1. fayek's Avatar
    after hearing the talk on the last podcast about the reason why they have sure press and diff ideas to implement touch screens on the blackberry OS platform (in dual touchscreens keyboard models i.e. the rumored magnum/dakota), i got an idea that i think would work without timing or physical press action.

    im sure that someone has probably thought of this and mentioned it before either on the comments or in the forums but anyways here we go:

    just like windows uses it's mouse: 1 click you select but 2 clicks (double click) you execute (or confirm) do that on the blackberry, one touch on something let's say an icon you select it and double click ( with a possible double click 'tap' speed setting) and you execute it.

    of course it's not as efficient as the iphone's click and go but at the same time it can totally rule out the sure press option, and since we're not gonna be typing on a touchscreen keyboard (where we would have to double tap each letter 'crazy!' ) i think it could work very efficiently, just a lil time with it and we'l get used to it.

    i'd love to get some feedback about this idea

    thanks people
    02-08-10 07:27 AM
  2. afropoika's Avatar
    No double tapping, please. Certain objects/controls are already hard to select, which is the reason why I love SurePress: I can carefully move my finger towards the item, highlight it and finally physically push the screen down without moving my finger in any other direction and potentially lose focus of the item I am targeting. Although I find typing on the Storm2 to be a little bit less efficient than on the iPhone, and even if web browsing on the Storm2 sucks compared to Mobile Safari, I make much more mistakes on the iPhone keyboard and too many times accidentally click a link on a website when I wanted to scroll the page or zoom in/out.

    SurePress is beautiful, because it kind of brings together the best of capacitive and resistive touch screens, without using resistive tech (though I wish it would for the ability to use the screen even with gloves on).
    02-08-10 07:39 AM
  3. F0nage's Avatar
    If you can't use a stylus I have no use for it. Capacitive screens = fail.
    02-08-10 07:42 AM
  4. afropoika's Avatar
    F0nage, amen to that. Here is a great article comparing both tech: Resistive vs Capacitive: the invisible tech war in which both opponents can win? - All About Symbian Feature

    Resistive is in many ways, at least for me, the better option. Now if Stantum would come out with the resistive multi-touch enabled screen, that would be awesome to have.
    02-08-10 08:16 AM
  5. F0nage's Avatar
    Cool it only took me 255 posts before somebody actually agreed with me on anything

    Actually I really prefer using a stylus and not smudging the phone. I guess I got used to my Palms years ago and still like using a stylus. Also like you said, with capacitive screens you can't use gloves. What are people supposed to do in the winter?
    Last edited by F0nage; 02-08-10 at 08:42 AM.
    02-08-10 08:27 AM
  6. afropoika's Avatar
    People for the most time are very ignorant and try to claim what they have is the best... probably for peace of mind or justifying the price they paid.

    I personally prefer using a stylus even if I have never owned a phone supporting one. I definitely hate smudging the screen of my Storm2, which was the reason I bought a screen protector for it. Although there are special styluses made for capacitive touch screens, most are very expensive and look plain ugly (more like a sex toy than a pen!).

    Both tech have their pros and cons and it usually boils down to what the individual prefers. Therefore one might go and say "use what suits you best" or "use what works for you". The problem with this is the fact that if I am into the BlackBerry platform, but am looking for a touch screen device, I can not simply go and ask for a version of the Storm with a resistive screen. People need to learn there is much more to a phone other than the hardware. Software plays a big role in how everything works and interacts with the underlying hardware, and for most part is the key component in the device that influences the overall experience of the platform.
    02-08-10 08:50 AM
  7. F0nage's Avatar
    If you have a problem with smudging (like I do on my Nokia 5800 touch) get yourself some micro fiber cleaning cloths. I got some originally for cleaning my LCD monitors but I found they are fantastic for cleaning almost anything, even the Epik resin cases and certainly any kind of screen.

    All good points in your post btw.
    02-08-10 08:59 AM
  8. afropoika's Avatar
    To be honest I enjoyed our discussion and thank you for this. All was civilized and interesting, something I do not see often here.

