01-21-12 04:04 PM
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  1. kilted thrower's Avatar
    Can someone please explain to me why it matters if you have instant vs push email?
    01-16-12 11:14 PM
  2. eve6er69's Avatar
    Can someone please explain to me why it matters if you have instant vs push email?
    Instant is self explanatory.
    Push is what most other phones provide with the exception of android and gmail accounts I believe. Push isnt instant sometimes. The phone will reach out to the server every x amount of minutes to retrieve new emails in an effort to save battery life and not be connected to data all the time.

    People that get a blackberry for email usually demand on instant to get them the second they came in. When I was in sales I was the same way.
    01-16-12 11:53 PM
  3. MADBRADNYC's Avatar
    Hmm. I always thought is was exactly the opposite...
    Instant=Polling servers.
    Push=Immediate delivery by the NOC.
    01-17-12 12:01 AM
  4. Harley Kid's Avatar
    I agree. And I have an Android. The other day I got an email three hours late. I've also had a few other issues. Really want a 9930. But the idiots at RIM don't seem like they care about fixing the bricking issue!!!
    I had the exact same issues with my Android. I would receive mails sometimes many hours after they were sent or would receive multiple mails (3 to 12) as a batch. Final straw was an email regarding a project meeting that had been moved up and due to the mail issue, I missed the meeting and as well as the opportunity to bid on the job.
    01-17-12 12:56 AM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I had the exact same issues with my Android. I would receive mails sometimes many hours after they were sent or would receive multiple mails (3 to 12) as a batch. Final straw was an email regarding a project meeting that had been moved up and due to the mail issue, I missed the meeting and as well as the opportunity to bid on the job.
    I have never had that problem (not trying to discount yours). In all fairness, all my email accounts are Google-based.
    01-17-12 01:03 AM
  6. sam_b77's Avatar
    Instant is self explanatory.
    Push is what most other phones provide with the exception of android and gmail accounts I believe. Push isnt instant sometimes. The phone will reach out to the server every x amount of minutes to retrieve new emails in an effort to save battery life and not be connected to data all the time.

    People that get a blackberry for email usually demand on instant to get them the second they came in. When I was in sales I was the same way.
    You have got it the other way around.
    Instant is when a phone pulls e-mails using Activesync or Microsoft Exchange. In these cases the phone is always synced with the service.

    Push is what Blackberry does. In this case the device is not actively connected to the network but only pings the server from time to time to tell the server the device is active.
    When a mail hits the server the server instantly pushes the mail out to the device without the device having to pull it.

    The biggest plus point is that savings in data and battery life. Since the device is not constantly synced and only pings, the device uses less data on push. And the same reason leads to better battery life.
    01-17-12 01:07 AM
  7. eve6er69's Avatar
    You have got it the other way around.
    Instant is when a phone pulls e-mails using Activesync or Microsoft Exchange. In these cases the phone is always synced with the service.

    Push is what Blackberry does. In this case the device is not actively connected to the network but only pings the server from time to time to tell the server the device is active.
    When a mail hits the server the server instantly pushes the mail out to the device without the device having to pull it.

    The biggest plus point is that savings in data and battery life. Since the device is not constantly synced and only pings, the device uses less data on push. And the same reason leads to better battery life.
    thats kind of what i was going for. i was laying in bed typing, lol.

    my berry isnt using active sync because i found a way that IT doesnt like but i get work email "pushed" to my phone. i had to go through owa. so in that regard it is pushed email because the server pings every 15 minutes for new emails. it is not instant but it works.

    my gmail on my berry is pretty much instant. if you send me an email to my gmail chances are ill get it within 3 seconds.
    01-17-12 10:54 AM
  8. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If you receive an email "hours" late, it's not the smartphone platform you're using. You have a separate issue with your email provider.

