Govt Agencies leaving Blackberry,...for iPhone and Android! Oh my!

Originally Posted by howarmat

it will depend on the people that run the certifications. Also they are working on a new neutrino that may be used with bb10 but i dont know the status of that. we would need to see the details from the dev alphas and what "version" they are running

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

But while the plausability is there, one cannot be called "crazy" for claiming there's a chance RIM planned ahead for this and BB10 could already be FIPS certified.

Originally Posted by Blackberry Guy

Is FIPS certification strictly based on software, or is there a hardware component as well?

The FIPS certification for the current Playbook is for Neutrino 6.6, and versions 5.6, 5.6.1 and 5.6.2 of the crypto kernel. This is directly from the FIPS Security policy:

The combinations of computer hardware and OS include the following representative platform:
BlackBerry Tablet OS version 6.6, ARMv7
The BlackBerry Tablet Cryptographic Kernel is also suitable for any manufacturer’s platform that has
compatible processors, equivalent or larger system configurations, and compatible OS versions. For
example, an identical BlackBerry Tablet Cryptographic Kernel can be used on any compatible BlackBerry
Tablet OS for ARM processors. The BlackBerry Tablet Cryptographic Kernel will run on such platforms
and OS versions while maintaining its compliance to the FIPS 140-2 Level 1 requirements.

So any device that is using an ARMv7 chip, Neutrino 6.6, and one one of the three approved crypto kernels, is FIPS approved according to this document. So if BB10 phones use all these things, then they are approved at launch. If they use a different version of Neutrino other than 6.6, and/or a different crypto kernel then they have to get re-certified. So it is very possible that RIM could launch with a FIPS approved BB10 device if these conditions are met. I see no new platforms from RIM in testing from RIM at the moment, in fact some that were there a couple weeks ago (another version of TabletOS that I thought was BB10) was apparently pulled because it doesn't show up on the sheet anymore. CertiCom, who RIM owns, has nothing in the pipe either. Only interesting thing I see is a company called CertiSolve, whom I never heard of, has a CryptoComply Mobile v2.1 in for Review Pending. I'm wondering if RIM has setup a different company to handle things as CertiSolve doesn't come back with much on the web, and the v2.1 is really close to RIM's current numbering for Playbook OS.

Originally Posted by Qbnkelt

There are four levels.
Hardware (tamper resistance) is also considered.


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Gotcha, thanks.

Does that then mean a device cannot be certified until the testers get a release version of hardware with accompanying software?

Originally Posted by Blackberry Guy

Gotcha, thanks.

Does that then mean a device cannot be certified until the testers get a release version of hardware with accompanying software?

The 4G PlayBook has some different and some additional hardware and software, it did not need to be tested again.

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

So if it could be we're not so crazy after all right?

I for one would like to think Rim has planned ahead for this so BB10 will be certified out of the box.

They can plan ahead all they want. If the carrier testing finds something that makes a significant change, RIM would still need to make the appropriate changes before submitting for certification. Which probably means changes to some of the info required by the forms for request for certification. Let me give you a parallel.

Back in the day, someone in the military bought a replacement toilet seat to fit a toilet in the latrine. So others bought the same seat, the military required a specification -- size, shape, materials, all dimensions, etc. So he wrote one up and it was approved. Thereafter all toilet seats purchased had to meet that spec. Which required the manufacturer to buy very precise equipment to test every so many units. That toilet seat, which you or I could have bought at Home Depot for maybe $10-$15 would cost the government maybe $400 because it had to be proven to meet the spec. The manufacturer needed to recoup the cost of the testing equipment and the ongoing testing added by the spec. That's a real world example that actually happened. But what happens if a toilet maker finds that toilet seats made with the present material crack too soon?

The manufacturer would need to come up with a new material that lasts longer. For the public, he's then done. But for the government, he now needs to submit a request for change on the material, go through the request process, and maybe buy new equipment to test that the material is consistent. To avoid the cost of multiple submissions, he wouldn't submit the request for change until after he's certain that material's what he's going to use for production runs. It's going to be the same for certification of an OS or kernel. The paperwork isn't going to be submitted till it's certain that what RIM is trying to get certified is what's going to be the definite production version. If carrier testing finds something that needs change, RIM could very well have wasted time and money on both sides of the equation by submitting something that turns out not to be. Just like that toilet seat has to fit that particular latrine toilet, it would surprise me if the certification didn't require the kernel to be proven within the environment of the OS it is used in. Make sense?

