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09-22-19 07:02 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html

    It's time for Android to match this standard, which means Google will need to move to an update model that matches Apple and Windows: direct updates for 5 years. The OEMs will resist, because they rely on the forced obsolescence that Android provides, but the two-year upgrade model was built on Apple's, and that era isn't coming back.

    And, yes, longer refresh cycles will break the business model for small OEMs like TCL/BBMo. Tough luck, but that's the trend.
    09-18-19 07:45 PM
  2. gebco's Avatar
    One of the reasons I bought a Pixel is because of the 3 years worth of security updates. Original Pixel just got Android 10.
    cribble2k likes this.
    09-18-19 09:13 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    One of the reasons I bought a Pixel is because of the 3 years worth of security updates. Original Pixel just got Android 10.
    Going with the Pixels is becoming an increasingly compelling option precisely because of the update certainty.

    I wish there was a smaller Pixel LE.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    09-18-19 09:20 PM
  4. gebco's Avatar
    Pixel 3 is 0.25 inches higher and 0.12 inches wider than Key2. I'm using the Pixel 2 XL and don't find it unwieldy. But IIRC you prefer a smaller phone like the Z10?

    Going with the Pixels is becoming an increasingly compelling option precisely because of the update certainty.

    I wish there was a smaller Pixel LE.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-18-19 09:33 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Pixel 3 is 0.25 inches higher and 0.12 inches wider than Key2. I'm using the Pixel 2 XL and don't find it unwieldy. But IIRC you prefer a smaller phone like the Z10?
    Yes. I prefer a one-handed phone for quickly scanning my inbox.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-18-19 09:38 PM
  6. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Going with the Pixels is becoming an increasingly compelling option precisely because of the update certainty.

    I wish there was a smaller Pixel LE.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Yes, and I actually think that Pixel phones will ultimately receive more than 3 years of updates.
    09-18-19 10:29 PM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html

    It's time for Android to match this standard, which means Google will need to move to an update model that matches Apple and Windows: direct updates for 5 years. The OEMs will resist, because they rely on the forced obsolescence that Android provides, but the two-year upgrade model was built on Apple's, and that era isn't coming back.

    And, yes, longer refresh cycles will break the business model for small OEMs like TCL/BBMo. Tough luck, but that's the trend.
    Does not sound like a guy who wants to sell BlackBerry phones .
    09-18-19 11:38 PM
  8. Invictus0's Avatar
    Project Mainline could accomplish just that on Android, at least for security updates.
    09-19-19 01:23 AM
  9. kvndoom's Avatar
    Does not sound like a guy who wants to sell BlackBerry phones .
    Wrong Chen. 😉
    09-19-19 05:29 AM
  10. kvndoom's Avatar
    Project Mainline could accomplish just that on Android, at least for security updates.
    And the rub, of course, is that will do nothing for the hundreds of millions of older Android phones still in use that won't ever get Q or later.
    09-19-19 05:32 AM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Wrong Chen.
    Too funny. It just seemed like something John Chen would say or has said.
    SeeBeeEss likes this.
    09-19-19 08:45 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Does not sound like a guy who wants to sell BlackBerry phones .
    I don't want to sell ANY phones. That's not my job. I'm not a cheerleader.

    I am a fan of the legacy BlackBerry user experience as exemplified in BBOS and BB10, with a preference for the VKB experience on the Z10.

    I care about being able to

    1) quickly scan a handful of email accounts with one hand.

    2) Control all notifications at the level of account, context, and sender. (Example: when setting the context to "client meeting" only a phone call from my business partner, wife, or child's school will ring. All other notifications will be silent. And any email from my partner will light up the LED in Blue.)

    3) Compose text quickly with a first class VKB in a monochrome window with no distracting buttons and controls.

    Everything else on a phone is optional for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-19-19 09:57 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Project Mainline could accomplish just that on Android, at least for security updates.
    That's my hope. I will definitely not consider any phones that don't support Project Mainline. I think Android's near-term goal is four years' of security patches, since that's the period on the revised Enterprise Recommended program.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-19-19 10:05 AM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I don't want to sell ANY phones. That's not my job. I'm not a cheerleader.

    I am a fan of the legacy BlackBerry user experience as exemplified in BBOS and BB10, with a preference for the VKB experience on the Z10.

    I care about being able to

    1) quickly scan a handful of email accounts with one hand.

    2) Control all notifications at the level of account, context, and sender. (Example: when setting the context to "client meeting" only a phone call from my business partner, wife, or child's school will ring. All other notifications will be silent. And any email from my partner will light up the LED in Blue.)

    3) Compose text quickly with a first class VKB in a monochrome window with no distracting buttons and controls.

    Everything else on a phone is optional for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I was referring to Chen but I had the wrong Chen.

    The problem with keeping BlackBerry phones running for four or more years will be in getting the spare parts. Battery, screen and keyboard etc.

    My BlackBerry phones were unique in that the software failed before the physical phone died. My mid priced Samsung’s battery gave out prematurely.

    Four years on a phone with one new battery should be a realistic proposition. Many carriers do not offer good BYOD plans though and in Canada the pricing under plans is not transparent.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 09-19-19 at 10:40 AM.
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    09-19-19 10:16 AM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    And the rub, of course, is that will do nothing for the hundreds of millions of older Android phones still in use that won't ever get Q or later.
    Definitely, and even after it launches it remains to be seen how well it's supported by OEMs and Google.
    09-19-19 10:38 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I was referring to Chen but I had the wrong Chen.

    The problem with keeping BlackBerry phones running for four or more years will be in getting the spare parts. Battery, screen and keyboard etc.

    My BlackBerry phones were unique in that the software failed before the physical phone died. My mid priced Samsung’s battery gave out prematurely.