    The difference in delivery methods are measured in seconds or minutes.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Rickroller likes this.
    01-17-12 12:18 PM
  9. tack's Avatar
    Many say they don't get the need to read large attachments. I use my phone for business and receive Excel files, PowerPoint presentations, PDF files, etc from people all the time. I need to be able to read them, and I cannot control how "smart" someone is at compressing them. I have read many a 20 MB PDF file on my phone and it works great, especially if you have a high res screen like the newer phones. We all have different needs.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-17-12 01:26 PM
  10. jajan2's Avatar
    Hi Guys, I kind a new here. I dont know if this thread is the right place for me ask. I have just been using BB9700 for a week. I have BIS plan from my carrier. I set up 2 emails profile one is yahoo and another one is from my company that have been using microsoft webaccess and outlook. I noticed i have been receiving a delay for about 13-15min from my company's email. but i will get email instantly from yahoo. What me off is that i happened to have an Ipad and have both my email set-up as well but i will received email from OWA instantly compare to my BB. Can anyone help me with this? Now i kind a regret having BB and PAY for the service.
    01-17-12 08:27 PM
  11. tack's Avatar
    Hi Guys, I kind a new here. I dont know if this thread is the right place for me ask. I have just been using BB9700 for a week. I have BIS plan from my carrier. I set up 2 emails profile one is yahoo and another one is from my company that have been using microsoft webaccess and outlook. I noticed i have been receiving a delay for about 13-15min from my company's email. but i will get email instantly from yahoo. What me off is that i happened to have an Ipad and have both my email set-up as well but i will received email from OWA instantly compare to my BB. Can anyone help me with this? Now i kind a regret having BB and PAY for the service.
    Before we had BES, we used BIS with an Exchange server in house. Just have your IT department set your email to immediately copy the message to your free BIS email account (e.g. yourname@vzw.blackberry.net). It will be instant push at that point. You then set your reply on your BIS account as you work account email address and automatically Bcc you work account.

    It worked great for me. You won't be able to delete messages from the phone and have them deleted from your account automatically, but the delivery side is great. Just one option.

    This is probably not the right thread btw.
    01-18-12 08:26 AM
  12. xandermac's Avatar
    Listening to the mobile nations CES kickoff (late) and Kevin says OS2 is using activesync, not bis/BES and that he expects bb10 to also be activesync and that blackberry subscriptions will be history.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 01-18-12 at 03:54 PM.
    01-18-12 03:46 PM
  13. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Listening to the mobile nations CES roundup and Kevin says OS2 is using activesync, not bis/BES and that he expects bb10 to also be activesync and that blackberry subscriptions will be history.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    If you listen more closely to ALL the news (I didn't listen to the Podcast)
    But during the interviews at CES, BB10 will use ActiveSync tunneled though BES ( and BIS) so the fees will remain, what will be different is the lifting of the truncation, and the requirements of BES/BIS for email, but RIM services will still require BIS/BES like BBM, App world, etc.
    01-18-12 03:54 PM
  14. xandermac's Avatar
    If you listen more closely to ALL the news (I didn't listen to the Podcast)
    But during the interviews at CES, BB10 will use ActiveSync tunneled though BES ( and BIS) so the fees will remain, what will be different is the lifting of the truncation, and the requirements of BES/BIS for email, but RIM services will still require BIS/BES like BBM, App world, etc.
    That's a bad move. Charging a fee for something that is free elsewhere and still forcing use of BIS. Imagine the uproar if apple required a subscription to get access to the app store or iMessage! The competition will hammer them for that.

    Not to mention corporations. Why pay for and administer an expensive BES when the exchange server will do the SAME job!

    I see even more companies abandoning RIM if this is the case. All devices can use activesync and the blackberry will require a subscription (and BES licenses) for absolutely not reason or benefit.

    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Last edited by xandermac; 01-18-12 at 04:53 PM.
    01-18-12 03:57 PM
  15. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Because BES provides device Policies that Exchange doesn't - for corporations who use or feel they need those policies.

    ANd can someone link a video showing a Blackberry downloading a 100MB email because I'm pretty sure that's pretty much impossible through BIS due to hard cap size limits (300k email, 8MB attachment or something like that). It will get truncated before you get 10% of that downloaded.
    01-18-12 04:26 PM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's a bad move. Charging a fee for something that is free elsewhere and still forcing use of BIS. Imagine the uproar if apple required a subscription to get access to the app store or iMessage! The competition will hammer them for that.

    Not to mention corporations. Why pay for and administer an expensive BES when the exchange server will do the SAME job!

    I see even more companies abandoning RIM if this is the case. All devices can use activesync and the blackberry will require a subscription (and BES licenses) for absolutely not reason or benefit.

    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    PLEASE learn what BES is, PLEASE.

