02-02-10 08:59 PM
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  1. jlsparks's Avatar
    I'm actually surprised quite a few of you are "ok" with having to deal with no email on your phone sometimes simply because.

    Here's a question... What makes it ok for a Blackberry not to have email sometimes when other smartphone don't have to deal with this? (This question is limited to issues with RIM's NOC outages, not carrier or email provider outages. All things being equal at the time of the outage, BB users are left in the cold when other people with other smartphones don't have to deal with it.) What makes it OK?
    If I compared the amount of time I'm without BIS in a year to the amount of time my co-worker's iPhone is unable to make or receive calls, unable to lock onto a data connection due to poor service (or have her mail queued for hours waiting for a connection), I'm pretty sure my downtime is less than hers, though it's close. So yeah, it is carrier dependent to a certain extent. I know I'm not going to get drops or crappy data coverage on VZW. With AT&T, not so much. I don't rely solely on BIS-E though, but that's just me. I'm not excusing RIM (see my numerous posts about their need to drop the curtains and become transparent about outage root causes, and what they're doing-or not doing-to resolve.) Point is that an Android user could be absolutely crippled in the face of another significant DDoS attack on Google, like what they went through earlier this year. As a google-reliant device they're as at risk to a single point of failure creating a disruption as RIM users are.
    12-25-09 11:33 AM
  2. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    what makes it ok to not have email come to you the minute u get it?

    thats what people on non BB devices deal with
    Actually, you're a bit brainwashed about that. Exchange users have INSTANT push with ActiveSync, GMail users have INSTANT email under Android, POP3 account users on BB are limited to 15 minute poll delays on BIS as apposed to as little as 1 minute on other smartphoens that poll the same account.

    As you can see, the reality of the situation is directly related to what "exact" use of the technology you are using. A LOT of you can't see the trees for the forest. It's obvious RIM has done one thing right... brainwashed the masses about their Push technology being the only one that delivers "instant email".... which is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT!... even for their technology sometimes (i.e. OWA, POP3 accounts on BIS).
    12-25-09 11:36 AM
  3. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    If I compared the amount of time I'm without BIS in a year to the amount of time my co-worker's iPhone is unable to make or receive calls, unable to lock onto a data connection due to poor service (or have her mail queued for hours waiting for a connection), I'm pretty sure my downtime is less than hers, though it's close. So yeah, it is carrier dependent to a certain extent. I know I'm not going to get drops or crappy data coverage on VZW. With AT&T, not so much. I don't rely solely on BIS-E though, but that's just me. I'm not excusing RIM (see my numerous posts about their need to drop the curtains and become transparent about outage root causes, and what they're doing-or not doing-to resolve.) Point is that an Android user could be absolutely crippled in the face of another significant DDoS attack on Google, like what they went through earlier this year. As a google-reliant device they're as at risk to a single point of failure creating a disruption as RIM users are.
    Carrier issues can't really be argued here because we're talking about the handsets and the backend technologies that they use (if at all). If Google went down, Android users would lose email to the GMail accounts they have, but not all the other non-GMail email accounts or data services. Point is, carrier network availability is really the only "key" requirement for other smartphones to function for 99% or more of their functionality. THAT is the key difference here between Blackberry and everything else.

    And yes, AT&T is the iPhones biggest achilles heel. That phone is definitely a bandwidth hog, but no more so then a laptop with an aircard in it. It was ahead of its time and still is in some extent (32GB of app memory is unheard of on other platforms, amazing app/game avilability for it, etc.) You gotta admit, you just don't get that from any other smartphone on the market. That's why it's so popular with the average median. It's a device intended to fit in with people that want to do a lot of stuff in ONE solution. Heck, someone tapped for cash and needing a cell phone, Internet at home, and a PC could easily replace all of those separate devices (Cell phone, PC w/home internet, etc. and their individual costs) with an iPhone. THAT is cross-solution cost savings.

