phones would stop lagging so much.. <--- better?

we totally hijacked this tread.

to get back on point, if Google Play services will make more BB users happy, they should do it.

[BobWalker]

Can you install android launcher too?

Yes, but I don't care. The Android UI doesn't appeal to me, and Android apps suck compared to native. There's not one single app that I miss.

I will say that some Android apps run more smoothly on BB10 when launched from an Android launcher instead of the QNX launcher for some reason.

[Unbiased Tech]

wow. i really dont want to keep this conversation going.. but i just have to say that Android would NOT be android without Samsung.
so you can go into specifics as much as you want, but the fact is, that Android is 95% Samsung! and Android is only as good as its #1 seller.. and quite frankly, with no #2.

if Samsung makes it lag, then the OS needs MORE work. but its STILL AN ANDROID that LAGS...
unless you're implying that if BlackBerry starts to install Google Play on their phones, and the BB10 phones start to LAG, you will say NO, the Z30 is a BB10 BASED phone.. its not a TRUE BlackBerry... C'mon man!!!

i'm done with this. you can flip flop your words all you want. Android is an OPERATING SYSTEM. not a phone.

Oh come on now are remotely familiar with software? Each Android OEM comes up with their own skin or layer of software and features on top of core Android. With a surplus of features that were not intended specifically to be incorporated in the root level code of an Android os build (Kit Kat for example) it leads to benefits and problems. For example, Samsung's Touchwiz Multi-Window is not available on an Android device running pure (or Vanilla) Android. Only devices running Samsun's Touchwiz UI/UX have access to these features. Same with "Knock on" from LG's skin or "Blinkfeed from HTC's Sense 5-5.5.

The aforementioned features listed above are unique to their respective OEM's skin. Android is open source and heavily customizable close to the root level which is why these features can be added out of the box or appear a certain way because it is Linux/Unix based. Its essentially the same as Bloatware on PCs or carrier added software.A slow PC becomes much faster when you remove the bloatware that puts an unnecessary strain on the CPU and Ram memory.

The latest version of Stock Android can run on hardware with a single core CPU and 512 Mb of ram. Touchwiz cannot because the features added need far more CPU clock-speed and cores as well as more Ram. The more built on top of the OS, the more powerful hardware you need. There's a reason why the latest version of Android 4.4 can run on a 3 year old Nexus S with a 1GHz single core CPU and 512 Mb of Ram smoothly, but Android 4.3 with Sense 5.5 can't run on a 1.5 year old HTC One X with a 1.5GHz dual Core CPU with 1Gb of Ram. Its all about software optimization and how it communicates with the hardware.

Another example is Apple's ios 7 operating system can still run well on a 3+ year old iPhone 4 because its very well optimized to run on a slower CPU and less ram. BB10 is not very well optimized for hardware predating the final build. It runs fast and smooth on the Z10, Z30, Q10 and Q5 because they have 2 Gb of Ram. It could run on the PlayBook, but it would be a choppy mess, since the de facto minimum amount of Ram required is 2 Gb, which the PlayBook lacks.

So you saying that all android devices lag when not experiencing a Nexus device running stock Android is foolish for lack of a better term. If you want to say that Android WITH Samsung's Touchwiz is laggy then you have a viable argument. However, saying that pure Android itself is laggy is false. That would be like saying smoking pure tobacco will kill you just as fast a smoking a cigarette (which contains Nicotine, Methanol, Ammonia, Arsenic, etc.)

[Carjackd]

I would prefer Native apps, but really does the average consumer really care where they get their apps from? As long as it's not complicated for them (side loading) then they will be good.

Posted via CB10

[Blacklatino]

Well, it would have been nice to have native apps. Right now, I'm just happy to "have" apps to choose from- regardless of the source. I feel the same way about using Android apps as I do using leaks instead of an "official OS release" from the carrier........I want to enjoy the device- now. Anyway, whatever works for the next person.

[ikalinin]

Oh come on now are remotely familiar with software? Each Android OEM comes up with their own skin or layer of software and features on top of core Android. With a surplus of features that were not intended specifically to be incorporated in the root level code of an Android os build (Kit Kat for example) it leads to benefits and problems. For example, Samsung's Touchwiz Multi-Window is not available on an Android device running pure (or Vanilla) Android. Only devices running Samsun's Touchwiz UI/UX have access to these features. Same with "Knock on" from LG's skin or "Blinkfeed from HTC's Sense 5-5.5.

The aforementioned features listed above are unique to their respective OEM's skin. Android is open source and heavily customizable close to the root level which is why these features can be added out of the box or appear a certain way because it is Linux/Unix based. Its essentially the same as Bloatware on PCs or carrier added software.A slow PC becomes much faster when you remove the bloatware that puts an unnecessary strain on the CPU and Ram memory.