    I don't think it is a bad move at all, BIS still provides a service, though less of a service, BBM is still a service people want, if they don't want it, they don't need to buy BlackBerry's people have choices they are not forced to buy BlackBerry, and if BIS is still providing me with content compression, additional security, and the BBM services I would still gladly pay for it, as would users who are in markets where you pay for your usage.
    01-18-12 05:04 PM
  17. xandermac's Avatar
    PLEASE learn what BES is, PLEASE.

    I don't think it is a bad move at all, BIS still provides a service, though less of a service, BBM is still a service people want, if they don't want it, they don't need to buy BlackBerry's people have choices they are not forced to buy BlackBerry, and if BIS is still providing me with content compression, additional security, and the BBM services I would still gladly pay for it, as would users who are in markets where you pay for your usage.
    I think it's hilarious that you're willing to pay a monthly fee to be able to access appworld! Of all app stores, AppWorld! If this was apple or android you'd be crucifying them.


    Good luck.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    Cleveland likes this.
    01-18-12 05:25 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I think it's hilarious that you're willing to pay a monthly fee to be able to access appworld! Of all app stores, AppWorld! If this was apple or android you'd be crucifying them.


    Good luck.
    It is the other services that BIS provides that I care about, App world is just under that umbrella,

    I care more for my 4:1 data compression I currently get than most other services, as it equates to large dollar savings every year for me.

    And Apple and Android didn't start out with the business model, RIM did. IF they only got Access to App world, and BBM maybe it wouldn't be worth as much, and it remains to be seen what else is done through the tunneling, and the difference between the efficiencies if the model works in BB10

    but you don't obviously know nor appreciate the services that BES/BIS provide, and that is most likely due to your usage requirements and financial position.
    01-18-12 05:33 PM
  19. xandermac's Avatar
    It is the other services that BIS provides that I care about, App world is just under that umbrella,

    I care more for my 4:1 data compression I currently get than most other services, as it equates to large dollar savings every year for me.

    And Apple and Android didn't start out with the business model, RIM did. IF they only got Access to App world, and BBM maybe it wouldn't be worth as much, and it remains to be seen what else is done through the tunneling, and the difference between the efficiencies if the model works in BB10

    but you don't obviously know nor appreciate the services that BES/BIS provide, and that is most likely due to your usage requirements and financial position.
    I'm guessing that apps will still require BIS for use/notifications? ie Facebook, twitter etc?


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    01-18-12 05:35 PM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I'm guessing that apps will still require BIS for use/notifications? ie Facebook, twitter etc?


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk

    I would bet so, as BIS is their push infrastructure.

    Though I suspect if the devices are made to take advantage of Active sync like the PlayBook OS2 Wifi is, which it isn't being tunneled. Then some developers could make apps to not use BIS features and operate outside of BIS tunneling so Facebook, twitter etc could have notifications without a BIS plan.

    but until we see the actual implementation it is all speculation, EXCEPT that RIM did say they will be tunneling ActiveSync through BES so users don't need to worry that they will not get their BES functionality once BB10 rolls out
    01-18-12 05:52 PM
  21. xandermac's Avatar
    I would bet so, as BIS is their push infrastructure.

    Though I suspect if the devices are made to take advantage of Active sync like the PlayBook OS2 Wifi is, which it isn't being tunneled. Then some developers could make apps to not use BIS features and operate outside of BIS tunneling so Facebook, twitter etc could have notifications without a BIS plan.

    but until we see the actual implementation it is all speculation, EXCEPT that RIM did say they will be tunneling ActiveSync through BES so users don't need to worry that they will not get their BES functionality once BB10 rolls out
    So isn't it true that rim can no longer use email as justification for premium subscription fees from the carriers considering that email will now use activesync and is free of the BiS requirement. Sure, it's being tunneled through BES but is that justification enough to charge the carriers extra? The tunneling isn't necessary after-all.

    As of BlackBerry 10 the premium subscription fee will be for access to other services, such as Facebook, twitter, appworld, BBM etc. which on a blackberry will only work with a BIS subscription.

    These are services that the carriers are not required to pay a subscription for, to any company, on any other platform and yet you don't think this is a problem for RIM? They can no longer justify a monthly subscription if all that subscription buys you is access to features that are free everywhere and carriers will not be able to that pass that cost onto the consumer. The carriers will rake RIM over the coals on this issue.

