[araskin]

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

There is no doubt that BB10 is going to be awesome. I am sure that between the TAT, QNX and Torch teams we are going to have an awesome OS. But here is my question, is it enough? Will current DROID or iOS customers ever consider BB just because we have achieved parity? Or, in order to survive, does RIM have to pull "an apple" and actually release something that is revolutionary?

[James Nieves]

I think BB10 must definitely wedge itself between Android and iOS within the market in order to gain market share. I think long term RIM success has them using QNX to power other technologies, and we will likely see the overall RIM portfolio diversify as Blackberry begins to bring it's own solutions *like apple does*

2cents^

[lnichols]

Android, and more specifically Samsung with Android, has shown that people will go for something not made by Apple that has a touch screen, good UI, and apps. It is no secret that Android and Samsung have been copying a lot of aspects of iOS and iPhones (hence the lawsuits). We are seeing people in the media, iPhone owners, and bloggers saying that Apple's UI and lack of customization, small screen, etc. are starting to become a negative when Android has big screens and plenty of customization. Even a lot of Apple people doubt that iOS will bring a lot of needed changes to the OS, but we'll find out this week. With Android people aren't tied into Android's ecosystem any where near as much as with Apple's because most of the apps are free, apps may not work from one device to the next, OS updates are very slow, etc.

Based on this I think there is a huge potential for BB10 to get customers that may be wanting a change. A more stable and customizable OS with a fluid UI. As has been mentioned by Kevin, iOS is five years old and Android was designed to copy iOS. Of course Windows Phone 7 has shown that a slick new OS doesn't translate into sales, but Windows Phone has never had any type of following that Blackberry has/once had either. We'll need to see what BB10 finally looks like and what the end user experience is, but it definitely has a chance to win over people that are using other platforms.

[Flexin]

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

There is no doubt that BB10 is going to be awesome. I am sure that between the TAT, QNX and Torch teams we are going to have an awesome OS. But here is my question, is it enough? Will current DROID or iOS customers ever consider BB just because we have achieved parity? Or, in order to survive, does RIM have to pull "an apple" and actually release something that is revolutionary?

I feel that the only thing Apple well was sell a good product for premium price. They also some how got the after market companies it focus on them.

As far a RIM taking customers from iOS and Android, they don't need to take them all. You will have some looking for something else because they might be upset with their current os. If some switch it will be huge. The main thing they need is to get enough users to switch now matter what os they are running. Even BlackBerry users. They need enough out there using them and raving about it. They need to make is sexy.

Most Apple and Android users are not going to jump ship too quick. To them BlackBerry is dead.

James

[jegs2]

IMO, it looks like Apple got others to buy into their system, thus the tons of apps available (kind of like (pre-Web OS) Palm before them). When I talk to folks about what they like about the iPhone, they generally say ease of use, stability of the device, and lots of apps.

If BB10 can pull that off, they might march boldly into the future. RIM has some catching up to do though.

[gorang]

Keep in mind guys that smart phone market is still fairly young. RIM doesn't necessarily have to get iOS and Android users to switch to BB10 because there is a lot of people that will go with BB10 as their first smart phone as well as there will be a lot of current BB users upgrading. Clearly the competition will be intense and RIM has to make sure that BB10 is really good so that there is a good vibe about it to ensure the sales.

[xandermac]

RIM has the right ideas and the correct strategy for the long term. Cheap devices and affordable plans to attract 1st time smartphone buyers. The cheap devices just need to be a little better, along the lines of a $50 android device. That's where bb10 and the new ecosystem could come into play. If RIM can survive this waiting game they should see a healthy future.

[tjseaman]

If RIM uses the word revolutionary for anything...I will leave Blackberry!!! I friggin' hate that word. Apple uses that word for every new product even if it isn't!!!

[stackberry369]

If RIM uses the word revolutionary for anything...I will leave Blackberry!!! I friggin' hate that word. Apple uses that word for every new product even if it isn't!!!

Well RIM did revolutionize the way you communicate.

[Tre Lawrence]

It ain't all about UI. At the end of the day, I think consumers considering changing will want to know one thing: can they be just as productive on BB10 as they were on their current platforms? Can they do the same things they could do on other platforms?

The answer to that will determine BB10's success.

[morganplus8]

If that BB 10 is freakin' HOT, they will out sell everyone, it's that simple. A great design and everyone will want to own it. The apps will be forthcoming.

[araskin]

I agree that RIMs biggest opportunity is taking some market share from Android. Right now I just don't see how they could do anything to Apple.

I also like Gorans suggestion that maybe RIM doesn't need to take market share from Android and Apple if they can find a way to capture people who are just moving into the smartphone arena. Though I guess to do that they would need to "pull an Apple".

