06-16-15 04:10 AM
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  1. arkenoi's Avatar
    Disk encryption is built into BB10 go into your settings and then security for one. Stop spreading garbage.

    End to end encryption for email, you need BES for that and or a valid certificate that you and recipient need to install. Take a look at blackberry.com/btsc and search.

    If android apps don't have access to the same api's in BB10 as Android device then it's safe to see its restricted from the same activities. Sure this annoys the end user right?
    BlackBerry, accept no substitute nor compromise!
    Turn your BB off, then on. Do not enter a password. You still see emails and calls and messages being received. Do you know what does it mean? There is NO full disk encryption. The key is on the device.

    "You need BES for that", don't be ridiculous.

    And android apps effectively have TOTAL access to data on the phone. Sure you can tune it to do not, but 99% users will never bother. Fail.
    06-08-15 06:26 AM
  2. z10Jobe's Avatar

    Everyone who doesn't buy a BlackBerry is obviously an iSheep or a Fandroid and BlackBerry is for the true leaders who aren't stupid followers.
    A little extreme doncha think?.....but your premise has some merit.

    Kidding of course.....

    Posted via CB10
    06-08-15 08:27 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Much like television, the web is NOT solely based on advertising, but it is reliant on advertising for a whole lot. Advertising paid for TV broadcasts almost exclusively for more than 50 years before subscription-based services started to make a real dent into the TV model, and somehow we all survived "being bombarded with ads."

    This very website has ads, and yet we all manage to use it. Without those ads, either this site wouldn't exist, or it would need to have a pay-subscription model to survive.

    Ads are not the devil, and having ads targeted to your interest rather than something you care nothing about is hardly the worst thing that ever happened. If I'm going to see an ad, I'd rather it be for something I care about, rather than for a seafood restaurant (I don't eat seafood) or a CD from a Country artist (I don't listen to Country) or whatever. And the people who like seafood and Country music would rather see those ads than the ads for things I like.

    Someone here was complaining that "Google steals your data and gives you nothing in return" - the fact is that Google takes the data that YOU give them when you use their services, and you "get paid" by being given a whole host of Google services to use for free, should you choose to do so. And if you don't want to use Google's services, you are free to use someone else's instead, whether that service is "free" and ad-based like Google's, or whether it's subscription-based; it will be one or the other.

    I respect people's desire to keep their own data private if they choose to, but those same people needn't spread a bunch of FUD and exaggerate, take out-of-context, or outright lie about what companies like Google, MS, Apple, or even BB does with their data. Many of us know better, and if the truth shatters your BB bubble utopia, well that's too bad. You don't need to use any of those apps and services or OSs if you don't want to, but that's no reason to think you are somehow superior to those who do. Those people simply have different priorities and made different choices than you did, and that's OK.
    I'd pay willingly for every single service I use/want to use, as long as my data won't be harvested and I don't see ads.

    I hate ads and I don't need them. The last time I bought something because I saw an ad for it, was probably still in my teens?

    I use ad blockers absolutely everywhere if I can, I switch channels the moment I see an ad and I try to ignore absolutely everything ad like.

    As a transitive and rational buyer, who tries to gather as many important data points as he can, ads serve me no purpose.
    Neither do I click on ads when I am on a homepage. I honestly can't remember when I did that the last time.
    Yes, even I get lured in by featured articles sometimes, but I actively try to not do that.

    The sad reality is, that apparently people simply gave up on protecting their Privacy, because they feel powerless. So they live with it, but studies have shown that they do so reluctantly and don't feel like they are getting their fair share of the deal.
    As an example:
    http://www.cnet.com/news/americans-r...cy-says-study/

    Ads themselves might not be the devil.
    But a centralised user profile that gets shared through different ad services, third parties and sometimes even the government, is the devil.
    I would have exactly zero issues with ads, if apps and sites reliant on them, wouldn't harvest your data.
    That's my main issue, and one I am willing to fight against.