    Bottom line, everyone can argue against many different platform and call various other solutions "toys" and whatnot, but if they sat down and logically thought about the problems at hand, I don't think anyone would argue that RIM doesn't have some major weaknesses in their design.

    Here's a good article to read that I stumbled across this morning. BlackBerry Breakdown Puts Users in Uproar | BlueRidgeNow.com | Times-News Online | Hendersonville, NC It shows a very broad positive and negative aspect of BB and other platforms. Nothing's perfect, but RIM's got a few more things batting against it in my book.
    12-25-09 11:51 AM
  4. Username00089's Avatar
    what makes it ok to not have email come to you the minute u get it?

    thats what people on non BB devices deal with
    This is the most absurd statement I've read this month.

    What flavor is that kool-aid?
    12-25-09 01:06 PM
  5. giantfan30's Avatar
    This is the most absurd statement I've read this month.

    What flavor is that kool-aid?
    trust me thats not the only absurd statement...and i'm talking about both sides of this "arguement"
    for the people that are not happy with RIM...move along and get on another platform that works for you and quit whining about it
    for the people like myself that view and use a BB as a good tool to fill in those times away from our laptops, life will go on
    if you have your financial security dependant on a handheld device that is dependant on BIS AND your carriers network to function properly then hmmmmm
    12-25-09 01:32 PM
  6. hispanola's Avatar
    I'm glad to see this thread here as I've been thinking about this recently as well. I love BBs. I've been a user for 5 years. Until recently, I never had BIS. So, I was without the usage of push email or BBM. For most of that time I relied on Opera for internet access unlike a service book hack was made available that allowed me to use the BB Browser. Once I added BIS I was able to bask in the amazingness of BBM! This also made me susceptible to RIMs outages. The first outage I didn't really experience as I still use the Gmail app for my email. This most recent one left me crippled. First, I must say as a paying RIM customer, that the outage was inexcusable. No excuses, it just shouldn't have happened. Second, it actually made me miss the days when I didn't have BIS. My browser and all my apps went through my cellular providers network directly. Having to now go through RIM left a bad taste in my mouth. Why do so many of the apps require BIS/BES? I know RIM makes the Facebook app, but I know it doesn't need to go through their servers to work. I understand the need for security and understand why the email goes through their server and I can make a case for the browser and maybe just maybe BBM. But why does any other non-core app have to? It leaves us at their mercy, which should never happen. I never understood why I needed BIS to use the Googletalk app when I didn't need it to use BeeJive. So, my first request to RIM would be to detach this requirement from the Browser (because I pay my provider for internet access, not RIM) and all other non-core apps. I would also like them to make the following changes to their OS:

    Cut Reboot/Start-time from 5 to 1min max and aim for 30 sec (if a full-blown computer with slower disk based memory can startup in 30 sec, then a phone should be able to as well)
    Manual Restart Option in software (this should be integrated into the OS rather then having to get a third-party app. I've had an app crash, but not the OS, so I needed to restart the phone. I shouldn't have to take apart my protector for the phone and pull the battery to do this. it's about to be 2010. can RIM and all the other cell makers get with the times)
    Backup Contact Management into BIS (if you can tie over 100 BBM contacts to an email, then perhaps you can do so to phonebook contacts as well. I just hate having to use third party apps for things that I think should be part of the general experience of a phone. even MS has a backup online app for Windows Mobile)
    Enhance phone management (call ignore and reroute) (crackberry.com/call-blocker-professional-epic-applications-updated)
    Barcode Reader/Business Card Scanner (for a business phone that is used heavily for contact management and communication, you would think it would have a built in way for capture the oldest standard form of contact information transportation, i.e. the business card. if you can scan barcodes, you should be able to take a pic of a business card and populate contact fields from it)
    Include Tetris (it might be MOPO, but brickbreaker is crap! How about the all-time champ tetris or license some old gameboy/gamegear/tg-16 games)
    Better include theme (we went from 3 included themes on my first 2 BBs to now one on my OS 5.0 device, which now have almost no information on it. how about something like this, crackberry.com/mord-theme-calx-design-bold-9000-9700-tour-9630-and-curve-8900)
    Better handhelds (I know they need to differentiate their models, but to have the new Curve series not contain a flash is akin to taking steps backwards in technology evolution. How about better resolution cameras, a,b,g,n wifi speeds, 8,16,32gb, tegra chip type multimedia capabilities)
    Cheaper prices (I know most handhelds in the US are subsidized, but why does an 8330 Curve have the same of higher retail price then a iPod Touch or Zune HD though they have 2-3x better technology minus a cell radio? same goes for new models that retail for $600)

