1. sivan's Avatar
    My experience after owning the 9700 and the 9780, was with two top of the line phones that never quite worked as promised and were barely supported with one, maybe two minor updates.

    I'm still a customer, just got my 9930, for lack of alternatives. My perspective is very jaded already after two and a half years. When I hear about QNX I already know my phone will be forgotten in a few months.

    But maybe I haven't been around long enough.

    In the past, has RIM ever held to its promise of keeping devices up to date, or can the current chaos of software releases be simply attributed to a transition period?
    Last edited by synthmole; 09-03-11 at 01:14 AM.
    09-03-11 01:07 AM
  2. gammaboy's Avatar
    I had a pearl, a tour, a bold, a torch and now a 9780 and playbook. The pearl worked the best (although I expected the least from it)
    I will probably stay with blackberry because the phones are amazingly durable. My kids Droid and my wife's Ipad have way better apps but my industry and lifestyle require a tough phone that handles physical abuse that a touchscreen could never provide.
    I am very disappointed in my playbook and apps for my 9780. Hopefully the android player comes through (I am tempted to buy a droid tablet or ipod touch just to have the productivity apps my coworkers do)

    (and I should mention I have lurked here for 3 years but now with my playbook I registered. I don't hate Blackberry I just hope for more)
    Last edited by gammaboy; 09-03-11 at 01:31 AM. Reason: forgot info
    09-03-11 01:29 AM
  3. sam_b77's Avatar
    The 9700 and the 9780 were solid phones with nothing much wrong with them. The battery life was unbelievable and that alone made the phone worth it.
    As for updates,why fix something that isn't broken.And unless I'm mistaken the 9700 started out as an OS 5 device and yet OS 6 was released for it. I don't know what else support you were seeking for it.
    Regarding the whole 9900 and QNX debate, you must have known about the impending switch to QNX next year and RIM has been pretty vocal about the fact that OS7 devices will not be able to run QNX when it comes out. Yet you purchased the 9900. I don't think there is anything to complain about The phone is what it is. I'm a bit puzzled with the mentality that if you buy something from a company then it should be upgraded infinitely. You pay for and get he product which is there on the shelve. You do not get an further rights as a customer. If you do not lime what it is then don'tbuy it. Electronics anyway have a life of a few months. If you want the latest and the greatest be ready to shell out $600 every 3 -4 months. Otherwise make peace with what you have.
    It would be like buying a car and then whining about the car companies not paying for gasoline.
    09-03-11 01:32 AM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    What do you mean by "never quite worked as promised and were barely supported with one, maybe two minor updates"?

    I've had a 9000 and 9700, and both devices worked as promised. I was able to browse, get email, use IM, use BBM, use Twitter, use streaming audio, take pictures and share them with friends, use SMS, and make phone calls.
    09-03-11 01:36 AM
  5. sivan's Avatar
    The 9700 was supposed to be compatible with OS6, and it's able to run it, but very poorly.

    The 9780 was the replacement for the 9700 that RIM supposedly made to run OS6. It did, but the browser fails to open web pages routinely and force closes. The browser was the main reason for OS6, without it working reliably there's not much that can be said to work in that OS. It's already on version 650, so the likelihood of it being fixed are low.

    To the poster accusing me of being naive and dodging my responsibility as a consumer, read my post again. I am not asking for QNX on my phone. I'm talking about continued support for the existing OS.

    So back to RIM: has the company ever followed through on supporting devices past their launch or is the current mess due to a transition period?
    09-03-11 01:54 AM
  6. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    The 9700 was not designed to be OS 6 compatible. It was an OS 5 device. The fact that RIM even released OS 6 for the 9700 shows that they wanted to support the device for as long as possible.

    As far as your OS 6 browser issue goes, perhaps you need to reinstall your OS? Sounds like yours is buggy. My wife had OS 6 on her Curve 9300 and it did not have these problems.

    As far as QNX goes, I am sure RIM will continue to support OS 7 devices for a time after the first QNX handset is released. However I don't expect any "upgrades" for BB OS 7 - probably just bug fixes and such,
    Laura Knotek and _StephenBB81 like this.
    09-03-11 11:06 AM
  7. sivan's Avatar
    The 9700 was not designed to be OS 6 compatible. It was an OS 5 device. The fact that RIM even released OS 6 for the 9700 shows that they wanted to support the device for as long as possible.
    That's an odd way of putting it. RIM was developing OS6 when the 9700 was released. It made the design decisions based on what devices it was going to run on. They clearly said it was going to run on the 9700. They knew what the device specs were, they made the software. It's not like OS6 was handed to RIM out of the blue and then it turned out that the 9700 couldn't run it.

