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10-08-13 01:13 AM
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  1. birdman_38's Avatar
    I don't believe there's a minimum buy as you can also directly buy devices on the BlackBerry website now.
    Apple sells devices direct and still requires a minimum commitment from carriers. It's a common industry practice.
    paper_monkey likes this.
    10-07-13 08:30 AM
  2. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I don't think BB ever announced that. That was the spin that the media picked up and ran with, as well as the conclusions made after the bleak sales reports. BB stated that they were looking for partners who would help them penetrate the market further with BB10. (Or something to that effect.) Unfortunately, their PR department was pretty inept and didn't do much to counter all the analysts who proclaimed BB to be dead. BB sales declined at least in part due to the lack of a solid marketing campaign and lack of a compelling story regarding BB's search for partners.

    I think you can't necessarily blame Rogers based on their current assessment of the information that's available, but also think it is equally fair for Rogers plan members to be willing to jump ship for their disloyalty. If members can demonstrate in a tangible way that BlackBerry users still have some clout, it sends a message regarding future commitments to Blackberry products to other carriers, and even to US carriers to a lesser extent.





    When you announce that you are looking to go out of business I think all bets are off. This is what BlackBerry did -- very publicly in fact.
    10-07-13 09:14 AM
  3. 22mchan's Avatar
    Guys simple economics. Everyone will do whats in their self-interest. Yeah sure, loyalty can be questioned but in the real world, its all about the $$$

    C001230C6 Suits tv show BBM Channel
    10-07-13 09:31 AM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    FYI: Carriers are about making money, not loyalty, regardless of manufacturer.
    And that's why the OP from Birdman doesn't make any sense at all.

    To ask for loyalty towards Rogers, even though the loyalty of BlackBerry fans is towards BlackBerry....
    Either shows that Birdman didn't understand the issue at hand, or is willfully misrepresenting it.

    Since the premise of Canadian carriers wanting to make money is correct, the issue at hand when talking about loyalty is the following:

    Loyalty from consumers who want the Z30, or BlackBerry to be remotely successful, will logically go in the direction of BlackBerry and NOT Rogers.
    The carrier on the other hand, is loyal to the money he makes, not to his customers.

    As there is a BIG disparity in these two concepts of loyalty, the OP from Birdman just doesn't make sense.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-07-13 at 06:35 PM.
    raino and bombastic like this.
    10-07-13 10:39 AM
  5. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Rogers won't care because there aren't enough hardcore BB users that would switch carriers for one left to bother then.

    This isn't an iPhone. They won't care about you or your Blackberry phone.

    Cry them a river.
    10-07-13 10:51 AM
  6. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    And that's why the OP from Birdman doesn't make any sense at all.

    To ask loyalty towards Rogers, even though the loyalty of BlackBerry fans is towards BlackBerry....
    Either shows that Birdman didn't understand the issue at hand, or is willfully misrepresenting it.
    Except he didn't ask for loyalty towards Rogers. Here was the original post:

    BlackBerry fans expect carrier partners to offer each and every new BlackBerry device, no questions asked. But when a major one decides against it, it's perceived as being disloyal. So what do those same BlackBerry fans do? Threaten to take their business elsewhere, essentially showing an equal amount of disloyalty.

    If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
    There's nothing in there asking for loyalty to Rogers. Nothing. What he does do is point out that if you say you're going to bail on Rogers because Rogers isn't carrying the Z30 and thus doesn't meet your needs (that need being a Z30), that action is substantially similar to Rogers saying they're not going to carry the Z30 because Rogers doesn't believe the Z30 will meet its needs (i.e. make money). He simply identified the hypocrisy of certain people; he did not ask them to change, nor did he ask them to be loyal to anything or anyone.
    10-07-13 11:01 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Except he didn't ask for loyalty towards Rogers.
    He doesn't ask for loyalty, but he compared the two situations:

    1) BlackBerry fans leaving Rogers.

    2) Rogers not selling the BlackBerry Z30.