    I don't use Google services except for the occasional YouTube video.
    I have no Facebook/Google+/whatever profile.
    I am not subscribed to any news letters. Neither do I participate in any form of online lotteries and I sure as hell don't have a loyalty card from my super market.

    At the same time, those guys provide the data I need for my job, as a market researcher. So I know about the importance of big data.
    I am just not willing to give my data away that easily.

    The real issue actually stems from a lack of choice though.
    In a free market, if I am unhappy with a certain merchant/product, I can simply go to the other side of the road and get a better/more satisfactory deal.
    But when it comes down to all that ad financed stuff, which is basically everything nowadays, there is no alternative. There is no choice. I can't pay Facebook, for a non-harvested user profile.
    And I also can't pay even more to someone like Netflix, to not harvest my data, because they don't offer that.

    Personally I would wish for some harder government interventions (we have more luck in Europe than in the US concerning privacy, but our jurisdiction still trails behind, compared to the technological possibilities) to finally regulate the **** out of the whole data harvesting.

    Obviously you could tell me to get off the grid, or stop using CB, but that would completely go besides my point.
    I want to be a part of the new possibilities, our current technology offers. But there simply aren't any offers on the market place, I could actually buy.
    It's either accepting the data harvest, or be stripped off of some seemingly integral experiences of our current lives.
    The simple solution would obviously be to regulate in such a way, that EVERY entity having an ad financed model, also has one in which the end user can pay a reasonable amount of money, to not have his/her data harvested.

    Apparently the average FB user is worth 80$ to FB. Let me pay those 80$ a year (obviously with the option of including that into my business expenses), don't harvest my data and stop showing me ads.
    It doesn't sound that hard, to be honest.

    Serious question

    Would you pay for crackberry?

    And your email, and mapping/location services, and all content/news/sports websites...

    !
    If the price is reasonable I would.
    I pay for Arstechnica, to give you an example. And it's totally worth every penny because of their quality content, combined with me not seeing ads.

    I already paid for that back in the day, when all of these things started to gain traction.
    And trust me, early GPS navigation was effing expensive.

    I still pay for my mail services today, and would never use Gmail for anything.

    The problem with CB is that they lack content on the Homepage, and the forums start to feel emptier.
    So CB might actually be a service I am not willing to pay for, if the price isn't attractive.

    It should also be of note that most online content isn't exactly... Well... It doesn't adhere to what I would consider good journalistic practices.
    Blogs also do not have huge costs in terms of distribution, so if said, a BGR would want more than 10$ a year, I'd consider it too much.

    I'm going hiking next week along the Appalachian trail. No ads.

    Z30something
    Nature is wonderful.
    I'd rather go mountain biking/skiing or playing golf, but enjoy your trip!

    Since the current paradigm is such a problem in your opinion, did you have some alternative way for the evil corporate media conglomerates to produce and deliver content and services free of charge to the end consumer? Something that could be implemented without degrading the quality of content and services or destroying companies and jobs in the process would be best.
    It's not free of charge, that's the thing.
    You pay with your own data, that is worth real money.

    If it would be free of charge, without data harvesting and just displaying ads, I wouldn't have any issue with the current business model.
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-08-15 at 09:34 AM.
    arkenoi and lift like this.
    06-08-15 08:54 AM
  4. bombastic's Avatar
    BlackBerry we want replaceable keyboards and launchers.
    No we don't.