    Oh sure, you can run OS6 on the 9700 if you're okay with crippling memory leaks and a browser that can't open most pages. How did that happen with RIM having full control over OS6 development? The reason is simple: supporting the 9700 was a low priority.

    As far as your OS 6 browser issue goes, perhaps you need to reinstall your OS? Sounds like yours is buggy. My wife had OS 6 on her Curve 9300 and it did not have these problems.
    I don't need to reinstall anything, I've done it enough times already. Just browse the 9780 forum and see for yourself if I'm alone. Seriously, you're completely of touch if you're not aware of browser problems on the 9780. Again, the browser is the primary reason for OS6 in the first place. It was going to bring a usable browser to the Blackberry. The project was a failure.

    As far as QNX goes, I am sure RIM will continue to support OS 7 devices for a time after the first QNX handset is released. However I don't expect any "upgrades" for BB OS 7 - probably just bug fixes and such,
    Why are you so sure about this? The examples I just gave show the opposite. What you thought was RIM's adequate support for existing devices is simply not adequate at all. And given that RIM controls the hardware and software it develops, how did that happen if not by discounting the needs of current users?
    Last edited by synthmole; 09-03-11 at 12:49 PM.
    09-03-11 12:44 PM
  8. Economist101's Avatar
    I'm a bit puzzled with the mentality that if you buy something from a company then it should be upgraded infinitely.
    I'm puzzled as well, since the OP wasn't asking for "infinite" upgrades. In 2011, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that your phone might be supported and upgraded, software wise, for at least the length of the typical contract.
    09-03-11 01:30 PM
  9. c_86's Avatar
    i never ever had a problem at all with my 9780 and the browser... not once... it was a bit slow, but that could be easily chalked up to the radio in it and it not being fast enough to pull the data. then there is the processor which again can be attributed to the slowness of the browser... a device that is using barely a 600 mhz processor trying to compute alot of data, of course its going to be slow...

    and dont worry i dont think RIM will stop supporting the new lines of BBs anytime soon... no one knows for sure when QNX will be released with the new phones... it could be q1 or q2 of 2012... RIM will take there time with that as they have alot riding on it... and the reason why they will not stop supporting them. enterprise... it takes a very long time for an enterprise to move to a new platform... so they essentially will not start supporting QNX phones until probably a year after they are released...
    09-03-11 01:32 PM
  10. sivan's Avatar
    i never ever had a problem at all with my 9780 and the browser... not once... it was a bit slow, but that could be easily chalked up to the radio in it and it not being fast enough to pull the data. then there is the processor which again can be attributed to the slowness of the browser... a device that is using barely a 600 mhz processor trying to compute alot of data, of course its going to be slow...
    I'm specifically referring to the browser force closing due to running out of memory.

    and dont worry i dont think RIM will stop supporting the new lines of BBs anytime soon... no one knows for sure when QNX will be released with the new phones... it could be q1 or q2 of 2012... RIM will take there time with that as they have alot riding on it... and the reason why they will not stop supporting them. enterprise... it takes a very long time for an enterprise to move to a new platform... so they essentially will not start supporting QNX phones until probably a year after they are released...
    You think, but I'm asking for past evidence that leads you to think so. After the kind of support the 9780, 9700 and not to mention the instantly obsolete 9630, what makes you think so? I'm asking if RIM has been like this or is it a recent pattern that can be explain by a transition period.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-03-11 01:43 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    One cannot expect older devices, whether they are smartphones or PCs, to run a newer OS on the older hardware as well as devices that are newer are designed for that newer OS.

    Just as an example, how about PCs with these stickers?


    In most cases, those PCs barely ran Vista. To run Vista properly, more RAM was almost always needed. If the PCs were laptops, adding more RAM might not have been possible.
    09-03-11 01:53 PM
  12. DannyJK's Avatar
    I'm specifically referring to the browser force closing due to running out of memory.