    The situations are so dissimilar though, that the comparison doesn't make sense anyhow.
    Why, I already explained in my post before.

    The try to make that comparison, shows that Birdman doesn't differentiate enough in his reasoning.

    There's nothing in there asking for loyalty to Rogers. Nothing. What he does do is point out that if you say you're going to bail on Rogers because Rogers isn't carrying the Z30 and thus doesn't meet your needs (that need being a Z30), that action is substantially similar to Rogers saying they're not going to carry the Z30 because Rogers doesn't believe the Z30 will meet its needs (i.e. make money). He simply identified the hypocrisy of certain people; he did not ask them to change, nor did he ask them to be loyal to anything or anyone.
    I do not agree with your interpretation at all, because the way it was said, does not go in the direction (as Birdman introduces the notion of loyalty towards Rogers)
    But let's assume it's true:

    Where is the hipocrisy from BlackBerry fans?
    They would be hypocrites, if they would switch to a carrier who does not carry the Z30 as well.
    But like this, I can't see it.

    BlackBerry fans expect carrier partners to offer each and every new BlackBerry device, no questions asked. But when a major one decides against it, it's perceived as being disloyal. So what do those same BlackBerry fans do? Threaten to take their business elsewhere, essentially showing an equal amount of disloyalty.

    If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
    Again:
    BlackBerry fans never had any loyalty to the carrier, they have it for BlackBerry.
    In this case, how can they be hypocrites because they stay with BlackBerry?

    They can't be, that's why Birdman doesn't make any sense.
    But he isn't the only one.
    Everyone who is loyal towards a piece of tech, doesn't make sense.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-07-13 at 12:54 PM.
    10-07-13 11:34 AM
  8. markus_13's Avatar
    Totally disagree with the OP statement. I choose my business with whomever offers what I am looking for and not on blind faith.

    I enjoy BlackBerry products and if it is not offered I will decide to go somewhere who can offer those services because that is what I need.

    I don't see Rogers as being disloyal as they made a business decision. They can no longer meet my needs as a customer and that is why I will move on

    Posted via CB10
    Tim Heard likes this.
    10-07-13 11:36 AM
  9. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    *grabs popcorn*

    This is why I buy outright and unlock, no need for any of this nonsense of who carries what, because I can find what works, and unlock it.

    And I do agree with the OP.
    10-07-13 12:09 PM
  10. Carruthers's Avatar
    3 year contracts that customers voluntarily signed.
    There are no alternatives in Canada. Rogers is part of a cushy duopoly funded by our socialist gov. Hard to imagine anyone having loyalty to Rogers.

    Posted from my incredible Z10
    10-07-13 12:30 PM
  11. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    He doesn't ask for loyalty, but he compared the two situations:

    1) BlackBerry fans leaving Rogers.

    2) Rogers not selling the BlackBerry Z30.

    The situations are so dissimilar though, that the comparison doesn't make sense anyhow.
    Why, I already explained in my post before.

    The try to make that comparison, shows that Birdman doesn't differentiate enough in his reasoning.



    I do not agree with your interpretation at all, because the way it was said, does not go in the direction (as Birdman introduces the notion of loyalty towards Rogers)
    But let's assume it's true:

    Where is the hipocrisy from BlackBerry fans?
    They would be hypocrites, if they would switch to a carrier who does not carry the Z30 as well.
    But like this, I can't see it.



    Again:
    BlackBerry fans never had any loyalty to the carrier, they have it for BlackBerry.
    In this case, how can they be hippocrites because they stay with BlackBerry?

    They can't be, that's why Birdman doesn't make any sense.
    But he isn't the only one.
    Everyone who is loyal towards a piece of tech, doesn't make sense.

    Posted via CB10
    Missing from your rebuttal was your identification of the part of birdman's post that "ask[ed] loyalty for Rogers." Remember, my post was not about loyalty towards tech at all; it was about rebutting your claim that his post asked for loyalty to Rogers.
    10-07-13 12:33 PM
  12. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Missing from your rebuttal was your identification of the part of birdman's post that "ask[ed] loyalty for Rogers." Remember, my post was not about loyalty towards tech at all; it was about rebutting your claim that his post asked for loyalty to Rogers.
    Then you didn't understand my post, as I never said that he asks for loyalty towards Rogers.

