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09-13-18 03:46 AM
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  1. sorinv's Avatar
    03-26-18 07:55 PM
  2. sorinv's Avatar
    And Amazon does the same, if you read the link in the comments...


    Posted via CB10
    03-26-18 08:04 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Quid pro quo.

    We know it and we allow it, because we want what we get in return.

    If all 2 billion+ Android users turned their phones off, the Google business model would collapse. But we know very well that won't happen.
    03-26-18 08:14 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Lots of people sign for mortgages and car loans and insurance coverage without reading any of the contract - and they're still liable for what they sign. This is no different.

    Google has never made any secret about what they collect and what they use it for, and you have to agree to those terms in several places when setting up a new Android phone. And you've always been informed of the permissions that Android apps use, and as of the last several versions, you have the ability to turn many of those off (sure, the app in some cases won't run, but you can still deny the access).

    The fact is that most people realize that Google is collecting their data, but they don't mind for one major reason: this allows Google to offer them world-class services with tight integration for little or no monetary cost. People actually WANT and VALUE those services, and while most data collection by Google could be stopped by simply subscribing to Google G Suite for $60/year (Google doesn't track most services [other than services you specifically request] when used by a paid account) - but most people prefer to save the money and let Google collect their data.

    That's a choice people make, and IMO, they're allowed to make it, just as they're allowed to sign a stupid car loan or a credit card with 29.99% interest, or whatever.

    Google also gives you an out - something no other company does - you can delete all of your past account history - or just download all that information so you can see it for yourself - at anytime, from a simple web page. Google's transparency is second to none, despite a few mistakes they've made along the way.

    Show me the website where Facebook or Amazon or Microsoft or BlackBerry lets you download all the data they have on you, and lets you delete it if you want! Good luck with that!
    03-26-18 10:19 PM
  5. cribble2k's Avatar
    Lots of people sign for mortgages and car loans and insurance coverage without reading any of the contract - and they're still liable for what they sign. This is no different.

    Google has never made any secret about what they collect and what they use it for, and you have to agree to those terms in several places when setting up a new Android phone. And you've always been informed of the permissions that Android apps use, and as of the last several versions, you have the ability to turn many of those off (sure, the app in some cases won't run, but you can still deny the access).

    The fact is that most people realize that Google is collecting their data, but they don't mind for one major reason: this allows Google to offer them world-class services with tight integration for little or no monetary cost. People actually WANT and VALUE those services, and while most data collection by Google could be stopped by simply subscribing to Google G Suite for $60/year (Google doesn't track most services [other than services you specifically request] when used by a paid account) - but most people prefer to save the money and let Google collect their data.

    That's a choice people make, and IMO, they're allowed to make it, just as they're allowed to sign a stupid car loan or a credit card with 29.99% interest, or whatever.

    Google also gives you an out - something no other company does - you can delete all of your past account history - or just download all that information so you can see it for yourself - at anytime, from a simple web page. Google's transparency is second to none, despite a few mistakes they've made along the way.

    Show me the website where Facebook or Amazon or Microsoft or BlackBerry lets you download all the data they have on you, and lets you delete it if you want! Good luck with that!
    BlackBerry and TCL both get free passes here when it comes to data collection.
    03-27-18 01:04 PM
  6. sorinv's Avatar
    Lots of people sign for mortgages and car loans and insurance coverage without reading any of the contract - and they're still liable for what they sign. This is no different.

    Google has never made any secret about what they collect and what they use it for, and you have to agree to those terms in several places when setting up a new Android phone. And you've always been informed of the permissions that Android apps use, and as of the last several versions, you have the ability to turn many of those off (sure, the app in some cases won't run, but you can still deny the access).

    The fact is that most people realize that Google is collecting their data, but they don't mind for one major reason: this allows Google to offer them world-class services with tight integration for little or no monetary cost. People actually WANT and VALUE those services, and while most data collection by Google could be stopped by simply subscribing to Google G Suite for $60/year (Google doesn't track most services [other than services you specifically request] when used by a paid account) - but most people prefer to save the money and let Google collect their data.

    That's a choice people make, and IMO, they're allowed to make it, just as they're allowed to sign a stupid car loan or a credit card with 29.99% interest, or whatever.

    Google also gives you an out - something no other company does - you can delete all of your past account history - or just download all that information so you can see it for yourself - at anytime, from a simple web page. Google's transparency is second to none, despite a few mistakes they've made along the way.

    Show me the website where Facebook or Amazon or Microsoft or BlackBerry lets you download all the data they have on you, and lets you delete it if you want! Good luck with that!
    None of Google, Facebook, Amazon, and the like delete data about me that they get from other people that have my email address or phone number etc., even if I have never created an account with Google, amazon, Facebook and the like..and I haven't.

    They should not collect it period.

    They have information about me without my consent and without me ever using their services...

    Nice try though...

