[mrsimon]

That might sound somewhat confusing, right?
Wrong.

Sometimes, as BB fans, we don't or won't see the wood for the trees, and think the mobile universe revolves around us.

I don't know about you, but my own personal experience and what I've read on here and seen on social media is that Blackberry doesn't have the most positive of brand images, to say the least.

We all know the "But isn't Blackberry dead?". "Do they still make phones?" phrases.
You've also probably noticed that in most parts people haven't taken to BBMO phones or PKB mobiles in particular.

Why might that be? Has the PKB ship sailed? Unless some very popular public figures and influencers are seen to be using PKB phones, BB10 or Android, then the chances of the average consumer coming back are just a pipedream. And that hasn't happened since TCL took over.

Do you agree that the brand image is of a phone that is either 'dead' or just "outdated and only for nostalgics?" Is the brand "Blackberry" just too toxic to be used successfully?

Don't you think it might be that the PKB ship really has sailed except for a very small minority?

I love the brand and like to use the PKB and also like standing out from the crowd. However, the majority prefer to conform.

The future of a PKB with some resemblance to a Blackberry running on Android will probably be down to an 'untainted' and cool brand that makes using a PKB seem somehow fashionable again, at least for a larger niche market. You guys can probably think of a fashion or mobile brand that could make that happen, but I'm not convinced that Unihertz is the one. And, only trying to capture us Blackberry die-hards wanting a very specific model isn't the answer. AND, that's if a company really thinks they'll find enough PKB fans for a ROI.

So, if the PKB ship has sailed and the Blackberry brand is 'toxic' maybe it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and hope that 'a cool new brand' can make it work.

But I'm not holding my breath….


Are you getting me?

[mrsimon]

Here's what I was thinking from another thread (Thanks):

bb10adopter111
Trusted Member
Any marketing advisor would tell you it's 100x easier to rehabilitate a well-known brand than it is to create one.

TCL's problem is that they confused brand recognition (and BlackBerry is a global brand with strong recognition, as is Palm, to a lesser degree) with brand reputation (BlackBerry is perceived as antiquated, and most people don't really remember exactly what Palm did.)

TCL did many of the things they needed to do to begin the process of rehabilitating BlackBerry. They produced good products consistently, created a DBA company focused on the brand, and secured global, if a bit inconsistent, distribution.

But they never made the significant investments in product and marketing needed to actually change the public's perception of what a BlackBerry device actually is today. This would have required a LOT more money spent

1) on R&D and product design in the case of their slab offering
2) on supporting distributors with marketing subsidies and incentives to win back shelf space
3) on "this is the new BlackBerry" communications campaigns, including advertising, product placement, etc.

This would have been very expensive (on the order of $500 million to $1 billion a year for 2-3 years). I don't think they were EVER prepared to do that.

Posted with my trusty Z10
08-20-19 11:29 AM

[the_boon]

I'm of the opinion that the PKB can still have a modest chance in the market, but not with the BlackBerry name on it.

Besides, take a generic KEYsomething type device from just about any manufacturer, load up the Hub, BB KB, icon pack 10, and a BB10 wallpaper and it'll get you close anyway.

If TCL couldn't make the brand stay afloat, who could? Or more importantly, who would?

There's a much bigger chance of someone out there to make a PKB slider of some kind which mimicks a pocket computer, sort of like the Cosmo communicator

[Troy Tiscareno]

All of the major manufacturers used to make PKBs, but once VKBs improved, and as people started doing far more than email and messaging on their phones, people simply stopped buying them. And even BB PKB fans are buying fewer and fewer every year. While the remaining PKB fans are loud and vocal, there simply aren't enough of them for any major manufacturer to care, and they can see the fate of the one brand who kept them around: lower sales every year.

My prediction is that PKB smartphones (and I'm NOT counting "smarter feature phones" running KaiOS here) are going to be left to Kickstarter projects and the like - no established manufacturer/brand is going to make them anymore. The volume of demand just isn't there.

[Bbnivende]

The house of brands strategy is really silly when your best house brand is your own company name.

Chen’s licensing strategy only added to toxicity of the brand.

[Bbnivende]

Maybe HMD Nokia will make a another retro PKB running KaiOS.

[John Albert]

All of the major manufacturers used to make PKBs, but once VKBs improved, and as people started doing far more than email and messaging on their phones, people simply stopped buying them. And even BB PKB fans are buying fewer and fewer every year. While the remaining PKB fans are loud and vocal, there simply aren't enough of them for any major manufacturer to care, and they can see the fate of the one brand who kept them around: lower sales every year.

My prediction is that PKB smartphones (and I'm NOT counting "smarter feature phones" running KaiOS here) are going to be left to Kickstarter projects and the like - no established manufacturer/brand is going to make them anymore. The volume of demand just isn't there.

Pretty much agree. Unless Nokia revive E series!

[Chuck Finley69]

The house of brands strategy is really silly when your best house brand is your own company name.

Chen’s licensing strategy only added to toxicity of the brand.

All Chen's licensing did was extend the life of the brand an extra three years minimum..

Toxicity of the brand isn't anything but result of the success the brand experienced before the iPhone and first Android slab. Those devices were sold as the anti-BlackBerry since everything was opposite. BlackBerry successfully created iconic snob appeal when a smartphone was symbol of status and power. The brand image was so iconic as to become a caricature of itself...