    Doubt RIM will take these all under advisement, but at least some should be considered.
    12-26-09 01:35 AM
  7. johnstruck's Avatar
    Can we start with a phone that can ring and vibrate at the same time. And may the ability to block private phone calls

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-09 08:08 AM
  8. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Can we start with a phone that can ring and vibrate at the same time. And may the ability to block private phone calls

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    OS5 has ring and vib at the same time. Maybe you should upgrade. lol
    12-26-09 09:18 AM
  9. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Also, anyone touting "email security" because it goes through RIM's servers is brainwashed. If you have email setup to use SSL (regardless of what type of sync you have, poll or ActiveSync Push, or whatever), it's just as secure as going through RIM. Open your eyes sheep... err, people.
    12-26-09 09:20 AM
  10. Teek's Avatar
    I'd love it if each device was available on all carriers.

    I love my 9700, but AT&T- not so much. I'd love to have a 9700 on Verizon.

    Other than that bring back the shortcuts F- profile and R- for alarm.
    or at least put something else in those slots.

    Or just make the shortcuts user customizable.
    12-26-09 11:21 AM
  11. iversonyin's Avatar
    - A device that compete with DROID/iPhone/Pre - honestly, the Storm does not cut it. I want full browsing capabilities and a physical keyboard. Cut the line up to 3 levels (Curve $50 -> Bold/Tour $100 -> Storm/touchscreen $150-200)

    - Blackberry Apps World - I have to send an email to myself to download apps ? I mean come on, make it more intuitive like iTunes/Blackberry Desktop Manager or better yet, build the app stores in Desktop Manager so I can browse and download+ install apps.

    - A few outages are nothing to bark at, I'm on Sprint I can barely feel the outages. But since a lot of users depend on their Blackberry to make deals/do businesses - the money should be spent on reliability instead of advertisement. At the core, Blackberry is more business oriented- and business users should be taken care of first.
    Last edited by iversonyin; 12-26-09 at 11:31 AM.
    12-26-09 11:27 AM
  12. KoolKeyth5's Avatar
    With no more outages.
    12-26-09 04:07 PM
  13. Media Warrior's Avatar
    [QUOTE=hispanola;4378399]I

    Manual Restart Option in software (this should be integrated into the OS rather then having to get a third-party app. I've had an app crash, but not the OS, so I needed to restart the phone. I shouldn't have to take apart my protector for the phone and pull the battery to do this. it's about to be 2010. can RIM and all the other cell makers get with the times)

    hold alt and rt shift and del down does reset like old windows ctrl,alt,del
    12-26-09 05:21 PM
  14. samson47's Avatar
    All I want is Adobe flash. Please Please Please

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-09 08:16 PM
  15. BB_Storm4me's Avatar
    Manual Restart Option in software (this should be integrated into the OS rather then having to get a third-party app. I've had an app crash, but not the OS, so I needed to restart the phone. I shouldn't have to take apart my protector for the phone and pull the battery to do this. it's about to be 2010. can RIM and all the other cell makers get with the times)

    hold alt and rt shift and del down does reset like old windows ctrl,alt,del
    Or some other hard button combo. This would be especially true with the Storm because there is no keyboard.

