05-08-19 11:16 AM
32 12
tools
  1. Jason Page's Avatar
    Does BB just need to release a private key? Or is it more involved?

    I assume it is a key, for instance anyone could have loaded the ROM in a hex editor looking for a checksum signature to repeat it and BB's security model would have been flawed.

    So is it a simply a private key?

    Seriously I am not a big fan of the e-waste of planned obsolescence and these are capable machines, with elegant keyboards. I could buy some Raspberry Pi adaptation of something like it however nothing comes close to the hardware quality of these devices.

    If BB would want to look good to the "green" community, on Jan 2020, BB can tell us all what we can do so we can re-purpose these devices and that these devices can live on and it's history immortalized in doing so.
    04-20-19 05:42 PM
  2. Jason Page's Avatar
    04-20-19 07:31 PM
  3. Jason Page's Avatar
    What would be any real security concern that would prevent BlackBerry from releasing to the public the authentication pass phrase for ROM installs?

    "A boot method an apparatus are described which reduce the likelihood of a security breach in a mobile device, preferably in a situation where a reset has been initiated. A predetermined security value, or password, is stored, for example in BootROM. A value of a security location within FLASH memory is read and the two values are compared. Polling of the serial port is selectively performed, depending on the result of such comparison. In a presently preferred embodiment, if the value in the security location matches the predetermined security value, then polling of the serial port is not performed. This reduces potential security breaches caused in conventional arrangements where code may be downloaded from the serial port and executed, which allows anyone to access and upload programs and data in the FLASH memory, including confidential and proprietary information."
    04-21-19 08:50 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Does BB just need to release a private key? Or is it more involved?

    I assume it is a key, for instance anyone could have loaded the ROM in a hex editor looking for a checksum signature to repeat it and BB's security model would have been flawed.

    So is it a simply a private key?

    Seriously I am not a big fan of the e-waste of planned obsolescence and these are capable machines, with elegant keyboards. I could buy some Raspberry Pi adaptation of something like it however nothing comes close to the hardware quality of these devices.

    If BB would want to look good to the "green" community, on Jan 2020, BB can tell us all what we can do so we can re-purpose these devices and that these devices can live on and it's history immortalized in doing so.
    What is the "green" subset of the remaining handful of BB10 users?

    Bottom line, BlackBerry isn't going to give away its signing keys for a roomful of holdouts.
    04-21-19 09:42 AM
  5. Jason Page's Avatar
    I am not recommending or encouraging BB to support consumers to necessarily continue with their software OS but to free up the ROM verification boot process to allow customized OSs to be used on these devices rather than let them to become as someone else put it "cheaper than clay targets."
    04-21-19 09:56 AM
  6. Jason Page's Avatar
    These devices would make great Bash terminals for example.
    04-21-19 09:57 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I am not recommending or encouraging BB to support consumers to necessarily continue with their software OS but to free up the ROM verification boot process to allow customized OSs to be used on these devices rather than let them to become as someone else put it "cheaper than clay targets."
    They aren't going to release its signing keys to prevent a few boxes of handsets going to e-recycling either.
    04-21-19 10:04 AM
  8. Jason Page's Avatar
    Conite, I got the same reception from some on the seasoned folks on this board, as you put here when I addressed the concern of the PlayBook OS not syncing. In contrast, BB responded, as I had faxed them my letter and posted here. It is not very optimistic your approach to my question and perhaps I need a reality check?

    I understand that there maybe more layers of concerns with releasing keys than addressing a syncing issue with Playbooks. However I will not remain complicit in such pessimism without a concrete basis. It is simply being a defeatist.
    04-21-19 11:19 AM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    They wont give you the keys to the castle period. It goes against all the BB is based on. They still use QNX to this day in many many secure environments. and they dont give 2 cents to bb10 or the devices at this point. 2 cents is too much time and money spent on a product that sunk the company and a complete monetary failure
    04-21-19 11:45 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Conite, I got the same reception from some on the seasoned folks on this board, as you put here when I addressed the concern of the PlayBook OS not syncing. In contrast, BB responded, as I had faxed them my letter and posted here. It is not very optimistic your approach to my question and perhaps I need a reality check?

    I understand that there maybe more layers of concerns with releasing keys than addressing a syncing issue with Playbooks. However I will not remain complicit in such pessimism without a concrete basis. It is simply being a defeatist.
    As I had indicated in the PlayBook discussion, had the problem been anything more than a broken extension cord, nothing would have been done about that either.

