1. mrsimon's Avatar
    one of the posts has made me think about the "depends on how much you write on your device" , to decide model.
    I see many under 25s using whatsapp with voice messages, and a teenage niece said girls tend to send photos and post on Instagram, while boys play games. My son plays games and watches youtubers. messages on WhatsApp are minimal, and he's only 12!
    In these cases, it's a large screen that makes sense. a PKB would be redundant. and if you're an adult with a similar use, and especially don't write emails and post on tech nerd forums with your phone, a VKB will probably make more sense.
    Here's a confession that I'll keep hidden in this post. After 2 Bolds (with I loved), in 2014 I moved to a Samsung 5 because I wanted to read news and ebooks on my phone and watch videos, and see scantily clad girls on a bigger screen. I sacrificed the PKB , but always struggled with the VKB. I wasn't sure what Blackberry was making and had zero knowledge of what an OS was (confession 2). I remember seeing a Blackberry PKB (some BB10 I imagine) but still thought the screen was too small. Then I upgraded to the S Edge.
    It wasn't until the Keyone appeared that I got interested in BlackBerry again. Blackberry's presence in Spain was so poor that it might have well been dead. I now also carry a Motion for media content.
    So, I don't blame people like my wife who don't want a PKB, as I've been there, and don't expect things to change in the future based on the content that people consume.
    The PKB seems less and less relevant to the vast majority of users.
    I love the typing and the shortcuts but don't expect people to agree with me, and I think we all need to accept that.

    confession and conclusion.
    Over to you.
    09-14-19 02:38 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Your analysis is good but:

    1. You are using the dual carry method where as the BlackBerry is currently designed and intended to be used as a single carry. A 9900 style device would be more useful as a dual carry device.

    2. The Motion was not a great choice because its body to screen ratio is not optimized. You get a bigger screen with the Motion but the Key device’s screen is adequate.

    Maybe a reasonably sized slider or smaller pkb device designed for dual carry might have satisfied more potential customers.
    09-14-19 09:19 AM
  3. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Your analysis is good but:

    1. You are using the dual carry method where as the BlackBerry is currently designed and intended to be used as a single carry. A 9900 style device would be more useful as a dual carry device.

    2. The Motion was not a great choice because its body to screen ratio is not optimized. You get a bigger screen with the Motion but the Key device’s screen is adequate.

    Maybe a reasonably sized slider or smaller pkb device designed for dual carry might have satisfied more potential customers.
    Those that dual carry are few and far between. Most people want a Samsung or an iPhone because it's a safe bet anything else means a compromise of some sort.
    TgeekB and ppeters914 like this.
    09-14-19 11:02 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Those that dual carry are few and far between. Most people want a Samsung or an iPhone because it's a safe bet anything else means a compromise of some sort.
    So I was a niche of a niche of a niche.
    09-14-19 11:26 AM
  5. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    So I was a niche of a niche of a niche.
    That also goes for your device choices.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 12:48 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That also goes for your device choices.
    LMAO - Chuck Finley69 takes a hit, again......
    Bbnivende, ppeters914 and Mecca EL like this.
    09-14-19 12:50 PM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    LMAO - Chuck Finley69 takes a hit, again......
    I think you enjoy it.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 04:22 PM
  8. mrsimon's Avatar
    Your analysis is good but:

    1. You are using the dual carry method where as the BlackBerry is currently designed and intended to be used as a single carry. A 9900 style device would be more useful as a dual carry device.

    2. The Motion was not a great choice because its body to screen ratio is not optimized. You get a bigger screen with the Motion but the Key device’s screen is adequate.

    Maybe a reasonably sized slider or smaller pkb device designed for dual carry might have satisfied more potential customers.
    I consume media on the key2 LE also these days and have got used to it. But any smaller than 4.5 inches would make it less attractive.

    Blackberry aimed for people who were heavy texters, especially business people who liked PKB and it didn't work.

    I carry 2 devices because I've become a greedy bar..steward.

    As I said at the beginning of the thread, there is a small market for PKB people who prioritise writing over media and a camera.
    Perhaps, without a BlackBerry tax and the BlackBerry name , a company like Nokia (slightly more attractive to us than Samsung and Chinese brands) could launch a PKB phone in it's "novelty" line at an attractive price.