    Back to the original topic though I find comparing a touch screen input mechanism to a computer mouse is not a good idea. The reason for this being that with a computer mouse, one needs to first navigate to the item they want to activate (e.g. move your mouse towards an application icon) and finally confirm this by physically pushing a mouse button (by the way, double clicking is certainly not used everywhere in Windows; do you double click a link on a website for instance?). We already do this with trackball/trackpad enabled BlackBerry devices: move to the item you want to select and physically push down a hardware component to confirm the selection.

    The problem with touch screens is that they for the most part allows us to directly select an item without first navigating to it. This introduces the problem that the user interface must be redesigned to accommodate this change. RIM was clever here in that they designed SurePress. People keep talking down this technology, even though it is for the most part a very innovative move in the history of touch screens. SurePress allows one to directly select an item of their choice, but confirm it when the person actually pushes down the screen. This (physically pushing down a hardware component) is what feels natural to us, because we have it in our computer mice, trackball/trackpad BlackBerry smartphones and other devices.

    The issue with the Storm2 and any other capacitive touch screen device for the matter, is that they are not accurate enough in certain cases, cannot be used in extreme weather conditions and require bare fingers for proper operation (special styluses don't count here).

    Another issue the Storm2 specifically has is SurePress itself. Although it makes user interface design easier for the developer and makes for a more enjoyable experience for the consumer, typing on it can be a very varying experience. With other capacitive (or resistive) touch screen devices one selects a character on the virtual keyboard and confirms the selection at the same time. With the Storm2 one is required to make a selection and separately confirm the selection. For some this is great, because it allows for better accuracy when typing, but for some this hinders their potential typing speed.

    As it is however, the Storm2 stands out from the crowd thanks to SurePress. However, this doesn't make it any more perfect than the rest. If the Storm2 were to be used with a stylus, SurePress would become a great problem. With a stylus one already has the possibility to make almost pixel perfect selections therefore not requiring a separate action to confirm a selection.

    It is a mixed bag of love and hate, the truth is, there is no perfect technology yet out there. For me the Storm2 works well, but it was more or less a compromise when I decided to buy it. A virtual keyboard can have many advantages to a physical keyboard, such as international language support (being able to see what characters you want to type in languages like Arabic or Chinese helps much instead of having to memorize which key on the standard QWERTY corresponds to which character one wants to type), however for many, including me, a physical keyboard provides the best balance of feedback and accuracy that it could be considered a negative thing to favor a touch screen. Different technologies just work different for different people. I am just happy that with BlackBerry there is a choice: Storm vs. the rest (Pearl/Curve/Tour/Bold).
    02-08-10 09:28 AM
  9. F0nage's Avatar
    Excellent post, look forward to reading more like this!
    02-08-10 10:11 AM
  10. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Blackberry needs a new OS before a new touchscreen.
    02-08-10 04:10 PM
  11. afropoika's Avatar
    Blackberry needs a new OS before a new touchscreen.
    Hopefully OS 6.0 and the new Webkit browser are not for away.
    02-08-10 04:16 PM
  12. Masahiro's Avatar
    There are styli designed for capacitive screens. There was a post on that in the Storm2 forums by a poster saying the phone worked fine with a stylus. There are also gloves with contacts on the finger tips that work for cold weather.

    Long live SurePress!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-10 05:10 PM
  13. fayek's Avatar
    To be honest I enjoyed our discussion and thank you for this. All was civilized and interesting, something I do not see often here.
    LOoOLz Failz NOOB!

    haha just kidding, sorry couldn't help myself.

    shinkodachi, i loved your opinion on this, and the way you expressed it was very structured and proper. great read.

    i agree with you on most of your points. surepress is indeed an innovation in the touchscreen world. and i haven't personally tried it but i hear mixed feeling about it. so i guess love it or hate it.

    i think my point was more towards the dual keyboard, touchscreen kindof device. making it surepress to me seemed redundant. yet in retrospect, altering the OS just to not have sure press seems even stupider to me. i guess blackberry should adhere to the:" we made it and we're sticking to it" motto.

    all in all great thought sharing experience, thanks to everyone who pitched in. glad to know how other people see this.
    02-11-10 06:13 PM
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