[Mister-E]

Windows Phone sales are up 150% in the forth quarter of 2012. People do like the Phone OS, that's what Windows 8 is designed for. I have a HTC 8x on Verizon, and come from 8 years with Blackberries. I will never look back. Waited 2 years for a Netflix app on my playbook, I'm not waiting another 2 for a Netflix app on a BB10. Windows Phone 8 also have all the apps I used on my iPhone lacking Flipboard. But there are very good alternatives. Not to mention Xbox integration's. So I wouldn't be to quick to jump to that conclusion yet. BB10 isn't available in the US yet, but without the main apps its going nowhere in the US.
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By main apps I guess you mean Netflix, Instagram, and Skype. You have good reason to be skeptical, but you can't compare the Playbook with BB 10. The Playbook did not sell well, and BlackBerry has an existing user base of 78 million, so assuming that all these users will upgrade to BB 10 over the next two years, they would be missing out on a large profile of users. Also, we already know these apps are in fact coming and as pointed out I believe in a CrackBerry podcast, many of these companies see the actual launch as the US one and are preparing to release them around that time. If being sure you never miss out an app, I would say you picked the wrong phone and should have gone for the iPhone. So, getting back to the point of the thread, they have 70,000 apps, and that number keeps growing. The remaining three big apps are coming, perhaps not in a native form, but fully functional. Plus, not only can you play Angry Birds Star Wars on BB 10, and unlike iPhone users, it's free.

[southlander]

I actually think if BlackBerry 10 takes off big time in the US -- you'll see Microsoft take a hard look at buying BlackBerry and dumping Windows Phone as a desperation move against Android and Apple. Microsoft can not afford to not be in mobile and Windows Phone just is not cutting it so far.

[Mister-E]

I actually think if BlackBerry 10 takes off big time in the US -- you'll see Microsoft take a hard look at buying BlackBerry and dumping Windows Phone as a desperation move against Android and Apple. Microsoft can not afford to not be in mobile and Windows Phone just is not cutting it so far.

I agree, Microsoft absolutely can not afford to not be in mobile and that is why third spot in the OS market is so important for them. Regarding buying BlackBerry, that is a discussion for a different thread.

[texazzpete]

The battle is already over between BlackBerry and Microsoft for third place in the smartphone market. Windows 8 for PC's has been getting a lot of negative publicity over its new GUI, and that is going to carry over to the Windows 8 phone, especially since they both look exactly the same. There is also bad will over the issue that Windows Phone 7/7.5 is not upgradable to Windows 8. This may influence some consumers purchase decision as they may have some doubt if Windows Phone 8 will be upgradable to Windows Phone 9. Of course BlackBerry has its share of bad will and their is concern if the company can survive. However BB 10 is a totally new operating system that addresses all the shortcomings that BlackBerry had with their old devices and the Z10 has been received positively in the markets it has already been released in. Furthermore, BB 10 is a modern OS, and features such as the Hub, the virtual keyboard and the time-shift camera, are features that sets themselves apart from the competition.

Blackberry OS6 devices were not upgraded to OS7
OS7 devices will never be upgraded to BB10

I think if we follow your analogy, BB actually has a worse upgrade history than MS...

A few more points.

1, Contrary to your assertion, BB10 has not yet addressed all the shortcomings. It's taken some giant steps forward but some are backward at this point.
2. Virtual Keyboard and Timeshift don't really set themselves apart from the competition. They are cool stuff, but not radically different as you may think. Replacement keyboards like Swiftkey were already providing excellent virtual keyboards ages ago, with the added advantage of often running on bigger screens with much bigger keys to hit.

[Mister-E]

Blackberry OS6 devices were not upgraded to OS7
OS7 devices will never be upgraded to BB10

I think if we follow your analogy, BB actually has a worse upgrade history than MS...

A few more points.

1, Contrary to your assertion, BB10 has not yet addressed all the shortcomings. It's taken some giant steps forward but some are backward at this point.
2. Virtual Keyboard and Timeshift don't really set themselves apart from the competition. They are cool stuff, but not radically different as you may think. Replacement keyboards like Swiftkey were already providing excellent virtual keyboards ages ago, with the added advantage of often running on bigger screens with much bigger keys to hit.

