01-21-12 04:04 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yup, you sure can!
    LOl, this argument again, please show me how you get push on your Android for any POP3 email account and IMAP email accounts without imap idle and without exchange?
    01-15-12 05:45 AM
  2. Xterra2's Avatar
    I agree with the OP
    Bb is not best at email, I prefer my ipod touch 4G
    01-15-12 07:06 AM
  3. Fr3lncr's Avatar
    Here's my two cents on why I prefer BB's email system to Android's (from my experience with the Galaxy S2):

    Android:
    - You have a GMAIL app just for your GMAIL accounts. Yes, it is 'push' email, but it is just for your GMAIL accounts. If you want to use another provider, you have to use the other program. Why do you need two apps to do what should be done with one? I prefer everything in one place so maybe this is why this bothers me so much but it just flags the 'fragmented' or 'Frankenstein' feel that Android gives me.

    - Yes, the NATIVE email app can also give you 'push' email on non-gmail accounts (it works with my live.ca account anyways) but you have to give Samsung access to poll your account to push the emails to your phone. (I'm pretty sure I remember it to be Samsung as you have to consent to something to get the push email but then that opens up who does it on other phones). Wasn't too crazy about that as you don't know what they are keeping to get the push functionality.

    - Both the native GMAIL and EMAIL apps don't give you the options that I want for managing my emails. Namely, I want to delete emails from my phone when I am ready, not when they are read say, on my desktop. The only way to get that functionality is to use a third party email app like K9.

    - Another issue with the native GMAIL and EMAIL app (or at least the EMAIL app) is you can't customize things like the standard BCC. I send myself copies of all my emails so I can save them on my desktop and the only defaults you get is to BCC to the same email address you are sending. I prefer to chose where my copies go. For that, I need a third party email like K9.

    - Now, K9 is generally pretty good. You can get all the customization features you want but it gives me one problem that BB never did. Multitasking sucks when you are writing an email. If I start to type an email and want to get a link from a web page and I go to a browser, if I hold the menu to open up the task manager and choose K9, it takes me back to the main app which means I now have to navigate to the email address I was sending from, open up the folders view to choose 'Drafts' and then select my email. How is that efficient. It's bloody awful. It's even worse with Gmail accounts for some reason as every time you leave K9 to get something, it generates a new draft so when I finally send an email, you get every iteration. I once got 7 emails for one that I sent... I thought the people I had sent it to got it 7 times but they only really got it once. Now if you use the return button on the GS2, then it will go back to the open email but that isn't really efficient either if you did multiple steps to get to the information you want to dump into your email.

    Oh, and the other main thing a BB does better on email vs well, anything... Keyboard shortcuts. They make everything soo much more efficient. You have no idea how much you appreciate only having to hit one button vs having to hit 3-4 commands on a touchscreen to do the same thing.

    Needless to say, I never had any of these issues with my BB and every time I send an email on my GS2, I still wish I had my BB. On the flip side, while my Android now frustrates the heck out of me 20% of the time (when I send emails), I do love it for the others things like surfing or for certain apps... which make up more of my usage and why I'll stick with my GS2. (It's the flip side of when I had my BB... for all the email, calendar, contacts, phone calls, it does it soo much better, but the other 80% of my usage is what was driving me up the wall and why I switched).

    My two cents...
    01-15-12 07:07 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    ^^^

    Not trying to change your mind, but there is a thing or two that you are incorrect on. For instant, deleting email from only device; the archive functionality does that.

    K9 can be irritating. Stock Gmail works better for me.

    Having used both, I find BB's way a bit archaic. I like complete cloud sync.

    One thing I miss is email-to-calendar functionality.

    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    01-15-12 07:31 AM
  5. the_sleuth's Avatar
    Well here are the new features in BIS 4.1:

    The BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS) is designed to provide BlackBerry smartphone users with access to email messaging, instant messaging, Internet browsing, and more. BlackBerry Internet Service subscribers can receive automatic delivery of email messages from up to ten email accounts on their BlackBerry smartphones.

