08-23-13 10:16 PM
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  1. cjw5's Avatar
    Yes, apps equal to other two platforms at launch would have made a huge difference then and would still make a huge difference. Can't be understated.

    Also better advertising.

    And releasing Q10 first, or at least simultaneously. Had BB10 and the Z10 arrived 2 or 3 years earlier, OK. But by the time of actual launch the thing to do, IMHO, was to target the users who prefer (or insist on) a physical keyboard.

    I really like my Z10, more and more the more I use it, but many BlackBerry users I know held out for (or are still holding through upgrade cycles) for the Q because they won't give up the keyboard. These are heavy business users. Many have an iPhone for personal use and know the physical keyboard is a major boon when it comes to getting work done.

    Posted via CB10
    Speedygi likes this.
    08-22-13 10:07 PM
  2. Linda9600's Avatar
    No. In hindsight, it's pretty clear that the problem is that they are too late to the race. Add to that the fact that they have a bad reputation, at least in the USA, which is where I am. No one wants to be outdated, regardless of how much slick the Z10 and Q10 are.

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-13 10:10 PM
  3. TheMarco's Avatar
    I think we're approaching a 'game over' situation for BlackBerry. The apps aren't there, the crap situation with slow OS updates through ****ty slow carrier rollout, the hardware being only 'on par' at best with iPhone / Android (minus the battery life, my iPhone lasts at least twice as long as my Z10), not enough / good enough marketing and ongoing stock market turmoil. It looks like it's just not going to happen.

    Sad, but I think it's time to face the facts.

    And this is coming from the man who made the ultimate BlackBerry fanboy video...
    08-22-13 10:15 PM
  4. h20work's Avatar
    Apps are just one component. They need to bring their "A" Game to every facet of the organization.
    I wish they did. The staggered "global" launch was a disaster. The excuses around here were absurd, "they are launching in markets that were loyal to them". Yes the skipped the us at the beginning, but they also skipped Indonesia and India. They didn't launch their new device in 2 of their key markets, why??? They also didn't launch in south Africa, Nigeria, uae, or trinidad, all strong markets.

    Instead they did a half a$$ed launch in the UK and then Canada after.
    amazinglygraceless and JeepBB like this.
    08-22-13 10:16 PM
  5. CHIP72's Avatar
    I wish they did. The staggered "global" launch was a disaster. The excuses around here were absurd, "they are launching in markets that were loyal to them". Yes the skipped the us at the beginning, but they also skipped Indonesia and India. They didn't launch their new device in 2 of their key markets, why??? They also didn't launch in south Africa, Nigeria, uae, or trinidad, all strong markets.

    Instead they did a half a$$ed launch in the UK and then Canada after.
    The thing that still amazes me is that Blackberry paid $4 million for a mediocre Super Bowl commercial and then didn't release any BB10 devices in the U.S. for over a month after the Super Bowl. That was just an inane "strategy".
    h20work and JeepBB like this.
    08-22-13 10:19 PM
  6. CrackFachry's Avatar
    Blackberry still has a great Brand Image here in Indonesia. But it is quickly diminishing..
    BB marketing is also great here. Probably the biggest marketing in smartphone. Followed by Samsung and those cheap Chinese/Local phones.

    Yes, I've seen many people using Z10 and Q10s, especially in big cities, but most of us are still using Legacy devices. And from my experience many of the legacy device owners don't want to upgrade to BB10 due to two big factors: 1. Price and 2. Apps.

    So to answer the OP.. my question would be: YES. Having all the important apps will help Blackberry, especially here where it still has (quite) a good brand image and strong marketing. But pricing is also a very important factor especially when it comes to emerging markets.
    mujahid 10 and Speedygi like this.
    08-22-13 10:30 PM
  7. howarmat's Avatar
    Blackberry still has a great Brand Image here in Indonesia. But it is quickly diminishing..
    BB marketing is also great here. Probably the biggest marketing in smartphone. Followed by Samsung and those cheap Chinese/Local phones.

    Yes, I've seen many people using Z10 and Q10s, especially in big cities, but most of us are still using Legacy devices. And from my experience many of the legacy device owners don't want to upgrade to BB10 due to two big factors: 1. Price and 2. Apps.

    So to answer the OP.. my question would be: YES. Having all the important apps will help Blackberry, especially here where it still has (quite) a good brand image and strong marketing. But pricing is also a very important factor especially when it comes to emerging markets.
    BIS plays a huge role too i bet with those legacy users
    08-22-13 10:52 PM
  8. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    No one has brought this up in this thread yet. 600 USD for a 4.2" Snapdragon S4 device even with full Google Play compatibility is still a steep price. I don't think the Z10 would have ever garnered the attention it needs without a fair price.
    Speedygi likes this.
    08-22-13 10:55 PM
  9. CrackFachry's Avatar
    BIS plays a huge role too i bet with those legacy users
    Agreed. But we also have great (cheap) regular prepaid data plan here, as low as $2.5 per month (maybe even cheaper).
    That's why Android is very popular here (along with the cheap phones). Beating Blackberry as the no.1 OS for the last 3 quarters.
    08-22-13 11:19 PM
  10. Speedygi's Avatar
    I think there's also the complexity factor. Blackberry is known as a corporate handset maker, and they are, but that comes with its fair share of complexities maybe the average user like my mum would find intimidating. It's not helping things that there are little editorials or adverts qualming those concerns too.