    But as you indicated, this issue is utterly unrelated.
    Jason Page likes this.
    04-21-19 03:25 PM
  11. Jason Page's Avatar
    Thank you folks. Now would the keys be different from BBOS than the QNX ones? I assume all the keys be different depending on the platform, and perhaps different per device. Do you know this that it is one key to the "castle?"
    04-21-19 08:49 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Thank you folks. Now would the keys be different from BBOS than the QNX ones? I assume all the keys be different depending on the platform, and perhaps different per device. Do you know this that it is one key to the "castle?"
    The KEYone or Key2 or different Key altogether?
    04-21-19 08:57 PM
  13. Jason Page's Avatar
    The KEYone or Key2 or different Key altogether?
    Neither, I was attempting to have a discussion on the keys used to authenticate software ROMs on BB10 and BBOS phones so these phones could have a life and purpose beyond the Jan 2020 EOL software support date. I think it would be novel to have all the BB hardware with a Debian Bash terminal for example, and the open source community might take on other projects for the hardware, if it is a found to be a non-issue for BB releasing only certain keys for certain devices like the Bold 9900 or the BB Classic.
    04-22-19 08:13 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Neither, I was attempting to have a discussion on the keys used to authenticate software ROMs on BB10 and BBOS phones so these phones could have a life and purpose beyond the Jan 2020 EOL software support date. I think it would be novel to have all the BB hardware with a Debian Bash terminal for example, and the open source community might take on other projects for the hardware, if it is a found to be a non-issue for BB releasing only certain keys for certain devices like the Bold 9900 or the BB Classic.
    Can you explain the business case for BlackBerry to spend even 1 penny on this?

    Realise that resources would have to be allocated AWAY from other work with high margins.
    04-22-19 08:37 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Neither, I was attempting to have a discussion on the keys used to authenticate software ROMs on BB10 and BBOS phones so these phones could have a life and purpose beyond the Jan 2020 EOL software support date. I think it would be novel to have all the BB hardware with a Debian Bash terminal for example, and the open source community might take on other projects for the hardware, if it is a found to be a non-issue for BB releasing only certain keys for certain devices like the Bold 9900 or the BB Classic.
    Hard to have a discussion about something few here have any clue about. One would assume that each OS has it's own "key". But could be each device has it's own key too.

    While I can think of a lot of cool things that could be done with old hardware... at this point we aren't just talking old we are taking ancient. You don't see groups over on XDA all still trying to get the most out of Nexus One...

    Most people with the skill needed to do what you want done, are going to be more interested in newer hardware... Lot of time and energy would be needed to allow even something simple to run one the different hardware packages that BlackBerry used. WHY would they do it?

    But it's a moot point, as there are clear indications that BlackBerry would never release the said "keys". WHY would they do it?

    Now if they released a KEY3 without a locked ROM.... you would see some interest from the open source community.... maybe.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    04-22-19 08:43 AM
  16. Jason Page's Avatar
    Can you explain the business case for BlackBerry to spend even 1 penny on this?

    Realise that resources would have to be allocated AWAY from other work with high margins.
    Yes to the business case: in my draft letter to Blackberry I make this case:

    "
    I hope that in doing so the open source community will embrace the old RIM hardware for the enthusiast community to inspire independently the continuation of function of these devices [...] and perhaps grow appreciation for these devices as to inspire new market niches of which BlackBerry has the exclusive authority to benefit by addressing, being that a large part of what makes these phones much to be appreciated is the composition of their BlackBerry/ RIM patented hardware modules and overall Trademarked hardware design.
    "
    04-22-19 10:50 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Yes to the business case: in my draft letter to Blackberry I make this case:

    "
    I hope that in doing so the open source community will embrace the old RIM hardware for the enthusiast community to inspire independently the continuation of function of these devices [...] and perhaps grow appreciation for these devices as to inspire new market niches of which BlackBerry has the exclusive authority to benefit by addressing, being that a large part of what makes these phones much to be appreciated is the composition of their BlackBerry/ RIM patented hardware modules and overall Trademarked hardware design.
    "
    An enthusiast group of dozens, or perhaps hundreds, will inspire what new market niches exactly?

    Keep in mind that this is crappy old 2013-2014 hardware.
    the_boon likes this.
    04-22-19 11:27 AM
  18. joeldf's Avatar
    Well, I'd ask, what open source community would really be interested in such old hardware?

    But, go ahead and send that letter in, copy Chen and the BOD, and hope for the best. Just remember that the Board is going to want to see a return (how much money are they going to make doing this?).
    04-22-19 11:28 AM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yes to the business case: in my draft letter to Blackberry I make this case:

    "
    I hope that in doing so the open source community will embrace the old RIM hardware for the enthusiast community to inspire independently the continuation of function of these devices [...] and perhaps grow appreciation for these devices as to inspire new market niches of which BlackBerry has the exclusive authority to benefit by addressing, being that a large part of what makes these phones much to be appreciated is the composition of their BlackBerry/ RIM patented hardware modules and overall Trademarked hardware design.
    "
    Might give them some examples of these "new market niches" and how they monetize them. (as clearly they don't know of any)

    Might also include proof that the open source community agrees with your statement... a petition with signature of a LOT of well known open source developers on it. And then another with all the thousands (or dozens) of BBOS and BB10 active users that are interested in this. (don't think they'll just take your word for it)

    And include some market data that shows that the positives of working with the community don't outweigh the negative affect of unsecuring devices they sold as secure. (mayb seek some legal counsel on their behalf).