    But that would be a big ask and gamble for them or any phone.

    I'm PKB, despite writing this on my Motion!!
    09-15-19 02:58 AM
  9. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    What is going on with TCL BB? No new BB phones at IFA

    EDIT:

    NVM, just saw the other thread.
    Last edited by Tsepz_GP; 09-15-19 at 04:26 AM.
    09-15-19 03:18 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    I'm still trying to get my head around sailing horses.
    app_Developer likes this.
    09-16-19 10:29 PM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    one of the posts has made me think about the "depends on how much you write on your device" , to decide model.
    I.....
    Here's a confession that I'll keep hidden in this post. After 2 Bolds (with I loved), in 2014 I moved to a Samsung 5 because I wanted to read news and ebooks on my phone and watch videos, and see .... on a bigger screen. I sacrificed the PKB , .
    You totally missed out on reading on the big screen Passport, and holding the device sideways, using the capacitive touch ...what I call not, an all-touch, but the ultra-touch device.....to scroll up and down with the thumb. It's such a natural and comfortable way of handling documents. Oh and no one will think you are a watching lame substitute for reality videos on a device with a keyboard. You'll look smarter than that, rather than just being told "I thought you were better than that".
    ;-)
    chain13 likes this.
    09-16-19 10:50 PM
  12. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    If you surveyed every bicycle on earth, what percentage have this basic configuration?

    Attachment 446140

    I'd say well over 99%.

    Yet, other options exist:
    Actually you didn't look closely enough at that bicycle (your argument). In China maybe 98%? in North America probably 0-1%, Europe, maybe somewhere in between. The vast,vast,vast majority of Bicycles (private/personal property ownership) in NA are multispeed, multi-geared bikes - some are speed road bikes $$$$, some mountain bikes $-$$$$, some recreational suburban bikes $-$$, some are commuter to business bikes, some are adorned with child-carriers etc...
    But basically what you are arguing is about basic frame design, which is more like what SOC you are using on your smartphone, not what OS you use that makes it tick. Your argument actually supports the idea of BB10 still being in the marketplace - because unlike the smartphone market, the bike market has a diversity of devices and uses and some are specialized.
    09-16-19 11:02 PM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I'm still trying to get my head around sailing horses.
    Me too. Dragon flies well maybe, but sailing horses....are we talking tojan horses? I think they were wheeled, and Pegasus well that was a flying horse....not to be confused with when pigs fly.
    09-16-19 11:06 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Ahh....maybe we're talking about a sea-horse, not the biggest or fastest ship in the sea, but unlike others, its fully submersible and rather stealthy.
    09-16-19 11:14 PM
  15. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Those that dual carry are few and far between. Most people want a Samsung or an iPhone because it's a safe bet anything else means a compromise of some sort.
    Well except it is clear that the iPhone or Samsung flagship are a compromise on the wallet/budget. Also iOS and Android were both a compromise to having used a BB10 and a PKB.

    I'm sure that's the Cadillac compromise as well. I love a Cadillac, but a Caravan or Chevy is probably a more realistic daily driver. Especially for those who dual-carry or more in a family.
    09-16-19 11:27 PM
  16. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Commercially, nobody cares about remaining BB10 users. Statistically irrelevant and have no choice but to eventually choose Android/iOS hardware or go off grid.
    Well said Javert! How long oh Lord until you let bb10 die!

    (Javert? Wasn't that the nickname of the incident where Google took Java for Android off of Sun/Oracle? Hmmm maybe not, can't remember..)
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 09-17-19 at 12:09 AM.
    09-16-19 11:56 PM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    Friends of mine worked at SUN. Still "hard feelings" amongst a couple of them for the great goog's transgressions. .
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    09-17-19 05:15 AM
  18. mrsimon's Avatar
    Me too. Dragon flies well maybe, but sailing horses....are we talking tojan horses? I think they were wheeled, and Pegasus well that was a flying horse....not to be confused with when pigs fly.
    you needed to pay close attention to see where I got that from! regarding Blackberry
    Flogging a dead horse
    The ship that sailed
    and you get the catchier title
    The horse that sailed!!! 😉