Originally Posted by Blackberry Guy

Gotcha, thanks.

Does that then mean a device cannot be certified until the testers get a release version of hardware with accompanying software?

Yup. You got it.


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You know, with all this talk about negativity going on today, I just don't have it in me to tear into someone's posts. So instead, I'll start by posting this: Release roadmap - Native SDK for BlackBerry 10 Beta

A very broad overview of what RIM has incorporated into BB10 throughout it's development (at least since the summer). Now to say that PBOS and BB10 are the same OS would be ignoring the fact that RIM had to do SOMETHING with every item listed on the roadmap in order to build Blackberry 10. Will any of those things affect FIPS certification? Well I see cryptography on there, so maybe, but I'm not in a position to say for sure. I think the only thing that can be inferred from that roadmap is that BB10 is different from PBOS.

I'm still going to dig through my old files and see if I can find the operating system/kernel diagram. If I can't find it, I could always improvise with images from Google anyway. My goal is to educate rather than obfuscate!

Attachment 124743

Originally Posted by mikeo007

You know, with all this talk about negativity going on today, I just don't have it in me to tear into someone's posts. So instead, I'll start by posting this: Release roadmap - Native SDK for BlackBerry 10 Beta

A very broad overview of what RIM has incorporated into BB10 throughout it's development (at least since the summer). Now to say that PBOS and BB10 are the same OS would be ignoring the fact that RIM had to do SOMETHING with every item listed on the roadmap in order to build Blackberry 10. Will any of those things affect FIPS certification? Well I see cryptography on there, so maybe, but I'm not in a position to say for sure. I think the only thing that can be inferred from that roadmap is that BB10 is different from PBOS.

I'm still going to dig through my old files and see if I can find the operating system/kernel diagram. If I can't find it, I could always improvise with images from Google anyway. My goal is to educate rather than obfuscate!

Attachment 124743

Actually Application Info is the one that has me wondering. Don't know exactly what that entitles.

A Thorsten quote from an interview.

I’ve had a BlackBerry 10 device on my hip for eight weeks. I have never had to reset it, and it has never frozen. The key is in the multi-kernel: if you hit a process and it does not execute properly, the icon goes grey, but the device carries on working. Just that one process gets restarted. It has a wonderful recovery process; it blocks this one process and the others continue to flow. It goes deep into the technology of the microkernel multi-threading process, and that allows us to have an immensely reliable system.

QNX (the operating system RIM bought in 2010, and the basis for BlackBerry 10) was certified by the US government because its level of security was a fit with military requirements – before we bought it. That was the gold nugget lying on a long sandy beach. This OS worked on all embedded systems, it went into vertical segments like automobiles and slot machines – everything we don’t see but, if it’s not reliable, it doesn’t work.

We believe in mobile computing, not just mobile phones. QNX taught us a lot about cars, but we also asked, what does it mean for other domains? For example, it can be the mobile computing system to manage an energy grid. It is for more than just BlackBerry 10.

I want us to be the company that manages all mobile computing end points, whether in a phone or car, across the data network globally. Today we are connecting 654 carriers, and our system is being used to carry data, reliably, across these networks.

Thorsten Heins interview Pt 2: Secrets of BlackBerry 10 | Marklives!com

BlackBerry 10 Achieves FIPS Certification Before Launch - N4BB

One less thing to worry about then...

So, I guess it did need to get certified... ;)
Just like we knew it would though...
RIM's BlackBerry 10 platform wins coveted U.S. security clearance | Reuters

Some heads of little faith in Rim must be hiding in shame right now BB10 with FIPS out of the box, just like I said.

Did something interesting actually happen in this thread?

Originally Posted by MADBRADNYC

So, I guess it did need to get certified... ;)
Just like we knew it would though...
RIM's BlackBerry 10 platform wins coveted U.S. security clearance | Reuters

Of course it was needed.
It will have its own certificate.
There should also be one for the new accompanying BES solution, I think it's got a new name but I can't remember.
Now that it has been tested and certified and carriers complete their testing a it will REALLY face the ultimate test to prove itself.
Thor may just be able to pull a Steve Jobs like resurrection for RIM. Getting the new platform FIPS certified in time for launch, simultaneously with carrier testing, is no easy task.
Which means that last set of leaked photos ARE the final look of the device.
Which means launch by my birthday?!?



