[anon(1723145)]

Ever notice the constant buzz on the forums? How RIM has lost its way and is being left in the dust. Complaints abound: Outdated hardware, buggy software, lack of apps etc. Listening to all this chatter you would think RIM should throw in the towel and file for bankruptcy tomorrow! There's no doubt, RIM has lost ground in the smart phone market. But, considering how long they had the market almost all to themselves, you'd expect them to lose some ground once more players got in the game. Do people really expect RIM to completely abandon their business model and just start copying the "flavor of the month" phone(s)?

RIM built the smart-phone market on push email, enterprise security, excellent battery life, and manual keyboards. These innovations took "on the go" messaging to a whole new level. Without a doubt, the game has changed since then, but the core functions of a blackberry are still in high demand. Not everyone needs a big touch-screen, and a thousand apps. ****, I know BB users that have never used the camera or the browser! I'm sure RIM will be producing devices that are more Android/Apple like in the very near future. But, they shouldn't just start adding specs and features without considering what set them apart in the first place.

One thing is for sure though...

I've yet to find a phone that meets my needs as well as my Bold 9650!

IMHO, I think the future looks bright for RIM.

[californiablackberry]

I agree with this thread all the way.
They will prevail, until then, I'll get an Android to keep me over.

[chuckh0308]

Things have been a little grim at Rim the past couple years, but they have been making some pretty good strategic moves that should get them back into the game, but it wont hapen overnight. I was hoping that this would be their comeback year, but it seems they still have some work to do. Maybe the pieces will come together this year though and 2012 will be their comeback year? Hard to say for sure, but I think it wil happen. And until then, I too will be hanging out with Android...

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[mendez777]

I know many people that switch to android but they are back to BlackBerry in few months.....thats Rim offer is more complete....how about droid platform security? For professional use Rim is so far 3 years ahead other stuff....if you use smartphones for fun, music, videos and nice looking go fast to droid world!!!

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[belfastdispatcher]

Things have been a little grim at Rim the past couple years, but they have been making some pretty good strategic moves that should get them back into the game, but it wont hapen overnight. I was hoping that this would be their comeback year, but it seems they still have some work to do. Maybe the pieces will come together this year though and 2012 will be their comeback year? Hard to say for sure, but I think it wil happen. And until then, I too will be hanging out with Android...

Grim? All they do is grow grow grow, not at the Android rate but that's many manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon.

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Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[BoldtotheMax]

I honestly don't see where they fell off over the last few years? They still sell quite well, more so globally, but fact is, it is still selling well.

What is funny is I had older BB's in a 8100 and S1, even an 7250, but my 9700 has destroyed any RIM BB I have had...even over my 8900. Yes, they are basically same things and maybe mild adjustments, but my 9700 has been the most rock solid berry I have owned...and I'd say I qualify for a solid opinion. Browser experience is better, processor speeed, more memory, overall a multitasking beast!

This coming from someone who has had majority of carriers and tried all platforms from iPhones to older Androids. Well the glitz and glam is nice for a change of pace, nothing gets stuff done like my berry's have, especially my 9700.

A lot of the reason they seem out of date and behind and so called lacking innovation is due to just that...the "glitz and the glam!" New shiny TS's with huge amounts of memory and speed....yes nice, but it honestly does nothing better overall than my 9700...

And now with these new devices coming out for BB in 11'....gonna be a good time to be a RIM fan, which I am for life!

A lot od people fall for the WOW factor...I kinda did for a NY minute, but I tried, I didn't like...I have been home for awhile now and won't stray again.

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[Skeevecr]

Things have been a little grim at Rim the past couple years, but they have been making some pretty good strategic moves that should get them back into the game, but it wont hapen overnight. I was hoping that this would be their comeback year, but it seems they still have some work to do. Maybe the pieces will come together this year though and 2012 will be their comeback year? Hard to say for sure, but I think it wil happen. And until then, I too will be hanging out with Android...

A little grim in the sense that they keep increasing profits and having record quarters, I wish my own bank account was having such a grim time.

