02-02-10 09:59 PM
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  1. BB_Storm4me's Avatar
    ...

    The purpose of this posting is to focus on providing a place to discuss what we as users would like them to do keep us as satisfied customers. Hopefully someone from RIM will actually read these postings and take our input seriously. If they don't, it will be to their peril.

    Given many of stumbles by RIM of late, I think its fair to ask what is going on and discuss it.

    In addition, I'm really getting sick of the RIM and Storm apologists posting here, some of which are moderators. They go so far as to accuse those having problems or difficulties as the cause of said problems, just because they don't have the same problem. Enough of the "go sell your (insert model here) and leave" comments. Please try to have a little more empathy on those who have started to hate on their device.

    Let's face it, we all don't have the same phone, even though it may be the same model. The variations in manufacturing are one of the variables to one having a problem or not.

    Ultimately its the design of the OS that should protect the device from crashing regardless of the application. Blaming an application for crashing, lags, and memory leaks is fine, but shouldn't the OS help prevent this from happening?

    I'm happy for all you BB users that don't have problems. And perhaps there many thousands, maybe millions, that don't have problems and have no need for CrackBerry.com and other blogs. But I think many of us are here because we have problems from time to time and are looking to improve our BB user experience.

    So.... how can they better satisfy you?
    Last edited by Reed McLay; 12-25-09 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Content
    12-24-09 09:11 PM
  2. BB_Storm4me's Avatar
    Boy I wish I could put this debate to bed once and for all. I have been using BB since 1999. The S1 was the worst Berry ever on release. It made GREAT strides and my wife is very happy that I gave her mine. She runs the official 5.0 OS w/o a theme and hasn't done a bat pull since I handed it to her.

    All that said - this is RIM's fault. PERIOD. Name me one other so called "Smart Phone" that requires regular battery pulls. That is constantly having issues with memory allocation and 3rd party applications. RIM has been building OSes for more than a decade. In fact the most shocking thing is that even though most new OSes are 5.0 the damn platform is still 4.0!! Pick up a droid or HTC or even the i- thing, and show me how you can bring the device to its knees in seconds right out of the box! Give me an S1, S2 even a 9700 and I will show you a spinning clock in seconds of use. Let alone normal use slowing the device down like an old Win 98 PC.

    When the BB OS was created the only available mobile language that could create the secure enviroment was Java. But almost a decade later the structure of the BB NOC and the coding has been left far behind. For nearly 5 years RIM has been using duck tape, wires and plastering over what should be allowed to die with dignity and respect.

    The S1 is an decent phone, a sub-par smart phone and the worst BB ever brought to market. The rate of hardware failure (measured internally - and no I will not indicate how I know) is astounding! That middle button, made of metal gets too hot and burns into the screen. No way to fix it. Extended use accelerates the burn in. After 1 year most S1 users can see the burn in on a white screen like the browser. Not to mention the failure to secure a membrane below the surface and all the issues that resulted from dust getting onto the c/b let alone under the screen. From a software standpoint - after more than 500 iterations of the OS have been compiled and released to partners to test, RIM still can't get the F-in camera zoom right. Its a f-in cell phone camera for g-d's sake! Let alone all the little bugs, and added items that don't quite work yet. Flick scrolling still has no inertia/physics sensitivity and works like garbage in some parts of the core OS.

    RIM has for a decade and continues to rely on the fact that older IP consultants and designers consider them the only secure game in town for government, law firms etc.. Like any entrenched entity, they would rather not change and have little incentive to do so, unless they want to increase market share; but if it means wholesale changes, they would rather consolidate the buisness/ government share they have then truly innovate and create. Let alone do the hard work necessary to put software and hardware out in the market place that works as well as it should. And I will merely point to the new 5.0 developer's kit as proof.
    This is so well said I thought he needs to be shared again...
    12-24-09 09:14 PM
  3. jlsparks's Avatar
    They can continue to satisfy me by staying on track: incremental improvements across the line. DevCon was a breakthrough, and will be the source of innumerable improvements in 2010 and beyond. Your reference to "recent stumbles" I presume refers to the two disruptions this month. Centralized computing is inherently susceptible to failure. Ironically, so is decentralized computing. The good news is that when BIS-E goes down you can still get your mail on your PC/Mac/etc. The bad news is when gmail goes down can't.