    Posted via CB10
    arkenoi likes this.
    06-08-15 09:37 AM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I'd pay willingly for every single service I use/want to use, as long as my data won't be harvested and I don't see ads.
    Ok, you and a small handful of other people would, but the vast majority of people would not - hence the advertising models that currently exist. I'm not defending them as much as simply acknowledging how they came to exist. And a big company, like any of the phone companies, including BB, is going to play to the majority. Even BB collects data and uses targeted advertising.
    arkenoi, TGR1 and mornhavon like this.
    06-08-15 10:08 AM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Ok, you and a small handful of other people would, but the vast majority of people would not - hence the advertising models that currently exist. I'm not defending them as much as simply acknowledging how they came to exist. And a big company, like any of the phone companies, including BB, is going to play to the majority. Even BB collects data and uses targeted advertising.
    Which is why I will go with Apple. I'll pay the premium for the superior customer service, retail presence, and not nickel and diming me for added feature that should be free, or reselling my data to whomever for the "free" OS.

    Posted via Z30
    06-08-15 01:13 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Which is why I will go with Apple. I'll pay the premium for the superior customer service, retail presence, and not nickel and diming me for added feature that should be free, or reselling my data to whomever for the "free" OS.
    Apple has targeted advertising as well, so I'm not sure why you'd see iOS as an advantage there. Apple collects tons of data from their users, just like everyone else.
    arkenoi likes this.
    06-08-15 01:32 PM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    Apple has targeted advertising as well, so I'm not sure why you'd see iOS as an advantage there. Apple collects tons of data from their users, just like everyone else.
    Exactly. Its in their terms of service. They use your data for tons of things including ads.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-08-15 01:56 PM
  9. lift's Avatar
    Which is why I will go with Apple. I'll pay the premium for the superior customer service, retail presence, and not nickel and diming me for added feature that should be free, or reselling my data to whomever for the "free" OS.

    Posted via Z30
    I'm sorry, this is not directed at you, but this is the problem. Almost everybody out there does not think their data is being collected by these companies. People are just not informed and skip right over any terms of service or privacy policies and just keep clicking until they get to the content they want. I absolutely agree that there should be much stricter regulations and more transparency with what is done with your data. Think about that for a minute. YOUR information and data is harvested like sheep and what do you get for it? "Free" content?
    This is why I use BlackBerry and avoid the other three (android, iOS and Windows phone). It should be against the law the amount of information these companies try to harvest about you.
    06-08-15 02:07 PM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    I'm sorry, this is not directed at you, but this is the problem. Almost everybody out there does not think their data is being collected by these companies. People are just not informed and skip right over any terms of service or privacy policies and just keep clicking until they get to the content they want. I absolutely agree that there should be much stricter regulations and more transparency with what is done with your data. Think about that for a minute. YOUR information and data is harvested like sheep and what do you get for it? "Free" content?
    This is why I use BlackBerry and avoid the other three (android, iOS and Windows phone). It should be against the law the amount of information these companies try to harvest about you.
    BlackBerry does it too. I'm going to have to look over Apples ToS to see what info is collected by what. In free apps, not from the phone manufacturer, I expect advertising. If Apple is just collecting it for the iAd service, which free app makers use, then that is one thing. But for core OS functionality and apps integrated in to the OS from manufacturer I do not. These phones are not free or cheap.

    Posted via Z30
    Witmen likes this.
    06-08-15 02:32 PM
  11. LazyEvul's Avatar
    BlackBerry does it too. I'm going to have to look over Apples ToS to see what info is collected by what. In free apps, not from the phone manufacturer, I expect advertising. If Apple is just collecting it for the iAd service, which free app makers use, then that is one thing. But for core OS functionality and apps integrated in to the OS from manufacturer I do not. These phones are not free or cheap.

    Posted via Z30
    Diagnostic and usage data (opt-in), location data (opt-out by disabling), voice input and user data for Siri and Dictation (opt-out by disabling), unique identifiers used by FaceTime, iMessage, WiFi Calling and Continuity (opt-out by disabling), Maps usage data (opt-out by not using it), Interest-Based iAds (opt-out), and search queries & usage data for Spotlight Suggestions (opt-out by disabling). That's in addition to any content you decide to synchronize via iBooks, Podcasts, etc.

