10-19-11 03:48 PM
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  1. CrackBerryTorch9800's Avatar
    So, i recently read a story on The Toronto Star about the Iphone5. Yes, the iphone5. We're not even 100% sure that it even exists or is finished being designed but yet people are getting excited. Its all over twitter, in youtube videos and people are talking about it. So how does Rim create that realm of excitement with its phones, so that upcoming releases are swarmed by thousands of people at the stores. Iphone 4S has sold 4 million copies in 3 days. Many iphone upgrades but also Andriod and Blackberry. So how do we create excitement and how do we stop the bleeding?
    10-17-11 02:43 PM
  2. jd914's Avatar
    So, i recently read a story on The Toronto Star about the Iphone5. Yes, the iphone5. We're not even 100% sure that it even exists or is finished being designed but yet people are getting excited. Its all over twitter, in youtube videos and people are talking about it. So how does Rim create that realm of excitement with its phones, so that upcoming releases are swarmed by thousands of people at the stores. Iphone 4S has sold 4 million copies in 3 days. Many iphone upgrades but also Andriod and Blackberry. So how do we create excitement and how do we stop the bleeding?
    RIM will never create the hype that Apple can. That's probably going to take a miracle.
    10-17-11 02:45 PM
  3. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    To Create the Excite of the iPhone for RIM
    you need to Start with a Cult following brand,
    Follow that with a fantastic new delivery method of media to regular consumers
    Follow that with a Mass marketed low cost product
    Follow that with a Complementary product and push advertising to the limit
    Follow that with making a product simple, so simple a child can use it,
    Follow that focusing on Consumers first
    Follow that with more advertising since consumers give in to advertising

    No one will ever be another Apple, Apple has had a following since they were a dying PC maker, the iPod changed the way people purchased music, and Apple made that method main stream, Apple made All touch screen phones a consumer item, they didn't have the features of touch screen phones 5 years older than them, but they were well marketed and did what job blow needed, and Apple continues on that path, make what Job Blow wants, and market it to all ends,

    Unless someone really wants to take on iTunes, and content delivery, and they do a really good job you can't steal Apples thunder.
    Jaguarr40 and Laura Knotek like this.
    10-17-11 02:50 PM
  4. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    I agree. It has been a source of many topics on CB about RIM and where they fail and to me they fail in 2 critical areas... Marketing and advertising period. The core and fundamentals of any companies trying to sell their products especially when you have so many players in the game.

    If RIM made a concerted effort to do these 2 core business practices and came out with super great products that the public is telling them what they want, they may have a slim chance in getting back in the game and not get bashed as much as they do.

    I stand behind my BB and always will but I agree with many of the points that were made in the previous post before mine.
    Last edited by Jaguarr40; 10-17-11 at 03:01 PM.
    10-17-11 02:54 PM
  5. rdkempt's Avatar
    So, i recently read a story on The Toronto Star about the Iphone5. Yes, the iphone5. We're not even 100% sure that it even exists or is finished being designed but yet people are getting excited. Its all over twitter, in youtube videos and people are talking about it. So how does Rim create that realm of excitement with its phones, so that upcoming releases are swarmed by thousands of people at the stores. Iphone 4S has sold 4 million copies in 3 days. Many iphone upgrades but also Andriod and Blackberry. So how do we create excitement and how do we stop the bleeding?
    Invention and innovation.

    RIM could respark the entire smartphone audience with a great innovative product that revolutionized how we communicate and use mobile devices. Any company could... the problem is, they aren't, and they won't.

    I loved RIM - and I will always evaluate their current offering, and consider them for my next phone... but not today, their offering is pathetic.

    RIM is stuck playing catch up to try to be like the phones that are destroying them, and RIM is so poorly managed and inefficient in comparison, they can't even play catch up. They need to be innovative and capture an audience, being the bad company that's trying to be like the other ones and failing isn't going to inspire their target audience.

