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09-22-19 07:02 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Actually it probably won't break the business model, because after 2 years you can really feel comfortable handing your old phone down to your senior youngsters.

    The only phone you can do that at the moment safely is Apple.

    Microsoft for the time being is no longer in the picture, but rumours are they bringing another phone to market.

    Android is in desperate need to have phone's going out to 5-year market.

    The kernel is valid for 6 years.
    I think Microsoft is still a couple of years away from its next foray into mobile handsets. You can bet it won't look anything like the last time and it won't be dependent on developer support of a separate platform. I thinknthey've learned their lesson!

    The next version of Windows will completely separate the core OS from the Interface so that it can flow from device to device in real time. It will make for an interesting model.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-19-19 09:48 PM
  2. Gene Fells's Avatar
    I think Microsoft is still a couple of years away from its next foray into mobile handsets. You can bet it won't look anything like the last time and it won't be dependent on developer support of a separate platform. I thinknthey've learned their lesson!

    The next version of Windows will completely separate the core OS from the Interface so that it can flow from device to device in real time. It will make for an interesting model.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    The rumours of this new folding device (courier) is interesting but one cannot help wondering what it would be used for and who is the target.

    I was a WP user and therefore am interested in what they may be bringing to the market but I'm not convinced a folding 9 inch 4:3 aspect device is the answer.

    I have owned 2 of their surface products with the detachable "soft" keyboards and I would not own another. A laptop (clamshell) is a better alternative and more sturdy.

    I hope they bring something new and innovative to the market in the near future. The market needs some new offerings.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-19 10:02 PM
  3. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Does not sound like a guy who wants to sell BlackBerry phones .
    wrong chen
    09-19-19 10:56 PM
  4. bb9900user2018's Avatar

    Microsoft for the time being is no longer in the picture, but rumours are they bringing another phone to market.
    that would be very interesting, they had what was for many, arguably the best phone when it first came out
    09-19-19 10:58 PM
  5. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Five is the new Two...
    You know many a Kindergarten Teacher might agree with the findings stated here, about 5 being the new 2. At least every once in a while. Maybe something to do with two parents working or something and excessive daycare...anyhow funny.
    09-20-19 04:32 AM
  6. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html

    It's time for Android to match this standard, which means Google will need to move to an update model that matches Apple and Windows: direct updates for 5 years. The OEMs will resist, because they rely on the forced obsolescence that Android provides, but the two-year upgrade model was built on Apple's, and that era isn't coming back.

    And, yes, longer refresh cycles will break the business model for small OEMs like TCL/BBMo. Tough luck, but that's the trend.
    He is on point, at least with Apple the will update the phone for many years. Might be a lesson for TCL and alike to heed.
    09-20-19 05:14 PM
  7. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html

    It's time for Android to match this standard, which means Google will need to move to an update model that matches Apple and Windows: direct updates for 5 years. The OEMs will resist, because they rely on the forced obsolescence that Android provides, but the two-year upgrade model was built on Apple's, and that era isn't coming back.

    And, yes, longer refresh cycles will break the business model for small OEMs like TCL/BBMo. Tough luck, but that's the trend.
    Yep , one of the reasons I got an iPhone was due to the ridiculously long support Apple products get. My iPad Air 2 which I got in 2016 is still getting entire OS updates and running them beautifully, I am on iOS 13.1 Public Beta 4 with it, while my iPhone XS Max is on the official iOS 13 build as its my daily driver and workhorse along with my Apple Watch Series 3 Nike which got Watch OS 6 as well. All these devices will be getting updates for the foreseeable future, which gives me great piece-of-mind.

    The iPhone 6S from 2015 is still getting OS updates 4 years later and running faster than ever.

    Many iOS users keep their devices and just pay for a new battery installation.
    elfabio80, TgeekB, chain13 and 1 others like this.
    09-20-19 07:40 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yep , one of the reasons I got an iPhone was due to the ridiculously long support Apple products get. My iPad Air 2 which I got in 2016 is still getting entire OS updates and running them beautifully, I am on iOS 13.1 Public Beta 4 with it, while my iPhone XS Max is on the official iOS 13 build as its my daily driver and workhorse along with my Apple Watch Series 3 Nike which got Watch OS 6 as well. All these devices will be getting updates for the foreseeable future, which gives me great piece-of-mind.

    The iPhone 6S from 2015 is still getting OS updates 4 years later and running faster than ever.

