11-01-11 04:20 PM
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  1. guttaperk's Avatar
    ADGrant:

    My impressions of RIM have come from following the platform and company over years and years. I've only recently started using one, but I've been getting to know the company for about a decade.

    I'm accustomed to defending RIM from Android folk, but that's been elsewhere. There have been no anti-RIM attacks in this thread thus far as far as I've seen, so I'm not sure what you'd expect me to do.

    How I hold the phone has had absolutely no effect on call reception on the 3G or 3Gs. Antennagate was much overhyped, and it was an iPhone 4 issue, not a 3G/ 3Gs issue.

    iPhones for flexibility, by design. Blackberries, for superior, power-efficient, data-thrifty messaging, by design. From the very beginning, BB's were designed to be corporate messaging tools that made the most of Canada's expensive bandwidth. From the beginning, the iPhone was designed to have a huge screen with a virtual interface that could shift according to the needs of the application in use.

    I think the people in charge of the company have a much stronger grasp on things than anyone in these forums, moderators included.
    I think that your faith is touching. What you say might be true now, but it wasn't true a few years ago when leadership was dismissing touchscreens, the iPhone, and third-party application ecosystems. Over time, RIM leadership has had to change course completely. If they can admit error, even indirectly, you should be able to admit their error.

    Everything posted here is extremely US biased
    I don't live in the USA, don't rely completely on American sources, and don't have a US bias. I read Canadian analyses of RIM, and find them illuminating.

    I don't think people are going to stores or online and end up feeling awful with choices. I think we have to have a little more faith in the average person.
    Nobody's going to feel awful. They're just going to report lower user satisfaction with Blackberry devices, and they'll be less loyal to the platform in the presence of reasonable alternatives*precisely what is currently happening. Did you read the article(s) I cited?

    I hope they keep things the same. More options the better.
    I thought you'd watched a TED presentation on the topic is it to be dismissed or ignored when convenient? More options are certainly not always better for most people.
    10-31-11 11:55 PM
  2. ADGrant's Avatar
    Don't see what you completely disagree with or what you arguments against it were. I don't think the average person uses exchange active sync or even knows what it is, cause I don't. I find it hard to believe anyone actually thinks the iPhone is a better communication device. The company admitted it had problems with the antennae, told people to get a case and only fixed it on the new phone a year later. I'll repeat my opinion again which I don't know how someone could disagree. Blackberries seem to be built with communication/business (it's the whole basis for the company on which they were founded) as a main priority while iPhone seem to entertainment-centric (they came from making iPods and PCs), I really don't know how you can argue against that but I'm sure you will.
    You are right, I will. I find it hard to believe that someone who does not even know what exchange active sync or how it compares to BIS or BES is would feel qualified to comment on the relative merits of the iPhone and BB as communication devices. I also find it hard to believe that there are people accessing there email using their smartphone's web browser. I don't know of any smartphone where the email client is so bad that the browser is better.

    Aside from an email client that does not truncate emails, the iPhone has video calling built in and a much more robust calendar that the BB. It allows for seamless OTA contact & calendar syncing with other devices (tablets, laptops or desktops) via either iCloud or Exchange Active Sync. iMessage may not have all the features of BBM but it does work across multiple devices unlike BBM and seamlessly integrates with SMS messaging. However, if most of your friends have BBs, iMessage won't be so useful (and if they don't BBM, won't be so useful).

    The one big advantage some BBs have is the keyboard, the 9900's is particularly good.
    11-01-11 12:06 AM
  3. ADGrant's Avatar
    ADGrant:

    My impressions of RIM have come from following the platform and company over years and years. I've only recently started using one, but I've been getting to know the company for about a decade.

    I'm accustomed to defending RIM from Android folk, but that's been elsewhere. There have been no anti-RIM attacks in this thread thus far as far as I've seen, so I'm not sure what you'd expect me to do.

    How I hold the phone has had absolutely no effect on call reception on the 3G or 3Gs. Antennagate was much overhyped, and it was an iPhone 4 issue, not a 3G/ 3Gs issue.

    iPhones for flexibility, by design. Blackberries, for superior, power-efficient, data-thrifty messaging, by design. From the very beginning, BB's were designed to be corporate messaging tools that made the most of Canada's expensive bandwidth. From the beginning, the iPhone was designed to have a huge screen with a virtual interface that could shift according to the needs of the application in use.