    Apple sells phone based on userfriendliness and Blackberry should follow suit.

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-13 11:27 PM
  11. scribacco's Avatar
    Yes, apps equal to other two platforms at launch would have made a huge difference then and would still make a huge difference. Can't be understated.

    Also better advertising.

    And releasing Q10 first, or at least simultaneously. Had BB10 and the Z10 arrived 2 or 3 years earlier, OK. But by the time of actual launch the thing to do, IMHO, was to target the users who prefer (or insist on) a physical keyboard.

    I really like my Z10, more and more the more I use it, but many BlackBerry users I know held out for (or are still holding through upgrade cycles) for the Q because they won't give up the keyboard. These are heavy business users. Many have an iPhone for personal use and know the physical keyboard is a major boon when it comes to getting work done.

    Posted via CB10
    Maybe it would have attracted most first time users but for past Blackberry users would not have mattered. The reputation of Blackberry is what keeping most away in my opinion. The biggest mistake they made was to release an unfinished product. Some past Blackberry users did give BB10 a try but after few days, most experienced bugs like the old days and simply did not want to deal with the "we fix it later mentality" anymore. Users are fed up with that practice that seems to never die at Blackberry.
    Speedygi likes this.
    08-23-13 12:20 AM
  12. treaker's Avatar
    Ok,lets say apps people want. No one needs any app.

    But yes, I truly believe that if the big apps were in BlackBerry World, they would be much further ahead.

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-13 12:46 AM
  13. pooger's Avatar
    If the apps were there I could have sold it to everyone I know like crazy. Right now I don't tell anyone about it because I know they know it's deficient for their needs.

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-13 01:01 AM
  14. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    Apps ecosystem to me is like a huge shopping mall. I may not need all those stores but it's comforting to know they're there in case my needs change. New stores also open to replace the ones that sell out of fashion products. Compare this to the corner store where I get the odd milk or two. Will go there but won't spend lot of time to shop. In and quickly out. IPhone and Android are Walmart, BlackBerry unfortunately right now is the corner store. Aside from Apps, accessories also make these two platforms more generally appealing.
    08-23-13 01:53 AM
  15. jpvj's Avatar
    They'd definitely have done better, but BB has MANY problems, and apps alone wouldn't have solved all of them. Yes, I think apps are the single biggest problem, but there are still others that would have put a big hurt on BB:

    - Unintuitive OS (unintuitive means that the average person can't pick up the device and instantly know how to use it, because the operation of it isn't immediately obvious. iOS, for example, is often derided as "overly simple", but there's no question that anyone can pick it up and know how to use it with virtually no instruction). This means that customers who go into a cell phone store to give the phone a 1-2 minute try-out are all too often confused, and so they choose something else. Even legacy BB users have resisted BB10, largely for this reason.

    - Brand reputation is heavily damaged. To fix this, you must execute every aspect of a new product flawlessly AND have effective advertising that acknowledges the past while showing the great improvements of the present. BB not only had execution failures in multiple areas, they also had lousy advertising and never addressed the reputation of the brand, or even made it clear that BB10 was a completely fresh start. People outside of the BB bubble have NO IDEA that BB10 is any different than BB7 (or 6, or 5).

    - Carrier relationships are clearly strained, and carrier support in most markets is poor at best. Beyond the fact that the phones are actually present in the stores, most carriers provide zero in-store support for the brand.

    - Serious bugs in the OS upon release. The random reboot issues were absolutely inexcusable, and schedule or not, the devices should not have been shipped until that issue was resolved. It's one thing to lack features, and something else entirely to break basic functionality. The fact that OS updates were delayed, in some cases greatly, only compounded the problem.

    - Lack of money. For all the talk of "$3B in the bank", the truth is that BB simply didn't have the money to spend to get enough sales reps into stores to train reps, to buy counterspace, to build static displays, to have working, functioning devices, and to support the brand. One store visit from launch until today is no where near enough; Apple and Samsung have reps in nearly every store at least once a month.

    - No tablets. Today, customers expect to be able to purchase media, apps, and services, and use them on both their phone and their tablet. BB doesn't have a tablet option, and worse, essentially told the world that they thought tablets had no future, and thus there wouldn't ever be BB tablets.

    - No cloud or significant cross-platform services. Of course, this has never been BB's strong suit, but nevertheless, customers expect a strong cloud platform, with desktop PC access. BB Link is a woefully inadequate substitute.

    - I'll mention advertising once again. The ads were completely out of touch with the users. It was as if BB was advertising to Crackberry readers (i.e., knowledgeable fanboys) rather than to the general public who needed to be WON back over to BB and also shown exactly what was new. The advertising has been a failure of epic proportions.

