06-12-10 01:38 PM
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  1. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    Let me preface this by saying this may end up rather long, and in NO way do I hate any other platform. Just have seen some comments lately, most of them becoming rather popular, and thought maybe we could have some nice, educated conversation about it.

    *Note - If you plan to leave rude, derogatory, or any other type of negative remark - please refrain and keep all conversation positive here.

    After revealing the 9650, the 9300, the 9800 and OS6 I have seen many comments surfacing about how RIM has just lost their "wow" factor, and that they really need to come up with something soon or else they will be in big trouble since many are jumping ship. Personally this comment is one that you would see from someone who doesn't know much about the company, or the group of people that RIM always has, and will continue to target, the business users using their devices on BES. RIM has never to my knowledge been a company that aimed for the "wow" factor on any of their devices or the operating system in which they put on it. The device is mainly meant for a person who needs to be "always connected", correct? That is why we have such great push email support across all email providers and instant communication with BBM, right? Granted RIM has tried some new things like their SureType, SurePress, trackpads, etc, and while none of them are earth shattering or ground breaking, do they really need to be?

    Many true business users are looking for a device that will give them instant access to their email while on the go, the ability to have their contacts and calendar with them and be able to get a hold of someone at the office quickly. Which function of this would be enhanced by an OS in which you are able to put a twitter widget on your home screen or have your whole itunes library with you easily?

    While yes, the BlackBerry OS could use some enhancements in some areas, and a graphic overhaul would be warmly welcomed, the device still functions as it is, and it does so pretty well. In no way do I think that the BlackBerry OS is perfect, and yes I have used other OS's and I don't think they are perfect either.

    Android is on the rise, and the iPhone continues to improve, but they haven't been around for nearly as long as the BlackBerry has. I am sure if we owned these devices 10 years ago we would think that this platform was the greatest thing ever and be in love with it, so why does that change now? Personally I feel as though Android and iPhone will have to peak eventually, and while they are on the rise now, it can't last forever.

    At the end of the day it does simply come down to which device best fits your needs, which won't be the same for everyone, which is why their are choices. We need to all be able to see the flaws and strengths of each of these operating systems and make judgements according to who they are targeted to in addition to our personal feelings. Would love to hear what other members here think about this topic, especially if any of you have used another OS for an extended period of time.
    06-11-10 05:07 PM
  2. CrackBerry Storm meh's Avatar
    RIM has made several promises that it has not delivered. If they tell us that there will be a certain feature in their OS - It should be in the OS already, without forcing us to wait for them to pull themselves together. Is it too much to ask for them to give us a finished product, one with few significant problems?
    06-11-10 05:22 PM
  3. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    Do you happen to have any specific examples of what RIM has promised and never delivered on, as well as what significant problems you see on released devices / where they are incomplete?
    06-11-10 05:27 PM
  4. mattyg151's Avatar
    I don't think RIM needs a "wow" factor, but they do need to be more innovative not just looks but functionality wise. What it comes down to is people slam Apple, and other companies, for not changing much between OS releases yet until recently no one has ever slammed RIM and they do the same thing. Not only am I a business user on a BES, but I'm also a BES admin and I'm saying they need to step it up a bit if they want to compete in the consumer market, which from all of there recent moves implies that they do. I agree that BlackBerry is good at what they do, but they need to solidify their position if they want to stay ahead of the competition. People took stabs at Apple for "finally" adding multi-tasking, but what people don't realize is that Apple listens to what consumers/corporation want fixed. If RIM did this I believe that is all they need. No "wow" factor needed, but listen to what both your consumer and corporate users are asking for and then deliver. I think the Beta Zone was a step in the right direction at this goal by giving users access to early software both handheld and BES and allowing them to test and then take detailed surveys to get reactions. I hope this continues to expand because this is what they have been missing IMO.
    06-11-10 05:29 PM
  5. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    My only issue with what you have stated is this insistence of people to believe that
    BlackBerry is a business device.

    That was true up until the Pearl. from that point forward RIM made a concerted,
    albeit half-hearted, effort to enter the consumer space.

    Business / governmental users are probably not looking for the "WOW" but the
    general consumer, the group RIM courted and seems hellbent on ignoring does.
    And lets face it, they are not delivering, not just on the "WOW" but on some very
    simple and basic things (add contact to something other than Work).

    Combine that with the fact that they keep retreading old devices and calling it
    something new it is completely understandable why people are losing interest.