    😂
    Laura Knotek and Mecca EL like this.
    09-17-19 06:26 AM
  19. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Friends of mine worked at SUN. Still "hard feelings" amongst a couple of them for the great goog's transgressions. .
    Has that what? decade long? JAVA licensing lawsuit with Google (for Android) which Oracle picked up after picking up the pieces of Sun Microsystems come to a conclusion yet or is it expected to any time soon? I didn't realize Sun's former Headquarters complex became the home of Facebook.
    09-17-19 12:36 PM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    Has that what? decade long? JAVA licensing lawsuit with Google (for Android) which Oracle picked up after picking up the pieces of Sun Microsystems come to a conclusion yet or is it expected to any time soon? I didn't realize Sun's former Headquarters complex became the home of Facebook.
    Both friends have moved on to far better things. Dunno where/if any of that is these days but Oracle gave it an honest best. Afaik. Illustrates all I need to know about google's ethics, imo.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    09-17-19 01:17 PM
  21. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Well except it is clear that the iPhone or Samsung flagship are a compromise on the wallet/budget. Also iOS and Android were both a compromise to having used a BB10 and a PKB.

    I'm sure that's the Cadillac compromise as well. I love a Cadillac, but a Caravan or Chevy is probably a more realistic daily driver. Especially for those who dual-carry or more in a family.
    They may be stupid expensive, but they're there because people will buy them. Unless they can't, which is when they look at budget phones or previous models. As far as what's better, that's completely subjective.
    09-18-19 10:37 AM
  22. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Well except it is clear that the iPhone or Samsung flagship are a compromise on the wallet/budget. Also iOS and Android were both a compromise to having used a BB10 and a PKB.

    I'm sure that's the Cadillac compromise as well. I love a Cadillac, but a Caravan or Chevy is probably a more realistic daily driver. Especially for those who dual-carry or more in a family.
    People seemed quite happy to make that so-called “compromise” in their millions, probably because they didn’t feel any compromise in the move and were actually happier hence they stayed loyal to those brands and just continue to buy them.
    09-18-19 03:59 PM
  23. olee2222's Avatar
    I used the Priv 1 year, Key1 1 year, then a OnePlus6 1year, and now again the Key2.

    The PkB is ok-ish. I find the VKB is simply faster to type on and more accurate to with a significant margin.
    Typing lengthy notes in OneNote, writing emails, WhatsApp text - it's just faster on the VKB for me.

    In fact, I find typing notes on meetings and responding to emails way much better on a large screen phone with a VKB than on these tiny little keys of the Key2.

    However, I am curious how the Key2 works for me, so I am happy to give a few months to see how it develops.

    The only main advantage I see of the PKB is that I can change apps very fast, instead of going to the home screen.

    Coming back from the comfortable screen of the OnePlus6 to this tiny Key2 screen is a chore. It feels like I am watching the World through a keyhole. Looking up websites, Google Maps, checking notes in OneNote, reading emails - it just feels limiting on this small device.

    Even if I choose the largest VKB on the OnePlus, I still see more things on the OnePlus as there is more left on the bigger screen than on the K2.

    The camera simply is just inferior in every aspect on the K2. Taking pictures is critical for me for productivity, I use it a lot. Main usage is in presentations in low light, making copies of documents, articles, books, - anything I want to remember, is just often below useability levels. And cropping in to zoom on the K2 photos is most of the time impossible as the photo is too mushy and I cannot read the text.

    The software on the OnePlus6 is fresh, updated, extremely fast, and kind of better than stock Android.

    Actually the speediness of the OP6 adds a great deal to productivity with a great margin. I just get things done fast chack-chack.

    It's just the value proposition of other smartphones is staggeringly more than the Key2, and they improved a lot in 1 year.

    And if someone wants to be a productive person, the Note 10+ is tapping right into that market need, and it seems to be one of the fastest selling Samsung phones ever.

    I noticed an annoying thing with the K2:
    When I type notes on the K2 during conference calls, my listeners complain about the 'funny clicks noise in the background'.

    Also when someone is sleeping next to me, they complain about the physical keyboard noise.

    Then typing notes in meetings and presentations is also a bit funny - if the room is silent, I am the only one around the table with this funny clicking noise.