The latest version of Stock Android can run on hardware with a single core CPU and 512 Mb of ram. Touchwiz cannot because the features added need far more CPU clock-speed and cores as well as more Ram. The more built on top of the OS, the more powerful hardware you need. There's a reason why the latest version of Android 4.4 can run on a 3 year old Nexus S with a 1GHz single core CPU and 512 Mb of Ram smoothly, but Android 4.3 with Sense 5.5 can't run on a 1.5 year old HTC One X with a 1.5GHz dual Core CPU with 1Gb of Ram. Its all about software optimization and how it communicates with the hardware.

Another example is Apple's ios 7 operating system can still run well on a 3+ year old iPhone 4 because its very well optimized to run on a slower CPU and less ram. BB10 is not very well optimized for hardware predating the final build. It runs fast and smooth on the Z10, Z30, Q10 and Q5 because they have 2 Gb of Ram. It could run on the PlayBook, but it would be a choppy mess, since the de facto minimum amount of Ram required is 2 Gb, which the PlayBook lacks.

So you saying that all android devices lag when not experiencing a Nexus device running stock Android is foolish for lack of a better term. If you want to say that Android WITH Samsung's Touchwiz is laggy then you have a viable argument. However, saying that pure Android itself is laggy is false. That would be like saying smoking pure tobacco will kill you just as fast a smoking a cigarette (which contains Nicotine, Methanol, Ammonia, Arsenic, etc.)

:banghead: :what:

[Tre Lawrence]

I would prefer Native apps, but really does the average consumer really care where they get their apps from? As long as it's not complicated for them (side loading) then they will be good.

Posted via CB10

Yep, if they work seamlessly, and are easy to get to, I don't think people will care.

[Saiga]

:banghead: :what:

Be careful with the banging.

I know this conversation probably won't do any good, but I'd like to show you one last thing. I'm only mentioning this because you brought up how the Samsung Galaxy S4 lags.

Here is two links, they both lead to Samsung Galaxy S4s but one of these things is not like the other.

Google Play Samsung Galaxy S4

Verizon Wireless Samsung Galaxy S4

The top link will take you to the Google Play edition of the Samsung Galaxy S4. That phone runs stock Android as Google sees it should be and gets updates directly from Google.

The bottom link will take you the normal Samsung Galaxy S4 that runs TouchWiz on top of Android, has carrier modifications and bloatware and only gets updates when Verizon is ready to push them.

Now, if what you say is correct, then why is there a Google Play Edition of the Samsung Galaxy S4? It is all Android according to you, so why is there one version of the phone that is heavily modified and another version of the same phone that is running stock Android?

There are several Google Play Edition phones now. These are nothing but versions of popular Android-based devices that have had all of the modifications removed.

Do you still think Android-based and Android are the same thing? I mean do you honestly think those two separate links are leading to the same device? They're not, the software and experience offered from those two smart phones are completely different.

I bet you won't ever see stock Android Kit Kat on the Samsung Galaxy S4 GPE lag.

[Unbiased Tech]

Be careful with the banging.

That's what she said...

[ikalinin]

Now, if what you say is correct, then why is there a Google Play Edition of the Samsung Galaxy S4? It is all Android according to you, so why is there one version of the phone that is heavily modified and another version of the same phone that is running stock Android?

There are several Google Play Edition phones now. These are nothing but versions of popular Android-based devices that have had all of the modifications removed.

Do you still think Android-based and Android are the same thing? I mean do you honestly think those two separate links are leading to the same device? They're not, the software and experience offered from those two smart phones are completely different.

I bet you won't ever see stock Android Kit Kat on the Samsung Galaxy S4 GPE lag.

:banghead: again. For the same reason you have different varients of all BlackBerry devices. The google play edition is a gsm phone. Verizon is cdma. BlackBerry sells their phones on their website too. They are unlocked gsm phones.
But, the gsm and cdma phone still run silky smooth. Even with Verizon putting the same bloatware on its cdma varient.




Posted with my Z30

[greenberry666]

I was right.You, like so many others here who claim that Android phones lag, don't really have any experience with an Android phone. You think you have seen an Android phone lag, you may even think that you've seen Android phones lag straight out of the box. But ya really haven't. It's ok, a lot of other people seem to be very confused by it also.

Just take my word for it, you've NEVER seen an Android phone lag straight out of the box.

Stay rational. You are veering into the crazy-talk in trying to tell others what they have, or have not, witnessed.

It is of course true. Android devices glitch and lag all over the place. But BB10 isn't always perfect either. Personally, I'm more concerned about the SEVEN faulty S3s my gf had to have replaced. I'm not kidding: 7. But she is the kind of girl that makes technology explode by touching it.

[hbach1968]

If so.. i will directly buy a BB

[playbookster]

if blackberry fully loaded with the google service i dont think it will be good idea for users ...

while we can have same GPU/RAM etc phone in half rate why should we choose blackberry for google apps

i am really disappointed by blackberry

That doesn't make sense. Why did you get a BlackBerry in the first place? Those reasons would remain intact, you would just have more apps to choose from. How is that a bad thing?

C001B7B16 The Gif Exchange

[anon(257429)]

:banghead: again. For the same reason you have different varients of all BlackBerry devices. The google play edition is a gsm phone. Verizon is cdma. BlackBerry sells their phones on their website too. They are unlocked gsm phones.
But, the gsm and cdma phone still run silky smooth. Even with Verizon putting the same bloatware on its cdma varient.