[John Albert]

Even if very popular public figures wants to buy a BlackBerry phone now, they can't. They are no longer available!

[Bbnivende]

The licensing deals resulted in all touch phones that were priced way higher than the market. By not giving a damn about the product carrying the brand added to the toxicity.

[conite]

The licensing deals resulted in all touch phones that were priced way higher than the market. By not giving a damn about the product carrying the brand added to the toxicity.

Who didn't give a damn about the product? Seems like BlackBerry and BBMo gave it a serious go.

I agree with Chuck 100% - the toxicity was created prior to 2010 when the Apple was perceived as the new cool kid on the block. BlackBerry was for stodgy business types and old folks, and they never got away from that.

"Tools not toys".

[Chuck Finley69]

The licensing deals resulted in all touch phones that were priced way higher than the market. By not giving a damn about the product carrying the brand added to the toxicity.

Without licensing, there wouldn't have been ANY phones and brand was already toast at that point as history proved regarding any VKB hardware before licensing ever happened. There's never been a successful VKB BlackBerry in company history.

[thurask]

Without licensing, there wouldn't have been ANY phones and brand was already toast at that point as history proved regarding any VKB hardware before licensing ever happened.

Without licensing, there wouldn't be any expenditure on lawyers and developers for post-Priv devices; depending on whether or not their 2016-present branded device lineup was profitable they might have saved cash cutting losses earlier.

[Chuck Finley69]

Without licensing, there wouldn't be any expenditure on lawyers and developers for post-Priv devices; depending on whether or not their 2016-present branded device lineup was profitable they might have saved cash cutting losses earlier.

I need you to fit in Key words, either "minivan" or "dumpster" every so often. In this post, "lawyers" suffices.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Who didn't give a damn about the product? Seems like BlackBerry and BBMo gave it a serious go.

I agree with Chuck 100% - the toxicity was created prior to 2010 when the Apple was perceived as the new cool kid on the block. BlackBerry was for stodgy business types and old folks, and they never got away from that.

"Tools not toys".

Or like some you were stuck using a three or four year old phone because work didn't see any difference in a 2007 BlackBerry and a 2010 BlackBerry. Which there wasn't much of a difference between those two device. But compared to the rest of the market at that time....

[TgeekB]

"Tools not toys".

Ahh yes, remember it well.

Whatever happened to those people?

[Bbnivende]

Their brand licensing strategy could only be successful if the end result included VKB phones that offered exceptional value for the price.

[conite]

Their brand licensing strategy could only be successful if the end result included VKB phones that offered exceptional value for the price.

Nah. That was never going to happen, nor do I imagine BBMo would have ever thought it would have either. A vkb device was only ever going to be a gap-plug product.

[Bbnivende]

Nah. That was never going to happen, nor do I imagine BBMo would have ever thought it would have either. A vkb device was only ever going to be a gap-plug product.

Mahieu, speaking to journalists at a briefing ahead of Mobile World Congress 2018, said he hopes to capture 3 percent to 5 percent of the market for premium phones.

“It doesn't have to be a niche business," he said. "I would not be satisfied with market share in premium (phones) that is sub-1 percent forever."

(Premium being mid grade not iPhone etc)

[conite]

Mahieu, speaking to journalists at a briefing ahead of Mobile World Congress 2018, said he hopes to capture 3 percent to 5 percent of the market for premium phones.

“It doesn't have to be a niche business," he said. "I would not be satisfied with market share in premium (phones) that is sub-1 percent forever."

(Premium being mid grade not iPhone etc)

I see no contradiction.

[mrsimon]

[QUOTE=conite;13436885]

BlackBerry was for stodgy business types and old folks, and they never got away from that.

"Tools not toys".[/QUOTE/]
So, Conite, you, me, Chuck...

Blackberry loyalty is with the BBOS for many, and people simply chose PKB or VKB.

Let's face it, without the OS, for some, a Keyx is just an Android phone with the Advantage of a PKB even with a Blackberry badge.

[the_boon]

“It doesn't have to be a niche business," he said. "I would not be satisfied with market share in premium (phones) that is sub-1 percent forever."

And by "not forever" he meant not even 3 years?

[Bbnivende]

Analysts figured that TCL was looking for maybe a 2/3 budget phone 1/3 premium phone mix. They were looking at BB being that 1/3 .

They are now looking at TCL being their premier brand. Their phones will be folding and mid tier all touch.

I can see TCL either surprising us with a new LE or just letting the brand disappear with no comments at all.

[the_boon]

Analysts figured that TCL was looking for maybe a 2/3 budget phone 1/3 premium phone mix. They were looking at BB being that 1/3 .

They are now looking at TCL being their premier brand. Their phones will be folding and mid tier all touch.

I can see TCL either surprising us with a new LE or just letting the brand disappear with no comments at all.

I don't see why they wouldnt try a TCL mid ranger with a PKB, that way they'd know for sure if the BB brand name was the problem

[Bbnivende]

I don't see why they wouldnt try a TCL mid ranger with a PKB, that way they'd know for sure if the BB brand name was the problem

Would the terms of their agreement with BB allow for that? I suspect that the agreement is all or nothing but Conite might know.