    None of this means I like the amount of foolishness that has erupted as of late
    but I get it and can see why people move on. I just wish they would quietly.
    06-11-10 05:42 PM
  6. phikai's Avatar
    RIM most certainly does need to produce that WOW factor. While their primary market might still be corporations with everyone using BES, the fact is consumers still buy phones, it's a huge market and they're going to leave a bunch on the table if they don't appeal to these users.

    I also think we are and will continue to move into a new culture of technology where fewer and fewer companies will provide cell phones/computers etc to their employees. If you take a BlackBerry off BES and want to use exchange, the experience is AWFUL (in my personal experience connecting via OWA). My personal experience with connecting to Exchange on an Android is a million times better.

    I pay my own phone bill, my company doesn't, in fact they don't even care if I have my email, but I like to have it.

    Honesty, while the biggest problem people talk about is the Operating System, and it's lack of cool features, the trickle down effect of the way the operating system is built is what really causes the problems. Prefacing this by saying that I'm a proponent of web apps vs. native applications...but the BlackBerry developer environment is ****. It's hard to develop for, and developers generally aren't supporting the platform like they are for Android/iPhone. And the browser (while supposedly getting better) isn't up to snuff to support what people have done on the net.

    I liked my BlackBerry when I had it, and maybe I'm just crazy, but after switching to my Incredible there is no way I could power my BlackBerry back on knowing what I'd be missing.

    There is not a single experience from the BlackBerry that I'm missing...

    RIM needs to figure out what they want to do, it's certainly fine if they only want to attract and tackle the corporate market, but be honest about it and stop trying to appeal to consumers with your advertising and carrier promotion.

    I suppose I have more thoughts on the subject...but that'll do for now.
    06-11-10 05:48 PM
  7. skyboxer's Avatar
    RIM does listen to the consumer. Threaded texting was added to OS 5, and the webkit browser will be added to BB6. Now if they would improve the displaying of emails I really couldn't ask for more.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 05:55 PM
  8. Motorcycle Mama's Avatar
    Does RIM need the 'wow' factor?

    No, in my opinion. Not for me anyway. I am not looking for "wow".

    Currently, a BlackBerry device on a BlackBerry Data Plan meets my needs.

    As you stated, at the end of the day, it simply comes down to which device best fits your needs, which won't be the same for everyone, which is why there are choices.
    06-11-10 05:56 PM
  9. CrackBerry Storm meh's Avatar
    Do you happen to have any specific examples of what RIM has promised and never delivered on, as well as what significant problems you see on released devices / where they are incomplete?
    1) I never said that they never delivered - We would get some features later on. Also, as they release a new OS, there are usually obvious problems... They expect us to wait around while they fix scrolling through messages etc.

    2) As for significant problems on released devices - Tour and Storm are great examples. The physical keyboard blackberry market does not experience as many problems because they are generally all the same, just differing in form (and scrolling device)
    06-11-10 06:01 PM
  10. cdf3's Avatar
    Perhaps 2 different types of BlackBerry OS's wouldn't be a bad idea.
    I feel as though they should still create the form factor that many have grown accustomed to. Especially for many that wish to upgrade their BlackBerry devices, while not having the need nor interest in learning a totally revamped OS.
    They should also create a phone and a consumer based BlackBerry OS that still do the things we like about BlackBerry, but some additional tweaks for those of us that want the extra perks, and don't mind learning how to use those new features. That will give us BlackBerry users more choices.
    At the moment it's either do you want a qwerty keypad or touch screen. It should be do you want OS 6.0 or OS 6.0 MX Pro. Just a thought.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by cdf3; 06-11-10 at 06:06 PM.
    06-11-10 06:04 PM
  11. chetpdes's Avatar
    I think part of the issue is that we know the other operating systems are progressing at such a rapid pace compared to BlackBerry OS - it's not just about the "wow" factor. Android's the poster boy, and rightfully so (if all these 2.2 froyo things I keep hearing about hold true). Apple's iOS has made some significant improvements for v. 4.0, and the new iPhone actually has the processing power to follow through on the multitasking promises that were made. Android has made significant improvements in each iteration, and introduced new features (e.g. turn-by-turn navigation) that can potentially upend markets. The WebOS front has been somewhat quiet by comparison, but I am positive HP is working feverishly behind the scenes to take an already brilliant OS and give it even greater mass appeal. Microsoft is replacing their business-friendly OS with one of the slickest interfaces I have ever seen on any handheld product. What has RIM added from 4.6xxx whatever to 5.0 to 6.0? Threaded text messaging?

    The issue is that the other operating systems can catch up in at least some of these business features. Maybe not BES, true, but there's no reason Apple, say, can't build a calendar that's better in every way then the BB one (check the iPad for proof).