    The following is a list of new features being introduced with BlackBerry Internet Service 4.1:

    Improved large email and native attachment support
    Subscribers using BlackBerry smartphones with BlackBerry 7 installed can:

    receive email messages that are up to 11MB in size
    download attachments in their original format that are up to 8MB in size
    view up to 300KB in an HTML email message


    Message pre-population on new email integrations
    Integrating a new third party email address will populate the last 20 messages in the mailbox onto the BlackBerry smartphone. Pre-population will also occur for email accounts which have been previously integrated on the BlackBerrt Internet Service account and deleted, providing that the email account has been deleted for longer than one day.

    No interruption to email flow on SIM swap
    Subscribers who insert a new SIM card in to their BlackBerry smartphone, including SIM cards from a different wireless service provider, no longer experience email flow interruptions. The BlackBerry Internet Service only stops sending email to a smartphone when the subscriber deletes all data from the smartphone, not when a new SIM card is inserted in to the smartphone.

    Due to this change, before selling a smartphone, subscribers must delete all data from the smartphone (security wipe) to protect personal information, including email messages and synchronized contacts and calendar events. For more information on performing a security wipe, please see KB28225.

    Note: This functionality will be available when BlackBerry Internet Service 4.1 is released in all regions.
    New Features of BES 5.0.3 (key new feature--wipe corporate data without deleting personal data):
    BlackBerry Balance Details, Images: RIM's New Way to Separate Work and Play | CIO Blogs

    What's new in BlackBerry Enterprise Server 5.0 SP3 - Release Notes - BlackBerry Enterprise Server for Microsoft Exchange - 5.0.3

    Current attachment size limit is 5 mb on BES 5, but it can be changed to 8 mb for example:

    (Assuming BES 5)

    Open BlackBerry Administration Service
    Go to Servers and components
    Expand BlackBerry Solution Topology
    Expand BlackBerry Domain
    Expand Component View
    Expand Email
    Select the BlackBerry Messaging Agent Instance (for example BES_1_EMAIL)
    Click on Edit Instance
    Select the "Messaging" tab
    Change the Maximum attachment upload/download size

    You might also need to check your Component View > Attachment > Server distiller attachment sizes in case they have been set smaller.
    Also bear in mind this might impact BES performance.

    its not something that his IT dept is limiting, its RIMs NOC.
    Last edited by the_sleuth; 01-15-12 at 07:51 AM.
    blue-b likes this.
    01-15-12 07:39 AM
  6. kevinnugent's Avatar
    But with BIS you are relying on the telco to upgrade the software. Sometimes that either doesn't happen for months/years or not at all.
    01-15-12 08:39 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    But with BIS you are relying on the telco to upgrade the software. Sometimes that either doesn't happen for months/years or not at all.
    BIS 4.1 is implemented everywhere now, for some features you need OS7 though.

    I set up my wife's old Pearl 8120 with an Orange UK pre pay sim for my niece a while ago and her hotmail got populated with 20 older emails straight away.
    01-15-12 08:50 AM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    its not something that his IT dept is limiting, its RIMs NOC.

    It is His IT departments issue, they have yet to upgrade their BES the NEW BES gives I believe an 8MB Attachment Limit, and 11MB file size,

    I will be very sad to see Truncation be fully eliminated with BB10 devices as was kinda eluded to at CES.


    Nah, email being the "best" on BB is a myth for me. All my email is Gmail/Google Apps, so Android works. For me, Android IMAP is unbeatable.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

    For you, YES!, NO one company is hands down best email device for everyone, but this gets back to the out of the box debate that was had in at least 2 other threads,

    RIM has the Best out of the Box email handling, RIM handles all major email servers equally, RIM has unified, and separate mail boxes depending on user preference, RIM has short cuts for navigating long emails quickly and easily, sorting through email lists, RIM's email set up is very easy for even the non tech savvy, OS7 has "Group by Subject" or "Single message" message view, again based on user preference.