Good points. The difference between BlackBerry and Windows Phone, is that Microsoft already knew that it was not going to make Windows Phone 7 upgradable to Windows Phone 8. I would say that BlackBerry's history was not so much as poor upgrade history but rather poor specs when it came to hardware. With the new regime at BlackBerry, that is all in the past.

As for my assertion and BB 10 shortcomings. Ask any BlackBerry user, current or former, what the major issues were with the OS, and they will say battery pulls, limited amount of apps that could be installed at one time, and hour glass. Is this happening now? No. Is BB 10 perfect, no, but no OS is.

Virtual keyboard and timeshift does get them noticed. I use Swiftkey all the time on my Android, its great, but the Z10 has the best virtual keyboard on the market.

[richardat]

Regarding your Kitchen Nightmares analogy, BB 10 is like bulldozing the restaurant and building a brand new one offering well prepared food that customers want and getting over managements dysfunctional issues. I really do think they have won the battle, for at least a year or two, but this is a war that never ends. .

LOL. Well that was a fun analogy, but not meant to go far. I'd actually say it's analogous to abandoning the old Mexicali restaurant, building a new one - Sushi bar....and hoping all your old customers will come over. In addition, the tiny Sushi bar is surrounded by huge established, well-liked, Japanese restaurants. The big restaurants continually renovate, ever 6 months or so, but the little Sushi bar owner is hoping to compete with his brand new small place....which leads to your point about the next three years...

....yes, I do agree.....they must innovate....if they ever hope to draw any substantial base away. They must also evolve at least at a rate on par with the others. If they can hang on at least 3 years, then when a customer goes in, they may see BB as a legitimate 3rd choice, and even without bold innovation, BB may get some portion of the marketshare. The problem is....that's a big "if". I said this well before the launch: BB10 is going against up against popular, dominant, mature platforms. It must launch bug-free, they must produce product - on time- and that is only to have a chance at being in the game. They must go all-in, and then immediately start running with the big boys, just to keep their chance alive.

As to MS....I'm not sure about xbox....I don't think there is much of an angle there, unless they can truly integrate the systems in a meaningful way. I can imagine ways it could be done, but it needs to be deep, exciting, revolutionary integration. As to "Surface phone"....LOL....no need to remind people of the utter failure that Surface will be. Just as winphone is actually one of the best products they ever managed to get out, Surface is a reminder of how even the "new' MS, with it's Apple copied philosophies, can, and will, turn out absolute garbage. I couldn't imagine how to make something worse than Surface. It's a big shocking to me...with all the MS fanboys (young -uns who don't aren't aware of the history of computing, and actually think MS has contributed to computing (I don't blame them...we have short memories in tech....and they weren't alive...or barely when it began)), MS only had to turn out a "decent" product to get a "win" (by their standards) with Surface....instead....they couldn't even do that. There is a certain irony that MS bashed it's own partners for not putting out good products (and in some ways they were right), only to release the biggest turd of all. (not surprising that the partners, just laughed and ceased protesting once they saw it).

[shemaree09]

I disagree. Windows 8 on PC's is pretty awesome once you get the hang of it. You can switch between the new GUI and the traditional desktop theme pretty seamlessly. Like any new OS, it takes time for people to come around.

Windows 8 is made more for touch though, so it may go over a little better on touchscreen devices.

[RubberChicken76]

Windows Phone sales are up 150% in the forth quarter of 2012.

Up 150% in the fourth quarter compared to what exactly? What base are they starting from? Improvement is improvement for sure but still. If they sold 1 million devices one quarter, then 2.5 million devices a year later, they're still starting from a low base.

I will never look back

Well, you're looking back enough to post in a forum called 'crackberry.com'

[pkcable]

I turned the title in to a question. It makes a bit more sense that way.

My take is that Win8 is more polished, and less buggy, BUT is not designed as well. I think once BB gets the kinks out, they will win, BUT as others pointed out the race is FAR FAR from over.