    I'll stick with RIM. They're not perfect, but who is? And really, at the end of the day, no matter how important it may *seem* to me, it really and truly is a phone with additional features. I'm grateful that I have more meaningful ways to focus my energies.
    12-24-09 09:18 PM
  4. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    EMP in the NOC and let's start again....








    Too drastic?
    12-24-09 10:21 PM
  5. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    OK, seriously though... let's view this from the idea that the Blackberry is a Dumb Terminal (and we all know what happend to those).

    Dumb Terminals were replaced with PCs that have self sufficent OSs that run locally and ALL computing functions can be accomplished localling WITH or WITHOUT (key factors here) the need for a server backend. To help control the local user access and behavior of the device, the network server (if the PC is connected to one) can push down local security policies that control what and what can't be done on the local PC.

    That being said, the Blackberry needs to move to this evolution. Right now, far too much stuff happens through the NOC at RIM. The BB needs to move in the direction that other smartphones have moved to... (i.e. self capable devices that DON'T depend upon a server backend to function.) If RIM can find a way to take the best parts of their existing security infrastructure and bond it with the ideals of a traditional Smartphone in design, I think they will be UNSTOPABLE!

    These BBs need to move away from the Dumb Terminal "feel" they have right now. Every time someone at RIM farts in the NOC, a lot of people can't do anything with their BBs.



    BTW, before someone bring this up... Today's principal idea of a Dumb Terminal is that of a Thin Client... and last time I checked, even those can function as complete local systems without the need to be tied into a Terminal or Citrix server. Just a little FYI if RIM feels they need a "vision/direction" of what the next BB idea should be closer to.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 12-24-09 at 10:31 PM.
    12-24-09 10:29 PM
  6. SpaceMonster's Avatar
    They can better satisfy me by giving all of us threaded sms! It just doesn't make sense not to have it. I can't live without txt messaging, sure it would be great to use BBIM but most people I know do not have BB's so it's almost pointless for me. Why don't they release an update to the native sms giving us threaded txt messaging. At least!
    12-24-09 10:38 PM
  7. hondateg91's Avatar
    They just need more phones geared toward the consumer side with better broswer and a major OS overhaul.
    12-24-09 10:48 PM
  8. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    They can better satisfy me by giving all of us threaded sms! It just doesn't make sense not to have it. I can't live without txt messaging, sure it would be great to use BBIM but most people I know do not have BB's so it's almost pointless for me. Why don't they release an update to the native sms giving us threaded txt messaging. At least!
    You don't want Threaded SMS just yet... it's riddled with "history" bugs. Coversations will be all over the place in short order after database restores and other circumstances.
    12-24-09 10:51 PM
  9. SpaceMonster's Avatar
    You don't want Threaded SMS just yet... it's riddled with "history" bugs. Coversations will be all over the place in short order after database restores and other circumstances.
    OOooh I see. I had it on my Palm Centro and it is great when it works like it's supposed to. It's the one thing about my BB that continues to irritate me. But I'm in love with it anyway.
    12-24-09 10:59 PM
  10. SpaceMonster's Avatar
    You would think they would have perfected threaded txt messaging I mean isn't that pretty much what bbm is?
    12-24-09 11:11 PM
  11. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    You would think they would have perfected threaded txt messaging I mean isn't that pretty much what bbm is?
    BBM's no where near "perfected" yet. lol

    But hey, let's stay on topic... I feel like we've gone off on an SMS tangent here.
    12-24-09 11:15 PM
  12. Username00089's Avatar
    I no longer care what they can do to best serve me. Come the beginning of the year I'm putting my two BB's on eBay. As far as I'm concerned it's become unreliable. In the last week with the two outages I missed two important emails and that just about did it for me. I'm not going to continue to use it on a daily basis while I wait for them to drastically improve their product. If in a couple of years I'm still alive and RIM has improved its product maybe I'll consider it again. My iPhone does just fine for me and ironically enough has been more reliable for email. And I can't believe that I just typed that. Never would I ever have thought I'd be saying that.
    12-24-09 11:17 PM
  13. SpaceMonster's Avatar
    I konw another way they can satisfy me. Would it have killed them to supply us with a few different color themes? God forbid we jazz up our BB's just a little bit. I've been griping about it all over the place but those are two things that irritate the hellish out of me. I know these are things that don't interest most people, but some of us do care about it. It's those of us that buy the pink and the violet phones. There IS a BB market for us too you know.