    Four years on a phone with one new battery should be a realistic proposition. Many carriers do not offer good BYOD plans though and in Canada the pricing under plans is not transparent.
    Obviously, I don't expect people who drop, drown, or otherwise abuse their phones in other ways to necessarily get five years out of them. But I think that, at this point in the development of smartphones, a phone should not become obsolete in less than five years.

    There are major changes, such as the introduction of 5G, that may lead many people to upgrade sooner, and other may just want a new phone every year, but those are consumer choices, not expectations or requirements.

    The two-year upgrade cycle dates to the last decade, when hardware and software were taking much bigger leaps than the incremental ones we see today. My wealthy friends with iPhone 7s aren't lining up to get iPhone 11s. The reason is that their current devices still work just fine for daily use and phones are no longer a status symbol.
    rarsen likes this.
    09-19-19 11:46 AM
  17. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    It's time for Android to match this standard
    That's not a standard, it's just one guy's opinion.
    I would argue that while Apple's innovation may have plateaued, there still is progress being made with regards to Android.
    cribble2k likes this.
    09-19-19 12:20 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    That's not a standard, it's just one guy's opinion.
    I would argue that while Apple's innovation may have plateaued, there still is progress being made with regards to Android.
    The "standard" I'm referring to is Apple's five-years of support, not the writer's opinion.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-19-19 01:53 PM
  19. bh7171's Avatar
    No one can refute Apple's support commitment. That support gives them loyalty. Most Android OEM's are too short sighted to see this, especially with privacy and security becoming more concerning to users.

    This being said older Android devices still work and operate perfectly well. I have a Samsung Tab Pro 10.1 tablet on the original battery and KitKat 4.4.2 that works 100 percent perfectly well for anything I need a tablet to do. It was released in March of '14.
    melhiore likes this.
    09-19-19 02:38 PM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    No one can refute Apple's support commitment. That support gives them loyalty. Most Android OEM's are too short sighted to see this, especially with privacy and security becoming more concerning to users.
    It's not that they're too short-sighted, it's that their profit margins are a mere fraction of what Apple's is, and their user base (with a couple of exceptions) is much smaller too, which means there's FAR less money available to spend on the development and certification work necessary to support older phones.

    And just as happened in the PC industry, the smaller players will find it increasingly difficult to compete, and will either leave the business, be acquired by bigger companies, or go bankrupt. That will leave a handful of bigger companies who do have enough resources to do an acceptable job supporting older phones, and all or nearly all of the niche/low volume brands will be gone.
    pdr733 and ppeters914 like this.
    09-19-19 02:46 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's not that they're too short-sighted, it's that their profit margins are a mere fraction of what Apple's is, and their user base (with a couple of exceptions) is much smaller too, which means there's FAR less money available to spend on the development and certification work necessary to support older phones.

    And just as happened in the PC industry, the smaller players will find it increasingly difficult to compete, and will either leave the business, be acquired by bigger companies, or go bankrupt. That will leave a handful of bigger companies who do have enough resources to do an acceptable job supporting older phones, and all or nearly all of the niche/low volume brands will be gone.
    This is absolutely true, and Google's original strategy of providing Android free to OEMs and letting them all customize it, in order to prevent a system of "closed" mobile ecosystems a la Apple is what created the problem. It worked for their core business, because no one company controls the mobile Internet, but it's a challenge for Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-19-19 03:38 PM
  22. Bla1ze's Avatar
    This is absolutely true, and Google's original strategy of providing Android free to OEMs and letting them all customize it, in order to prevent a system of "closed" mobile ecosystems a la Apple is what created the problem.
    Also part of why we're starting to see those smaller companies stick to 'stock Android' or move to Android One. It allows them to keep the costs lower, and roll out those updates when Google does. They don't have to do as much in order to please customers when it comes to updates. See: Nokia/HMD
    rarsen and TgeekB like this.
    09-19-19 05:15 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    This is absolutely true, and Google's original strategy of providing Android free to OEMs and letting them all customize it, in order to prevent a system of "closed" mobile ecosystems a la Apple is what created the problem. It worked for their core business, because no one company controls the mobile Internet, but it's a challenge for Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    True.
    It certainly helped during the development phase of Android but, now that its matured, it has become a challenge to sustain.
    09-19-19 05:46 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html
    Wow! So that should give BlackBerry until about 2022 to get bb10 restarted, to recapture old bb0s and bb10 users, and then some..
    I agree!..... Heck I just picked up an android yesterday to use, and found the same faults I found with that Android Tablet circa 2012, that gave me great joy when I switched to a blackberry playbook.
    09-19-19 07:22 PM
  25. nevilleadaniels's Avatar
    In the New York Times yesterday, Brian X. Chen comes right out and says that iPhone users should not upgrade working phones less than five years old, because the pace of innovation has slowed to the point that there isn't sufficient value for most owners to upgrade 4 year-old and newer phones.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/t...11-review.html

    It's time for Android to match this standard, which means Google will need to move to an update model that matches Apple and Windows: direct updates for 5 years. The OEMs will resist, because they rely on the forced obsolescence that Android provides, but the two-year upgrade model was built on Apple's, and that era isn't coming back.

    And, yes, longer refresh cycles will break the business model for small OEMs like TCL/BBMo. Tough luck, but that's the trend.
    Actually it probably won't break the business model, because after 2 years you can really feel comfortable handing your old phone down to your senior youngsters.

    The only phone you can do that at the moment safely is Apple.

    Microsoft for the time being is no longer in the picture, but rumours are they bringing another phone to market.

    Android is in desperate need to have phone's going out to 5-year market.

    The kernel is valid for 6 years.
    Last edited by nevilleadaniels; 09-19-19 at 09:16 PM.
    09-19-19 09:01 PM
46 12

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