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Originally Posted by Masahiro

Did something interesting actually happen in this thread?

Nah.
BB10 finished its FIPS certification. It's now approved for use behind government firewalls upon release.
Like everything else before it had to be.
Like everything after it will have to be.

Now please let nothing delay the release, so I can go to my director to make the argument to stay with RIM more convincing, and to kill the idea of the request for information for other platforms.



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I wonder what was needed for the cert. It doesn't look like it had anything to do with the phones because they aren't even carrier approved yet. I guess we will never know. Oh well it looks like that QNX is showing its colors again.

Originally Posted by MADBRADNYC

Will they eat their words when CB posts headlines in the future that BB10 is certified?
Or, will they forget that they all thought and stated that it it won't need certification because RIM had a history of secure devices?

Hmmmmm...
I'm lovin' RIM so much right now!

Originally Posted by NFLPLAYBOOK

I wonder what was needed for the cert. It doesn't look like it had anything to do with the phones because they aren't even carrier approved yet. I guess we will never know. Oh well it looks like that QNX is showing its colors again.

It has everything to do with the phones... BB10 handheld devices to be released next year...

Originally Posted by NFLPLAYBOOK

I wonder what was needed for the cert. It doesn't look like it had anything to do with the phones because they aren't even carrier approved yet. I guess we will never know. Oh well it looks like that QNX is showing its colors again.

FIPS certification for BB10.
As in phones.




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Originally Posted by MADBRADNYC

Hmmmmm...
I'm lovin' RIM so much right now!

PLEASE let carrier testing go flawlessly....


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Originally Posted by MADBRADNYC

It has everything to do with the phones... BB10 handheld devices to be released next year...

It is well known by now that BB10 will be on more then juast phones.

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

It is well known by now that BB10 will be on more then juast phones.

I'm getting really excited now. I'm starting to think there might be more to the thought of RIM holding stuff back. Don't want to get my hopes up to high because there are a lot of possibilities. A FIPS certificate before carrier approval. Unheard of. Wow amazing.

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

It is well known by now that BB10 will be on more then juast phones.

Yeah, And???....
This certification is for BB10 handhelds and the Enterprise to support it.
You don't have to go any further than the first paragraph of RIM's own press release.
Did you read the sentence that states?...

The certification will enable government agencies to deploy BlackBerry� 10 smartphones and BlackBerry� Enterprise Service 10, RIM’s new mobile enterprise management solution, from the day of launch.

Aw. C'mon. Stop trying to needle people then cry about bullies when you get called out.

Too much nonsense...

Originally Posted by MADBRADNYC

Yeah, And???....
This certification is for BB10 handhelds and the Enterprise to support it.
You don't have to go any further than the first paragraph of RIM's own press release.
Did you read the sentence that states?...


Aw. C'mon. Stop trying to needle people then cry about bullies when you get called out.

Too much nonsense...

Jesusmaryandjoseph........


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Actually some of you seem to be very selective readers, RIM's own words:

"Waterloo, ON � Research In Motion (RIM) (NASDAQ: RIMM, TSX: RIM) today announced that the BlackBerry� 10 platform is now FIPS 140-2 certified"

BlackBerry 10 PLATFORM!!

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Actually some of you seem to be very selective readers, RIM's own words:

"Waterloo, ON – Research In Motion (RIM) (NASDAQ: RIMM, TSX: RIM) today announced that the BlackBerry� 10 platform is now FIPS 140-2 certified"

BlackBerry 10 PLATFORM!!

I agree. I can't see any reason why RIM would want to start a new launch of mobile devices and split them between 2 different OSs hurting the unified ecosystem that they are trying to create. Never mind the fact that it would take years to create a new OS out of QNX. Even Microsoft takes 3 to 5 years to create a new one and that's with their unlimitted resources. QNX is not just a mobile OS. It's more than that and you can't create a new version of it every year like you can with the other ones. The phrase mobile computing isn't just being thrown around lightly.