    You provide them with some details on how this can benefit them... You might get them to release a tool that would allow the unlocking of the ROMs.... might happen (anything is possible). But with Zero chance of unlocking of BB10 for future installation or as an open source "project". Don't think BBOS matters, but still I doubt they want anyone tinkering with it...
    ppeters914 likes this.
    04-22-19 11:30 AM
  20. Jason Page's Avatar
    Thank you for all your responses.

    I will reach out to some folks in the Open Source community (ie Freenode IRC) and try to get some sort of a metric on interest. Interest is merely a hypothesis of mine based on the fact that market solutions for mini-computers that run Linux is very limited and of low quality. BB has mastered this form factor well and a lot of that intellectually property they own.

    Freenode which I've been involved in for last few years (and prior), they have a ##Law channel so I will look for pointers there, too.

    I just wanted to check here first on the technology used to see how feasible it would be for BB to do this on their part (they may not even know - if that be then reaching out to the inventors on the patent maybe part of this process to bridge understanding on feasibility.)
    04-22-19 12:17 PM
  21. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Thank you for all your responses.

    I will reach out to some folks in the Open Source community (ie Freenode IRC) and try to get some sort of a metric on interest. Interest is merely a hypothesis of mine based on the fact that market solutions for mini-computers that run Linux is very limited and of low quality. BB has mastered this form factor well and a lot of that intellectually property they own.

    Freenode which I've been involved in for last few years (and prior), they have a ##Law channel so I will look for pointers there, too.

    I just wanted to check here first on the technology used to see how feasible it would be for BB to do this on their part (they may not even know - if that be then reaching out to the inventors on the patent maybe part of this process to bridge understanding on feasibility.)
    The long and the short of it:

    - If BlackBerry has to put money into it, it won't be done.
    - If BlackBerry can't get any money out of it, it won't be done.

    You need to realize that all of this old hardware is not exactly a top priority for BlackBerry. In order to gain any traction with the ideas of expanding life, open sourcing, etc, you need someone on the inside that agrees with you on these things and can push such an agenda to the top. Those sorts of people are getting harder to find as much of the old crew is now gone.
    04-22-19 02:32 PM
  22. Jason Page's Avatar
    The long and the short of it:

    - If BlackBerry has to put money into it, it won't be done.
    - If BlackBerry can't get any money out of it, it won't be done.

    You need to realize that all of this old hardware is not exactly a top priority for BlackBerry. In order to gain any traction with the ideas of expanding life, open sourcing, etc, you need someone on the inside that agrees with you on these things and can push such an agenda to the top. Those sorts of people are getting harder to find as much of the old crew is now gone.
    Sounds about right.

    And the open source community is generally against anything propitiatory as if "big brother" is always out to get them.....I asked around in the Freenode community and that is the general attitude.

    Anyways I came across this:
    https://medium.com/@elkentaro/hacker...n-59804d27c245

    So there should be a market for this.

    And I am still open to entertain the ideas towards making a handheld Linux device with the old BB form factor. Just sitting on the idea now and will pursue some more on this after my open heart surgery.
    04-30-19 08:30 PM
  23. Jason Page's Avatar
    Funny thing about asking around in Freenode and on social media, I did drive some new interest from old blackberry folks that thought BB wasn't making phones anymore...so some inadvertent sales will probably come out of my wing swinging around other ideas.
    moosbb likes this.
    04-30-19 08:32 PM
  24. howarmat's Avatar
    Funny thing about asking around in Freenode and on social media, I did drive some new interest from old blackberry folks that thought BB wasn't making phones anymore...so some inadvertent sales will probably come out of my wing swinging around other ideas.
    of BBM Android devices?
    04-30-19 08:39 PM
  25. Jason Page's Avatar
    of BBM Android devices?
    yep keyone / keytwo etc, yes.
    04-30-19 08:43 PM
32 12

Similar Threads

  1. Any Wireless charging for North American KEY2 red edition?
    By smoochypooch in forum BlackBerry KEY2
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-07-19, 10:42 PM
  2. I upgraded my PS4 using my KEY2
    By kile6666 in forum BlackBerry KEY2
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-07-19, 09:23 PM
  3. word predictions for coffee
    By falcotec in forum BlackBerry Motion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-07-19, 02:10 PM
  4. CrackBerry Poll: Have you switched to BBM Enterprise yet?
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-07-19, 10:40 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD