[RLeeSimon]

Same thing here in states. BIS services get added when SIM card put in device. AT&T in-store rep had no idea. Why should he? Rep had no idea what BIS was/is?

I don't know what it is/was either...

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk

[Invictus0]

They said BB World and other services....

Right now those "other services" is an unknown, but they did say something more than BB World was being shutdown. We won't know unless they decide to share more information, or we wait two years to find out. My guess is, it will depend on the number of users and who those users are. But with the number of security vulnerabilities that have dropped recently.... I doubt in two years you'll find any big accounts using BB10 anymore.

The only other services they mentioned were Travel and Playbook video calling. There's been speculation on CrackBerry about what impact the BB World closure will have on other services but I don't think BlackBerry has said anything beyond the initial post.

I don't expect very many active BBOS or BB10 users in 2020 either, hardware problems are almost inevitable even if security is kept up to date.

[stlabrat]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-since-2009/%2Bmobile+os+activation+market+share+world+wide+20 17&client=safari&rls=en&dcr=0&hl=en&ct=clnk]• Global mobile OS market share 2012-2017 | Statistic[/url]
drop from 0.42% at beginning of the 2017 to 0.18%... however, consider possibly 0.2% were jumped to K1 or motion... and smartphone market are growing, 0.18% is not bad at end of year. (3 years no new handset introduced to the market, that is 2 generations ago for hi tech years... )

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-since-2009/%2Bmobile+os+activation+market+share+world+wide+20 17&client=safari&rls=en&dcr=0&hl=en&ct=clnk]• Global mobile OS market share 2012-2017 | Statistic[/url]
drop from 0.42% at beginning of the 2017 to 0.18%... however, consider possibly 0.2% were jumped to K1 or motion... and smartphone market are growing, 0.18% is not bad at end of year. (3 years no new handset introduced to the market, that is 2 generations ago for hi tech years... )

Link doesn't work for me...

statista.com data is always been questionable, plus we are down well below the margin for error if it were a reliable source of information.

Also K1 and Motion would be lumped with Android.

[anon(2313227)]

BB was reporting money coming from BIS. Take that amount and / $5 and you got the number for that. each quarter take away i think chen onces said 15%.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BB was reporting money coming from BIS. Take that amount and / $5 and you got the number for that. each quarter take away i think chen onces said 15%.

Have they reported that separately somewhere?

[anon(2313227)]

I thought I recall they used to

[joeldf]

They also used to report the number of active BBOS and BB10 users every quarter, but haven't done that in the last few quarters now.

[anon(2313227)]

Have they reported that separately somewhere?

https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post11870965

haahaa here.. use that number.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post11870965

haahaa here.. use that number.

From 2015?

I think last year someone had said SAF was down to about $45 Million, but as I said... I don't know that $5 is an accurate amount per license.

Do think many investors what to know how much SAF is, as they kinda want to know when to expect the growth to show up. QNX and UEM are both very profitable and lots of wins, but with SAF and the pull out of hardware has prevented that from showing up on the bottom line. From when the $45 Million was released as a number, BlackBerry has lost about $60 Million in revenue over the last four quarters.... clearly much of that was hardware as they were still selling hardware at this point last year. But how much?

With BlackBerry's reporting... it just hard to know where they are with anything. Which is probable by design.

[anon(2313227)]

someone mentioned 3-5.. so take an average.. all guessing game anyway and go with 4.

also 5 sounds right. as carriers used to charge $10 for BIS. 50/50 cut sounds about right.

[joeldf]

someone mentioned 3-5.. so take an average.. all guessing game anyway and go with 4.

also 5 sounds right. as carriers used to charge $10 for BIS. 50/50 cut sounds about right.

Except in the US and at least some carriers in Canada. For example, AT&T never charged extra for BIS. Their BlackBerry Data plans for BBOS phones were the same cost as a regular data plan for any other phone. BES, however, was an extra $15 on the data plan.

[pdr733]

In this document:
https://us.blackberry.com/content/da...4FY17%20v1.pdf
they say $49 mill for Q4 FY 2017, out of $286 mill total GAAP revenue.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Back in the day.... with VZW it was $30 for Data and $30 for BB Plan added to the data - with limited phone/texting it was $85 plus taxes that made it right about $100 a users. We did use BESX, but it only required BIS plans.

Today... who know. AT&T might pay nothing in exchange for their support of BlackBerry and BBMo. Some little carrier in Kathmandu might have to pay $25.

We don't know.... Conite might be right at 1.5M each, I kinda thing there are still more BBOS users in other markets....

[eshropshire]

I've seen that posted here, but have not been able to confirm it anywhere else. I can't find any announcement from AT&T. Is it possible this is a rumor? I don't expect BIS to be around forever, but can't confirm a 2018 termination.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Don't follow AT&T that much so I don't know about their 2G plans. Verizon has announced they will be shutting down their CDMA support and their 2G network in 2019. I don't know anything about their BIS plans, but I would guess it will be shutting down at the same time.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Don't follow AT&T that much so I don't know about their 2G plans. Verizon has announced they will be shutting down their CDMA support and their 2G network in 2019. I don't know anything about their BIS plans, but I would guess it will be shutting down at the same time.

Rumor is 2018, but chance are they'll extend match BlackBerry's end of support (even though they really didn't BIS was ending).

[rayporsche]

Don't follow AT&T that much so I don't know about their 2G plans. Verizon has announced they will be shutting down their CDMA support and their 2G network in 2019. I don't know anything about their BIS plans, but I would guess it will be shutting down at the same time.