    You think, but I'm asking for past evidence that leads you to think so. After the kind of support the 9780, 9700 and not to mention the instantly obsolete 9630, what makes you think so? I'm asking if RIM has been like this or is it a recent pattern that can be explain by a transition period.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    My 9700 had OS6 running on it, However it would crash on a lot of webpages that werent mobile versions.
    09-03-11 02:35 PM
  13. o4liberty's Avatar
    Rim was not on top of the technology race and got caught with their pants down! They need to push out more devices sooner and have the OS running smooth.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    09-03-11 03:12 PM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    BlackBerry OS6 was released with the Torch August 2010
    BlackBerry 9700 was released in October 2009,
    How can it be said that the 9700 was designed to work with OS6? OS6 was made to be backwards compatible, but that doesn't make the device designed to work with OS6 it was an OS5 device.

    As for Support and upgrading a device.
    The BlackBerry Tour 9630 was released July 2009, the latest OS release for it came out July 24th 2011, sure it is OS v5.0.0.1062 but they are still supporting the OS 2 years later! they are providing support for their devices.

    The BlackBerry Bold 9000 released May 2008 latest OS March 2011, OS v5.0.0.1728 this is support for Almost 3 years from device launch.

    So RIM has been doing right by it's customers, just because you aren't getting OS7 on a device, or OS6 isn't up your ally doesn't mean RIM isn't supporting the device
    RIM released OS v6.0.0.2858 August 2011 for the 9700 so they are still supporting it.
    09-03-11 03:51 PM
  15. sam_b77's Avatar
    This is the solution to the OP's problem:
    09-04-11 06:15 AM
  16. pkcable's Avatar
    This is the solution to the OP's problem:
    Why am I thinking the same thing? . Just get the iphone you really want and be done with it!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-04-11 06:32 AM
  17. sivan's Avatar
    I don't understand why people don't bother reading my post before responding. I just bought a new Blackberry, can my preference be any clearer?

    Saying that the 9700 wasn't designed to work with OS6 is putting things backward. OS6 wasn't designed to work with the 9700.

    And the pattern continues. RIM decided that QNX will not run on the latest devices, well ahead of these devices being released. Why is that? The devices use generic hardware, there is nothing special here, just a matter of specs.

    To be extra clear again, I am not asking for QNX on my 9930. I am asking why is RIM releasing one device after another that cannot be upgraded. How can anyone look at the succession of devices that are obsolete right after they are released and not see anything peculiar?

    So is this just a transition gone wrong, is RIM inept at forecasting hardware requirements, or is it just a business strategy? I don't have a long term perspective to be able to tell.
    09-05-11 12:58 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I don't understand why people don't bother reading my post before responding. I just bought a new Blackberry, can my preference be any clearer?

    Saying that the 9700 wasn't designed to work with OS6 is putting things backward. OS6 wasn't designed to work with the 9700.

    And the pattern continues. RIM decided that QNX will not run on the latest devices, well ahead of these devices being released. Why is that? The devices use generic hardware, there is nothing special here, just a matter of specs.

    To be extra clear again, I am not asking for QNX on my 9930. I am asking why is RIM releasing one device after another that cannot be upgraded. How can anyone look at the succession of devices that are obsolete right after they are released and not see anything peculiar?

    So is this just a transition gone wrong, is RIM inept at forecasting hardware requirements, or is it just a business strategy? I don't have a long term perspective to be able to tell.
    You've set your mind on one thing and don't want to change it.

    OS6 WAS designed to allow backwards compatibility with the 9700, Hardware was available, it does not mean it will run optimally but OS6 was ported to the 9700 because it could handle it, and many people run OS6 on their 9700's and like it.
    THOUGH While RIM did port OS6 to the 9700 they did not stop development of OS5 updates.
    Same has been the case with the 9300 which has both OS5 and OS6 continuing updates.

    as for QNX devices, we don't know what hardware requirements there will be, OR what changes to core components will be required. maybe QNX will require instruction sets that the Processors on the OS7 devices don't support. I won't pretend to know the mobile device instruction sets having had to deal with x86 processors in a previous life I will enjoy the ignorance of the inner workings of ARM for as long as I can.

    There is certainly an upgrade strategy built into the development process, and the fact QNX is a full new breed of OS for RIM, expecting backwards compatibility stifles development of the New OS that RIM MUST do well.

    Let us go back to Apple, When Apple Transitioned from OS9 to OSX they said FU to EVERYTHING OS9 related.

    RIM isn't doing that with OS7 to QNX that is something that is good.
    09-05-11 01:19 PM
  19. sam_b77's Avatar
    I don't understand why people don't bother reading my post before responding. I just bought a new Blackberry, can my preference be any clearer?

    Saying that the 9700 wasn't designed to work with OS6 is putting things backward. OS6 wasn't designed to work with the 9700.