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-18 09:19 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    None of Google, Facebook, Amazon, and the like delete data about me that they get from other people that have my email address or phone number etc., even if I have never created an account with Google, amazon, Facebook and the like..and I haven't.

    They should not collect it period.

    They have information about me without my consent and without me ever using their services...

    Nice try though...

    Posted via CB10
    They didn't need your consent because they didn't get it from you. The people you're friends and family with gave/sold it via their contact list. Sounds like you should be upset at those friends and family.
    03-27-18 09:38 PM
  8. stlabrat's Avatar
    too early to tell, let the fact speak to itself in the future. hopefully, it stop at intern level (daughter)... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/u...er=rss&emc=rss
    03-28-18 03:24 AM
  9. Soulstream's Avatar
    None of Google, Facebook, Amazon, and the like delete data about me that they get from other people that have my email address or phone number etc., even if I have never created an account with Google, amazon, Facebook and the like..and I haven't.

    They should not collect it period.

    They have information about me without my consent and without me ever using their services...

    Nice try though...

    Posted via CB10
    So your suggestion is to delete all emails you ever sent to a gmail address and also delete your contact from all users who have you into their cloud backed address book?
    03-28-18 04:32 AM
  10. vladi's Avatar
    If people were aware what's going on with their personal data there would be no such public outrage with Facebook right now.

    People are not aware they are trading and undercutting their personal data for an email and map service. I guarantee you that. You and I know to an extent what Google does but 99% of the Google users don't.

    Problem with Google has always been unrestricted data access by Google employees. It's been like that since one. You just need a good friend who works in Google no matter where and you can have anyone's gmail password rested to your liking.
    03-28-18 05:21 AM
  11. JJBBgreat's Avatar
    The problem--the crisis really--is that Facebook is trying to play it both ways. On the hand, Zuckerberg says his passion is "connecting people," but it's clear that he's also quite passionate (and reckless) about maximizing revenue. Historically, public utilities and nonprofits have been required to be aggressively protective of people's personal data. FB represents a strange, new phenomenon in which personal data is their product.

    Finally, I see a business opportunity here. Sooner or later--after several more damaging breaches--people are going to look for more secure options. Blackberry, I think, is anticipating this.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    03-28-18 06:00 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Problem with Google has always been unrestricted data access by Google employees. It's been like that since one. You just need a good friend who works in Google no matter where and you can have anyone's gmail password rested to your liking.
    This is absolutely false. I know a couple of executives at Google, a half-dozen high-level engineers, and several dozen lower/mid-level employees. Even the executives don't have any access, and neither do normal network admins and the like. Only the legal team gets such access, and it takes multiple levels of authorization to do so, in writing, and they require very specific requests - they don't just unlock entire accounts even for the FBI without a very specific warrant.

    And since 2013, all data at Google has been encrypted "at rest" (meaning, it's stored encrypted), while at one time, some types of information were only encrypted "in transit".

    What you write might have been true a decade or more ago, but Google is far too big, and has far too many eyes on them, to be that sloppy, and I assure you, they aren't. In fact, any attempts to hack accounts or access customer data without approval is grounds for immediate termination - and it happens (the terminating - I've heard a few stories). Google has some of the best engineers and data security specialists in the world working for them, and it's in their best interest to do so, because NOT giving out any raw data to anyone is what keeps their advertisers coming to them every month to pay for ads.

    Letting anyone have access to raw data would completely undermine their entire business model.
    03-28-18 07:50 PM
  13. sorinv's Avatar
    So your suggestion is to delete all emails you ever sent to a gmail address and also delete your contact from all users who have you into their cloud backed address book?
    No. My suggestion is that they have no right to use that information, even if they collect it. They must delete it, just like even the Internet provider is supposed to do after a year. That's what the law says. Yet Google, Facebook and the like keep that information forever.

    How hard can that be? Data deletion is even easier than data collection.

    If they went to the trouble of forming a data base on me from the information they collect from other users, without my knowledge and approval, that's stealing from me.
    Information is everything today. It's invaluable, even Google can't tell what it will be worth in the future, why would I allow them that without negotiating a contract with me in the first place?

    Not everyone and everything is for sale for some stupid app or search...

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by sorinv; 03-28-18 at 09:52 PM.
    03-28-18 09:32 PM
  14. sorinv's Avatar
    This is absolutely false. I know a couple of executives at Google, a half-dozen high-level engineers, and several dozen lower/mid-level employees. Even the executives don't have any access, and neither do normal network admins and the like. Only the legal team gets such access, and it takes multiple levels of authorization to do so, in writing, and they require very specific requests - they don't just unlock entire accounts even for the FBI without a very specific warrant.

    And since 2013, all data at Google has been encrypted "at rest" (meaning, it's stored encrypted), while at one time, some types of information were only encrypted "in transit".