[TgeekB]

I believe non-bb people will be cautious at first. RIM is considered taboo by a lot of people and Android and Apple dominate. It will take time for BBX to PROVE to people that it is worth jumping ship and leaving a device that people are happy with. It won't be easy and marketing will play a major role. Let's hope they can pull it off because it will good for consumers to have another major player in the smart phone market.

[otacon]

Apple is where it is today only because of great marketing. To put things into focus, iPhones are NOT that great compared to Android or BB. It's just that with their excellent marketing, they have made iPhone a fashion statement.

But all that is 7 years ago. Now we can see that more and more people are switching over to Android. This shows that at the end, it is something that works that will get people to switch over.

For BB10 to be successful, it needs to be SPOT ON in order to take on the iPhone and even the Samsung Galaxy series.

[jax5]

aren't rim going back to their roots and focussing on enterprise market? consumer/mass market is all about apps. that's where ios and android rule. take a look at microsoft who even with millions of dollars and a partnership with nokia are finding it difficult.

the other thing is both ios and android are now established platforms that will soon adopt any innovation arising from other platforms. take palm and webos for example - aspects of webos can now be seen on all platforms especially QNX/playbook os and forthcoming BB10.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2

[otacon]

BB10 may be good. It may even be great. But, it won't matter - it is already too late. RIM is dying a slow painful death and the BlackBerry "brand" has developed a very negative image that can't be overcome. The company is for sale and there are no buyers. Good as it may be, no one wants it because of the negative image. The new management has only made things worse with their hype that no one believes.

We are watching a train wreck in slow motion and can't do anything about it.

I assume you're not a BB fan / user? I agree that things look grim and bleak currently, but RIM has a hail-mary in the form of BB10. It's do-or-die time for them, but looking at the feedback on BB10, I do believe that this will be a hit and will save RIM.

[lnichols]

aren't rim going back to their roots and focussing on enterprise market? consumer/mass market is all about apps. that's where ios and android rule. take a look at microsoft who even with millions of dollars and a partnership with nokia are finding it difficult.

the other thing is both ios and android are now established platforms that will soon adopt any innovation arising from other platforms. take palm and webos for example - aspects of webos can now be seen on all platforms especially QNX/playbook os and forthcoming BB10.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2

Focusing on the Enterprise market now means winning over BYOD users, which means giving consumers something that they want to use for both work and personal. With BB10 they have the capability to have great apps and games, that run in users personal space on their device, and have an encrypted, partitioned work space for apps and communications that is separate and can be separately wiped from the device without affecting personal space. Android is a me too OS that copied iOS, and now has surpassed iOS in marketshare, all while not really gaining a huge loyal following IMHO because it is easy to leave free apps and BB10 will support Gmail and Calendar. If RIM delivers a device that surpasses both iOS and Android in features and the end user experience, while being able to provide frequent updates and feature enhancements, they have a great opportunity to poach away users from both platforms, but I think more from Android.

[Tre Lawrence]

Apple is where it is today only because of great marketing.

I respectfully disagree. I think it has to do less with marketing and more with creating the best product ecosystem in the game.

Don't forget that Apple isn't only good at making new customers, it is extremely proficient at keeping them, which is where they really hurt competitors.

I won't discount marketing, and I do believe that iOS products are considered hip by some people. Still, they make good products (mostly), and if other companies could do the same (make their products fashionable), they would... and should.

[LeenaNag]

BB10 may be good. It may even be great. But, it won't matter - it is already too late. RIM is dying a slow painful death and the BlackBerry "brand" has developed a very negative image that can't be overcome. The company is for sale and there are no buyers. Good as it may be, no one wants it because of the negative image. The new management has only made things worse with their hype that no one believes.

We are watching a train wreck in slow motion and can't do anything about it.

BB may not be selling like hot cakes but RIM has an incredible apple, which we know as BBM. RIM have reduced in market share but have been strong as compared to Nokia.
Blackberry users are loyal. They might switch to an Android device but BBM is something they cannot do without.

[glidewells]

I think that RIM has a golden opportunity especially when it comes to Android. Like it or not Android is very "fragmented", they have 1000's of different model phones on the market running multiple versions of there OS, which can be very confusing for the consumer. Android manufactures have shown they do not care for there customers by pushing phone after phone out the door and a lot of them reaching end of life within a years time. In my opinion Apple has it right in this area, push out a pretty good product once a year or so and support it for a couple of years. The customers know what they are getting and the can feel confident that there device will be supported at least through the end of there contract.

RIM needs to take this approach, push out product every 6 - 12 months and support it for at least two years. The worse thing they could do is storm the market with 12 different variants of there brand. I hope that they push out this new product and then a few months down the road push out another phone with keyboard and then support the out of them so that there customers are confident that they have a device that will be supported for the next couple of years.