[SparkyBC]

When Bill Gates Says Windows 8 sucks along with their mobile offering people should listen. If anyone knows BILL knows..They will sell but be #3 highly unlikely.

[anon(3310921)]

I think Blackberry is already #3 no? I think it's a question of whether BB10 can help Blackberry maintain #3 and keep the ever pushing WP8 at the back of the pack. . .if there is anything we can learn from comparing WP to BB is that it is easier to keep market share than it is to gain it. . . (BB has had a higher number of sales of "outdated" devices while the more modern WP8 devices have seen only moderate uptake. . .IMHO?!)

[Frosty_Power]

3rd place will not be secured for a long time. Blackberry and Microsoft are just getting started. When everything gets rolling, that's when it will be interesting. This is just the start, not the finish.

[Villain]

This threads a mess lol

personally I'm a huge fan of WP and BB... I wish I could combine the both.

[raysgrumpy]

When Bill Gates Says Windows 8 sucks along with their mobile offering people should listen. If anyone knows BILL knows..They will sell but be #3 highly unlikely.

Another good one Sparky. He never said such a thing. What source did you get that from?

[Bbnivende]

You really should consider Oranges vs Oranges (BB10 vs Wp8).

BB7 is a legacy system like Symbion and Samsung's own system.

Really do not know who will sell more. It might depend on the response to the Q10.

[mkelley65]

The Windows 8 Desktop is the same as Windows 7. The problem is the elimination/drastic (depending on how you look at it) change of the old Start Menu.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

There is no ultimate moment when the operating systems stop everything and arrange themselves on a podium 1-2-3. All we have is NOW. And NOW BlackBerry is in third place. There is never an end to the smartphone battle or an all encompassing moment which in the third place is finally deemed. Blackberry naysayers seem to have the fantasy of some specific, determining moment in the future when the picture will be true, in order to defer the "here and now" reality of yes BlackBerry is in third.

[shemaree09]

The Windows 8 Desktop is the same as Windows 7. The problem is the elimination/drastic (depending on how you look at it) change of the old Start Menu.

Pretty much, and its still easy to use. It just takes some getting used to. Windows 8 is a much needed change and dont see it as blow to Microsoft at all.

[Acumenight]

Very differnt argument here. I have a Windows 7.5 phone I bought about 1.5 years ago. It's a **** off that it doesn't upgrade. The difference is that NOBODY would expect their BB's to run BB10; it's so vastly different on every level. However, while under the hood WP8 and WP7 are all new, to any layman, they are the same. Ask anyone that has used a WP7, would say WP8 looks to be a Windows 7.6.
This is why there is an expectation that WP7 can be upgraded.

You do realize that the Windows 8 ui is meant for mobile and touch and is why some don't like it on a desk top? Your other point was that Windows phone 7/7.5 isn't upgradable to 8 is rather ironic since no blackberry os's are upgradable to BB10

[Gnomesane]

Let's not get confused here, this is for the battle for third place not first or second. The main point I am trying to make is that the Microsoft Windows 8 GUI is the main reason why Windows Phone 8 is going to fail at winning the third spot for OS market share.

I think you're right. Most people have Windows on the desktop and want something different for their phone. I think their desktop frustrations with Windows (over many, many years), hurts Microsoft's chances in the mobility market. They have deep pockets and may overcome it with time, but it's a tough slog for them, me thinks...

[BoldtotheMax]

It is my opinion, but it is also a fact that the Windows 8 PC GUI has not been received well, and the Windows Phone 8 GUI is identical.

Huge difference from PC to mobile. I personally don't know many people who went out to an all touch PC and the ones I do, hate them. I think PC's should stay keyboard/mouse.



Sent from a galaxy far away!

[dannyd86]

Let's not get confused here, this is for the battle for third place not first or second. The main point I am trying to make is that the Microsoft Windows 8 GUI is the main reason why Windows Phone 8 is going to fail at winning the third spot for OS market share.

Yet theres a potential that third place still might not be enough to sustain Blackberry as the company we see it right now.

[moegumby]

Don't know about windows not being third. Seen an article today predicting Blackberry will be running Android by next year. So they might move into that first place category. Just another Android phone manufacturer.
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