    I think that your faith is touching. What you say might be true now, but it wasn't true a few years ago when leadership was dismissing touchscreens, the iPhone, and third-party application ecosystems. Over time, RIM leadership has had to change course completely. If they can admit error, even indirectly, you should be able to admit their error.


    I don't live in the USA, don't rely completely on American sources, and don't have a US bias. I read Canadian analyses of RIM, and find them illuminating.


    Nobody's going to feel awful. They're just going to report lower user satisfaction with Blackberry devices, and they'll be less loyal to the platform in the presence of reasonable alternatives*precisely what is currently happening. Did you read the article(s) I cited?


    I thought you'd watched a TED presentation on the topic is it to be dismissed or ignored when convenient? More options are certainly not always better for most people.
    None of the quotes you included in your post were mine.
    11-01-11 12:07 AM
  4. Frosty_Power's Avatar
    You are right, I will. I find it hard to believe that someone who does not even know what exchange active sync or how it compares to BIS or BES is would feel qualified to comment on the relative merits of the iPhone and BB as communication devices. I also find it hard to believe that there are people accessing there email using their smartphone's web browser. I don't know of any smartphone where the email client is so bad that the browser is better.

    Aside from an email client that does not truncate emails, the iPhone has video calling built in and a much more robust calendar that the BB. It allows for seamless OTA contact & calendar syncing with other devices (tablets, laptops or desktops) via either iCloud or Exchange Active Sync. iMessage may not have all the features of BBM but it does work across multiple devices unlike BBM and seamlessly integrates with SMS messaging. However, if most of your friends have BBs, iMessage won't be so useful (and if they don't BBM, won't be so useful).

    The one big advantage some BBs have is the keyboard, the 9900's is particularly good.
    While I do agree with some of your comments, I'm going to have to disagree with your main one. The AVERAGE iPhone user as AZ87 mentioned, does not know what you are talking about, which was exactly his point. You are not the average iPhone user.
    Last edited by Frosty_Power; 11-01-11 at 12:39 AM.
    AZ87 likes this.
    11-01-11 12:35 AM
  5. mud314's Avatar
    Thanks! I am... and I'm plotting my next one!
    LOL!!! Aren't we always? I don't care how satisfied I am with my 9930, I know that I am currently on my honeymoon with it. My honeymoon only lasts about 1 yr to 1.5yrs after which my itch begins. Though I gotta say I am really enjoying this phone more than any other that I have owned in the past: Pre, Android, WinMo, iOS only experienced on iPad. I tell you what I'm looking forward to, the new PSP, but that's another thread.

    Good luck with your next gadget
    11-01-11 12:42 AM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    OP yes if you are using a 9300 then it probably does seem antiquated compared to other modern phones. The OS7 devices are pretty nice. The 99xx keyboard is just great.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    11-01-11 01:11 AM
  7. AZ87's Avatar
    You are right, I will. I find it hard to believe that someone who does not even know what exchange active sync or how it compares to BIS or BES is would feel qualified to comment on the relative merits of the iPhone and BB as communication devices. I also find it hard to believe that there are people accessing there email using their smartphone's web browser. I don't know of any smartphone where the email client is so bad that the browser is better.

    Aside from an email client that does not truncate emails, the iPhone has video calling built in and a much more robust calendar that the BB. It allows for seamless OTA contact & calendar syncing with other devices (tablets, laptops or desktops) via either iCloud or Exchange Active Sync. iMessage may not have all the features of BBM but it does work across multiple devices unlike BBM and seamlessly integrates with SMS messaging. However, if most of your friends have BBs, iMessage won't be so useful (and if they don't BBM, won't be so useful).

    The one big advantage some BBs have is the keyboard, the 9900's is particularly good.
    You are definitely right that I'm not qualified to comment on BB vs iPhone in respect to email. Communication devices aren't email only though. To me as a phone the iPhone is lousy, which is my opinion from using one. It doesn't bother me since I rarely make phone calls and use my phone more as an iPod and web browser.