    The truth is, in order to really succeed, BB would have needed to have solved ALL of these problems, or at least have made significant progress on them, but for most of these issues, they either made little or no effort, or colossally inept mistakes, which only re-confirmed for most users the reputation BB had previously earned: out of touch and far behind.
    I more or less agree 100% with. The reboot issue was annoying but was IMHO a minor issue.
    Perception, Carrier support, markering and Apps are the top issues to be fixed.

    A tablet should arrive at some point so the BB10 apps can be used on a larger screen. I still wonder if BB ever will bring a tablet to the market again. If they do I think I will have something to show about the "mobile computing platform" / QNX / distributed computing... But that's not going to happen in the nearby future.
    08-23-13 04:40 AM
  16. hf199's Avatar
    We wouldn't be in this position. Once you offer the same apps as Android and Apple then it's toe to toe on the phone functionality. BB10 would win hands down due to the built in fan base unlike WP who is building its base everyday
    08-23-13 08:21 AM
  17. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    We wouldn't be in this position. Once you offer the same apps as Android and Apple then it's toe to toe on the phone functionality. BB10 would win hands down due to the built in fan base unlike WP who is building its base everyday
    Someone needs to explain this magical built in fan base of BlackBerry and do so without talking about the users here, which is a very small percentage of users or the 70 million or so subscribers which can be broken down as (a) true fans, (b) those who are ambivalent and (c) those who feel they are saddled with a BlackBerry and are biding their time until their contract expires or their company completely abandons the platform.

    On balance I do not think the committed fan base of BlackBerry is any greater than any other platform and is irrelevant even if it was. You don't grow market share by preaching to the converted. You go after those not already in your camp AND you have to have a product(s) to do that with. BlackBerry is simply not there and all the apps in the world won't change that much.
    app_Developer likes this.
    08-23-13 08:33 AM
  18. David Murray1's Avatar
    It never will have all the 'important' apps lol. Dumb consumers will never buy anything other than an Apple or Samsung. And they will feel themselves, without the slightest doubt or any trace of feeling of absurdity, that what they have chosen is infallibly superior to those who are different.
    08-23-13 01:46 PM
  19. angieberry10's Avatar
    I know I could've generated at least 5 sales from just showing the time shift off. But the time shift wasn't enough to fill the void of the apps

    Z10
    08-23-13 01:53 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    It is more about the rivalry between BlackBerry and Apple, between american and Canadian.
    I think if you took a poll of Americans maybe 1 out of 5 would even know that Blackberry is a Canadian company.

    Big country, little country rivalries always matter more to the smaller country. It's just like big brother/little brother rivalries. This happens all over the world. Most Americans don't know Blackberry is Canadian, and those who do really don't care.

    Blackberry's current state has nothing to do with the country in which it's based. If anything, patriotic Canadians have helped keep BBRY alive longer by staying relatively loyal for a very long time in hopes of propping up the "crown jewel". But buyers in other countries just think of it as a company like any other.
    08-23-13 02:17 PM
  21. jdcfinisher's Avatar
    All the tops apps, 10.2 os and MARKETING! With the U.S. launch same as Canada. Would have done several times more in sales and would have kept going up .

    Posted via Z10
    08-23-13 02:22 PM
  22. soren203's Avatar
    In 2009, if they had brought out bb10 with good marketing and top apps no doubt in my mind bb would still be in 2nd or 3rd place, however bringing out bb10 in 2013 with little marketing, tonnes of missing apps....looks like thanksgiving came early cause BB's goose is cooked.
    08-23-13 03:59 PM
  23. dtarin's Avatar
    BlackBerry would still be in a distant 3rd but we would have seen better adoption rates and less people being scared away because famous brand X's app want on it. Likewise BlackBerry would have had less of a perception issue.

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-13 04:09 PM
  24. Speedygi's Avatar
    It never will have all the 'important' apps lol. Dumb consumers will never buy anything other than an Apple or Samsung. And they will feel themselves, without the slightest doubt or any trace of feeling of absurdity, that what they have chosen is infallibly superior to those who are different.
    I think as you said, and many others, Blackberry just doesn't have the mass market pull anymore. Many people who loved Blackberry in Enterprise were subjected to BYOD (Bring Your own Device) policies, and they have moved on. Apple and The other big players have got their attention and its near to unlikely they will come back. Even the BBOS devotees on the extreme end aren't budging. So you have neither extremes wanting to come to BB10. Maybe a few here and there will come to BB10, but if Blackberry is expecting the masses to flock to the platform, it's painfully unrealistic.



    Posted via CB10
    08-23-13 10:06 PM
  25. rottonj's Avatar
    If the apps were there the phones would have sold much better. Remember the promises, "they will be there by the time you can buy the phone". False promises sold some phones, but I think most waited and moved on or are still waiting. Marketing is another whole issue, you have to spend money to make money. If they gave people what they were looking for they would be in better shape.
    08-23-13 10:16 PM
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