    Many iOS users keep their devices and just pay for a new battery installation.
    I love Apple's support. I just wish I liked their UX and hardware more. I bought my first iPhone in 2010, but I never enjoyed it. I own an iPad, but only use it for streaming video. iOS just doesn't support the way I work at all.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Tsepz_GP and ppeters914 like this.
    09-21-19 01:38 AM
  9. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    I love Apple's support. I just wish I liked their UX and hardware more. I bought my first iPhone in 2010, but I never enjoyed it. I own an iPad, but only use it for streaming video. iOS just doesn't support the way I work at all.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I would suggest giving iOS 13 a go to see if you still feel the same way about it, it has seen a lot of changes over the past 4-5years, it’s come a long way since the awful iOS 7 launch
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-21-19 01:42 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    Hardware sales business model is wasteful on multiple levels. What will this industry look like decades from now? Landfills??

    Hardware of this 8 year old 9930 has proven perfectly serviceable to date. Just popped a fresh battery in it 5 minutes ago. Took 5 seconds. Just popped a fresh keyboard in it last week. Took 5 minutes. RIM probably barely broke even, if that, selling this hardware. Long term SAF business model was obviously RIM's BIS hardware design priority. A business model that still returns relatively high margins, last I heard. Despite minuscule volume. Not one that keeps hardware manufacturers fat, tho.

    I'd, personally, pay software maintenance SAF equivalent of "new every two" just to be permitted continued use of this "old shoe" hardware. Enduring steep learning curves to re-train muscle memory every two years is NOT optimal to MY margins! NOT something I look forward to every two just to keep hardware manufacturing fat. I'd, personally, PAY to train and perfect communications muscle memory ONCE per lifetime. Whether tongue or thumb! Lol.
    bh7171 likes this.
    09-21-19 05:24 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I would suggest giving iOS 13 a go to see if you still feel the same way about it, it has seen a lot of changes over the past 4-5years, it’s come a long way since the awful iOS 7 launch
    I will play with it on my iPad, but, honestly, my issues are with Apple ecosystem lock-ins, such as not being able to download hi-res music and videos locally to an SD card.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-21-19 10:23 AM
  12. chain13's Avatar
    I will play with it on my iPad, but, honestly, my issues are with Apple ecosystem lock-ins, such as not being able to download hi-res music and videos locally to an SD card.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    No ios device even has sdcard. So you need download the music and put it in your ipad from pc through itunes, then install VOX from appstore on your ipad. VOX is one of the best music player app that capable of playing high res (flac/alac/etc) and variety of music formats in ios.
    09-21-19 10:14 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No ios device even has sdcard. So you need download the music and put it in your ipad from pc through itunes, then install VOX from appstore on your ipad. VOX is one of the best music player app that capable of playing high res (flac/alac/etc) and variety of music formats in ios.
    Yes, I know Apple doesn't offer SD card slots. That was my point. And, while there are lots of workarounds for the iOS storage limitations, none of them really address the issue.

    I Ike to carry about 250GB of hi-res music on the subway, where there is no WiFi or cell service. Apple's reliance on cloud storage and syncing is a deal-breaker for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-21-19 10:50 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    09-21-19 10:52 PM
  15. chain13's Avatar
    Yes, there are lots of workarounds for the iOS storage limitations, but I Ike to carry about 250GB of hi-rez music on the subway, where there is no WiFi or cell service. Apple's reliance on cloud storage and syncing is a deal-breaker for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    You don't need to sync through cloud. Just connect your ipad to your pc, then your ios's device storage will appear in itunes, then you can copy all your hi-res directly (you can't use windows explorer to copy from/to ios). That's all offline without clouds.
    09-21-19 10:59 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Before someone tells me that 250 GB is too much space for music, remember that a single minute of stereo 192/24 lossless audio requires 66MB of storage, so 250GB is less than 64 hours of music, or approximately 100 albums. That's really not a lot.

    I realize that Apple would rather I stream music or use iTunes, and that's my issue. I don't like being locked in to proprietary services. That's why I buy my music in the first place.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    anon(10321802) likes this.
    09-21-19 11:04 PM
  17. chain13's Avatar
    Before someone tells me that 250 GB is too much space for music, remember that a single minute of stereo 192/24 lossless audio requires 66MB of storage, so 250GB is less than 64 hours of music, or approximately 100 albums. That's really not a lot.