    EDIT: I don't think it's about marketing these days although I see it mentioned every day on these forums. Everyone already knows what a Blackberry is and what it can do, and the market is showing that the people don't want what they are offering. If I spent a billion dollars advertising horse **** cereal, made with real manure, it's not going to sell - if I released a delicious cereal which made you stronger, smarter and feel great and put it on the shelves, the consumers will do the rest... telling their friends and family, blogging, etc...
    Last edited by rdkempt; 10-17-11 at 03:11 PM.
    10-17-11 03:01 PM
  6. Pilchard's Avatar
    The iPhone was a revolutionary new type of phone and disrupted the phone market. Blackberries have been around much longer and change has been incremental (and painfully slow). Hence there is little excitement for Blackberries except amongst diehards like all of us.

    I don't believe RIM needs hype, it just needs to start delivering great products in a timely manner. Question is, can they? Here's hoping they can.
    M.Rizk and ADGrant like this.
    10-17-11 03:03 PM
  7. Accidental Post's Avatar
    To Create the Excite of the iPhone for RIM
    you need to Start with a Cult following brand,
    Follow that with a fantastic new delivery method of media to regular consumers
    Follow that with a Mass marketed low cost product
    Follow that with a Complementary product and push advertising to the limit
    Follow that with making a product simple, so simple a child can use it,
    Follow that focusing on Consumers first
    Follow that with more advertising since consumers give in to advertising

    No one will ever be another Apple, Apple has had a following since they were a dying PC maker, the iPod changed the way people purchased music, and Apple made that method main stream, Apple made All touch screen phones a consumer item, they didn't have the features of touch screen phones 5 years older than them, but they were well marketed and did what job blow needed, and Apple continues on that path, make what Job Blow wants, and market it to all ends,

    Unless someone really wants to take on iTunes, and content delivery, and they do a really good job you can't steal Apples thunder.
    Well at least we know where your mind is.........
    M.Rizk and Jake Storm like this.
    10-17-11 03:06 PM
  8. guerllamo7's Avatar
    I hope RIM creates excitement on their products but I don't know if we really want to be like apple in that they create an illusion of awesomeness that is not there. I had an iPhone and it is a fine product but the image people have of it is just far greater than the reality.

    I say RIM just keeps innovation coming and add some decent marketing and it will be fine.

    The new BBX phone, will likely have a TAT UI and that will get people to go wow. I want that but in reality the BB Bold 9930 is the most customizable device out there and is just awesome.
    10-17-11 03:07 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    One thing: make a really, really good product. Start with that.

    It is my belief that RIM mired itself too long in disbelief. When iOS came out, RIM's response was legendarily sad: disbelief. You see the same disbelief with some of our fellow posters (iOS sucks! It's only advertising!).

    I think RIM needs to concentrate on being a niche player. Blow the segment you own away, and the rest will come. Make a concerted effort to create a viable content market.

    Treat your current customers like GOLD!
    10-17-11 03:12 PM
  10. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I agree. It has been a source of many topics on CB about RIM and where they fail and to me they fail in 2 critical areas... Marketing and advertising period. The core and fundamentals of any companies trying to sell their products especially when you have so many players in the game.

    If RIM made a concerted effort to do these 2 core business practices and came out with super great products that the public is telling them what they want, they may have a slim chance in getting back in the game and not get bashed as much as they do.

    I stand behind my BB and always will but I agree with many of the points that were made in the previous post before mine.
    RIM Needs to REALLY come out with a few GREAT products,

    on the software side what I love about RIM is so much is included out of the box, I don't NEED 3rd party applications, I would really like to see RIM expand this, make my phone do more out of the box. without 5 pages of scrolling apps.

    BUT they need to make is easy to have 5 pages or 50 pages of apps!


    If in 2012 RIM announced 2 New phones for launch before Feb 28th,
    1 Full touchscreen device
    1 CandyBar QWERTY

    Both Devices Running BBX,
    BBX to include
    ALL features of OS7 + Features of PlayBook OS2
    BlackBerry Internet Service 5.0 with Cloud storage, Cloud management, and Cloud Sync for devices
    BlackBerry Enterprise Server 5.5 With Cloud Storage plugins, Integrated BlackBerry Balance, Integrated BlackBerry Management Center for groups, Integrated MVS, Support for Android , Windows and iOS devices

    And 2 or 3 Killer Apps to put into advertising,
    if they launched an Advertising campaign that DIDN'T SUCK targeting 3 markets, Consumers, SMB, Enterprise, in the various areas which those 3 markets consume advertising they could really have an amazing turn around and have a hype they haven't seen since the Storm.