[BoldtotheMax]

Word, you want grim, let's some of us compare bank accounts and wonder why it is we even have a smartphone, haha!

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[anon(73368)]

I agree with this thread all the way.
They will prevail, until then, I'll get an Android to keep me over.

Been there done that(Evo) You"ll regret it! Especially with BB's upcoming phones!

[Xopher]

I don't think RIM is done for at all. I do think that the sizzle of other platforms has had an effect on sales figures. Just look at how Android has jumped over all other platforms in the past year.

I think the drawback for RIM has been the small incremental changes in device lines. The change between 9700 and 9780 seems very small (slight more memory), the 9630 and 9650 have a more pronounced difference, but still not much. Other than being able to run BB6, there isn't much of a difference between the 85xx and 93xx series. If I had a Curve 85xx, is there really enough reason to upgrade just for the OS? I know that when looking to upgrade my Tour, my option was to upgrade to the 9650 and lock myself in to that device until next summer. It made more sense to me to bypass the Bold and wait to see what comes out this summer, or even wait for the possible QNX devices next year.

That being said, I do think that the devices coming out this summer are a good springboard towards next year's offerings. But with platforms like Android having new devices hitting the market just about every month, it can be hard to be patient and wait for the new BlackBerry models.

[SCrid2000]

I think the OP in this thread shows more intelligence than about half the other threads in General Discussion combined.

[BBMINI]

RIM has lost ground in the smart phone market. But, considering how long they had the market almost all to themselves, you'd expect them to lose some ground once more players got in the game.

I completely agree with the comments about the endless whining and doomsday forecasts -- I've been tired of it for months.

As for the "losing ground" part, you're right in saying that once more players are in the game then there's no way to avoid change. It seems to me that most folks forget that the entire smartphone market has exploded over the last few years in terms of total units sold. So while I admit that RIM hasn't maintained the overwhelmingly dominant % of marketshare it had previously, its "Units Sold" numbers actually haven't suffered -- it's still basically selling as many or more BBs as it has before, but it's just that all the people buying smartphones for the first time these days have many more choices than they used to. So in effect the smartphone "pie" has gotten much, much bigger than it used to be and more players are getting a piece of the action.

There's no question that RIM is going to have to make some exciting moves in the near future to regain some momentum and grow its marketshare, but arguably its core customer base has stayed about the same size as it has been historically, while first-time smartphone buyers are probably choosing iPhones and Androids. RIM certainly can't bank its future on "treading water" in terms of units sold, but I just wish all the RIM-bashers would get some perspective about how a growth industry works and how it affects all the competitors in that industry. A growing industry/product market can support all the players in that market, and in fact needs all of them just to supply all the demand for the product. It's a bit of a chicken-or-egg situation where the demand creates more supply options, and then more supply choices also creates more increasing demand so the entire market keeps growing. Think of how the auto industry began small and grew over many decades while more and more players successfully jumped into the market, but ultimately Daimler-Benz (arguably the inventory of the entire industry) has remained successful and prominent throughout.

For example with made-up numbers, if RIM sold 10 Million units 5 years ago and the entire smartphone market was 12 Million units then RIM clearly was the dominant player. Now say the smartphone market has grown to 50 Million total units since iPhone and Android phones have hit the scene and everyone from teenagers to grandmothers are now interested in, and buying, smartphones. RIM could still be selling the same 10 Million units as it was before and remaining a healthy, viable company -- so while it has "lost ground" in terms of not gaining 100% of the new smartphone customer market, it hasn't lost any ground in terms of its historical efforts or volume.

I also don't know what RIM's goals are for the future. Does it want to focus on its core customer market without feeling like it has to regain it's once-dominant marketshare? Does it want to move aggressively into the High School market with a model that has awesome gaming and better video? Does it want to introduce a phone targeted at senior citizens? Does it want to try to be everything to everyone? As for the last question, I certainly hope not since plenty of other companies in many other industries have tried to do that with abysmal results.