    I say this as a loyal Tour owner. After watching the BB6 ad, I am concerned for RIM's future, because I know a lot of companies and organizations (including my own) are caving in to the demands of users and handing out iPhones instead of BlackBerries in some cases. I know very little about encryption or servers or anything, but I do know that if RIM doesn't have the "wow" factor, they at least need to keep their focus on *improving* their products to serve the corporate market, and I have not seen much evidence of that. Meanwhile, Android and iOS become more friendly to both consumers and businesses at every turn, it seems. From what I hear, Android handles push e-mail wonderfully, though I obviously don't get to try it out for myself. (Purposely leaving out Windows Phone and WebOS - they both look wonderful, but at this stage I see them as targeted specifically to consumers, kinda like the iPhone was when it was first released).
    06-11-10 06:04 PM
  12. grahamf's Avatar
    I don't really think RIM needs a wow factor.
    from the beginning it was designed to be a communications tool, and be able to do it's job flawlessly and transparently to the user. Now it would be nice if it could do web pages etc better, but it is still designed to be a communications tool and to work.
    With my blackberry Storm 9530 I can EASILY use it one handed for almost everything. the suretype wrks fine and the screen is just the right size that i can reach the far corner with my thumb without adjusting my grip. I only charge my device every night and i never have to worry about killing my battery halfway thorough the day, even if i forgot to charge last night.
    06-11-10 06:06 PM
  13. weblou's Avatar
    I don't think RIM needs the "WOW" factor. They been around very long... When a company enters the game needs the WOW factor to get users away from the current brand there using and on to there new product. Take the Iphone for example. When they released in 07 they gave that WOW factor... Since then?? Nothing really. They added a few things and fixed some stuff up but nothing wow out of them... And to be honest why would they? They have there market, good product, people like it... There not going after the wow. Now Android is the one doing all the WOW every second week... But there new and have to penetrate the market so they really need this wow factor to get users to drop there BB's and Iphone's and join them.
    Now RIM as a strong user base consumer and business and needs to satisfy both but not offending anyone by changing much. A lot of are going to say the want the wow when they buy something but there's allot that don't and that's where RIM kicks in.. Simple, easy, and just works.
    I think they need to add some new features to satisfy there user base...nothing wow...but some much needed features
    -contacts
    -email
    -DM
    -browser
    -app world

    Those are some of the top of my head but I think really need to get done. I know that OS6 might have some of those fixed but I got to see it to believe. Also the search bar they are adding in 6 is great... I think there focus should be on how to make things faster and simpler for there users. Since most of the people using BB are using them as tools to make there lives more simple.
    When the new Iphone comes out I'll be getting it .... Not leaving BB, but I have an upgrade on my personal line and think that the Iphone well be great for that upgrade... I think BB and Iphone have two different purposes and compliment each other well

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by TheBBman; 06-11-10 at 06:27 PM.
    06-11-10 06:23 PM
  14. grover5's Avatar
    I think we also tend to discuss the consumer market in regard to what tech geeks in North America want. I have a couple friends who chose the 8530 over the HTC EVO because it was much cheaper, did what they wanted (good call quality, messaging, email, calendar and music). They didn't understand the need for a laptop experience. I think once you leave North America the numbers of these types of folks might increase. It is possible that the ceiling for Android and Apple is lower based on their product line. At any rate I am happy with what I have but I definitely would like faster improvement. And for the record I am not a long time BB user but have used many platforms. I just like me some 9700.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 06:23 PM
  15. alby4ever's Avatar
    RIM does listen to the consumer. Threaded texting was added to OS 5, and the webkit browser will be added to BB6. Now if they would improve the displaying of emails I really couldn't ask for more.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    While Apple added HD movie recording and editing, retina display, video calling, etc.
    Google adds portable wifi hotspot and music streaming from desktop from 2.1 to 2.2 alone.

    Not to mention the numerous advantages they already carried over BB's. When is RIM going to upgrade their display?

    RIM is reactive to consumers (aka slow) and Apple and Google are proactive. Big difference.

    Consumers like you who don't encourage a TECH company to improve along with the competition are the ones who spell their doom.
    06-11-10 06:23 PM
  16. alby4ever's Avatar
    Also if RIM wasn't trying to WOW the world, they wouldn't have put out that ridiculous BB6 dancing video with a 2008 pop song. That video is the most ironic video in the history of product introductions. Using a song that has the lines "I'm 2008, you're 2000 and late" to introduce an OS that is commonly described with such lyrics is still mind boggling until this day. Was RIM making a joke at themselves or are they really that out of touch to pick an awful song with ironic lyrics?
    06-11-10 06:28 PM
  17. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    While Apple added HD movie recording and editing, retina display, video calling, etc.
    Google adds portable wifi hotspot and music streaming from desktop from 2.1 to 2.2 alone.