    Granted there is data compression but a side effect of that is slower data. You can argue that point if you'd like but I will speed test my iPhone against your blackberry any day of the week.

    How do you think RIM will sell this to the carriers and the consumer?


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    01-18-12 06:02 PM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    So isn't it true that rim can no longer use email as justification for premium subscription fees from the carriers considering that email will now use activesync and is free of the BiS requirement. Sure, it's being tunneled through BES but is that justification enough to charge the carriers extra? The tunneling isn't necessary after-all.

    As of BlackBerry 10 the premium subscription fee will be for access to other services, such as Facebook, twitter, appworld, BBM etc. which on a blackberry will only work with a BIS subscription.

    These are services that the carriers are not required to pay a subscription for, to any company, on any other platform and yet you don't think this is a problem for RIM? They can no longer justify a monthly subscription if all that subscription buys you is access to features that are free everywhere and carriers will not be able to that pass that cost onto the consumer. The carriers will rake RIM over the coals on this issue.

    Granted there is data compression but a side effect of that is slower data. You can argue that point if you'd like but I will speed test my iPhone against your blackberry any day of the week.

    How do you think RIM will sell this to the carriers and the consumer?
    This is a discussion that will get no where, you don't see any advantages of BES, and seem to think it is only about email,

    As for selling the service to Carriers, there are lots of strategies that I would employ though I don't know the existing carrier deals to actually weigh in on how I would continue to get the service fees,
    01-18-12 06:41 PM
  23. karaya1's Avatar
    Gmail is a wash when it comes to delivery speed on the devices, but when it comes to my military email and university emails it is no contest. It can take my buddies on an iphone/android between 1 and 30 minutes to get email from the university server. It kind of happens at random, despite the settings they use. My military email also comes immediately and that's pretty nice. Also, when i pop in a new SIM in a different country my email keeps flowing like nothing happened.
    sam_b77 and doxa sub750T like this.
    01-20-12 06:26 AM
  24. sam_b77's Avatar
    So isn't it true that rim can no longer use email as justification for premium subscription fees from the carriers considering that email will now use activesync and is free of the BiS requirement. Sure, it's being tunneled through BES but is that justification enough to charge the carriers extra? The tunneling isn't necessary after-all.

    As of BlackBerry 10 the premium subscription fee will be for access to other services, such as Facebook, twitter, appworld, BBM etc. which on a blackberry will only work with a BIS subscription.

    These are services that the carriers are not required to pay a subscription for, to any company, on any other platform and yet you don't think this is a problem for RIM? They can no longer justify a monthly subscription if all that subscription buys you is access to features that are free everywhere and carriers will not be able to that pass that cost onto the consumer. The carriers will rake RIM over the coals on this issue.

    Granted there is data compression but a side effect of that is slower data. You can argue that point if you'd like but I will speed test my iPhone against your blackberry any day of the week.

    How do you think RIM will sell this to the carriers and the consumer?


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    You are a little off on the FREE part.
    In India the BIS costs me an additional $10 on my basic plan. For this I get push notifications for all apps, unlimited data usage on device an 2GB Tethered data per month.

    If I had an Android or iPhone I would have to pay the same $10 (2G) GPRS pack and would not get the 2GB tethering plan.

    I don't know why the carriers give 2GB tethering for $10 BIS, maybe because BB compression cost them less. And this after they share revenue with RIM.
    01-20-12 07:03 AM
  25. sam_b77's Avatar
    Gmail is a wash when it comes to delivery speed on the devices, but when it comes to my military email and university emails it is no contest. It can take my buddies on an iphone/android between 1 and 30 minutes to get email from the university server. It kind of happens at random, despite the settings they use. My military email also comes immediately and that's pretty nice. Also, when i pop in a new SIM in a different country my email keeps flowing like nothing happened.
    THIS!!!
    All my cousins that come from America and who have iPhones, basically have a brick in their hands. They keep begging for some spare phone we might have lying around to pop in a local SIM. They don't dare to bring the iPhone out of Airplane Mode because they know they would be screwed on data charges.

    On my BB, I simply swap SIM cards wherever I go and my mails keep coming. Even if i were to roam Internationally with my country's SIM card, I don't get a $1000 bill when I get back.
    01-20-12 07:07 AM
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