    Other than that my phone is perfect enough :-)
    Last edited by SpaceMonster; 12-24-09 at 11:32 PM. Reason: to add that my phone is perfect enough
    12-24-09 11:26 PM
  14. NoDuff's Avatar
    I would never claim to have a vast knowledge of BB's or their flaws however I have seen them in use in both home and business use. Some of the posts so far have attacked RIM's centralization of its network and making devices reliant on the RIM servers being up. What people seem to forget is that this is what has allowed RIM to successfully gain the security/accreditation needed to provide a smartphone option to many governments/large businesses world wide. Like it or not other smartphones seem to be years away from providing proven/secure communications, a must for any government/security conscious business. Just do a search for "EAL Blackberry/iphone/smartphone" to see some information on where Blackberry stands in relation to the others WRT security.

    I for one like idea of "centralized" services and having a device who's only job is to relay information to me. If I had my way I wouldn't keep any information on my BB, I would rather keep it (information) somewhere away from where I am; where it can't "fall out of my pocket". What I would like to see improved is the reliability of the RIM network, and an option put in place that would allow you to wipe the phone remotely for BIS users (other than using a third party app).
    Last edited by NoDuff; 12-25-09 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Typo!
    12-25-09 12:26 AM
  15. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I would never claim to have a vast knowledge of BB's or their flaws however I have seen them in use in both home and business use. Some of the posts so far have attacked RIM's centralization of its network and making devices reliant on the RIM servers being up. What people seem to forget is that this is what has allowed RIM to successfully gain the security/accreditation needed to provide a smartphone option to many governments/large businesses world wide. Like it or not other smartphones seem to be years away from providing proven/secure communications, a must for any government/security conscious business. Just do a search for "EAL Blackberry/iphone/smartphone" to see some information on where Blackberry stands in relation to the others WRT security.

    I for one like idea of "centralized" services and having a device who's only job is to relay information to me. If I had my way I wouldn't keep any information on my BB, I would rather keep it (information) somewhere away from where I am; where it can't "fall out of my pocket". What I would like to see improved is the reliability of the RIM network, and an option put in place that would allow you to wipe the phone remotely for BIS users (other than using a third party app).
    THIS! I too would like to have such an option included with BIS capabilites, accessible via the BIS Portal website. Would be so awesome!!!
    12-25-09 01:12 AM
  16. phonejunky's Avatar
    I would never claim to have a vast knowledge of BB's or their flaws, however, I have seen them in use in both home and business use. Some of the posts so far have attacked RIM's centralization of its network and making devices reliant on the RIM servers being up. What people seem to forget is that this is what has allowed RIM to successfully gain the security/accreditation needed to provide a smartphone option to many governments/large businesses world wide. Like it or not other smartphones seem to be years away from providing proven/secure communications, a must for any government/security conscious business. Just do a search for "EAL Blackberry/iphone/smartphone" to see some information on where Blackberry stands in relation to the others WRT security.
    I for one like idea of "centralized" services and having a device who's only job is to relay information to me. If I had my way I wouldn't keep any information on my BB, I would rather keep it (information) somewhere away from where I am; where it can't "fall out of my pocket". What I would like to see improved is the reliability of the RIM network, and an option put in place that would allow you to wipe the phone remotely for BIS users (other than using a third party app).
    couldnt have said this any better myself.
    Last edited by amazinglygraceless; 12-25-09 at 03:20 AM. Reason: fixed quote
    12-25-09 01:19 AM
  17. dredayholiday's Avatar
    I'm just annoyed with RIMs lack of ingenuity and change. I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to make a browser that is worth the amount of money they charge for their phones. I don't understand why they only have one touch screen device (yes I know technically two...). I just feel like RIM refuses to take the necessary steps to make a truelly complete device. Not a device that appeals to one set of people but also does other things... Why can't they borrow ideas and features from some other phones and incorporate it into their design model? I'm gettong fed up with new phones that aren't too much different than what's already out there...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-25-09 03:16 AM
  18. NoDuff's Avatar
    I'm just annoyed with RIMs lack of ingenuity and change. I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to make a browser that is worth the amount of money they charge for their phones. I don't understand why they only have one touch screen device (yes I know technically two...). I just feel like RIM refuses to take the necessary steps to make a truelly complete device. Not a device that appeals to one set of people but also does other things... Why can't they borrow ideas and features from some other phones and incorporate it into their design model? I'm gettong fed up with new phones that aren't too much different than what's already out there...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree a better browser would be a GREAT change, as more and more web based apps are used this is crucial. However I think this change should be 3rd party app driven more so than RIM driven. My reasoning comes from a perspective of security.