    Not to mention the numerous advantages they already carried over BB's. When is RIM going to upgrade their display?

    RIM is reactive to consumers (aka slow) and Apple and Google are proactive. Big difference.

    Consumers like you who don't encourage a TECH company to improve along with the competition are the ones who spell their doom.
    Personally I think they all are reactive. Apple took 3 years to add multi tasking, Google took 2 years to add live wallpapers, and multi touch.

    While Google and Apple may have shown a little more innovation as of their latest release, that isnt enough to base on for me that they will continue to do the same.

    It's not that I don't encourage tech companies to innovate and progress, I am just merely saying that people have these false perceptions of the company.
    06-11-10 06:29 PM
  18. grover5's Avatar
    I like that song.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 06:31 PM
  19. alby4ever's Avatar
    Simple, easy, and just works.
    As has been pointed out numerous times, battery pulls, constantly low memory, lagging when opening several apps at once, messages that delete themselves because of low memory, ditto with calendar entries, etc aren't simple, easy, and just works.

    In fact, the iPhone and Android phones are just as simple, easy, and just works, if not more than BB's.
    06-11-10 06:31 PM
  20. weblou's Avatar
    Why you think everyone has the same TECH need like you?? Personally I couldn't care less about HD recording on my phone, don't care about the speed of the processor, don't care about the graphics.... During the weekdays.... Especially working hours, I care about email, calls, bbm, battery.... I could care less how many pixels my screen has... If I could see it I'm good.... And when I have time to relax last thing I want to do is stare at my phone.

    Consumers like you who don't encourage a TECH company to improve along with the competition are the ones who spell their doom.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 06:33 PM
  21. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    As has been pointed out numerous times, battery pulls, constantly low memory, lagging when opening several apps at once, messages that delete themselves because of low memory, ditto with calendar entries, etc aren't simple, easy, and just works.

    In fact, the iPhone and Android phones are just as simple, easy, and just works, if not more than BB's.
    Battery pulls happen from time to time, and low memory errors are far less common on new devices. People run into the same issues on Android, I have been in the situation first hand.

    Granted - the calendar is definitely not the best, and duplicate entries are a pain @ times but for the functionality is there, most of those issues are user error.

    As for the Android device, eh, the "just works" i dont know that I agree, the set up and such can be more complex, don't get me wrong it does work well, but it would be for the more tech savvy IMO.
    06-11-10 06:35 PM
  22. weblou's Avatar
    Maybe you need to take sometime and read the manual before you use a BB. Because those things never happen to me.

    As has been pointed out numerous times, battery pulls, constantly low memory, lagging when opening several apps at once, messages that delete themselves because of low memory, ditto with calendar entries, etc aren't simple, easy, and just works.

    In fact, the iPhone and Android phones are just as simple, easy, and just works, if not more than BB's.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 06:37 PM
  23. grover5's Avatar
    Alby I think you are a little dated on the current crop of BB issues. I don't have memory leaks or memory issues. I pulled my battery last week. My GF has pulled her mytouch 3g battery about 4 times since then.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-11-10 06:39 PM
  24. alby4ever's Avatar
    Alby I think you are a little dated on the current crop of BB issues. I don't have memory leaks or memory issues. I pulled my battery last week. My GF has pulled her mytouch 3g battery about 4 times since then.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I had the Bold 9000 for a year after paying off-contract price for it. If anything, my beef with RIM is having felt duped after all the issues I've encountered. I frequent the CB forums so I know the tricks here and there to maximize performance, but it never felt like the top of the line BB that it was supposed to be. I know more phones have come out with more memory, but then you start asking yourself about the capabilities vs other phones. And that's when it becomes hard to ignore the iPhone and Android talk. And my Nexus One has been great since.

    When I see non-tech-savvy girls getting Android phones (mostly Evo), if RIM can't dupe them into getting BB's, being the messaging fanatics they are, then it's a good sign RIM is in trouble. And yes this is only one example so don't go and say I'm only basing it on this.
    06-11-10 06:47 PM
  25. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    People will go for flashy first, its a proven fact. They will look at the Android devices and iPhone, maybe even purchase. Give them some time to learn about it and they will wish they went BlackBerry, and many even go return / exchange their initial selection so they can get a BlackBerry.

    Witnessed first hand, many times.
    06-11-10 06:50 PM
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