    Will that happen? I'd put money on it not happening.
    10-17-11 03:15 PM
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Well at least we know where your mind is.........
    first name that comes to mind when I think iPhone user.
    10-17-11 03:16 PM
  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    One thing: make a really, really good product. Start with that.

    It is my belief that RIM mired itself too long in disbelief. When iOS came out, RIM's response was legendarily sad: disbelief. You see the same disbelief with some of our fellow posters (iOS sucks! It's only advertising!).

    I think RIM needs to concentrate on being a niche player. Blow the segment you own away, and the rest will come. Make a concerted effort to create a viable content market.

    Treat your current customers like GOLD!
    Wait now!
    Apple didn't Start with a Really really good product! they started with a really good marketing program and a strong ecosystem really the iPhone 4 was the first Really really good phone product out of Apple
    but I digress, RIM DOES need a really really good product, and that if far more than just build quality, it is Features, ecosystem, and perception, that is what they need


    I very much agree RIM needs to concentrate on making themselves THE Enterprise provider, and making sure they control that market, it is theirs to lose and they need to protect it, if they make the perfect Enterprise phone, the SMB will want it, the SMB users will have it, and their families will have them and it will trickle down.

    RIM needs to Treat customers far better as well, and they need to take care of their customers customers! leaving support to the carriers is killing them
    10-17-11 03:20 PM
  13. sam_b77's Avatar
    @deRusset,
    Always good to read your posts dude.
    Very concise and on topic. Yours are one of the few posts I look to read, and are always relevant.
    You really should apply for consulting for RIM's marketing. Seriously mate.....
    10-17-11 03:31 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Wait now!
    Apple didn't Start with a Really really good product! they started with a really good marketing program and a strong ecosystem really the iPhone 4 was the first Really really good phone product out of Apple
    but I digress, RIM DOES need a really really good product, and that if far more than just build quality, it is Features, ecosystem, and perception, that is what they need


    I very much agree RIM needs to concentrate on making themselves THE Enterprise provider, and making sure they control that market, it is theirs to lose and they need to protect it, if they make the perfect Enterprise phone, the SMB will want it, the SMB users will have it, and their families will have them and it will trickle down.

    RIM needs to Treat customers far better as well, and they need to take care of their customers customers! leaving support to the carriers is killing them
    Fair enough. I thought the first iPhone was not compelling at all. I believe Apple has upped their game since. I think they stumbled upon iTunes. I don't think even SJ would have guessed how important it would be.

    I don't think RIM needs to clone Apple, but there isn't any shame in adjusting to the climate Apple has created.

    I agree... RIM should strive to wow the Enterprise market, and watch the trickle-down effect.
    10-17-11 03:32 PM
  15. daveycrocket's Avatar
    Well the best phone I have ever had is the BlackBerry 9810, because of this my daughter now definitly wants the torch touch 9860 and my wife is set on the curve 9360, I will also be buying the playbook after OS2 settles.

    I came from an HD2 windows phone, Daughter samsung, wife nokia. Daughter has ipod but definitely does'nt want iphone.
    BlackBerry are good solid devices which will sell themselves, I do think that RIM have to keep their finger on the pulse but please don't try to be an iphone it's old news now. I think that RIM could do more with the carriers, in the UK every carrier shows iphone first. Just my opinion
    10-17-11 03:44 PM
  16. sam_b77's Avatar
    Fair enough. I thought the first iPhone was not compelling at all. I believe Apple has upped their game since. I think they stumbled upon iTunes. I don't think even SJ would have guessed how important it would be.

    I don't think RIM needs to clone Apple, but there isn't any shame in adjusting to the climate Apple has created.