    I'm definitely happy with the addition of iMessage. Free messages now to iOS5 friends. I just worry about messaging to other countries and it not going through iMessage and becoming an sms. Happened to me once but fortunately wasn't an international text.
    11-01-11 01:13 AM
  8. reeneebob's Avatar
    Moiselles, I am used to being told I can't possibly use my phone for what I claim to because it's not a BB. I was told on this site that it was impossible that I planned my wedding and revised contracts along with organising complicated schedules on my Android device. I did.

    People will hold to the iPhone/Android are toys for kids who do nothing but play games and don't need email/messaging right to the point RIM collapses.

    I know there are strong and weak points with every platform. It gets tedious when the fanboys ON BOTH SIDES refuse to concede them.

    I want RIM to succeed. If the QNX phones are strong I'd come back. I also have an appreciation for all platforms. Others would do well to educate themselves and do the same. The discussions here would be all the better for it.
    Last edited by reeneebob; 11-01-11 at 01:28 AM.
    11-01-11 01:25 AM
  9. suot.doi's Avatar
    iToy? Show some respect for the phone that change the way we use cellphones today. If you want to know what I mean, take a look at the phones released before the iPhone came out in 2007. And your comment is pure BULL.

    What you hear? smh.
    i hate to tell you this , but you lived in the western world for phones , i used to be on symbian v3 , samsung i8910 and honestly , alot of the features iphone 4s holds are in that device , i got that phone 09 and alot of features iphone and android we see today - had to their device i see in that , but 09 we had 8MP and HD recording . and if you say peoples comments are "BULL" what phones have your had before your iphone ! *** MR FANBOY on a berry forum
    11-01-11 01:42 AM
  10. AZ87's Avatar
    ADGrant:

    My impressions of RIM have come from following the platform and company over years and years. I've only recently started using one, but I've been getting to know the company for about a decade.

    I'm accustomed to defending RIM from Android folk, but that's been elsewhere. There have been no anti-RIM attacks in this thread thus far as far as I've seen, so I'm not sure what you'd expect me to do.

    How I hold the phone has had absolutely no effect on call reception on the 3G or 3Gs. Antennagate was much overhyped, and it was an iPhone 4 issue, not a 3G/ 3Gs issue.

    iPhones for flexibility, by design. Blackberries, for superior, power-efficient, data-thrifty messaging, by design. From the very beginning, BB's were designed to be corporate messaging tools that made the most of Canada's expensive bandwidth. From the beginning, the iPhone was designed to have a huge screen with a virtual interface that could shift according to the needs of the application in use.


    I think that your faith is touching. What you say might be true now, but it wasn't true a few years ago when leadership was dismissing touchscreens, the iPhone, and third-party application ecosystems. Over time, RIM leadership has had to change course completely. If they can admit error, even indirectly, you should be able to admit their error.


    I don't live in the USA, don't rely completely on American sources, and don't have a US bias. I read Canadian analyses of RIM, and find them illuminating.


    Nobody's going to feel awful. They're just going to report lower user satisfaction with Blackberry devices, and they'll be less loyal to the platform in the presence of reasonable alternatives*precisely what is currently happening. Did you read the article(s) I cited?


    I thought you'd watched a TED presentation on the topic is it to be dismissed or ignored when convenient? More options are certainly not always better for most people.
    I think we just have a difference of opinion. US media is a big American export and it's influence is definitely going to be seen outside the US. In my opinion is that RIM is fine and they have a good global strategy, that's why we see so many different models. I had previously to this conversation watched the TED presentation. As for there being a large variety of models who really goes to the RIM website to buy a phone, you go through the carrier and the selection is far smaller. Not ignoring anything, just looking at the reality of the situation. Carriers don't have the full selection, even if they did this isn't a huge decision for most people, most people are low on Kevin's cell phone hierarchy.

    The media has created a negative stigma surrounding them and its starting to affect sales but mostly were the negative media has been coming from. You could argue that RIM is behind on things and I would agree, but the average person wouldn't even realize this unless they were told.