    What Birdman does though, is presupposing that there was/is loyalty towards Rogers, that gets violated when a user switches carriers because Rogers doesn't offer the Z30.
    I didn't say that he means, that people should have more of it or something similar.

    Threaten to take their business elsewhere, essentially showing an equal amount of disloyalty.

    If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
    Here it is, black on white (or the opposite for Q10 owners).

    And as I said in my first post of this thread:
    This is a logical fallacy, as loyalty never was towards Rogers for BlackBerry fans. Their loyalty was meant for BlackBerry and therefore, changing carriers can't be a sign of disloyalty.

    To not have any loyalty towards tech as a whole, was just a personal value that I introduced in the last post.
    The rest of what I said, doesn't get invalidated by that.

    Posted via CB10
    10-07-13 12:48 PM
  13. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Hmm, sign a three year contract or no phone for you! Don't think that captures the spirit of "voluntary", it's a lack of options. For some buying outright, unlocked isn't an option.

    Getting better these days with two year contracts.

    Posted via CB10
    Then go get a bank loan, buy it outright and activated it on whichever carrier you like. If you can't afford to buy it outright then you are relying on the carrier to subsidize the phone for you and they will make you committ to staying until it's paid back. I don't understand why so many people seem to have trouble understanding this...
    you don't get something for nothing.
    10-07-13 12:52 PM
  14. birdman_38's Avatar
    As there is a BIG disparity in these two concepts of loyalty, the OP from Birdman just doesn't make sense.
    So why should Rogers stay loyal to BlackBerry when BlackBerry customers don't stay loyal to Rogers?

    Consumers can say, "It's only business" but carriers could say that too.
    10-07-13 12:56 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So why should Rogers stay loyal to BlackBerry when BlackBerry customers don't stay loyal to Rogers?

    Consumers can say, "It's only business" but carriers could say that too.
    Consumers (read as fans) buying BlackBerries never had any loyalty towards Rogers anyhow, but for BlackBerry.

    Rogers (maybe once had) doesn't have any loyalty towards the consumer, but for money.

    If I would lead Rogers, I wouldn't stock the Z30 as well.
    But that doesn't mean that your OP makes sense.
    This is the case because there is no hypocrisy coming from BlackBerry fans, who want a BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-07-13 at 01:27 PM.
    R Field likes this.
    10-07-13 01:09 PM
  16. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    BlackBerry fans expect carrier partners to offer each and every new BlackBerry device, no questions asked. But when a major one decides against it, it's perceived as being disloyal. So what do those same BlackBerry fans do? Threaten to take their business elsewhere, essentially showing an equal amount of disloyalty.

    If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
    I think what the folks on CB.com are displaying is a level of loyalty to BlackBerry as a hardware/sortware maker vs. the carrier, which is more broadly viewed as a commodity. What they'e saying is that if their carrier doesn't carry the Z30, they will find a carrier that will carry their device of choice.

    I suspect if Rogers decided not to carry the iPhone 5S, they'd lose a gazillion customers to a rival carrier that does sell their phone of choice. I don't know that I'd categorize that as hypocrisy. Carriers have a tougher time differentiating themselves, other than on price, when most carriers offer the same service, speeds, etc.
    10-07-13 01:22 PM
  17. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Is it possible for people to purchase Z30s directly from Blackberry which would run on the Rogers network? if so, then the problem is solved.
    10-07-13 03:48 PM
  18. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Rogers won't care because there aren't enough hardcore BB users that would switch carriers for one left to bother then.

    This isn't an iPhone. They won't care about you or your Blackberry phone.

    Cry them a river.
    Considering Bell/Telus/Rogers have a virtual oligopoly, they don't care about any of their users, no? Does anyone on this forum honestly believe that Rogers cares more about their Android and iPhone users than they do about their BlackBerry users?