    In order for BB to keep their Common Criteria certification they must be able to mitigate the potential for intrusion by all means including web based. Unfortunately to accomplish this it is plausible that they had to restrict some functionality to accomplish this. My understanding is that in most cases there is always a trade off between security and usability. (Any security gurus please feel free to correct me if I am way out to lunch)

    Now if a browser (or any software) was developed/released by a 3rd party (Firefox / Google / MS) than this would more or less absolve RIM from having to prove the security level of the software and still allow them to keep their certification.

    To sum up: There should be a better browser available...from a 3rd party app.
    12-25-09 11:28 AM
  19. Reed McLay's Avatar
    I'm just annoyed with RIMs lack of ingenuity and change. I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to make a browser that is worth the amount of money they charge for their phones. I don't understand why they only have one touch screen device (yes I know technically two...). I just feel like RIM refuses to take the necessary steps to make a truelly complete device. Not a device that appeals to one set of people but also does other things... Why can't they borrow ideas and features from some other phones and incorporate it into their design model? I'm gettong fed up with new phones that aren't too much different than what's already out there...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Unfortunatly, that is cause for a patent infringement litigation. The consequences of "borrowing" ideas from your competitor does not fly.

    Research in Motion must independently work up a solution that may resemble what the competition has done, but they have to be able to prove it was done blind in court.

    What can Research in Motion do to improve my BlackBerry experience?

    Replicate the NOC in Switzerland and Australia. Redundancy is a good thing, Google never goes down.

    EMP the NOC, LOL
    12-25-09 11:43 AM
  20. jlsparks's Avatar
    Unfortunatly, that is cause for a patent infringement litigation. The consequences of "borrowing" ideas from your competitor does not fly.

    Research in Motion must independently work up a solution that may resemble what the competition has done, but they have to be able to prove it was done blind in court.

    What can Research in Motion do to improve my BlackBerry experience?

    Replicate the NOC in Switzerland and Australia. Redundancy is a good thing, Google never goes down.