    RIM has done a lot of work and continues to do work to evolve blackberries which are arguably on par with most to all the other phones on the market. RIM came out with the Storm shortly after the iPhone came out so I think they were paying close attention to the trend but the Storm was a miss and they over estimated peoples desire for a tactile response on their phones.

    As for my 'faith', it's not faith, I just realize that most people on here, mods included, have no idea how to run a multi-billion dollar company in a fast-paced ever evolving industry and all the things involved in it. I'm a little more humble and realize that their decisions are much more informed than any of ours will ever be. But I guess if we didn't act like we could run the company these forums might not be as fun.
    11-01-11 01:44 AM
  11. guttaperk's Avatar
    Sorry for the mis-attribution, guys.

    AZ87, you do realise that you aren't refuting anything that I'm saying, right?

    For what it's worth, I'm well aware that RIM will be okay. RIM, like IBM, is not going to die. The issue is not the survival of the company, but whether or not they're pushed into becoming a niche player in a world where Android, iOS, and Windows Phone continue to dominate more and more, in a continuation of the trends of the past few years.

    You could argue that RIM is behind on things and I would agree, but the average person wouldn't even realize this unless they were told.
    On the contrary, average people are asking me about other platforms because they hear and see that iPhones and Android phones have advantages over the Blackberries they know. I suppose, even in your framework "they're being told".

    Again, the strategies that you're supporting are the RIM strategies of yesteryear that resulted in RIM being behind. It's not actually a matter of opinion any more, sadly enough.

    I too believe that RIM knows what they are doing; but I believe that they are hardware engineers first, with a focus that makes them slow to respond to changing consumer demand and market realities. Again, this isn't really a matter of opinion, but a matter of what history has demonstrated.
    rcheung135 likes this.
    11-01-11 06:39 AM
  12. caitlinhenry's Avatar
    So you were using iPhone for gaming purpose and BB for other professionla purposes. isn't it?
    11-01-11 07:45 AM
  13. ADGrant's Avatar
    You are definitely right that I'm not qualified to comment on BB vs iPhone in respect to email. Communication devices aren't email only though. To me as a phone the iPhone is lousy, which is my opinion from using one. It doesn't bother me since I rarely make phone calls and use my phone more as an iPod and web browser.

    I'm definitely happy with the addition of iMessage. Free messages now to iOS5 friends. I just worry about messaging to other countries and it not going through iMessage and becoming an sms. Happened to me once but fortunately wasn't an international text.
    My experiance with using the iPhone 4s as an actual phone is the call quality is superior to the call quality of the 9700 it replaced. I also find FaceTime superior in quality to Skype video calling (the BBs don't support video calling of course).

    BTW there are too solutions to your iMessage concern. One it to turn the feature off that is worrying you. The second is to iMessage to an email address instead of mobile number. You can also iMessage from an iPad which will not incur additional charges.
    Chrisy likes this.
    11-01-11 08:18 AM
  14. ichat's Avatar
    My experiance with using the iPhone 4s as an actual phone is the call quality is superior to the call quality of the 9700 it replaced. I also find FaceTime superior in quality to Skype video calling (the BBs don't support video calling of course).



    BTW there are too solutions to your iMessage concern. One it to turn the feature off that is worrying you. The second is to iMessage to an email address instead of mobile number. You can also iMessage from an iPad which will not incur additional charges.

    Really? I really don't know if the call quality is any better than 4s on 9700
    11-01-11 08:24 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Really? I really don't know if the call quality is any better than 4s on 9700
    From a different thread, he never discovered he could enhance the call quality on his 9700, Boost Bass makes a huge difference, first thing I do on any blackberry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-01-11 08:42 AM
  16. ADGrant's Avatar
    From a different thread, he never discovered he could enhance the call quality on his 9700, Boost Bass makes a huge difference, first thing I do on any blackberry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You would hope that a smartphone manufacturer would not make good call quality an user configurable option.
    Chrisy likes this.
    11-01-11 08:47 AM
  17. ADGrant's Avatar
    Really? I really don't know if the call quality is any better than 4s on 9700
    I was surprised myself.
    11-01-11 08:48 AM
  18. Chrisy's Avatar
    My experiance with using the iPhone 4s as an actual phone is the call quality is superior to the call quality of the 9700 it replaced. I also find FaceTime superior in quality to Skype video calling (the BBs don't support video calling of course).