Posted with my Z30

umm... Those phones are not the same. The air interface has nothing to do with the software loaded on the phone. Pick any carrier with the S4 and compare this to the stock Android versions .

[bp3dots]

:banghead: again. For the same reason you have different varients of all BlackBerry devices. The google play edition is a gsm phone. Verizon is cdma. BlackBerry sells their phones on their website too. They are unlocked gsm phones.
But, the gsm and cdma phone still run silky smooth. Even with Verizon putting the same bloatware on its cdma varient.

Posted with my Z30

Cmon now... please show us where BB sells different variants of BB10 devices with huge differences in the software they're running.

If you even bothered to look at the links Saiga provided, you'd see the differences. The devices aren't just gsm/cdma. Also, how do you explain then the Google Play Edition S4 vs the AT&T gsm variant? It looks like you're being willfully ignorant to try and hold on to your argument which has been disproven by several people now.

You'll probably ignore this too, but there's no easier way to see the difference.

Samsung Galaxy S4 Google Play Edition vs Samsung Galaxy S4

[anon(257429)]

Testing out the two, they share the same hardware under the hood – a quad-core 1.9GHz Qualcomm Snapdragon 600 CPU coupled with 2GB of RAM and the Adreno 320 GPU. From a cursory look, there’s no arguing that the two are pretty responsive, but upon closer inspection, we find more snappiness with the Google Play Edition of the Galaxy S4. It’s most evident in the homescreen when a live wallpaper is used. There is a little bit of jitteriness seen with the TouchWiz Galaxy S4, while the Google Play Edition moves with a consistent amount of fluidity and finesse.

Considering it’s the stock experience, the Google Play Edition actually boasts the higher internal storage capacity between the two – 12.65GB of space as opposed to 9.62GB on the TouchWiz original. Still, it’s nice to know that they both have microSD card slots to complement their internal memory.

[bbnsth]

:banghead: again. For the same reason you have different varients of all BlackBerry devices. The google play edition is a gsm phone. Verizon is cdma. BlackBerry sells their phones on their website too. They are unlocked gsm phones.
But, the gsm and cdma phone still run silky smooth. Even with Verizon putting the same bloatware on its cdma varient.




Posted with my Z30

i think this put the nail in the coffin. no one officially can argue with u about android because u are really clueless about android.

[ikalinin]

Cmon now... please show us where BB sells different variants of BB10 devices with huge differences in the software they're running.

If you even bothered to look at the links Saiga provided, you'd see the differences. The devices aren't just gsm/cdma. Also, how do you explain then the Google Play Edition S4 vs the AT&T gsm variant? It looks like you're being willfully ignorant to try and hold on to your argument which has been disproven by several people now.

You'll probably ignore this too, but there's no easier way to see the difference.

Samsung Galaxy S4 Google Play Edition vs Samsung Galaxy S4

i think this put the nail in the coffin. no one officially can argue with u about android because u are really clueless about android.

oh my goodness....
these are still ANDROID devices. if samsung loads more stuff to their phone that makes them lag, its still the OS that lags.
android BASED phones still lag because of the OS. software runs on top of the OS.

to put into PC perspective: we're not debating DOS vs WINDOWS, we are debating Adobe on Windows vs Windows w/out adobe.
there is no ignorance.

and BB sells -1, -2, -3 etc.. they are variants. the OS doesn't lag because its a BETTER OS! Verizon still loads its bloatware on its BB variant, Sprint on theirs, ATT on theirs, etc.. but they are still BB devices.. THAT is the debate. Android phones tend to lag, just google android lag. we can dig deeper and say android-based phones tend to lag. which is fine.. it doesnt make it any less or more of an android. android is the OS which lets you run other things on top of it.

[Saiga]

oh my goodness....
these are still QNX devices. if BlackBerry loads more stuff to their phone that makes them lag, its still the OS that lags.
QNX BASED phones still lag because of the OS. software runs on top of the OS.


See how ridiculous that sounds?

You don't call QNX with BlackBerry's code running on top "QNX". So why do you insist on trying to call Android with Samsung's code on top "Android"?

QNX without the bloat that BlackBerry added to it will boot up in milliseconds, it will run for years non stop, it runs flawlessly on the most modest of hardware and it will do a bunch of other pretty amazing things. But slather a heaping-helping of BlackBerry's code on top of QNX and the boots time go up to nearly or over a minute, the OS will reboot itself on occasion and it will all of a sudden require 2GB of RAM and a dual-core CPU just to run properly.

BlackBerry's bloat slows down the underlying QNX OS just like Samsung's bloat can and does slow down Android. For that reason we all agree that BlackBerry 10 is different than QNX, just like most people realize that TouchWiz on top of Android is different than Android. The additional code changes how things perform in both cases.

Hopefully you start calling BlackBerry 10 QNX from now on. Then you'd at least be consistently wrong.