    All found here: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iOS81.pdf

    It's not significantly different from BlackBerry 10, actually, except BB10 is missing native alternatives to some of these services. It's also worth noting BB10 will not allow you to disable BBM, which provides interest-based ads using demographic info, your IP address, and your GPS location (though you can opt out of the latter, but your IP might still provide a general location).

    The BBM Terms of Service claim you can opt-out of this using global OS settings, but while that may work on iOS, Android, and Windows Phone, I know of no such setting on BB10 - someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
    06-08-15 03:14 PM
  12. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I'm sorry, this is not directed at you, but this is the problem. Almost everybody out there does not think their data is being collected by these companies. People are just not informed and skip right over any terms of service or privacy policies and just keep clicking until they get to the content they want. I absolutely agree that there should be much stricter regulations and more transparency with what is done with your data. Think about that for a minute. YOUR information and data is harvested like sheep and what do you get for it? "Free" content?
    This is why I use BlackBerry and avoid the other three (android, iOS and Windows phone). It should be against the law the amount of information these companies try to harvest about you.
    Quite the opposite actually. Everybody knows data is being collected. Many simply decide to have that data collection work "for" them. And no, it's not for "free" content. It's for content that you'd otherwise have to pay for. The only difference being that some choose to use their own data as currency instead of paying cold hard cash.

    Why do you think Apple and Tim Cook have recently been touting paid content being less invasive that data driven content? It's not because they actually believe it, but because they're about to announce new services duplicating what other data driven services offer for free. They'll still harvest your data, like every platform does, but then they'll use the media to convince their users to pay yet more money for the privilege. At least Google uses your data as currency (and no, they don't sell your data to anybody else) to provide services. Everybody else collects the same data, but wants to charge you more to utilize it.

    So which is worse? A company that uses your data for your benefit, or a company that collects the same data and then ransoms it for money out of your wallet should you choose to utilize it?



    Penned via Tapatalk
    mornhavon and Tre Lawrence like this.
    06-08-15 03:40 PM
  13. lift's Avatar
    It's also worth noting BB10 will not allow you to disable BBM
    If you never use BBM it is not enabled. So your statement is not totally true.
    06-08-15 07:22 PM
  14. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Turn your BB off, then on. Do not enter a password. You still see emails and calls and messages being received. Do you know what does it mean? There is NO full disk encryption. The key is on the device.

    "You need BES for that", don't be ridiculous.

    And android apps effectively have TOTAL access to data on the phone. Sure you can tune it to do not, but 99% users will never bother. Fail.
    I was referring to BES encryption NOT what you've stated. Also for emails I was referring to S/MIME
    06-09-15 12:04 AM
  15. Litigator08's Avatar
    Quite the opposite actually. Everybody knows data is being collected. Many simply decide to have that data collection work "for" them. And no, it's not for "free" content. It's for content that you'd otherwise have to pay for. The only difference being that some choose to use their own data as currency instead of paying cold hard cash.

    Why do you think Apple and Tim Cook have recently been touting paid content being less invasive that data driven content? It's not because they actually believe it, but because they're about to announce new services duplicating what other data driven services offer for free. They'll still harvest your data, like every platform does, but then they'll use the media to convince their users to pay yet more money for the privilege. At least Google uses your data as currency (and no, they don't sell your data to anybody else) to provide services. Everybody else collects the same data, but wants to charge you more to utilize it.

    So which is worse? A company that uses your data for your benefit, or a company that collects the same data and then ransoms it for money out of your wallet should you choose to utilize it?



    Penned via Tapatalk
    The only problem is that the services anounced aren't fee based outside of the music streaming deal, and at least some of those services will be rendered at the device level, not the server level. Apparently, the cost isn't that users pay for equivalent services. . . the cost is that the services thmselves are still free, just less capable.