    BTW there are too solutions to your iMessage concern. One it to turn the feature off that is worrying you. The second is to iMessage to an email address instead of mobile number. You can also iMessage from an iPad which will not incur additional charges.
    I compared Facetime on my mom's iP4 to Skype on my Thunderbolt. I was surprised but Facetime was more clear, no lag at all.

    I still like Skype because more people have it, on their device and PC. But the Skype had slight lag and was not as crisp. Still a good app. Skype can be used over 3G as well which is great.

    On the new iP4s, can Facetime be used over 3G? Or wifi only still? That might be why the difference in quality. I was using 3G on my Android.
    11-01-11 08:49 AM
  19. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You would hope that a smartphone manufacturer would not make good call quality an user configurable option.
    You can boost bass or boost treble, you have a choice, normal is standard.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-01-11 08:58 AM
  20. ADGrant's Avatar
    I compared Facetime on my mom's iP4 to Skype on my Thunderbolt. I was surprised but Facetime was more clear, no lag at all.

    I still like Skype because more people have it, on their device and PC. But the Skype had slight lag and was not as crisp. Still a good app. Skype can be used over 3G as well which is great.

    On the new iP4s, can Facetime be used over 3G? Or wifi only still? That might be why the difference in quality. I was using 3G on my Android.
    Facetime is still only wi-fi and I have found the video quality much better than Skype over wi-fi.

    I use skype to communicate with relatives in the UK who have it on their Windows PCs. It did take my father 2 hours to get setup at one time. Like most things Apple, Factime just works. I am thinking about getting the UK relatives an iPod touch though really my Father should get rid of all his useless PCs and just get an iPad.
    Chrisy likes this.
    11-01-11 09:01 AM
  21. BergerKing's Avatar
    You would hope that a smartphone manufacturer would not make good call quality an user configurable option.
    Actually, making the sound quality is a nice option. Not all people perceive sounds the same. Some prefer higher, and others, a lower register. If it wasn't that way, people that made graphic equalizers would have never had a product that sold at all. Personally, I'm a fan of product choice. I've never been a fan of the 'Do it our way or get bent' business mentality.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-01-11 09:15 AM
  22. moiselles's Avatar
    From a different thread, he never discovered he could enhance the call quality on his 9700, Boost Bass makes a huge difference, first thing I do on any blackberry.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I had Boost Bass on my 9800 enabled and my 4S sound (music, calls, and any tones) is incredibly superior to my Torch.
    11-01-11 10:09 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I had Boost Bass on my 9800 enabled and my 4S sound (music, calls, and any tones) is incredibly superior to my Torch.
    Yes, I've heard that about the Torch before, iphone 4s better then Torch but not as good as the 9900 she said(had both at the same time for a bit)

    The 9900 is better then the 9700.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-01-11 10:15 AM
  24. knowledge_6's Avatar
    it's funny (well more annoying) that someone cannot just praise a device they like without having either an iphone user or BB user destroying the thread!

    "my BB is AWESOME"
    "yah RIM is going down" "BB SUCKS"

    "my iphone is awesome"
    "yah itoy sucks"

    even threads about people having issues or question leads to these type of posts.. kinda getting outta hand...

    yes i prefer a BB and do not like the iphone as it doens't suit me needs...and yes i do defend BB's in threads, but we are all gadget freaks and love gadgets.. can't we all just get along?!?!

    I think all the threads i read this morning have some sorta iphone or BB hate in it!
    Last edited by knowledge_6; 11-01-11 at 10:47 AM.
    guttaperk and Fatoomah like this.
    11-01-11 10:42 AM
  25. guttaperk's Avatar
    So you were using iPhone for gaming purpose and BB for other professionla purposes. isn't it?
    I use my iPhone primarily for gaming now.
    Importantly, though, I also use it for reference materials for work as well as for my hobby, photography. Those apps are available for iOS, but they just aren't available for BBOS.

    If my BB was more stable and had better apps available, I'd either ditch iOS entirely, or switch the iPhone for a cheap gaming iPod Touch.
    11-01-11 04:20 PM
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