    EMP the NOC, LOL
    +1 for replication. -1 for "google never goes down." It does and has, frequently, just look at the history on their status page, or google (ironically) "gmail outage." As I stated in my 1st post in this thread, BB users are advantaged in the case of a BIS-E outage, in that they can still get their mail from computer-based mail clients/OWA/other webmail. When gmail goes down, conversely, it's down across the board: no device mail, no pop, no imap, no web... nothing. I much prefer to be inconvenience, potentially, for a few hours on my BIS accounts than to lose all mail functionality. And to to common cry of "I lost $____ thousands of dollars of business because BIS was down!": if you are so relient on your BIS account to operate your business, you really have no one but yourself to blame. There are innumerable ways that you could and should mitigate against disaster. Just like RIM needs to step up and prove that their infrastructure isn't going to suffer single point of failure or cascading failure disruptions, you as an individual should, likewise, ensure that your BlackBerry isn't your possible single point of failure. Laptops with broadband cards, landlines, a sat pager, a line on another carrier. These are all options to consider, based on your business needs. Additionally, it's relatively cheap to migrate your business domain (I assume you're using a username@mycompany.com address for your business, not a gmail address...) to a hosted Exchange carrier that supports BES. You'll spend $30 more per month per device, but that expense, like all your other business expenses, will go to reduce your net business income for tax purposes, making the real cost far less. Individual responsibility baby. In the final analysis, if you're solely reliant on BIS-E for your business you're setting yourself up for disappointment, and not doing what you should be doing to mitigate.
    12-25-09 11:59 AM
  21. Mamaluka's Avatar
    +1 for replication. -1 for "google never goes down." It does and has, frequently, just look at the history on their status page, or google (ironically) "gmail outage." As I stated in my 1st post in this thread, BB users are advantaged in the case of a BIS-E outage, in that they can still get their mail from computer-based mail clients/OWA/other webmail. When gmail goes down, conversely, it's down across the board: no device mail, no pop, no imap, no web... nothing. I much prefer to be inconvenience, potentially, for a few hours on my BIS accounts than to lose all mail functionality. And to to common cry of "I lost $____ thousands of dollars of business because BIS was down!": if you are so relient on your BIS account to operate your business, you really have no one but yourself to blame. There are innumerable ways that you could and should mitigate against disaster. Just like RIM needs to step up and prove that their infrastructure isn't going to suffer single point of failure or cascading failure disruptions, you as an individual should, likewise, ensure that your BlackBerry isn't your possible single point of failure. Laptops with broadband cards, landlines, a sat pager, a line on another carrier. These are all options to consider, based on your business needs. Additionally, it's relatively cheap to migrate your business domain (I assume you're using a username@mycompany.com address for your business, not a gmail address...) to a hosted Exchange carrier that supports BES. You'll spend $30 more per month per device, but that expense, like all your other business expenses, will go to reduce your net business income for tax purposes, making the real cost far less. Individual responsibility baby. In the final analysis, if you're solely reliant on BIS-E for your business you're setting yourself up for disappointment, and not doing what you should be doing to mitigate.
    I agree with this dude. I rely heavily on my blackberry to supply me with customer's service requests, BUT, what I receive on my blackberry is merely a convenience for me to be notified quickly. My office is monitoring the same email account(s) via a PC. So when BIS went down twice in the last week, sure..I was in the dark, but my business was still operational and the only inconvenience was I had no clue there was any work until I checked in with the office.
    So, how can RIM better satisfy me?
    Make a larger phone for Christ's sake. Stop with this smaller is better mentality. Realize that not everyone wants a phone that can be easily slipped into a shirt pocket. I've never put my phone into my shirt pocket...I don't want manboob cancer. I keep my phone as far from my body as possible all day. I don't even wear my bluetooth headset unless I am speaking on the phone.
    so, please rim, make a LARGER phone
    12-25-09 12:16 PM
  22. CGI's Avatar
    To me its pretty simple;

    1) Get the hardware quality back. Those of us who have been around awhile know what I am talking about... Blackberry has really slipped here.

    2) A web browser that is actually useful

    3) Fewer devices; more significant change when they are released, less grief for developers, and again... a focus on quality

    4) A better camera
    12-25-09 12:20 PM
  23. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I'm actually surprised quite a few of you are "ok" with having to deal with no email on your phone sometimes simply because.

    Here's a question... What makes it ok for a Blackberry not to have email sometimes when other smartphone don't have to deal with this? (This question is limited to issues with RIM's NOC outages, not carrier or email provider outages. All things being equal at the time of the outage, BB users are left in the cold when other people with other smartphones don't have to deal with it.) What makes it OK?
    12-25-09 12:23 PM
  24. drinka4yearz's Avatar
    I don't think rim will ever satisfy anyone because we are going to always want more and better also if they made the perfect bb they won't make the money they make cause who would want to spend all this money on a new bb if the one you have is perfect. Its all a money thing and they get us every time they release a bb with the new one coming out 6 months later when they should had just released the better one first......lmao.... I guess that's the banana in the tailpipe thing....lmao

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-25-09 12:27 PM
  25. shankeith's Avatar
    I'm actually surprised quite a few of you are "ok" with having to deal with no email on your phone sometimes simply because.

    Here's a question... What makes it ok for a Blackberry not to have email sometimes when other smartphone don't have to deal with this? (This question is limited to issues with RIM's NOC outages, not carrier or email provider outages. All things being equal at the time of the outage, BB users are left in the cold when other people with other smartphones don't have to deal with it.) What makes it OK?
    what makes it ok to not have email come to you the minute u get it?

    thats what people on non BB devices deal with
    12-25-09 12:28 PM
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