I admit that the iPhone and Android devices have been game-changers in the smartphone industry and that RIM doesn't want to be the next Palm, but I also suspect it would be wise of RIM to be aggressive but smart about knowing who its target market is without diluting its efforts and expertise, and realistic about what its future sales volume should be while letting the doomsday forecasters whine and bash all they want.

[chuckh0308]

A little grim in the sense that they keep increasing profits and having record quarters, I wish my own bank account was having such a grim time.

But how much longer can they sustain that when they are depending on third world markets and have fallen behind even in what they were known for. The only thing left thatthey can claim is security and the typical consumer just isn't that concerned about that.

Believe me, I was one of the biggest supporters of RIM ever and I want nothing but goodness to come from them, but when they can't even get email right, what am I supposed to do? And don't even get me started on the web experience. Those are two places they should NOT be behind the competition, but are.

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[Xterra2]

I can agree
To be honest i hate the BB OS and only thing that is keeping me with RIM is the bbm - so when i heard bbm is coming to iOS and Android i made up my mind to buy an android phone but since use the 9780, i re-read the bold touch (dakota) and was impressed a bit especially when 6.1 is a major upgrade with the 1.2Ghz processor and 768 ram i would wait to see if the dakota would support the QNX else or am gone off blackberry

[sleepngbear]

I can agree
To be honest i hate the BB OS and only thing that is keeping me with RIM is the bbm - so when i heard bbm is coming to iOS and Android i made up my mind to buy an android phone but since use the 9780, i re-read the bold touch (dakota) and was impressed a bit especially when 6.1 is a major upgrade with the 1.2Ghz processor and 768 ram i would wait to see if the dakota would support the QNX else or am gone off blackberry

May as well start testing out those Androids right now. The next round of phones most likely won't support a QNX-based OS. It's been pretty clearly stated that QNX is best suited for multi-core processors, and these new phones are all single-core, but pretty snappy looking single-core. So they are not going to be slouches by any stretch, I would bet. I still say that, even though the OS6 browser is leaps and bounds above OS5, it's biggest speed limitation right now is the 624 mhz processor. It's fully up to the task for all other functions, it's just lacking grunt for more intensive tasks like rendering full-version web pages. Take an improved OS and pair it with a processor that's about doubled the clock speed, and you're talking more than just a marginal performance gain.

RIM knows they have to step it up in the hardware department. If you're willing to wait a few more months for the next gen phones, I really think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Otherwise, just out of curiosity, what is it you hate about BBOS?

[cheech73]

I love it when i here comments like OH RIM puts out only 2 or 3 different devices out but there just upgrades to current devices and Android puts out a different device every month.. well sure when there 5 or 6 different phone manufacturers that make phones and only 1 RIM. look at apple how many different phone do they have ummm 1, i mean sure its a great phone but it still 1 Iphone. RIM is on a roller coaster ride, there were times there were the best and out on top but you know what no company can always stay on top. Android and Iphone clawed there way on top so now there hitting bottom, soon enough they will be on top again. Happens to all major players out there, Apple, Microsoft etc.. etc..

[donnation]

I think Palm thought they knew what they were doing a few years ago too.

[quellerie]

I think Palm thought they knew what they were doing a few years ago too.

This is a false comparison - comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges.

First, RIM is far more entrenched in corporate/government networks than Palm ever was.

Second, WebOS was a hail Mary from a dying company. RIM is clearly evolving away from BBOS in such a way that existing customers won't get spooked while at the same time adding more WOW to entice new customers.

IMHO, Palm's moment in the sun faded as soon as PDAs became smartphones. In other words the category they understood best and dominated simply disappeared from under them. I owned many versions of the Palm and loved every single one of them. Even though, in those days, Microsoft entered the market with a glitzier OS and all my techy friends were leaving Palm for Compaq PDAs.

Does anybody here remember the Psion PDA? I had that before PALM. It had a QWERTY keyboard and could do email and basic web browsing with an external modem. But Palm killed them with their keyboard-less data- entry system (AKA stylus).