    I realize that Apple would rather I stream music or use iTunes, and that's my issue. I don't like being locked in to proprietary services. That's why I buy my music in the first place.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    You don't need to subscribe to any stream services, but yes you have to use itunes for copying files to ios since ios doesn't support its internal storage to be accessed by windows explorer. It's prebuilt feature for copying files from pc to ios, what you need to do is just log in to your apple id in your itunes.

    And where do you buy your hires music anyway?
    Last edited by chain13; 09-22-19 at 12:47 AM.
    09-22-19 12:32 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You don't need to subscribe to any stream services, but yes you have to use itunes for copying files to ios since ios doesn't support its internal storage to be accessed by windows explorer. It's prebuilt feature for copying files from pc to ios, what you need to do is just log in to your apple id in your itunes.

    And where do you buy your hires music anyway?
    I appreciate the advice. I think you should know that I don't need an explanation of how iTunes works with iOS and Windows. I was an early partner with Apple on producing podcasts for education between 2005 and 2009. My team led a group of several hundred educators who produced thousands of free podcasts. Apple gave us all iPhones at launch.

    I purchase my files from a number of sources, including Acoustic Sounds Super HiRez, HDtracks, and ProStudio Masters.

    Also, there is no version of iPhone or iPad except the new iPhone 11 Pro that offers enough memory to address my issue. Streaming or constantly downloading 6 gigs of data just to listen to an album isn't an option. My carrier would throttle my data within the first week of each month!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-22-19 01:45 AM
  19. chain13's Avatar
    such as not being able to download hi-res music and videos locally to an SD card.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I appreciate the advice. I think you should know that I don't need an explanation of how iTunes works with iOS and Windows. I was an early partner with Apple on producing podcasts for education between 2005 and 2009. My team led a group of several hundred educators who produced thousands of free podcasts. Apple gave us all iPhones at launch.

    I purchase my files from a number of sources, including Acoustic Sounds Super HiRez, HDtracks, and ProStudio Masters.

    Also, there is no version of iPhone or iPad except the new iPhone 11 Pro that offers enough memory to address my issue. Streaming or constantly downloading 6 gigs of data just to listen to an album isn't an option. My carrier would throttle my data within the first week of each month!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    That's sad, the solution I suggesting was "ios is not being able to download hires music and video locally", It can. But how many storage you have is different story. What phone you're using to listen those hires actually?

    I personally think that hires media would only be worth enjoying in more proper equipment like home teather or something.
    Last edited by chain13; 09-22-19 at 08:07 AM.
    09-22-19 02:29 AM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    That's sad, the solution I suggesting was "ios is not being able to download hires music and video locally", It can. But how many storage you have is different story. What phone you're using to listen those hires actually?

    I personally think that hires media would only be worth enjoying in more proper equipment like home teather or something.
    I have a 256GB SD card than I keep my current playlist on and move between devices as needed.

    You're right that 192/24 files sound better on dedicated equipment, but I don't want to buy multiple versions of the same music, and I also can use an outboard DAC with my KEYone when I travel that can absolutely take advantage of the higher fidelity.

    Apple's solutions are aimed at the mass market. I love my iPad for streaming video, for example. I also applaud them for their support policies and general approach to security. But they really don't meet my specific mobile needs for many reasons beyond the storage issue. I just don't work the way the Apple dev team seems to think I should.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    chain13 likes this.
    09-22-19 10:33 AM
  21. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    I have a 256GB SD card than I keep my current playlist on and move between devices as needed.

    You're right that 192/24 files sound better on dedicated equipment, but I don't want to buy multiple versions of the same music, and I also can use an outboard DAC with my KEYone when I travel that can absolutely take advantage of the higher fidelity.

    Apple's solutions are aimed at the mass market. I love my iPad for streaming video, for example. I also applaud them for their support policies and general approach to security. But they really don't meet my specific mobile needs for many reasons beyond the storage issue. I just don't work the way the Apple dev team seems to think I should.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Apologies in advance for the tangent.

    I just need to tell you I thoroughly enjoy your posts in the CB Forums and appreciate your perspective and insights. You sound like a cool guy to know.

    You've piqued my interest in lossless audio and outboard DACs. How would you describe the difference in sound between your average Spotify track played on a smartphone vs lossless audio played via an outboard DAC?

    Do you listen to lossless audio on your Z10? Or is the Z10 strictly business?
    09-22-19 07:02 PM
46 12

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