    For IT departments it means turn on the phone, lock it down and send it out, and users get the best mobile email experience,
    Consumers have the time to search for apps to bring the functionality of the devices to that of the BlackBerry, and actually in some cases beyond the BlackBerry functionality, but it isn't the device/OS that makes the other devices equal, it is the wonderful 3rd party developers.



    BlackBerry email is not without it's flaws, but There is no device I can get through emails as fast on as my BlackBerry, not even my laptop with outlook preview pane can I go through and reply to emails as quickly mind you it is only really noticeable after 50 emails needing reading/replying to.
    blue-b and ubermanx like this.
    01-15-12 09:06 AM
  9. mtint's Avatar
    Also don't consider BB push email the best one - Exchange/ActiveSync is doing much better job in terms of pushing emails (to iDevices for example), as well in terms of syncing. Not to mention the issues syncing calendar and contacts (on BIS) with Gmail etc.
    (with corporate/BES account no issues at all btw)
    On this side I am quite with the OP.

    The reason "in love" with BB (and email as it implemented) is mostly due to the email client. DeRusett in post 33 more or less explains the strong sides of it, a functionality which really helps me to be productive.

    For example using Gmail on iPhone, Exchange/ActiveSync setup, pushes faster the mails, and syncs calendar and contacts with no issue. But, ... i need to send (single) email with two or three attachments, a must have and basic functionality I think, which is not possible to the best of my knowledge.

    In the end, for me, BB still gives the best overall experience, yet.
    01-15-12 09:38 AM
  10. tack's Avatar
    I think this thread highlights that BB is no longer the clear best in messaging or email, but it is the best for some. I don't agree that it is the best "out of the box" either. I find it worse for me in several aspects, including out of the box setup and features. In some ways I like it the best like shortcuts, unified inbox for all system messages, notifications, etc. I however find the iPhone my favorite all around for several others reasons. I liked Android, but it too has its strengths and weaknesses.

    BB is not clearly the best for all uses, and the bull about it being the best for business is the same. It is the best for some people, not all. I use my phone 99% for business. You all continue to argue from your viewpoints as if all others are wrong. Many of you are still ignorant of other platforms. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses, including BB.
    01-15-12 10:47 AM
  11. Cleveland's Avatar
    Like everyone has an exchange server or wants to pay for it?
    It's part of iOS and it's FREEEEE !
    01-15-12 11:14 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It's part of iOS and it's FREEEEE !
    No it's not LOL, you're telling me if you get a hosted email you no longer have to pay for exchange if you have an iphone?

    Exchange is not free unless maybe if you host your domain with Google. But there's a reason people don't.
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 01-15-12 at 11:25 AM.
    01-15-12 11:19 AM
  13. Cleveland's Avatar
    You wanna bet ? Microsoft exchange is free with gmail/yahoo - since that's what brought it up was a post about someone's iPhone gmail



    Here - and we weren't talking about hosting your domain with google ... It was about gmail I commented on

    http://www.imore.com/2011/02/16/begi...e-push-emails/

    So yes it's free with an iPhone
    Last edited by cleverocks22; 01-15-12 at 11:32 AM.
    01-15-12 11:24 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    You wanna bet ? Microsoft exchange is free with gmail/yahoo - since that's what brought it up was a post about someone's iPhone gmail



    Here - and we weren't talking about hosting your domain with google ... It was about gmail I commented on

    http://www.imore.com/2011/02/16/begi...e-push-emails/

    So yes it's free with an iPhone
    I already knew that, I took it out of context a bit.

    However, Exchange is not free outside gmail, yahoo, hotmail. It's actually quite expensive for what it is. With a Blackberry the only advantage of Exchange would be the contacts/calendar sync as it already has push even without it.

    Other platforms need the Exchange to get push.
    01-15-12 11:55 AM
  15. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Alright ladies and gents, I did a little demonstration video on email delivery on my HTC Amaze compared to my BB 9700. The results (pause for dramatic effect) may shock you. Now I just need to get my lappie to recognize my Playbook (first time setting it up on this machine) to upload the video!!