    And the pattern continues. RIM decided that QNX will not run on the latest devices, well ahead of these devices being released. Why is that? The devices use generic hardware, there is nothing special here, just a matter of specs.

    To be extra clear again, I am not asking for QNX on my 9930. I am asking why is RIM releasing one device after another that cannot be upgraded. How can anyone look at the succession of devices that are obsolete right after they are released and not see anything peculiar?

    So is this just a transition gone wrong, is RIM inept at forecasting hardware requirements, or is it just a business strategy? I don't have a long term perspective to be able to tell.
    Ok jokes apart and the iPhone pic aside, here's my theory of why RIM is behind the curve as far as hardware is concerned.
    The thing is the processors for Phones have outpaced the development of batteries.
    The people who are out in the field and are heavy phone users prioritize battery life more than anything. I can only speak from my usage experience that I prize a phone which will last me a full day on a single charge.
    Most Android phones bleed battery like nobody's business and don't get me started on the iPhone. I'm talking heavy user here... 3-4 hours of talk time everyday+heavy messaging and e-mail. Mostly all phones will quit by 4 Pm.
    Blackberry core customers are the ones who need good battery life and getting that on Dual Core and Quad Core super phone PCs is near impossible. I'm not saying that Androids are bad, I understand that they are heavy spec'd and cater to a certain type of user, while BB's are of lower specs as compared, but then they cater to a whole different user base.
    Even the 9900 barely lasts me till 8:30PM. It's the price one pays for having a 1.2 Ghz processor, I'm just wondering what would happen when the battery is 6-8 months old. And that's why I'm (and a lot many others) not a huge fan of those up and coming blazing fast phones till such time that Battery Tech catches up.
    I'd rather have a slower processor with good battery life than a phone boosted up on steroids so much that it gives out in 3 hours.
    But that's just me. And maybe this explains RIM's strategy.
    As an aside, a friend of mine who is also a Blackberry fan got the 9900, and being a heavy heavy user, he started complaining about the battery from day 1.
    I had the same discussion with him, where I said that everyone was up RIM's a$$ to release a souped up phone, and when they did they immediately start complaining about battery life. He didn't want to understand, he kept saying that he doesn't care and he expects a full day's use from a phone and he would rather have a slow processor than a fast one. Go figure.
    09-05-11 01:34 PM
  20. kelvin4me's Avatar
    I need friends here

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-05-11 01:51 PM
  21. o4liberty's Avatar
    There is a lot of user error when it comes to smart phones but your are right just look at the storm series what a lack of support on rims part the almost turned their back on them.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    09-05-11 02:03 PM
  22. DannyJK's Avatar
    I don't understand why people don't bother reading my post before responding. I just bought a new Blackberry, can my preference be any clearer?

    Saying that the 9700 wasn't designed to work with OS6 is putting things backward. OS6 wasn't designed to work with the 9700.

    And the pattern continues. RIM decided that QNX will not run on the latest devices, well ahead of these devices being released. Why is that? The devices use generic hardware, there is nothing special here, just a matter of specs.

    To be extra clear again, I am not asking for QNX on my 9930. I am asking why is RIM releasing one device after another that cannot be upgraded. How can anyone look at the succession of devices that are obsolete right after they are released and not see anything peculiar?

    So is this just a transition gone wrong, is RIM inept at forecasting hardware requirements, or is it just a business strategy? I don't have a long term perspective to be able to tell.
    I dont think its a hardware issue as to why QNX wont run on the current line up of phones as there is MANY QNX run devices out there that dont have anywhere near the specs of the phones RIM puts out. I think its more of a matter of RIM having to code to the specific hardware the QNX phones will have in them. Different processor = Instruction sets and so forth. If the current processors lack the ability to be given certain instruction sets that the new phones will have then thats a LOT of workaround that RIM has to do on their part and most likely certain aspects of the new phones wont be able to be implemented on the current line up which makes problems for RIM. Im not very good at explaining stuff, but from my perspective it makes a lot of sense. Also im sure RIM doesnt want to create brand new instruction sets and code for phones that will already be a year old (depending on when the QNX phones get released) and wont be able to use that code toward future devices. If they were to do that, they would essentially be creating two completely different coded versions of OS's and one will be obsolete as soon as they release it, they are a business and thats just not viable. They have to code for the hardware that they will be using and plan to use in the future. Just my two cents. Hope I was clear enough...
    09-05-11 02:19 PM
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