    What you write might have been true a decade or more ago, but Google is far too big, and has far too many eyes on them, to be that sloppy, and I assure you, they aren't. In fact, any attempts to hack accounts or access customer data without approval is grounds for immediate termination - and it happens (the terminating - I've heard a few stories). Google has some of the best engineers and data security specialists in the world working for them, and it's in their best interest to do so, because NOT giving out any raw data to anyone is what keeps their advertisers coming to them every month to pay for ads.

    Letting anyone have access to raw data would completely undermine their entire business model.
    You must be Sergey Brin ;-)
    Every piece you write here is a zealous and religious defence of everything Google. They can do no wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-18 09:36 PM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You must be Sergey Brin ;-)
    Every piece you write here is a zealous and religious defence of everything Google. They can do no wrong.
    Oh please. If I was Sergey, I'd be sipping cocktails on my yacht heading to my island - both of which would be stocked with supermodels. I wouldn't be here on CB. LOL.
    03-28-18 11:41 PM
  16. Soulstream's Avatar
    No. My suggestion is that they have no right to use that information, even if they collect it. They must delete it, just like even the Internet provider is supposed to do after a year. That's what the law says. Yet Google, Facebook and the like keep that information forever.

    How hard can that be? Data deletion is even easier than data collection.

    If they went to the trouble of forming a data base on me from the information they collect from other users, without my knowledge and approval, that's stealing from me.
    Information is everything today. It's invaluable, even Google can't tell what it will be worth in the future, why would I allow them that without negotiating a contract with me in the first place?

    Not everyone and everything is for sale for some stupid app or search...

    Posted via CB10
    Deletion is not effective because the data on which the "profile" is based is persistent: contacts and emails. Even if they delete it today, the emails and contacts are still there and the profile can be re-generated at any time from the exact same data. It's not like a profile based on web searches and visits and other dynamic data that once deleted it takes time to recreate.

    Usage is a different thing entirely and tougher to prove too.
    03-29-18 12:59 AM
  17. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    No. My suggestion is that they have no right to use that information, even if they collect it. They must delete it, just like even the Internet provider is supposed to do after a year. That's what the law says. Yet Google, Facebook and the like keep that information forever.

    How hard can that be? Data deletion is even easier than data collection.

    If they went to the trouble of forming a data base on me from the information they collect from other users, without my knowledge and approval, that's stealing from me.
    So why haven’t you sued them yet?
    Itsa_Me_Mario likes this.
    03-29-18 07:04 AM
  18. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    So why haven’t you sued them yet?
    Because those that can't do, teach. 😀
    cwalt2166 and jamesharmeling like this.
    03-29-18 07:10 AM
  19. sorinv's Avatar
    Well, at least Apple is picking up where blackberry left ;-)
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ata-protection

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...users-complain


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by sorinv; 03-29-18 at 04:47 PM.
    03-29-18 04:36 PM
  20. sorinv's Avatar
    Because those that can't do, teach. 😀
    Well, your data collection doesn't work well ;-)
    Some can do both.

    Posted via CB10
    03-29-18 04:37 PM
  21. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Well, your data collection doesn't work well ;-)
    Some can do both.
    So you’re suing Google and Facebook, then?
    03-29-18 05:30 PM
  22. Ment's Avatar
    Well, at least Apple is picking up where blackberry left ;-)
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ata-protection

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...users-complain


    Posted via CB10
    Guardian should just shush.

    https://order-order.com/2018/03/29/g...facebook-data/

    Basically any site/org that enables login via Facebook like Guardian are in cahoots in terms of information scraping of Facebook users.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    03-29-18 05:34 PM
  23. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Simple solution...to the problem of .politicians sleeping at the wheel....or worse being lured by access to voter information to help manipulate and get them re-elected, may be what has stalled serious regulations in the matter of personal privacy.
    It's as easy as requiring all developers of software apps to supply two types, optionally one that permits gathering of primary source information (but not contacts information) which may be free, and a mandatory second version which cannot do such data mining, and may cost a reasonable fee to use. This eliminates the problem completely. I have no vested interest in seeing Google survive or die....don't really care. I Don't think Apple is free of this data collection issue either. Imagine if IBM had been permitted to do what Google, Facebook Instagram and others have gotten away with. China shouldn't be spying or mass surveilling its citizens and neither should Madison Avenue, nor democracies (Note Obama and others used similiar techniques in his election, not just Trump), unless of course you volunteer and get paid to be their lab-rat or market-research tool.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 03-30-18 at 05:37 AM.
    03-30-18 04:44 AM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    ....and yes the BB10 model of originally not collecting personal data still has interest and could still have traction.
    03-30-18 04:48 AM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Imagine World War II vets after getting brand new bell telephones in their houses finding out that the operator or neighbours were spying on their party-line calls, and jotting down all that information for later use or resale. World War III would have started right there and then. But instead private lines became the standard......and so....that just about puts us there on the map....
    03-30-18 05:09 AM
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