    It turned out I have to switch to VKB on the K2 in many situations to be silent. And then the screen is so small...
    Last edited by olee2222; 09-19-19 at 11:33 PM.
    09-19-19 11:08 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    If a meeting or presentation is completely silent, so much so that you could hear the pin drop of a BlackBerry keyboard....then I think there is something else going on in the room that would be more worrisome than a keyclick. I guess no one brings laptops to your meetings? Fairly normal part of background noise to me.

    As for someone sleeping next to you....um does that explain the silent meeting room?
    And if they're sleeping, how is it that they're complaining?

    The only place someone is sleeping next to me during work hours, is on a train....and the clickety clack of the train pretty much drowns out any tiny sounds from a physical BlackBerry Keyboard.
    Only the most extremely high strung person could find that sound anywhere near the threshold of bothersome, at least where I come from.

    Can't say i've used an Oppo, but can't say I would either....probably for software security reasons I'd rather use a BlackBerry

    As for Note10....well if you want to lay down $1500 min for it (or on the monthy payoff plan) compared to much less for one of the Keys for more "technically speaking" thrills, that's your choice. However functionally the PKB is more efficient at getting work done in my books. Professional photography is not one of my work, or leisure requirements though. And if it was, I'd be using a professional camera instead of the tiny optics of any smartphone. What I've got seems good enough.
    09-22-19 01:04 AM
  25. mrsimon's Avatar
    I used the Priv 1 year, Key1 1 year, then a OnePlus6 1year, and now again the Key2.

    The PkB is ok-ish. I find the VKB is simply faster to type on and more accurate to with a significant margin.
    Typing lengthy notes in OneNote, writing emails, WhatsApp text - it's just faster on the VKB for me.

    In fact, I find typing notes on meetings and responding to emails way much better on a large screen phone with a VKB than on these tiny little keys of the Key2.

    However, I am curious how the Key2 works for me, so I am happy to give a few months to see how it develops.

    The only main advantage I see of the PKB is that I can change apps very fast, instead of going to the home screen.

    Coming back from the comfortable screen of the OnePlus6 to this tiny Key2 screen is a chore. It feels like I am watching the World through a keyhole. Looking up websites, Google Maps, checking notes in OneNote, reading emails - it just feels limiting on this small device.

    Even if I choose the largest VKB on the OnePlus, I still see more things on the OnePlus as there is more left on the bigger screen than on the K2.

    The camera simply is just inferior in every aspect on the K2. Taking pictures is critical for me for productivity, I use it a lot. Main usage is in presentations in low light, making copies of documents, articles, books, - anything I want to remember, is just often below useability levels. And cropping in to zoom on the K2 photos is most of the time impossible as the photo is too mushy and I cannot read the text.

    The software on the OnePlus6 is fresh, updated, extremely fast, and kind of better than stock Android.

    Actually the speediness of the OP6 adds a great deal to productivity with a great margin. I just get things done fast chack-chack.

    It's just the value proposition of other smartphones is staggeringly more than the Key2, and they improved a lot in 1 year.

    And if someone wants to be a productive person, the Note 10+ is tapping right into that market need, and it seems to be one of the fastest selling Samsung phones ever.

    I noticed an annoying thing with the K2:
    When I type notes on the K2 during conference calls, my listeners complain about the 'funny clicks noise in the background'.

    Also when someone is sleeping next to me, they complain about the physical keyboard noise.

    Then typing notes in meetings and presentations is also a bit funny - if the room is silent, I am the only one around the table with this funny clicking noise.

    It turned out I have to switch to VKB on the K2 in many situations to be silent. And then the screen is so small...
    The aversion and sensitivity to certain repetitive sounds and noises is called "misphonia" , and I suffer from it! metal spoons clinking while stirring coffee in glasses (typical in Spain). drives me insane.
    Also the clicking of the PKB is annoying to me. However, you need to be in a total soundless room. So, I find it weird for people in a meeting to be able to hear it. Maybe it's the noisy key2 spacebar?!!
    So, if you find the clicking of the PKB annoying then you are a misophonia sufferer just like me!!
    09-22-19 03:13 AM
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