    I agree... RIM should strive to wow the Enterprise market, and watch the trickle-down effect.
    True. RIM trying to replicate iTunes would be a disaster.
    Apple changed the way music is bought, and they have that. They have the first mover advantage and the inertia. For any other service to come and unseat itunes would be a huge task. Why fight on the opponents strong points?
    I don't know where RIM is going with BBM music, but I don't see it rivalling itunes any time soon.
    The enterprise folks are not going to download music and will not be into the whole music sharing scene. That's the consumer arena. And the consumers love itunes.
    RIM should really look to shore up their enterprise offerings. Better syncing across platforms and other crucial enterprise apps.
    One thing I felt they should do is offer .dwg support. So many enterprise folks get .dwg attachments. If RIM was to offer support where others lack things would be different.
    Work with platforms which are enterprise specific, and that's RIM's arena.
    Expand to your strengths....not to the strengths of your competitors.
    10-17-11 03:45 PM
  17. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Fair enough. I thought the first iPhone was not compelling at all. I believe Apple has upped their game since. I think they stumbled upon iTunes. I don't think even SJ would have guessed how important it would be.

    I don't think RIM needs to clone Apple, but there isn't any shame in adjusting to the climate Apple has created.

    I agree... RIM should strive to wow the Enterprise market, and watch the trickle-down effect.
    The first iPhone didn't even have copy and paste, battery life was poor, charge time was long, iTunes was the most bloated system for device syncing,

    I do agree when Apple made the iPod with iTunes, I think iTunes was just how they wanted to control the hardware and the management of their device, they might have known it would be a money generator for them, but I'm sure back when iTunes was made no one realized it would be the product that made Apple break the 100B Market cap, The Hardware aside it is iTunes that allowed the iPod to crush the other MP3 Players, I had FAR BETTER Mp3 players in 2000-2001 than the first gen iPod was, but none had a content sync system, or direct download system, I had to RIP CD's *cough*napster, grockster, bearshare,kazaa *cough*
    10-17-11 04:52 PM
  18. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    RIM Needs to REALLY come out with a few GREAT products,

    on the software side what I love about RIM is so much is included out of the box, I don't NEED 3rd party applications, I would really like to see RIM expand this, make my phone do more out of the box. without 5 pages of scrolling apps.

    BUT they need to make is easy to have 5 pages or 50 pages of apps!


    If in 2012 RIM announced 2 New phones for launch before Feb 28th,
    1 Full touchscreen device
    1 CandyBar QWERTY

    Both Devices Running BBX,
    BBX to include
    ALL features of OS7 + Features of PlayBook OS2
    BlackBerry Internet Service 5.0 with Cloud storage, Cloud management, and Cloud Sync for devices
    BlackBerry Enterprise Server 5.5 With Cloud Storage plugins, Integrated BlackBerry Balance, Integrated BlackBerry Management Center for groups, Integrated MVS, Support for Android , Windows and iOS devices

    And 2 or 3 Killer Apps to put into advertising,
    if they launched an Advertising campaign that DIDN'T SUCK targeting 3 markets, Consumers, SMB, Enterprise, in the various areas which those 3 markets consume advertising they could really have an amazing turn around and have a hype they haven't seen since the Storm.

    Will that happen? I'd put money on it not happening.
    Once again I am not jumping on the Apple vs RIM bandwagon but you seem to have the best grasp on what RIM needs to do as I feel I do as well to even get close to where Apple is and why they are so goood in selling their products. After all who else sells a $3000.00 laptop with the same basic components in it as a PC....hmmm let me see ... Apple and why. Following, Marketing and advertising as I keep saying and oh yeh tell me how they pulled this off....

    http://www.tipb.com/2011/10/17/apple...ion-iphone-4s/

    When Steve Jobs quit the company and gave it up for dead and then came back to make the company what is is today before he died, Do you see anybody at RIM coming close to what he pulled off.

    Once again I want to make it quite clear that I am and will be a die hard BB fan with the new 9930 butthat does not mean that I would not want to try the new iPhone 4s and what it can do for me.

    When you call Apple now they are making it quite clear with their artificial intelligence talking voice that can understand what you are asking for, Is this for home oe business? So they have a complete business dept. even for iPhone now.