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[BBMINI]

IMHO, Palm's moment in the sun faded as soon as PDAs became smartphones. In other words the category they understood best and dominated simply disappeared from under them.

Good point, and what an incredible, swift and total collapse it was in the PDA market. I remember being surprised one day when going into Staples or Office Depot actually looking to replace my Palm PDA with a new one and being told they didn't offer them any more. None. No PDAs for sale at an office superstore when less than a year prior they had had an entire display case dedicated to them.

I don't think the smartphone will collapse any time soon, but it's certainly evolving along with the entire personal technology/gadget market. It's interesting to me to see the various historic and current trends among laptops, desktops, phones and now tablets. Phones first got as small as possible and now they're getting bigger again (some even looking a bit like small tablets). Laptops were all the rage for years while desktops withered, but with the introduction of tablets laptops are now coming into question while desktops start to make a comeback (even my wife just recently replaced her beloved laptop with a large Mac desktop as her main computer while planning to use her iPad as her mobile computer). Tablets are fighting it out to see which size is best and most popular and might eventually be considered a smartphone replacement.

Jeesh, it's hard to keep up. I feel for the execs at RIM or any other Tech company when it comes to trying to forecast market trends and demand while also trying to stay innovative when the ultimate goal of industry competitors seems to always be the introduction of a game-changing device or technology.

[tkwolf]

i dont have much to say but this: "i really hope so"

[Pete6]

I agree pretty much all the way here. RIM/BlackBerry has an incredibly good product offering.

I see their future as bright too.

I think that the BlackBerry needs a bit of an update and a makeover. A bit more pzzazz for todays overhyped iSheep world.

I think that QNX is going to suply this especially with TAT doing the UI.

[Reed McLay]

But how much longer can they sustain that when they are depending on third world markets and have fallen behind even in what they were known for. The only thing left thatthey can claim is security and the typical consumer just isn't that concerned about that.

Believe me, I was one of the biggest supporters of RIM ever and I want nothing but goodness to come from them, but when they can't even get email right, what am I supposed to do? And don't even get me started on the web experience. Those are two places they should NOT be behind the competition, but are.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

It turns out, many of the emerging markets are very aware of security.... with good reason.

[sleepngbear]

But how much longer can they sustain that when they are depending on third world markets and have fallen behind even in what they were known for. The only thing left thatthey can claim is security and the typical consumer just isn't that concerned about that.

Don't ask me why this sticks in my craw, but I really wish people would stop referring to emerging markets as 'third world'. Not only does it sound arrogant and snobbish, it suggests you get your information from headlines and word-of-mouth but otherwise don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're basically calling most of Europe, Asia and a good portion of South America third-world. Maybe some areas in the latter two are, but the ones living in grass huts are not the ones buying BB's, or any other phone for that matter. 'Developing' is in specific reference to wireless communications markets, not the state of development of civilization. I mean, is Russia what you'd call a third-world country? Emerging markets are quite modernized and industrialized, but the markets are presently dominated by cheap, low-end feature phones. It's not like they're tossing phones off the back of the Red Cross truck to people standing in line waiting for their bags of rice. RIM has gotten a foothold in these areas before most of the other high-end manufacturers, and, while they may be turning a buck selling lower-end phones by US standards, they're selling more of them there than anybody else at the moment and in the process establishing a strong presence for the point in time when they are ready for consuming higher-end hardware. And when that time comes, yes, RIM will have caught up with everyone else's technology.

[Fatoomah]

I'm one of those sick of hearing the term "third world'. Enough! Just taking a wide sweeping statement like "they are depending on third world markets and have fallen behind even in what they were known for" and bandying it about at every RIM bashing opportunity is getting tired and lame. Please stop.

[qbnkelt]

Bugs the living daylights out of me too.
Cash is cash, profits are profits, net gains are net gains. Who the bloody h3ll cares where they come from. Gains don't make it any more profitable and don't keep you any more solvent dependent upon where the gains came from/
The snobbery is truly rampant.

OK, done with that tiny rant....