    ETA: My lappie recognizes the playbook, but it's saying the video folder is empty! Halp!

    ETA2: It was under camera . Video to come shortly.
    Last edited by pantlesspenguin; 01-15-12 at 12:42 PM.
    01-15-12 12:39 PM
  16. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Alright ladies and gents, I did a little demonstration video on email delivery on my HTC Amaze compared to my BB 9700. The results (pause for dramatic effect) may shock you. Now I just need to get my lappie to recognize my Playbook (first time setting it up on this machine) to upload the video!!
    I would hope you used a NON gmail account for the video

    or 2 different accounts, 1 gmail, and 1 non gmail account. as RIM becomes a 3rd party for gmail, with Android being part of the gmail infrastructure.
    01-15-12 12:42 PM
  17. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I would hope you used a NON gmail account for the video

    or 2 different accounts, 1 gmail, and 1 non gmail account. as RIM becomes a 3rd party for gmail, with Android being part of the gmail infrastructure.
    I covered that in my video . I used a gmail account set up through my Mail Droid app and not my main gmail account used to log into Android. I can reshoot the video if you'd like sending to my yahoo account, but the results will be the same.
    01-15-12 12:47 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I covered that in my video . I used a gmail account set up through my Mail Droid app and not my main gmail account used to log into Android. I can reshoot the video if you'd like sending to my yahoo account, but the results will be the same.
    I could care less really, but any video will be picked apart if all the bases are not covered.
    01-15-12 12:52 PM
  19. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Here we go!

    01-15-12 12:53 PM
  20. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I could care less really, but any video will be picked apart if all the bases are not covered.
    Very true, but mine is just one example and really not something to be picked apart because there are so many configurations that could be thrown into the mix. I could've used the stock HTC mail app, or a different mail app for Android. This is just my specific setup, and I know in other cases these results may not be applicable.

    ETA: Here's a video I saw off to the side of mine. This user is using the K9 mail app on Android. I wish we could've seen what email account he sent to!
    Last edited by pantlesspenguin; 01-15-12 at 01:00 PM.
    01-15-12 12:56 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I think this thread highlights that BB is no longer the clear best in messaging or email, but it is the best for some. I don't agree that it is the best "out of the box" either. I find it worse for me in several aspects, including out of the box setup and features. In some ways I like it the best like shortcuts, unified inbox for all system messages, notifications, etc. I however find the iPhone my favorite all around for several others reasons. I liked Android, but it too has its strengths and weaknesses.

    BB is not clearly the best for all uses, and the bull about it being the best for business is the same. It is the best for some people, not all. I use my phone 99% for business. You all continue to argue from your viewpoints as if all others are wrong. Many of you are still ignorant of other platforms. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses, including BB.
    I agree with most of your post. Well said.

    There are a thing or two I miss, but in terms of of overall functionality for me, Android smokes BB email. I posted before how hard it was for me to switch. I whined and complained about email. I got K9 for the unified in-box. I worked HARD to mimic the BB experience... and then, it occurred to me: IMAP makes better sense to me. Sync all the way. Archive old mail. Ability to search ALL email since the beginning of time. Heaven...

    I think BB works for some people... it certainly worked for me for a long time. Just not vibrant enough for my needs at this time. Again, I am Gmail corporately and personally.
    tack likes this.
    01-15-12 01:05 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I agree with most of your post. Well said.

    There are a thing or two I miss, but in terms of of overall functionality for me, Android smokes BB email. I posted before how hard it was for me to switch. I whined and complained about email. I got K9 for the unified in-box. I worked HARD to mimic the BB experience... and then, it occurred to me: IMAP makes better sense to me. Sync all the way. Archive old mail. Ability to search ALL email since the beginning of time. Heaven...

    I think BB works for some people... it certainly worked for me for a long time. Just not vibrant enough for my needs at this time. Again, I am Gmail corporately and personally.
    IMAP doesn't give you push though, on a Blackberry IMAP means instant push.
    01-15-12 01:57 PM
  23. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    IMAP doesn't give you push though, on a Blackberry IMAP means instant push.
    iOS supports IMAP IDLE and who cares about IMAP when you use a mail. Service that support Activesync.