    You're all users to them, fyi.

    Regardless of platform, we're all at their whim. I don't care if you have an iPhone, S4, Z10, etc... We all pay the same rates. So this isn't a Rogers issue, nor is it a carrier issue. It's a consumer issue, no?
    10-07-13 05:18 PM
  19. axeman1000's Avatar
    isn't selling yourself the same thing as going out of business? successful businesses do not go out of their way to sell themselves out of desperation like Blackberry.If Blackberry do not succeed in getting acquired, what do you think will happen? This company have nothing to go on...please read their last quarterly earning.
    So the buffalo sabers went out of business because they sold to a new owner?........ yep your wrong, as well as on this. Selling and closing are different.

    Posted via CB10
    10-07-13 05:27 PM
  20. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Then you didn't understand my post, as I never said that he asks for loyalty towards Rogers.
    Hmmm, okay.

    To ask loyalty towards Rogers, even though the loyalty of BlackBerry fans is towards BlackBerry....
    Either shows that Birdman didn't understand the issue at hand, or is willfully misrepresenting it.
    Maybe someone posted this for you.
    10-07-13 05:30 PM
  21. Gnomesane's Avatar
    So why should Rogers stay loyal to BlackBerry when BlackBerry customers don't stay loyal to Rogers?

    Consumers can say, "It's only business" but carriers could say that too.
    Either or, lol...

    Bigger question: Why does anyone care on this forum?

    Rogers, as a business is free to do as they please, no? Why do you give a sh-t in the first place?

    I dumped Rogers two weeks ago for their crappy coverage outside the GTA. They lag behind Bell, fwiw.

    But if people want to dump Rogers for not carrying the Z30, and want to talk about it on CrackBerry, I'm not sure I understand why you care? Honestly, why do you care?
    10-07-13 06:37 PM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Hmmm, okay.



    Maybe someone posted this for you.
    I refered to a part of Birdman's OP. It was my fault to not sepcify, that I didn't say it, with the meaning you attribute to it.
    I formulated it in a bad way.

    Threaten to take their business elsewhere, essentially showing an equal amount of disloyalty.

    If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
    He says that, in this scenario, users would show disloyalty toward Rogers through leaving them.
    It would be equal to the amount of disloyalty shown by Rogers towards BlackBerry.
    This is what I referred to, when I said what you quoted.
    "To ask for Loyalty towards Rogers..."

    He presupposes that users would haven been loyal to the carrier.
    Which is a very dubious claim, because for BlackBerry fans who just want BlackBerries, the loyalty to the carrier, if there is any, would be of secondary nature.

    As the people leaving Rogers, wouldn't have been loyal to the carrier anyway, it can't be hypocrisy on their part to expect Rogers to offer the Z30.

    But I already posted all of that.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-08-13 at 01:33 AM.
    10-07-13 06:46 PM
  23. SoxFan's Avatar
    When you announce that you are looking to go out of business I think all bets are off. This is what BlackBerry did -- very publicly in fact.
    I never thought that would happen so quickly and that this phone would be such a divergence from BBY's practice of evolving better and better productivity tools.

    These are the first Blackberries that actually took steps backwards (along with sideways and into some very strange niche directions) and disregarded their core customers. But it was like a kick in the stomach to hear the company indicate the extent of their market miss and that they are exiting the business. There go expectations that many needed and anxiously awaited improvements will be introduced any time soon, if ever. Best we can do is hope.

    I think there will continue to be niche app developers that try to fill some of the void as BBY itself drags its heals on upgrades to the OS. Some of the developers have said they can only do so much, due to structural limitations of the OS...But, sometimes a niche market can be easier to penetrate than the mainstream market.
    10-07-13 10:35 PM
  24. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    I'm sticking to the birdman's side on this
    10-07-13 10:41 PM
  25. rohetaku's Avatar
    Same here I think he makes some valid point's

    Sent from my BlackBerry
    10-08-13 01:13 AM
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