    Another option to make an OS that would never require a power disruption (battery pull) to reset it (I know it's a wild arse dream but what the heck). At least with my Palm Treo 700p someone made battery cover with a hole to access the reset button Palm put there.
    12-26-09 09:34 PM
  16. johnstruck's Avatar
    OS5 has ring and vib at the same time. Maybe you should upgrade. lol
    Is it supplied/supported by rogers and rim ,these are a few of the queries I have ,not to mention I'm not really that comfortable wiping and reloading and os ,as I don't own a pc. So I guess the risk is less loading and learning the permissions than a wipe and os reload

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-27-09 09:04 AM
  17. Reed McLay's Avatar
    Is it supplied/supported by rogers and rim ,these are a few of the queries I have ,not to mention I'm not really that comfortable wiping and reloading and os ,as I don't own a pc. So I guess the risk is less loading and learning the permissions than a wipe and os reload

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Currently, the Bold has v4.6xx carrier supported OS software. Version 5.xx has not been approved for release.

    Some members are comfortable with installing beta code, others, not so much.
    12-27-09 09:43 AM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I'm actually surprised quite a few of you are "ok" with having to deal with no email on your phone sometimes simply because.

    Here's a question... What makes it ok for a Blackberry not to have email sometimes when other smartphone don't have to deal with this? (This question is limited to issues with RIM's NOC outages, not carrier or email provider outages. All things being equal at the time of the outage, BB users are left in the cold when other people with other smartphones don't have to deal with it.) What makes it OK?
    Other SmartPhones do deal with NO e-mail, but it is pocketed rather than wide scale, so I might be with out e-mail today, with a buddy sending them, then a switch the next week, with a RIM it is ALL or NON, that is why it is so much more publicized. it isn't news of tulsa oklahoma is with out e-mail, it is News if ALL of North America is with out.



    Now what RIM could do to better satisfy me would be.
    Build 5 phone lines
    Flagship
    Standard
    Entry level
    CandyBar
    TouchBase

    I want the Flagship line to be cutting edge, what ever cutting edge is at the time, show some inovation
    I want the standard line to be proven features from the previous generation flagship, I want stability, and battery life, I want to know this isn't the lastest and greatest features, but tested true ones that will work and can be deployed across a company confidently, like the 88XX and the 83XX were able to be.


    I want an Entry Level phone, that, well really that is the 83XX no bells and wistles, low resolution screen, no Bling, something cheap to make, and cheap to sell, something you can give your father / kid as a gift so they have basic BB functionality with out all the app memory, or media abilities, they can later upgrade, but it gets BBM and e-mail into the hands of the simple.

    CandyBar, I don't really care about this line, but I have freinds who LOVE their pearls, and would even trade them for a new tour, or bold, given the chance, they like the size, so this is a line that needs advancement, it should sit between flagship and standard, in terms of technology,

    Touchbased is a given, from what I read the Storm2 is a pretty good Touchbased device, I want to see RIM keep pushing this, make the device thinner, more responsive,



    NOW what else RIM can do
    I want RIM to focus on some ADD on hardware, under the battery they need to add a connector point, so that the removal of the battery can result in adding a hardware component that interfaces with the BB, so a Build in Battery / 8MP camera or a Built in Battery / Business Card Scanner, or other crazy ideas I have not thought about, just make it easy to "build" added hardware.


    on the Software Side, I would like them to make a contact manager for the desktop, and that contact manager should be echo'd on the BB,
    that contact manager would Build a hierarchy for contact lists. if I have 10 people at the same company in my list I could connect them in the contact manager via hierachy.
    in the BB I could SAY "Call Company XXX office", and it would call the shared office number of that company, with out extensions. I deal with this often, I have about 40 extra contacts in my addressbook I had to make just so I didn't have to say call Jim Smith, and figure out which Jim Smith I wanted, so I call company XXX, and company YYY
    I need a place to put 5-7 email addresses, and I need 4-7 phone numbers per contact, I want 2-3 PIN locations,

    I want a "histroy of contact" option, so if Gary moves companys I don't change everything I "update contact" and it keeps all his old contact info archived, so I can later come back and say oh hey Gary didn't you used to work for Blah blah, for future converations.