[otacon]

Don't assume. I've been with BB since the beginning and upgraded to every new platform. BB in my pocket right now. But I travel a lot, in Turkey right now, and Skype 10 times a day all over the world on my Iphone or laptop. Watch movies in bed on my Playbook. Retired IBM. Former IT mgr. - now full-time investor. Lots of contacts high & low in RIM. WAS big BB/RIM fan - now realist.

My apologies, bro. Just assumed that with the grim remarks, it's like listening to an Apple fan criticizing BB... Again, apologies.

Well, let's all just keep our fingers crossed that BB10 indeed does rock!!

[amazinglygraceless]

There are several problems with your initial statement:

1) "we know BB10 will be awesome" - We know no such thing. We hope and anticipate it will be
but without an actual OS in the hands of the consumer, hope and anticipation is pretty much all we
have.

2) "we have achieved parity" - Parity with what. By all objective analysis RIM (BB10) will acheive a
kinda, sorta, somewhat parity with what exists now (and that is a stretch.) Problem with this
thinking is that both the iOS and Android OS has halted development. By the time RIM releases
BB10 they could conceivably STILL be behind.

3) "release something something revolutionary" - This does not look hopeful. This is not a knock
on RIM by any measure however an OS that plays catch up to iOS and Android and a full
touchscreen phone, that has been done to death by everyone is not anyones idea of revolutionary.

Now, that being said, I am still rooting for RIM. Do I think they will make it back to the top. No,
I really do not but they certainly have a heck of an opportunity to turn their ship around.

As a personal aside: It is very nice to see OTACON back in the CrackBerry family. Missed you
old friend Welcome back

[tjseaman]

Well RIM did revolutionize the way you communicate.

Not my point...but thanks for your 2 cents.

[sevoman]

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

There is no doubt that BB10 is going to be awesome. I am sure that between the TAT, QNX and Torch teams we are going to have an awesome OS. But here is my question, is it enough? Will current DROID or iOS customers ever consider BB just because we have achieved parity? Or, in order to survive, does RIM have to pull "an apple" and actually release something that is revolutionary?

I have used bb's since the get go....5790 until today. along the way, and very recently, i have tried all the other phones for 30 day stretches (ATT's money back return period). Some I have carried: Dell Venue Pro (Wp7 with slide-out keyboard), Galaxy s2, Palm Pixie, Captivate Glide (landscape slide out keyboard), I phone 4 then the 4s, Focus flash, Nokia lumia 900...). I always go back to blackberry for three reasons:

1- keyboard. nothing better. dont like the slidout junk, portrait or landscape.
2- battery life - nothing else to say
3- message handling - ALL other os's have a cumbersome message handling design


All the other phones were very nice. Beautiful screens, lots of space to read, good responsiveness, tons of apps, and all the basic features. However, as a tool, nothing beat my blackberry and I realized that at the end of the day, month, year, 99.9% of the time I was messaging or calling, nothing else. Not using navigation, not taking pictures, not editing video, not finding local restaurants, not setting up voice dictated self reminders....none of it, just 99.9% email/text/message/phone calls. blackberry is best.

Many people have switched from blackberry and I am sure many of them have also realized what they have done and how they have fallen for the 'app/camera hype'. I am also sure many of them would switch back if it wasn't for the fact that they got into a 2 year contract and were handed a "$650" phone for $150 bucks. So going back to the original question. Will people switch to blackberry once OS 10 comes out? Those who have never had a BlackBerry, will never switch to BlackBerry. Those who have switched from BB to another phone, maybe 30-40% will switch back on their next upgrade cycle...or at least consider BB. Unfortunately the remainder are most likely gone for good. So, by just releasing a cool new, streamlined, secure platform, RIM will not attract NEW customers and will only get back at the most less than half of those they lost. Because of contracts, this will be over the course of a few years, not instantly.

A few considereations:
Here I am not talking about 'developing markets', that is another animal and it seems RIM is concentrating efforts there as well.
Also, barring the true security must companies, most 'business' users can just be included with consumers as it's mostly BYOD these days. The same girl with the pink iphone cover is the one at the business meeting as well.

Ultimately I would say, yes, RIM needs something spectacular...as the OP said "to pull an Apple" to get ALL their customers back and to attract NEW ones. But what is that breakthrough? Screen? Apps? Keyboard? Battery life? All has been said and done.

[dbmalloy]

What many need to remember is the vast... vast majority of users are not tch savy.... what most only care about is:

How easy is the phone to use.... what it does may is important but most do not care about specs just how "easy" is the phone it use..... This is where Apple nailed it.. To me Apple IOS is has never done it... but I learned from my neighbours who purchased 3 Iphones for his family.... he knew nothing about smartphones... not tech savy but was up and running on the Iphone in less than a day.... What sold him was not what the phone could do but the fact the sales person told him it was "easy"..... and thats what he experienced...... This is what RIM needs to push.... it is easy to preach to the converted... to succeed it the uniformed you need to sway....