AT&T 2G network is no more, they stopped back during December 2016 / January 2017 at least in our neck of the woods. BIS on the other hand is still going amid numerous rumors and even wishes from some to end so we could embrace the new and finally become assimilated. Now, for how long BIS will be operational nobody can really tell with conclusive proven facts, evidence and/or certainty.

[rayporsche]

It really doesn't matter when the train stops, it is not a live or death scenario hence it will probably be pretty inconsequential after all.. But as of today it still works and some of us are enjoying every minute of it, by choice of course.
Greetings y'all ...

[stlabrat]

don't have the latest SAF number, but at 3 month end Nov 30, 2017, SAF os 27 million - page 19...it was down from 67 million same period 2016 (devided 3 = 9 million each month, devided by 5.00 or 3.00 per handset, you get the number of BBOS unit = around 2 million out there give and take). data from BB Dec, 20, 2017 Q3 2018 report - remember BB FY started not in CY.

[rayporsche]

June 24th 2018 and still going...................

[idssteve]

Yup, 9930 on Verizon still going. My daily driver yet. Literally. It plays TuneIn radio into vehicle stereo nearly every minute I'm driving. Data never exceeds 1GB on that device. My D60, in contrast, can consume 4GB ++ just sitting charging at my desk... Lol.

Amazingly, I haven't been able to detect ANY additional charge to VZW bill for BIS, in recent years. I'd HAPPILY pay significant SAF for the privilege. BUT, I'm a businessman capable of calculating REAL cost/benefit. A calculation too complex for too many "consumer grade" users, it seems. Which might help explain why they're still "consumers"...??? Lol.

Afaik, BIS seems doomed for termination by 1/1/2020, according to some reports. Verizon has not indicated eol in any obvious manner to me, a long term customer. BUT, they've abruptly done other things without "obvious" notice (still fuming over VVM "surprise"!! Lol).

I'm prepared for BIS (and 3G itself) termination at any time. Which WILL negatively impact MY firm's bottom line. VZW itself seems to be degrading on several levels but BIS still keeps me with them. Once BIS terminates, we'll be re-evaluating my firm's 20+ year relationship with VZW.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yup, 9930 on Verizon still going. My daily driver yet. Literally. It plays TuneIn radio into vehicle stereo nearly every minute I'm driving. Data never exceeds 1GB on that device. My D60, in contrast, can consume 4GB ++ just sitting charging at my desk... Lol.

Amazingly, I haven't been able to detect ANY additional charge to VZW bill for BIS, in recent years. I'd HAPPILY pay significant SAF for the privilege. BUT, I'm a businessman capable of calculating REAL cost/benefit. A calculation too complex for too many "consumer grade" users, it seems. Which might help explain why they're still "consumers"...??? Lol.

Afaik, BIS seems doomed for termination by 1/1/2020, according to some reports. Verizon has not indicated eol in any obvious manner to me, a long term customer. BUT, they've abruptly done other things without "obvious" notice (still fuming over VVM "surprise"!! Lol).

I'm prepared for BIS (and 3G itself) termination at any time. Which WILL negatively impact MY firm's bottom line. VZW itself seems to be degrading on several levels but BIS still keeps me with them. Once BIS terminates, we'll be re-evaluating my firm's 20+ year relationship with VZW.

Who’s the primary alternative carrier where you’re at ?

[joeldf]

None of the major North America carriers charged extra for BIS. And, that never changed.

Speaking from experience with AT&T, an unlimited "BlackBerry Data Plan" (which included BIS) was $30. This was the same as their original regular unlimited data plan they offered back when I first bought my Pearl 8100 in August 2007 (just before the first iPhone release).

BES was a different story. That plan was $45. A $15 per month premium.

[idssteve]

Who’s the primary alternative carrier where you’re at ?

ATT is most likely candidate and we already carry accounts with them and TMo. For N.A. operations at least. I frequently carry my ATT PassPort along side of VZW 9930 and, for remote areas, VZW still proves mostly superior coverage. BUT that performance has been slipping in recent months and we're hearing rumors of rumors about other things that might degrade remote area coverage further..??? Idk that re-evaluation of our VZW relationship would automatically mean termination. Losing BIS thru VZW will certainly focus scrutiny, tho.

[Chuck Finley69]

ATT is most likely candidate and we already carry accounts with them and TMo. For N.A. operations at least. I frequently carry my ATT PassPort along side of VZW 9930 and, for remote areas, VZW still proves mostly superior coverage. BUT that performance has been slipping in recent months and we're hearing rumors of rumors about other things that might degrade remote area coverage further..??? Idk that re-evaluation of our VZW relationship would automatically mean termination. Losing BIS thru VZW will certainly focus scrutiny, tho.

I believe as Verizon repurposes CDMA for LTE, similarly to AT&T repurposes of GSM to LTE, there are performance issues. Seems that any tweaking is to improve service of the largest number of customers, so flagship Android/IOS devices seem to perform better first is what I’d expect. Second tier, carrier supported Android devices will benefit next. It just seems with 5G around the corner that BBMo/TCL sees the opening to play nicely with carriers and benefit from possible second tier OEM reshuffling. It happened before and I think it was plan until recently with TCL national counterparts.

AT&T or Verizon, doesn’t matter. It seems that BIS will be supported until bitter end but I don’t expect either carrier to pay BB to extend beyond 12/31/2019. Forget T-Mobile/Sprint doing anything to rock the boat. Both carriers are too busy with their proposed merger succeeding.

I’m curious if some of these new BB Secure announcements like CAT phone will result in some different PKB hardware you desire in an even more expensive niche form that you might be willing to pay for.