    I beleive that RIM has to come up with in the year 2012 and early not 6 phones but 2 good solid cunsumer and business phones that are what the consumer is asking for.

    Don't forget that Apple also will not put any apps on their phone from any other carrier but their own, they simply won't allow it. What you buy from iTunes is then up to you and there are enough free apps both consumer and business to take care of everyone including the devs that have become quite wealthy developing just for iPhone, gee what do you think they know??
    10-17-11 05:17 PM
  19. DJLILM's Avatar
    I think they need to forces and market on one phone at a time instead of puttin out all these different blackberry models with almost the same style.
    10-17-11 07:58 PM
  20. SnoozerBold's Avatar
    Expand to your strengths....not to the strengths of your competitors.
    I agree, but its hard when so many consumers want all the bells and whistles too. There has to be a balance

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-11 08:10 PM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I think they need to forces and market on one phone at a time instead of puttin out all these different blackberry models with almost the same style.
    I heavily DISAGREE

    RIM needs
    Premium devices for Enthusiasts, and Key People in Enterprise.
    They Need Fleet phones for mass purchasing by Enterprises that still offer devices
    They need Low Cost phones for the Teen, and Developing nations
    RIM needs to maintain their Customer base with Keyboard
    RIM Needs to address the growing customer base of Touch screens
    RIM Should attempt to capture alternative form factors on the Premium level (Flip phones for the construction/mining/ourdoors markets)

    I really think What RIM NEEDS to work on is a Solid SDK/IDE that will allow developers to simultaneously test apps across 3-4 device simulators, and compile/create an App that can be installed on a wide range of devices.
    This would also require them to move OS development in a more uniform manner (OS 7 devices Seem to be doing this) and theoretically QNX will be able to do it as well

    RIM's Marketing campaign could be built around a phone for your needs,
    with targeted marketing for specific phones, it would be like Ford Selling the Ford Brand going from Truck, to SUV, to Sedan, to Sports car, showing the whole family, RIM could do that with Dad, Mom, 3 kids, with different lives, different phones, coming together with BlackBerry.
    10-17-11 08:17 PM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I agree, but its hard when so many consumers want all the bells and whistles too. There has to be a balance

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    RIM's Strengths can bring bells and whistles.

    They have a Connectivity between users that BBM fosters, the attempt at making music more social with BBM Music is a good method of RIM working within their strengths but expanding into a Bell/Whistle, they now need to figure out how to get more relevant content on BBMM and how to make people want to share it with their friends, and their friends want to all purchase a song

    REALLY I think RIM needs to address the social element of Music + App world and allow people to upload original music using software to scan the file for potential copy right infringement, and then a user could distribute their own music via BBMM/App world, that would be a FUN exciting idea for RIM, and Like Amazon looking to bypass publishers and bringing Authors in direct RIM could potentially snag a few amazing artists who started off on BBMM.

    Other Strengths of RIM has been traceability of a device, being tied to their servers via PIN, they have a lot of control, pushing this feature to Software houses for Anti piracy and developing PIN specific Key's and user accounts for registration of software would go a long way in Bringing some big houses like AutoDesk, MicroSoft, SAP, Electronic Arts, Activision/Blizzard, Ubisoft...
    10-17-11 08:27 PM
  23. ADGrant's Avatar
    The first iPhone didn't even have copy and paste, battery life was poor, charge time was long, iTunes was the most bloated system for device syncing,
    RIM probably didn't think much of the iPhone either.
    10-17-11 09:04 PM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM probably didn't think much of the iPhone either.
    Don't take that out of context

    You'll see trelawrence said and I paraphrase, start with a REALLY REALLY good product.

    Apple did not, They had a unique product, and a great idea, and the marketing engine to drive it, and the momentum of iPod to pull users in, at a time when mobile phone adoption was still less than 50% in developed nations,

    They were smart and moved to fix their problems, but the cherry picking of my line without context doesn't do it justice
    10-17-11 09:09 PM
  25. ichat's Avatar
    Let's say more apps of better quality and better marketing. If that can be done we can get a storm of people waiting for the device

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-11 09:13 PM
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