    The unfortunate part for the BB user community is that BIS is one of the original internet services. It makes me wonder what then-RIM could have done if it had not been constrained by the carriers desire to strictly limit the amount of data sent over wireless networks.
    06-09-15 12:35 AM
  16. BBUniq01's Avatar
    The one area where the iPhone fails is the size of font used by Safari. Has that changed ? I find that I can change the font for the BB10 browser so that I can read the page. Samsung is better than the iPhone as well. Major fail of the iPhone.
    Don't forget the Reader mode. I find it quite helpful.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-15 07:31 AM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Sorry, the Reader mode is a very poor substitute. This is just an area where the iPhone fails. Many excellent attributes but not the tiny font browser.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 06-13-15 at 09:44 AM.
    06-09-15 02:42 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Ok, you and a small handful of other people would, but the vast majority of people would not - hence the advertising models that currently exist. I'm not defending them as much as simply acknowledging how they came to exist. And a big company, like any of the phone companies, including BB, is going to play to the majority. Even BB collects data and uses targeted advertising.
    My enterprise uses ad blocking on the server side or something like that. Filtering certain tariffic before it gets to the device, if I understood it correctly.
    Which was the case for my BlackBerry and is the case for my HTC.

    Anyhow, I think you are misunderstanding my issue, if your argument will be what the majority does:
    I simply want the option the opt out of the collection and advertising for a certain ransom.
    The problem is, that the option doesn't exist. I don't want FB to stop doing what they do now. I want them to add the possibility to pay 40-100$ a year and not getting tracked, alongside of their ad and tracking financed model.
    If the majority will use that option is completely irrelevant, and the option itself will have 0 influence on FB' business.
    They'll get paid one way or another.

    Never did I say that this must then be their only option.
    And I am pretty confident that the legislator will impose such a rule sooner or later.
    06-13-15 07:35 AM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Quite the opposite actually. Everybody knows data is being collected. Many simply decide to have that data collection work "for" them. And no, it's not for "free" content. It's for content that you'd otherwise have to pay for. The only difference being that some choose to use their own data as currency instead of paying cold hard cash.

    Why do you think Apple and Tim Cook have recently been touting paid content being less invasive that data driven content? It's not because they actually believe it, but because they're about to announce new services duplicating what other data driven services offer for free. They'll still harvest your data, like every platform does, but then they'll use the media to convince their users to pay yet more money for the privilege. At least Google uses your data as currency (and no, they don't sell your data to anybody else) to provide services. Everybody else collects the same data, but wants to charge you more to utilize it.

    So which is worse? A company that uses your data for your benefit, or a company that collects the same data and then ransoms it for money out of your wallet should you choose to utilize it?

    Penned via Tapatalk
    If you really think that people understand what actually happens with their data, I'd probably have to call that PoV as slightly naive.
    Most will have heard somewhere, that data is getting collected and used, but what really happens, how intrusive apps really (and Google Services, but apps alone can already track the eff out of you, or the FB like button) are at the end of the day, is a mystery to everyone not being an extreme technophil.

    It's also obvious, given the recent studies I have seen, that most consumers feel low-balled and aren't giving away their data as willingly as you suggest.
    It's just that those consumers have resigned and more or less accept the status quo of not having a choice.

    Regional differences should also be of note:
    Europeans are seemingly less likely to use all of these data gathering services (Google Now for example. Far lower Twitter and FB users in terms of relative numbers in relation to the total European population, compared to Americans).

    To answer the last rhetorical question:
    It depends on the amount of data collected.
    If we are talking about the exact same amount and I am getting 100 services for free with Google, while getting nothing from Apple, then we have an obvious winner. But only because Apple would be the bigger of two evils here.

    As long as Apple collects substantially less info, I'd say that every $ they ask for that is "justified", simply because Apple would be the only entity in the market, to at least give you the choice of less data harvesting fo X amount of dollars.
    lift likes this.
    06-16-15 02:16 AM
  20. Ksiynder's Avatar
    Take it from someone who's carried four premium Androids: They'll lag in 18 months!
    lift likes this.
    06-16-15 04:10 AM
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