    I want Blackberry to build a call reporting software into the contact manger, keep last 3 reports on the device archive the rest to the desktop, right now Outlook sucks, and lotus notes sucks for this process, no one has embraced the mobile call reporting yet, and building it into the BB would kick other smartphones out of the market in the business world again, because they are trying to take that market from RIM.


    I want a New Browser, and I want a better map application, I want multiple calendars with multiple colours,


    For form factor I want
    120mm x 72mm x 11mm @ 140grams

    perspective on that is
    BB 9000 (Bold)
    114mm x 66mm x 15mm @ 136grams
    BB 9630 (Tour )
    112mm x 62mm x 14.2mm @ 130grams
    BB 9700 (Bold)
    109mm x 60mm x 14.1mm @ 122grams


    I could go on for days I am sure, but will wait until the next post to go heavier
    12-27-09 10:15 AM
  19. Mamaluka's Avatar
    DeRusett, if I owned RIM, and I happened upon your post above, I would hire you on the spot. Then again, if I owned RIM, they would be bankrupt and so would I, due to my grandiose spending mentality, inability to save a buck and I would be on my 3rd or 4th divorce from all the hot chicks we would hire as our personal assistants....but we would have a heck of a lot of fun DeRusett!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-27-09 11:16 AM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    LOL Mamaluka, I will be trying to get into RIM in 2 years time, Need to hold on to my current Job to pad my resume and make sure I don't have to apply for Entry level jobs

    But glad to know atleast one person out there agree's with my view
    12-27-09 11:26 AM
  21. OptiPrime's Avatar
    all i want is OFFICIAL 5.0 for the 83xx series. Yes, RIM has released several new devices (Bold 2, Storm 2, Curve 8900, Curve 8530) but correct me if im wrong, i think the 83xx is still the best selling series to date. Although the new phones are great, they aren't enough of a change for me to justify the upgrade personally. for example, the Storm is still the only touchscreen BlackBerry. I think in 2010 RIM will introduce a REAL upgrade w/ many new features. until then, i would like to see upgrades for its older devices just my 2cents.
    12-27-09 12:26 PM
  22. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Other SmartPhones do deal with NO e-mail, but it is pocketed rather than wide scale, so I might be with out e-mail today, with a buddy sending them, then a switch the next week, with a RIM it is ALL or NON, that is why it is so much more publicized. it isn't news of tulsa oklahoma is with out e-mail, it is News if ALL of North America is with out.
    de, I know how the outages work. lol My point is, out of all the systems I manage, within the past year or so, the people complaining to me about email outages have ALWAYS been BB users. All my other users don't ever have issues and they're all usually ActiveSync users on various platforms.
    12-27-09 12:32 PM
  23. noaim's Avatar
    By not having outages as often as they did recently that would serve me better
    12-27-09 12:46 PM
  24. dchawk81's Avatar
    RIM needs to gut another old PC so they have a backup server to put online when the primary goes down.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-27-09 01:06 PM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    de, I know how the outages work. lol My point is, out of all the systems I manage, within the past year or so, the people complaining to me about email outages have ALWAYS been BB users. All my other users don't ever have issues and they're all usually ActiveSync users on various platforms.
    Bb users notice the outtages more that is why they complain, when was the last bb outtage outside of these 2 this quarter? I don't ever remember another outtage, and even so this outtage effected my bbm and my BIS emails only, I still had BES though not fast, and my imap on gmail worked.

    US bb people just likes to complain when we can

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-27-09 03:50 PM
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