    I think that is what sort of killed RIM for push email. The bulk of consumers have moved to services like Hotmail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Which makes their push infrastructure unnecessary. All because of Activesync support in those services.

    RIM does. Not treat all services equally. Gmail support in BISHOP is better than Windows Live, for example. ActiveSync DOES treat all services (that support it) equally. It's also portable across platforms in that you get push email wherever ActiveSync is supported. A plain POP3 account tethers you to BB for push, and the experience isn't nearly as good as on iOS, Android, or Windows Phone.

    Also calendar and contact synching for Live. And Gmail in BIS is. Notoriously bad. Tns of. Duplicate calendar Entries, for example. Especially birthdays and Holidays. Does not happen on Android, iOS or Windows phone devices.

    Speed of delivery between BIS and ActiveSync. Is basically a wash. Exchange hosting. Can be had for about 7$/mo from a good host. BIS is 5$/mo per user to the carrier. It's not free, even if it doesn't appear on your bill obviously.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by N8ter; 01-15-12 at 02:16 PM.
    tack likes this.
    01-15-12 02:14 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    iOS supports IMAP IDLE and who cares about IMAP when you use a mail. Service that support Activesync.

    I think that is what sort of killed RIM for push email. The bulk of consumers have moved to services like Hotmail, Gmail, and Yahoo! Which makes their push infrastructure unnecessary. All because of Activesync support in those services.

    RIM does. Not treat all services equally. Gmail support in BISHOP is better than Windows Live, for example. ActiveSync DOES treat all services (that support it) equally. It's also portable across platforms in that you get push email wherever ActiveSync is supported. A plain POP3 account tethers you to BB for push, and the experience isn't nearly as good as on iOS, Android, or Windows Phone.

    Also calendar and contact synching for Live. And Gmail in BIS is. Notoriously bad. Tns of. Duplicate calendar Entries, for example. Especially birthdays and Holidays. Does not happen on Android, iOS or Windows phone devices.

    Speed of delivery between BIS and ActiveSync. Is basically a wash. Exchange hosting. Can be had for about 7$/mo from a good host. BIS is 5$/mo per user to the carrier. It's not free, even if it doesn't appear on your bill obviously.

    Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

    Before IOS supports IMAP IDLE the email provider needs to support it and it's not as common as you might think. Some even charge extra for IMAP alone, never mind Exchange.
    01-15-12 02:49 PM
  25. blue-b's Avatar
    I call BS on the OP, because guess what, people make all sorts of claims about bb, android and ios devices and other products outside mobile devices. And you know what, for some reason certain companies get a free pass (Apple has made a ton of really bad blunders that has shocked me has not cost them more than it has...I am an iphone user, I'm just not a fanboy), and calling out something like this as if you are slighted is silly in a forum like this.

    How can two car companies claim to have the top rated mid side car? It is all subjective to how the person does the test, comparisons, and their needs.

    Who really cares, I have an iphone, when it's up in 1 year, I'll probably look at all the different makers and see which one fits me personally better at the time. I visit the site because I have recently purchased a new pb which I have come to really enjoy, and I love the crackberry site but I've been shocked by the amount of similar posts there are like this. I don't feel I have to justify my purchases of other devices on this site, and I don't think people should have to defend or apologize for finding the bb device as their favorite device

    I guess the reason I hate these types of posts are to me crackberry is a home where I can visit to talk about and enjoy the company of other pb enthusiast. And I find posts like this sort of like...myself sitting back enjoying a beer with my friends, and then some sales person feels they have the right to come into my backyard to try to convince me that they have the best product in the world, and why haven't I bought it yet. If and when I want to shop around for products, I'll do some investigation, there are a ton of sites out there to help with my decision, believe me, android and ios doesn't need help, they are a well funded marketing machine.

    In the meantime, I'll sit back and get back to my beer.
    01-15-12 03:00 PM
126 1234 ...
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